How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran

[rararanran]

if something is not mention is the list of haram, doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it...(in general)
like speaking a lie?
can save a life or speaking a truth can take a life too.. but as i told earlier i dnt want to go offtopic... (about haram)

its totally morality and immorality always like

dark and light
haram(disallowed/prohibted) and halal(allowed/not prohibted)
neg and positive
good and evil
moral and immoral
right and wrong
true and false like 1+1 = 2 true... =3 false...

BOLD part yeh i dnt know who you are?
but thats not important ...

about anal sex and blowjobs its depends on the moral value of individual i cant comment on it..
but every body really knows the difference between neat and clean , and hygience stuff...
some people are neat and clean while other appeared to take less care about it...

but God like people are who clean (somewhere mention in scripture too)

making anal sex allowed is a big claim without any evidence from quran in hand...

and now you are like a hadist people haraming thing which is not told in quran
who said anal is haram you or god?
even tough i dont like anal and even my self considered it as immoral,
its not prohibited in quran, so dont say if its a haram thing okay

even prophet are not allowed to say haram to something which is not in quran

and who said lying is not haram? the punishment is to not believe those person again
until he ask the other party forgiveness, and test them if he/she is not lie anymore

lying even cause death is a lie, what the difference?? u make it complicated

because moral and immorality is relative but quran is not
everything is already there in detail

[Rana_Hafiz]

This is the severe drawback in the existing translations of the Quran. Unfortunately the whole Quran has been translated without reasoning and even without looking at the words of the Quran. This is correct that Iranian culture and our upbringing has changed the understanding of the Quran and we take each and every statement of the Quran according to our beliefs which could be wrong. The truth should come out whether it matches with our personal belief or not. I appreciate those thoughtful people who do their best to bring out the truth without looking back.

[imrankhawaja]

and now you are like a hadist people haraming thing which is not told in quran
who said anal is haram you or god?

read my all posts again and tell me a single thing i claim its haram...

i did not claim its haram .

you claim its allowed , burden of proof is on you.. either you bring a reference for your claim it would be sufficent...

i said i consider it as an immoral act and God dnt like immorality...

even tough i dont like anal and even my self considered it as immoral,
its not prohibited in quran, so dont say if its a haram thing okay

well its good you know the dfference between immoral and moral
thats what we are actually discussing....

lying even cause death is a lie, what the difference?? u make it complicated

its not complicated i actually told you the moral values of speaking lie and truth according to a situation

example telling a truth to kid about his drawing is horrible is not a moral thing
a person is running for his life.. and hide in your house ,,, and if you speak lie , its a moral thing... u saved a life..

[rararanran]

if something is not mention is the list of haram, doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it...(in general)

?? confusing if it doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it then, it means not allowed right?

read my all posts again and tell me a single thing i claim its haram...

i did not claim its haram .

you claim its allowed , burden of proof is on you.. either you bring a reference for your claim it would be sufficent...

i said i consider it as an immoral act and God dnt like immorality...

its you who should refrence out if god dnt like immorality and anal is not allowed thing,

my base is
16116

and, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, (saying) this is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a lie against allah; surely those who forge the lie against allah shall not prosper

587

o you who believe! do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely allah does not love those who exceed the limits (sex outside marriage)

2223

Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. give the glad news to the believers.

as long your supose agreed and have no problem with that, and do not foce her

and alot of hadist forbid anal intercourse with ur supose, like this one

It was narrated that Ibn ?Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said ?Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.? Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-?Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

i dont like any sex, im abstaining from it, but it is what it is, anal sex is allowed with your supose

[rararanran]

lying to save life, lie is a lie
but only god who will judge

and haram means its got a direct impact to any other human,
and if the person u lie to know that u are lying, he will not trust u anymore
and u will ask forgiveness, so they will trust u again
and they will surely test u if will not lie anymore, thats what haram mean

and if u lie to save life then is it a lie or a saving life,
i say its saving life with doing haram thing which is lying,

will you get sin from god or enter hell, or will u got pahala n enter heaven, its only god who judge
but with those human u will surely take those haram punishment in human realm by other human

but my self i dont care if a bad guy who want to hurt other person eill not trust me anymore,
and im saving other people life,
i will lie if im faced with that circumstence, but the lie is still lie and it is haram

[rararanran]

back to the title

if someone said a sex outside marriage is not haram (degenerating you and no god and human punishment?)

then ask them,
1.so is it okay to have an un transgressed incest sex with your sister/brother or your parents
because we are not married to them.

2.is it okay to have multi sex (threesome etc)

3.if the one woman get pregnant after doing threesome, how you detrrmind the father of that child,
because in the future this child of threesome sex might meet a girl or boy which is his/her own brother and they might get married as an inchest

4.is it okay to have incest marriage

and in biology inchest will bring a degenerated genetic of human

my belief is,

1. marriage is an oath to make sex legal between two party man and woman
   2.and an oath must have a witness, minimum is four
   3.a marriage oath cannot be done in secreet
   4.having boy friend n girl friend n flirting is permissable IF they have a plan to get married at first, and they cannot transgress
   5.its not talking about slave but talking to have sex with your right hand (masturbation)
   6.and masturbating other person outside marriage got half punishment
   7.covering your reproduction, ask animal why they didnt cover it

"be higer human, dont downgrade ur self as an animal
the distinction of human and animal is on their brain thinking mind
dnot only follow your desire of animal part without brain,
by doing sex outside marriage, polygamy, incest
if u have mind but acting like animal, you are defenerating ur self lower than animal"

may god bless us and make us into higer being to the higer heaven nirvana

one more, god tell us an oath of transaction and deal must be written

human is an animal being with higer way of thingking by using their brain, the more you get lose from this animal body the better, thats why higer intellectual people prefer abstain from sex,

and people with higer knowledge got more higer degree in god sight

polygamy, drunk, gamble, not covering ur body part especialy your jewelry n your genitals
is not prohibited
but those things will degenerated you as human, even prophet want to avoid it

sex outside marriage is haram and transgressing the gods law
100 lashes in public, humiliation only (make adulters ashamed)

masturbating other person outside marriage is haram and transgressing gods law
50 lashes in public, humiliation only (making the blowjobers/handjobers ashamed)

thats the punishment in human realm,
but at the after life its god who judge, and maybe god will still put you in heaven
and give you pahala, or not its god who judge at the after life

only god know and know more then ur self know inside ur heart
may god bless us all

[imrankhawaja]

its you who should refrence out if god dnt like immorality and anal is not allowed thing,

728 And if they commit immorality, they say "We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it." Say "God does not order immorality! Do you say about God what you do not know?"

my base is
16116

and, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, (saying) this is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a lie against allah; surely those who forge the lie against allah shall not prosper

exactly , saying something lawful without knowledge is a lie against God..

587

o you who believe! do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely allah does not love those who exceed the limits (sex outside marriage)

so you are thinking anal sex is good thing thats y its lawful...

you better read the side effects of anal sex before you declare something good...

2223

Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. give the glad news to the believers.

what do you mean by fields ...
is the field is from where you get your seed develop..?

if you mean by position then its understandable , but if you are changing holes like oral or anal then i would like you to advice one thing read and then understand carefully take your time... and you based your claims due to poor understanding of verses..

try to understand what field is and what space is...

[imrankhawaja]

anyways , coming back to the topic. i wonder people did not study quran how it should be study ..

now see if i just go one verse back before any wishful thinking of anal sex what i found in 223 i find it illogical ... in other words for intelligent person its like 2+2 = 4

2222 And they ask you about the menstruations? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruations, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.

first of all what a verse number.. triple 2 , a gun lol

ok anyway... i want my brothers to focus on this and understand what is the actual message...

if somebody still claim anal sex during menstruations or in normal days, is not forbidden its mean they are clearly on wrong path..

focus on the "colors" message is in great detail...

but if something already happened due to ignorance then God is always forgiving and merciful.....

God bless you all

[rararanran]

i think its up to the intelligence of other person ..

dnt worry you will get use to it slowly slowly...

and yeh i do spelling mistakes more than normal , but in exams i was worried about it due to the marking .
here i m not worried i can understand , if i do spell mistakes it wont effect the message...

but i m impressed from your intelligence with in two three days you are able to judge everybody and you are intelligent enough to write a long post to admins regarding their fault... bravo i m impressed by your intelligence and judging skills...

what i dnt understand is , you are not intelligent enough to understand my easy posts... you can always ask me if you confuse about anything

peace

[rararanran]

i think its up to the intelligence of other person ..

but i m impressed from your intelligence with in two three days you are able to judge everybody and you are intelligent enough to write a long post to admins regarding their fault... bravo i m impressed by your intelligence and judging skills...

"you are intelligent enough to write a long post to admins regarding their fault..."
admins? is he god? whats wrong with the long post?

227
Whenever they commit a shameful deed, they say "We found our forefathers doing this and Allah Himself has commanded us to do so." Tell them "Nay! Allah never commands what is shameful. Do you attribute to Allah something about which you have no knowledge?"

hmm immorality n shameful deed,
so what do u think in those verse the standard deed of immorality or a shamful deeds by god,
is anal sex n blowjob to ur supose considered as shameful or immoral deed in the sight of god?

but the point in those verse is

"Nay! Allah never commands what is shameful
i did not say that god command you to do anal sex or oral sex??

Do you attribute to Allah something about which you have no knowledge?
"and who said god forbid you from anal sex or oral sex??"

if god didnt command it doesent mean god forbid it

then dont say if its forbiden, and dont say that god command it
read about effect of anal sex? thus will it make it haram?
even god didnt haraming gamble n drunk, only say the bad side effect not haraming it.

i say its allowed,
allowed mean you could stay away from it or doing it, like gamble, beer, polygamy, divorce, etc its allowed, because its not prohibited haram or commanded/obligation

field? then tell me about ur understanding of entering those "field"
or ur understanding of any translation u belief about that verse

for me field is field, if its not ur field you cant enter it, if its yours then enter your field, but if the soil of your field is hard, then put a water first to that soil or with other technique, dont force it, it will break ur farming tools and the soil it self,

wait which hole? "Reserve something good for your souls"
its not only about the sex position, but also the hole which both partner prefer
if ur woman or field does not allowing you to do the anal hole or oral hole or ear hole or nose hole sex then dont force it, its about the limit, forcing ur wife is beyond limit, n doing swinger or threesome with ur wife is beyond limit (outside marriage sex)

let me guess in ur understanding, u belief that u only allowed to get inside that field only trough that v hole in any sex position, am i right?
btw thank u for the advice

[imrankhawaja]

ok we make long story short ... re-read my posts 3 or four times it may help... becoz sometimes more you read more you understand...

apart from that i may help you what field is,

you put a seed in field and it gives you output...
same when you use the right field(sex) you will get your output(kid)..

abstaining from sex during periods clearly describe the meanings of fields ...

it appears to me you are contradicting your own statements when u said you consider it as immoral... look what immorality is (fahish) acts.. indecent acts.... , filthy acts...

so not only in sex ... if you try to drink from your nose it will consider as indecent act... by the way you can also take water inside your stomach through nose... but its harmful...

do you want that God teach you not to drink with nose..?
if you are not getting these very simple things then its mean you are insulting your intelligence ...

[rararanran]

ok we make long story short ... re-read my posts 3 or four times it may help... becoz sometimes more you read more you understand...

apart from that i may help you what field is,

you put a seed in field and it gives you output...
same when you use the right field(sex) you will get your output(kid)..

abstaining from sex during periods clearly describe the meanings of fields ...

it appears to me you are contradicting your own statements when u said you consider it as immoral... look what immorality is (fahish) acts.. indecent acts.... , filthy acts...

so not only in sex ... if you try to drink from your nose it will consider as indecent act... by the way you can also take water inside your stomach through nose... but its harmful...

do you want that God teach you not to drink with nose..?
if you are not getting these very simple things then its mean you are insulting your intelligence ...

Whenever they commit a shameful deed, they say "We found our forefathers doing this and Allah Himself has commanded us to do so." Tell them "Nay! Allah never commands what is shameful. Do you attribute to Allah something about which you have no knowledge?"

let me ask you, is marrying an orphan girl u adopted since her childhood considered as immoral or shameful??

my self will say its an immoral and shameful things to do, how can a man who take care a girl since her child hood get married to her when she grown up and have sex with ur own adopted child??
but its not prohibited, even god give clarification and procedure to do it

even my self consider it as taboo, shameful, and immoral to marry your own adopted son or daughter
but god give an okay to do that, so i will not say it as haram

what that verse talk about is the worst secenario, when a person done shameful immoral deeds and attributed that as a command from god or his prophet, just because their father consider it as a good deed, exmaple stoning an adulter to death

the haram thing this verse talk about is, when u attributed any deeds shameful immoral or even good or kind deeds but not really ordered by god, but you called it and attributed it as a command from god,
thats my brother which is haram this verse talk about

Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. give the glad news to the believers.

theres nothing talk about the seeds, but from this verse if u take as a seed then it mean the seed which will produce for us a "Reserve something good for your souls" this is what we want to accomplish or get from entering the field.

an advice reread another translation about 2222

[huruf]

my self will say its an immoral and shameful things to do, how can a man who take care a girl since her child hood get married to her when she grown up and have sex with ur own adopted child??
but its not prohibited, even god give clarification and procedure to do it

Please cite that aya qhere the qur'an says such a thing.

Salaam

[rararanran]

Please cite that aya qhere the qur'an says such a thing.

Salaam

Please cite that aya qhere the qur'an says such a thing.

Salaam

34
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline .

334
Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. And He has not made your wives whom you declare unlawful your mothers. And he has not made your adopted sons your sons. That is your saying by your mouths, but Allah says the truth, and He guides to the way.

even marrying your adopted son or daughter (which god consider our adopted son or daughter not as our children, but just as a friend in our care) is allowed, but like polygamy, divorce, beer, gamble,
its not haram by god, but it will degrade your degree as human.

its not haram but i will abstain from all of those deeds to escalate my degree as human in god's sight

[huruf]

None of the two ayas you mention authorize what you say.

4.3 tells people to arrange for the marriage of those willing to the mothers of the orphans, no to the orphans

33.4 where in this aya do you see any talk of marriage to adopted son or to anything else. It is nto talking about marriage.

If anybody goes around reading things that are ot there, o wonder that anything is obligatory or prohibited or allowed at will, you just have to say that it says what it does not say and there you go.

I am a bit dumbfounded

Salaam

[rararanran]

None of the two ayas you mention authorize what you say.

4.3 tells people to arrange for the marriage of those willing to the mothers of the orphans, no to the orphans

33.4 where in this aya do you see any talk of marriage to adopted son or to anything else. It is nto talking about marriage.

If anybody goes around reading things that are ot there, o wonder that anything is obligatory or prohibited or allowed at will, you just have to say that it says what it does not say and there you go.

I am a bit dumbfounded

Salaam

43 nothing there talk about anybody mother, u make things up

334 this ayat says about marry mother of the orphan,
but if u didnt marry their mother and u only adopted them, they are not considered as a son or daughter of you,

then my self asking, wait.. so my adopted son is not considered by god as my son or daughter if i didnt marry their mother?
wait a second.. then who will he/she be to me?

335
Call them by their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah . But if you do not know their fathers - then they are your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

they are considered as "brother and sister in religion" like you n ur wife are brother n sister in religion but not sibling.

it says what it does not say??
so what do u think about marrying ur adopted son or daughter, is that allowed or not?

[Timotheus]

Peace,

The Quran clearly states those prohibited in marriage, and clearly states those permitted.

[huruf]

43 nothing there talk about anybody mother, u make things up

334 this ayat says about marry mother of the orphan,
but if u didnt marry their mother and u only adopted them, they are not considered as a son or daughter of you,

then my self asking, wait.. so my adopted son is not considered by god as my son or daughter if i didnt marry their mother?
wait a second.. then who will he/she be to me?

335
Call them by their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah . But if you do not know their fathers - then they are your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

they are considered as "brother and sister in religion" like you n ur wife are brother n sister in religion but not sibling.

it says what it does not say??
so what do u think about marrying ur adopted son or daughter, is that allowed or not?

4Now the other ayas you ention .3 speaks of marrying the nisaa'. Nisaa' are women, grown up women, not children.
and in 4.127 the yatamaa annisaa' are clearly mentionned. Where did you ever get the idea that it is children and not women those who are recommended to marry?

Now the other ayas you mention do not say a word about marriage, something is said about repudiation which the Qur'an disapproves, but about marriage they do not say anything at all.

If you are able to find inthem something about marriage, then you do not need to read the Qur'an at all, just make it up all of it. No need to quote or anything.

Salaam

[simonejamilla]

I have to agree with "Simple", this whole thread is ridiculous and does nothing but make a mockery of sacred scripture. The entire premise of the "argument" is that "ma malakat aymanukum" in 236 denotes a different category of persons other than spouses. As "Simple" pointed out on page 2, and has subsequently been ignored, the use of the conjunction "aw" does not necessarily correspond to the english word "or". It can, and is, used as an amplifying conjunction, especially following a negation, see Lane's Book 1 Page 122. Alternatively, Muhammad Asad translates "aw" at 236 as a clarifier " with any but their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess ". Thus we see that this so called argument has nothing left to stand on. The other verses mentioned, such as 424-25 and 2433 are frankly irrelevant to the discussion, since the argument is that sex outside of marriage is permissible. In fact 2433 just blows the entire argument out of the water for the relevant word there is Ghayn-Nun-Ya, which means to be content, satisfied, to be free of need, see Lane's Book 1 page 2302. Are we to be "satisfied/content" with casual sex? Or, what are we to stand in no need of? It's totally absurd! Those who cannot marry should content themselves with staying chaste, or be free from the want of sexual desires...until a such a time as God enriches them from his bounty.

All this is really child's play though, because the whole argument goes so obviously and clearly against the spirit and tenor of scripture that the level of dishonesty required to put it forward is astonishing. Remember, this is not just about sex between a man and a woman who are betrothed, but rather what's openly being promoted is causual sex with a "girlfriend" or "boyfriend", of which the logical conclusion was drawn at the end of the opening post in the thread One night stands. It makes perfect "sense", since you can have sex with your girlfriend because you are somehow bonded with her by some "oath" that has never actually been declared or contracted; why not have sex after a couple of hours at the club together? I mean we don't actually have to take an oath to make the bond, it's somehow magically implied. No, to anyone who is honest "those who our right hands/oaths possess" ARE our spouses because, obviously, these are the ones with whom we have taken vows and thus bonded ourselves, not to mention the giving of a dowry.

This whole line of argumentation is an insult to those who actually believe in the Most Holy and True God, and the final judgment. It should be pretty clear from the opening post that this person does not submit to our Lord and Creator, as he constantly emphasizes that "he" does not see anything wrong, or what matters is what "our" hearts and reason tell us and that this is sufficient to "justify" us. NO, what matters is what our Lord tells us, not what we think should be wrong or right. Thus he rejects a divinely revealed truth.

As a side note, it is no suprise that the pro abortion kafirs all came on board. In 1731 Our Lord specifically uses waw-lam-dal which denotes more than simply a child out of the womb, rather it specifies that which is begotten, generated, fathered...which is why it is used to refute Christian claims about Jesus in 1935. Afterall, Christians don't believe Jesus was God only after he was born, as the nicene creed states he was "begotten, not made" by the Father "before all the worlds". so, this is the mechanism by which Trinitarians are able to say that the Son (Jesus) is of the same substance as the Father. This is what our Lord refutes, and in a brilliantly subtle fashion by using "waladin", indicating that 1) God did not take a spouse, therefore does not "beget" and thus the Son cannot be of the same "substance" as the Father and 2) Demonstrates that Waw-Lam_Dal is not simply used to describe a child out of the womb.

! yay bravo I was actually going to wait until I had read all 164,0000 pages before commenting. Thank God I only had to get as far as page 19. Geez! at one point I thought my head was going to drop off, roll around the floor, and burst into flames! brickwall

I completely agree with you Hoppean and Simple. The word / malakat, usually translated as possess in 2366 refers to entitlement through an oath or contract. It's more like a type of situation, rather than a type of person. If you look at the occurrences of this phrase, the meaning; rightfully entitled, reads well, whether my Lord is speaking of a slave, servant, orphan or Mrs.

http//dictionary.reverso.net/arabic-english/%D9%85%D9%8E%D9%84%D9%8E%D9%83%D9%8E%D8%AA%D9%92

236 "Except with any but their spouses - OF ALL you are rightfully entitled..." (in other words your Mesdames)

I used conjunctions of and all because men are allowed up to 4 wives. sun

[Ex-"Quranist"]

423 Forbidden for you are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your fathers' sisters, your mothers' sisters, the daughters of your brother, and the daughters of your sister, your foster mothers who suckled you, your sisters from suckling, the mothers of your wives, and your step-daughters residing in your homes from your wives which you have already consummated the marriage with; if you have not consummated the marriage then there is no sin upon you; and the wives of your sons that are from your seed, and that you join between two sisters except what has already been done. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

424 And "al muhsanati" except "ma malakat aymanakum." This is God's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are those whom you seek with your wealth muhsinina, not musafihina. Then as to those whom you benefitted from, give them their ujuruhunna as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely God is Knowing, Wise.

Ergo; MMA is/can be part of "al muhsanati" and we cannot marry (and have sex?) with al muhsanti if they arent MMA. The question is - what exactly do both of those terms entail? Seems like "al muhsanati" cannot do zina as per verse 2423. So muhsanti are chaste except the MMA? What about those who are wives, which is a different category than MMA? Can al muhsanati be wives isntead of being MMA - what are the details? Let's reignite this conerversation and topic!