nature of nature

imrankhawaja

brother jaffar , if you help me giving your thoughts in the unfair deals of this world ... it would b helpful i read lot of articles and work of traditional /non traditional , beleivers non beleivers concepts about the pain of life... but did not get any satisfactory answer yet...

apart from the concept of reincarnation...

as i beleive you also beleive in one higher being .. what usally people call God almighty..

what do you think a person born with disabilities , poor, hunger , ugliness and all other stuff ...

there is a loop hole in understanding the concept of reincarnation too , becoz in oone life one is sinner and in one life he is righteous which case God will refer .. while sentencing or rewarding...

apart from the theory of reincarnation .. what do you think why there is unfairness in this world... a true God cant b unjustice , illogical .. there must b something nobody cracked it yet...

what do you think about the pain of life... why it occurs

Man_of_Faith

There is no loophole. If you are terrible in a lifetime and die in that condition, you will be recycled into an inferior condition, so what goes around comes around. Your purpose is to get out of the reincarnation cycles, so only by getting out you are truly successful. Even if you were horrible in another life that does not prevent you from escaping the next if you get in a better state of mind and develop all that which you missed in your previous life plus recovered the soul decay that you caused then.

People with serious hardships either suffer the consequences of past deeds or cause the hardship themselves due to their own clumsiness and ignorance.

Reincarnation is highly logical in rationality, there are no problems with the concept of reality.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

imrankhawaja

There is no loophole. If you are terrible in a lifetime and die in that condition, you will be recycled into an inferior condition, so what goes around comes around. Your purpose is to get out of the reincarnation cycles, so only by getting out you are truly successful. Even if you were horrible in another life that does not prevent you from escaping the next if you get in a better state of mind and develop all that which you missed in your previous life plus recovered the soul decay that you caused then.

People with serious hardships either suffer the consequences of past deeds or cause the hardship themselves due to their own clumsiness and ignorance.

Reincarnation is highly logical in rationality, there are no problems with the concept of reality.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

brother as the matter of fact .. we need to check it through logic... according to your logic there is another loophole i can see..

before calculating the worth of your claim... i would like to ask 2 questions ... when you will give answers of these questions you will understand why i have problem in accepting reincarnation...

is population of world increasing or decreasing ... ?
is the amount of sin increasing or decreasing?

when you manage to give the answers which is very simple ... you will get to know the flaw of reincarnation theory...

anyway the theory best describe the pain of life ... thats why i also interested in it... but when i think deeply i feel its not true... or unacceptable... due to these 2 questions...

Jafar

brother jaffar , if you help me giving your thoughts in the unfair deals of this world ... it would b helpful i read lot of articles and work of traditional /non traditional , beleivers non beleivers concepts about the pain of life... but did not get any satisfactory answer yet...

what do you think a person born with disabilities , poor, hunger , ugliness and all other stuff ...

When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.
-- Lao Tse

The universe is beautiful not because of it's equality and uniformity.
It's beautiful due to it's diversity.
Zillions of worlds, stars and galaxies
All possess their own unique identity.

Appreciating without judging
Accept things as it is
Accept events as it happened
Then you shall gain the understanding
-- Jafar

there is a loop hole in understanding the concept of reincarnation too , becoz in oone life one is sinner and in one life he is righteous which case God will refer .. while sentencing or rewarding...

Perhaps the 'loop hole' is actually on the idea of this entire thing is about "sentencing or rewarding"?
Have you pondered from that angle?
Or you are too judgemental kind of person and cannot resist to pass a judgement on everything?

If you close your mind in judgements and traffic with desires,
your heart will be troubled.
If you keep your mind from judging and aren't led by the senses,
your heart will find peace.
-- Lao Tse

what do you think about the pain of life... why it occurs

Perhaps in time you shall gain the understanding...

reel

Hahaha, I asked a similar question last year. It was, however, mainly about those who are out to kill like Dick Cheney. There are some things I get now. It is hard for me to explain, but I'll give it a shot.

so, if i/we kill somebody .. we consider as killer.. ( God kill everybody ,everysingle day plantey of them)

God may kill everybody, but he has given us a chance to customize how we want to die. We have the power to choose a painless death which humans' themselves can't do when they are out to kill.

if i/we take something from someone we consider as thief ( he provides to whomever he wish ) sometimes a person like billgates whose money length is twice the distance of mars... lol and (sometimes there is not even a piece of bread in africa for poor kids)

God is available to all. Humans can get his help in all their endeavor and once they choose a path, God keeps taking them to that direction even when they reject him.

When i asked the question about the riches some members here told me that from afar we can't be certain whether these people are actually living a great life. I now agree with it. I am always criticizing Rothschild because of the amount of blood they have on their hands. Just a few months ago, I was reading some books about some of the most successful entrepreneurs. Rothschild was in it. Apparently, they are not happy like I thought. They just can't walk to any place they like. They are extremely hated in Europe. 24 hours a day, they live in fear of getting insulted and assassinated. The attempts are just so common!

You know we are capable of making the world a better place. It is not difficult to improve the lives of African kids. But we don't try it. We don't even try to get rid of corruption in our respective countries.

if i am asking from my parents a piece of cloth/meal due to feeling hungry/cold my parents got a stock but they still refuse to give it (what i will feel about my parents)

is it becoz my parents dnt feel the pain of me... or they are happy in giving me pain?

I wouldn't compare parents and God. Parents are limited in their power. God isn't. He gives us when we ask him for what we want.

and lot of more questions ... why we are here?

To maintain the earth.

when a human being do things exactly what God is doing with the system of universe we considered as sinners/criminals

he do what he wish .. or he do everything according to law what he design? our answer lies here...

We were not meant to play God. We are given a task which we are to do. We can get an easy exit, but humans have got so attached to worldly life that they think they are entitled to every good thing for free. We have taken earth on lease. If we mess it up the landlord will obviously drag us to court and jail.

God is still being very kind.

Man_of_Faith

In some ways we are to play God. It is God-like to withstand the instinct, it takes a strong willpower.

Examples

Someone hurts you deeply.
You retaliate by response to instinct.
A beautiful person goes in the street.
You cannot resist looking and arouse yourself.
You are in a situation where your explanation of yourself may affect you positively.
You exaggerate your testimony (against the "do not carry false testimony" commandment).
Your son and another person's son quarrel.
You take your son's side without much search for an underlying cause (against "care for your neighbor as yourself", instinct of self-preservation).
Your neighbor buys a new 65" 4k LED - TV.
You desire the same model TV because he has bought it, but you cannot afford it and you are therefore jealous and a negative attitude is harbored in you instead.
You desire to defeat an opponent in a game very much.
You play in a foul way and damage the opponent to achieve your goal (the ancient decree of Moses urged not to seek to defeat at all, it is an instinct).
You work most of the time.
All your brain activity goes to think about work (you miss Sabbateh, reflection frequently and is obsessed with something).
You seek to climb on the hierarchical ladder.
You succumb to the human's instinct of hierarchy and forget God is One.
Your home contains many unnecessary objects and more expensive ones than you require.
You are materialistic, a most prominent human instinct, and they are often to display your social status, another instinct.
You do many vain things, much time goes on something you know you should not do.
You are indulgent.

If one can withstand everything in this list of examples they are godly. It is commendable/praiseworthy to be successful with this. It shows total completion.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

imrankhawaja

there is exactly oppsoite is also happening in this world

a person eating chicken /lamb
a person watching them eating chicken/lamb. he did not eat it from ages...

a person watching a tv in home
a person dnt have a place to live , he dnt need tv...

a person is driving a bmw/ferrari
a person is walking , he dnt even have money for public transport...

a person born in a family wiith silverspoon in his mouth
a person born and people found him in dust bin becoz parents want to get rid of him due to poverty or whatever reason.

a person born in america/europe is free to travel/live anyhwere without being disturb by immigration
a person born inn africa /asia is treated like a third world citizen... and is not free to move/live other parts of world...

a person born in america /europe have nothing to worry about education
a person born in asia/africa is forceffuly put on child labour due to the high education prices and the one who ruuning these institutes are legal robbers who sale the education what is a gift to human being(from God) to share with other people...

a person who feel jealous is obviously not a right thing..
but a person struggling for his basic rights like , food cloth, education ,residence is not a thing to get jealous.. but its his right..

while somethings only the people who are suffering can understand..
what i know is, in this life/world there is not anything on balance , becoz we are the one who are responsible for balance in it but we are less caring about it... we appears to take much care in making more cars then neighbour, making more bank balance than brother, making more houses for investment...

if somebody have one car he will go for 4 ,5 ,6 and so on
he just dnt realise his one car can fullfill hundred poor houses... but what we can say God gives to whoever he wish..

at first i was asking these issues from God thanx to him who make me understand its not God who is responsible for the pain of world.. its the human greed we as a khalifa did not paying our duties properly.. including me...

good_logic

Brother Imran, You forgot some more....
A person born to a slave of Pharoah, his mum threw him in the "Yam", he became the "Adopted son" of Pharoah....complete the story ....

A person born to a prophet as a gift from GOD.... Chose to wonder in the wilderness,calling to the Lord...Met a horrendous end...Complete the story...

...Weird and wonderful persons walked this earth,rich ,poor, rich then poor,poor then rich...Complete the story...

And this life goes on...Today for you, tomorrow....Complete the story...

Yes indeed, ..A person with GOD s gift ...Meditates to drive away the shackles and bad thoughts...Accepts whatever is on offer from the Lord( Yes ,even a horrendous life and death)...keeps close to GOD no matter where or when he/she was born.. Stays patient and loyal to his/her Lord for this short stay here... Then goes on to meet his/her maker...The real life starts ...Eternity ,here we come...Now that is the real life and provision....GOD will complete the story.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

Brother Imran, You forgot some more....
A person born to a slave of Pharoah, his mum threw him in the "Yam", he became the "Adopted son" of Pharoah....complete the story ....

A person born to a prophet as a gift from GOD.... Chose to wonder in the wilderness,calling to the Lord...Met a horrendous end...Complete the story...

...Weird and wonderful persons walked this earth,rich ,poor, rich then poor,poor then rich...Complete the story...

And this life goes on...Today for you, tomorrow....Complete the story...

Yes indeed, ..A person with GOD s gift ...Meditates to drive away the shackles and bad thoughts...Accepts whatever is on offer from the Lord( Yes ,even a horrendous life and death)...keeps close to GOD no matter where or when he/she was born.. Stays patient and loyal to his/her Lord for this short stay here... Then goes on to meet his/her maker...The real life starts ...Eternity ,here we come...Now that is the real life and provision....GOD will complete the story.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

yes brother i totally agree ,

God is encompassing everything ..

let beleiver trust in God , the only satisfaction of heart that pleases beleiver
although there are some cases that never get a chance to fullfill the wishes in this life but

our story goes untill hereafter and God as per his ultimate justice is also looking as a beleoved mother and father(methaphorically) at our future so he leads us towards light from the depth of darkness...

to God alone in we trust ...

Man_of_Faith

We could also give to whomever we wish, but we do not, because we are instinctive. But keeping someone poor like we do would put blame on God, no God has no cause in this but the blame is on us being actors in this world. No, it is we who do not offer the poor man money, support and education so he can lift himself out of his situation. God is not subjected to this world and its challenge but we are and our holding onto money manifests our failure. The more hoarding the worse failure one is.

I saw in another thread there was one stating the distribution of wealth in the world. Just look at that.

If a billionaire is giving 3/4 of his fortune this is not a particularly big sacrifice of his. He will still have a modest 250.000.000 if he had one billion. But if a commoner gives from his monthly income whatever excess he has then this one is most charitable.

Another thing is the one who runs a company, pays good salary to his employees, employs as many as the company can, contributes to the society and the person does split the excess of the company's income on expanding the company to hire even more workers or the company gives money to charity. But usually, the best is if the company can hire as many workers as possible to bring the unemployment down.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

imrankhawaja

nobody is ready to spend their money on poor..

thats why when the pressure of money increase(in singlehand) it also increase the chances of wars ..

good_logic

Man Of Faith, it is our attitude towards work that needs adjusting before we can willingly adjust the wealth.

We put jobs on a ladder of our made up status. We do not respect certain jobs that are necessary and need doing everyday and give them to lesser status people. We arrogantly lord it upon each other and put classes and races in order of delusion and injustice.

For example many people clean at home ,but how many are willing to do the job of cleaner. Granted certain jobs require a lot of study and training like doctors ,teachers etc... But still one should have the attitude that all jobs that are necessary and beneficial need respect.

Also ,some people are lazy and irresponsible others are in between and others are hard working and responsible.An attitude of mind that says we should all try our best in our jobs is also required.

Not easy brother, which ever way we look at it ,is it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Man_of_Faith

A problem is if our salary increases we simply find ourselves increased expenses, i.e. we spend our money on vanity and often to give an impression on others. For example, we may buy an unnecessarily big house, thirsty SUV, always buy the latest smartphone when it gets out, trendy clothes at high prices, expensive restaurants and the list could go on. And it is usually the mega corporations who hoard our money when we spend money on media and entertainment etc so that the money primarily go to the board of that corporation and its stockholders.

And companies are driven more on making profit than to actually maximize the number of employees and salaries and there is often a fat greedy CEO on top of the hierarchy.

You are right that we see status in different jobs, it is part of the human instinct. It is about hierarchy with this social status seeking and any person who has not heeded their spiritual self is exposed to this behavior and do race towards being on a higher step in the hierarchy. Being a cleaner would mean a lower level of social status. The highest are those that require the highest level of skill. And if we take pride in our social status we may look down on people with a low-income job and judge them based on occupation despite not even knowing the person who may actually be very intelligent but has their reason for not climbing on that status ladder.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

Jafar

we may buy an unnecessarily big house, thirsty SUV, always buy the latest smartphone when it gets out, trendy clothes at high prices, expensive restaurants and the list could go on. And it is usually the mega corporations who hoard our money when we spend money on media and entertainment etc so that the money primarily go to the board of that corporation and its stockholders.

Not necessarily a bad thing...

buy an unnecessarily big house <-- Good for property developer and construction workers imagine when people stop buying houses... property developer goes bankrupt, workers laid off and do nothing..

thirsty SUV <-- Good for car industry and workers...

buy the latest smartphone <-- Samsung, Xiaomi, Apple hiring new employee...

trendy clothes at high prices <-- LV, Prada, DG designers and models keep their job and not unemployed...

expensive restaurants <-- Recruiting Chef, waiter, food supplier...

And it is usually the mega corporations who hoard our money when we spend money on media and entertainment etc so that the money primarily go to the board of that corporation and its stockholders.

So what? Money doesn't have any real value...
If you want more money then start your corporation or buy the share of existing corporation...

imrankhawaja

If you want more money then start your corporation or buy the share of existing corporation...

its not that easy brother,

i already had my lesson when i lost almost all the savings of my life in stock exchange.. approx 8 years ago

only the big crocodiles make money from money... small crocodiles like us are not strong to hold the pressure of strange waters and the power of big crocodiles..

earning/saving money is one of the hardest task of life..

Rekkd

I have thirst/greed for power but not money. I would love to hold a position of a authority, ofc it satisfies me but at the same time I'm going to be just and will help the needy. Will that make me a bad person? Or fail on a spiritual level?

imrankhawaja

everybody have a greed/thirst of everything ..at smaller or higher scale..

when you asking power indirectly you are asking for money too ;D

some have thirst of money
some have thirst of power
some have thirst of love for spouse&kids
some have thirst of love for parents & siblings
some have thirst of peace
some have thirst of knowledge
some have thirst of singing/acting/celebrity
some have thirst of finding God and wish to talk with him..( the most beautiful and higher level of wish)

amin

Life is not only money, its a mixture of different elements of nature that makes us peacefull in this world, not everyone gets everything looks to be the rule of nature, but everything is equally important, so saints and prophets has asked us to practice the art of giving, Islamic Zakat, fasting, prayer, Hajj(pilgrimage) etc too comes under this but i think not perfectly practiced and most eastern religions do have these in their own forms.

Imran, A learned person even if he doesnt have the money could be the controller of the rich or powerfull? This is life and God's plan )

reel

Man Of Faith, it is our attitude towards work that needs adjusting before we can willingly adjust the wealth.

We put jobs on a ladder of our made up status. We do not respect certain jobs that are necessary and need doing everyday and give them to lesser status people. We arrogantly lord it upon each other and put classes and races in order of delusion and injustice.

I agree with that so much. What's worse is that our parents teach us about what a low job is. It is just so universal. Perhaps, they do this to make sure that we choose something better for our careers, but it is sad that there are even jokes about low paying jobs. People don't consider how some of them can be physically stressful.

For example many people clean at home ,but how many are willing to do the job of cleaner. Granted certain jobs require a lot of study and training like doctors ,teachers etc... But still one should have the attitude that all jobs that are necessary and beneficial need respect.

Very true. I kind of like how in California low paying jobs are always redefined. The message promoted is that you can turn the lowest of the lowest jobs into successful money making machines. Almost everyday, people are coming out to tell their stories about how a simple talent turned them into millionaires. Its pretty cool and inspiring.

Also ,some people are lazy and irresponsible others are in between and others are hard working and responsible.An attitude of mind that says we should all try our best in our jobs is also required.

Not easy brother, which ever way we look at it ,is it?
GOD bless you.
Peace.

What frustrates me the most is constant complaining about how someone's job is not satisfying. I have told some of those people that they don't have to bear the stress and that they are capable of being in the driver's seat. Not a single person gave it a thought. They continue being whiners despite having the ability to do something on their own.

huruf

These reflections are very interesting.

To me they recall the spiritual teachhing of prophets and any person who has really become a conscious spiritual person. The highest spiritual stage is that of service.

To serve is the highest spiritual grade. Prophets coe as mercy to people and they serve people. If we understood our work and jobs as service, as the supreme value we might be saner and hape. Of course there is a mtter of justice in retribution and a series of social considerations besides the individual abilities. All abilities deserve respect. They are our gift og God to best serve.

However the explicit or implicit menssage in all soccieties or almost is that service is the lowest of low. Till we do not overturn that shaytanic concept we will not be happy workers, servants.

Of course what reel says is tru also, we should be conscious that our service is good, that it is not humilliating but heplpful and worth. But WE MUST accept the premise that work is service, that serving is a gift of God and privilege.

Salaam