Discussion/Question about muslim divorce
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Peace Baitachal, you must reflect on what Islam is and what it means to be Muslim.
The atrocities that you describe are not Islam. Muslims do not oppress, nor are we unjust,
we are not unappreciative, but culture is entrenched so deeply in our societies
that what Allah instructs us to do with his directives and laws are ignored. Many adhere to
"what we found our fathers doing" refusing to obey Allah due to ignorance or coercion.
Thereby giving rise to those injustices you mention.peace
I know islam does not mean to oppress however muslims misuse it to oppress. To say muslims do not oppress is just denial. And when everyones in denial we can hardly expect change. What about western born muslims who still do bad things? They are away from a bad culture but they still do bad things....its not all cultures fault. muslims use islam to do bad things. we have to accept that and fight it and not turn a blind eye because sometimes i feel muslims are not doing anything to help themselves and just blame everything on the west/jews and it depresses me and makes me frustrated,
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've heard of those...they are great. But how will muslim feminists ever get support when there are people like a Submitter who don't want to accept the unfairness probably because they have never faced it. I don't blame him....feminism has been warped. But that doesn't mean he ignores the real problems women face and not want to help them. I thought this forum would be different with open minded people....but sadly I see it's not. It's very depressing.
No one is ignoring any issues and A Submitter's opinions definently does not represent anyone else's opinions. If you read his posts you'll see that there are many who disagree with him on plenty of topics. And there's a lot of open minded people on the Forum and some that have written good articles that you might agree with.
I know that ...but I don't understand. Why are some of the countries with the worst human rights and women rights violations muslim? I've lived in many muslim countries....I've seen it with my own eyes. It's been so painful for me and it's made me distant from faith because of all the unfairness to women. Why are they so patriarchal when thats not what Allah wanted?Why aren't muslims doing anything to help their women and the people around them?
It's not religion that's behind it and every 'Muslim' country definently does not practise Islam at all. I don't know so much about other countries but in Syria there's a Ba'athist state that's known for oppressing women and doesn't really have any religion since it's actually considered secular. Point is you can't really judge Islam based on what the 'Muslim' countries since those countries don't really care about Islam at all nor do they have anything to do with the religion. They have a long list of human right violations and all of these human rights violations go against Islam. I agree with hawk99's response. It's not fair to take it out on Islam. Islam is about equality and Muslims definently don't oppress.
Feminism is a false system which can't go hand in hand with the system of God. Feminism is an oppressive system. While they say they strive for gender equality, it's not the truth. If it was, it would be called egalitarianism.
How about the system of God instead of man-made systems like feminism, democracy, dictatorship, egalitarianism, the Right, the Left?
This is throughout the Quran; the system of God! Yet we seek other systems...
The system of God does NOT allow oppression of any gender. It's the other systems that are false, and believe me, feminism is another oppressive system full of lies and promises.The problem?
No nation today exists with the system of God. All are corrupt.Salam
You should really read up on the definition of feminism because it's pretty clear that you don't even seem to know what it means.
http//www.dictionary.com/browse/feminism
"the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men."
Are you saying that one cannot be a Muslim and advocate for equal rights for women? Instead of saying this and that is false, evil etc etc you really need to argue why, it's pretty much like the majority of your posts were you tend to state certain things are wrong or evil without any actual arguments. You might want to read this afterwards https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_effects_on_society
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One can't be a muslim and a feminist. These are two different systems, one is truth, the other is falsehood.
Anyway, you seem to be confusing things. I'm not ignoring things. I dream of a nation of believers with the system of God, where all oppressive practices are ended, and where the laws of God govern the nation. But you speak as if I have any power, or even any money. If I could, why wouldn't I support those who are oppressed or mistreated, or those in need; if I didn't I would be a liar and a hypocrite.
You asked regarding divorce and assets and money. And I told you repeatedly, what is agreed upon is what she should get. A dowry could include property, money, gold, whatever they agree.But then you continue telling me what if she won't receive it. I don't really know, she should ask that God only increase the wicked in destruction, and implore Him for something better.
Feminism is not the answer, but a nation governed by the system of God is. So I advice you to begin spread the message, submission to God alone, and introduce the system of God.
Also, if you're rich, create a charity aimed at helping abandoned poor women.Lastly, don't confuse the hypocrites that call themselves muslims with those who have truly submitted to God alone. Don't exepct much from those who follow hadiths when it comes to the system of God.
Salam
For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) on a reasonable (scale).This is a duty on the righteous. (Surah Al-Baqara, 241)
This is not referring to the dowry/mehr as you can see, its the addition to that. Although alot of male scholars like to conveniently mistranslate this spelling into gift/kindness so that they can wrongfully free themselves from what Allah ordained them. They also conveniently like to add in just for the iddah period although NOWHERE does it say this is just for iddah. Something like this should be determined by a shariah court, depending on how long they've been married etc. This is what makes me mad, is that Allah ordered these things to protect divorced women and encourage them from leaving abusive marriages yet for some reason muslims have abandoned this practice and the western world holds them on. Alimony, welfare, child benefit, its muslims (umarRA started child benefit and welfare) who introduced these yet for some reason this has all vanished from the muslim world. I dont care if you call yourself a feminist or not but please dont be blind to cruelties happening. The only reason i come on this sub is because i feel as if the muslims here are alot more compassionate and understanding and open minded so please lets all be true to that elektro elektro elektro
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No one is ignoring any issues and A Submitter's opinions definently does not represent anyone else's opinions. If you read his posts you'll see that there are many who disagree with him on plenty of topics. And there's a lot of open minded people on the Forum and some that have written good articles that you might agree with.
It's not religion that's behind it and every 'Muslim' country definently does not practise Islam at all. I don't know so much about other countries but in Syria there's a Ba'athist state that's known for oppressing women and doesn't really have any religion since it's actually considered secular. Point is you can't really judge Islam based on what the 'Muslim' countries since those countries don't really care about Islam at all nor do they have anything to do with the religion. They have a long list of human right violations and all of these human rights violations go against Islam. I agree with hawk99's response. It's not fair to take it out on Islam. Islam is about equality and Muslims definently don't oppress.
You should really read up on the definition of feminism because it's pretty clear that you don't even seem to know what it means.
http//www.dictionary.com/browse/feminism
"the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men."
Are you saying that one cannot be a Muslim and advocate for equal rights for women? Instead of saying this and that is false, evil etc etc you really need to argue why, it's pretty much like the majority of your posts were you tend to state certain things are wrong or evil without any actual arguments. You might want to read this afterwards https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_effects_on_society
Anything that isn't the system of God is evil and false.
Let's take a look at how feminism is the work of the devil
-Promises same rights but women end up sad and lonely because their belief lead them to it.
-Hatred of opposite gender.
-Hatred against what God teaches in Quran because it's hyper offensive to woman, according to feminists.
-Destruction of families. Mentally ill children.
-Abortion of what is in the wombs.
-Self-entitlement which is dangerous for the feminist and the people around.
-Flat ego.
-Disgusting behaviors.
-Hates marriage and prefers short relationships.
-Hypocrisy.
-An advocate of transgenderism and homosexuality; LGBT.
-Oppressive manners; such as a school with feminist teachers giving lower grades to opposite gender.
-Oppressive system. A divorce ends in the feminist getting all children with the help of feminist. This feminist can decide if her children can see their father or not. The father, if he fights long enough, may meet them 2 day each week. But if the feminist moves, it's more likely to be 1 week a year. After that, there's a fixed price for child support which disregards his means. Finally, she gets half of what he owns even if they agreed on something else prior to divorce.This is what feminism brought the world.
Anyone who says they want to fight so women aren't oppressed and get their rights as God has prescribed in the Quran, using the lens of Quran, should do it with the system of God, and not a false system called "feminism".
Salam
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Anything that isn't the system of God is evil and false.
Let's take a look at how feminism is the work of the devil
-Promises same rights but women end up sad and lonely because their belief lead them to it.
-Hatred of opposite gender.
-Hatred against what God teaches in Quran because it's hyper offensive to woman, according to feminists.
-Destruction of families. Mentally ill children.
-Abortion of what is in the wombs.
-Self-entitlement which is dangerous for the feminist and the people around.
-Flat ego.
-Disgusting behaviors.
-Hates marriage and prefers short relationships.
-Hypocrisy.
-An advocate of transgenderism and homosexuality; LGBT.
-Oppressive manners; such as a school with feminist teachers giving lower grades to opposite gender.
-Oppressive system. A divorce ends in the feminist getting all children with the help of feminist. This feminist can decide if her children can see their father or not. The father, if he fights long enough, may meet them 2 day each week. But if the feminist moves, it's more likely to be 1 week a year. After that, there's a fixed price for child support which disregards his means. Finally, she gets half of what he owns even if they agreed on something else prior to divorce.This is what feminism brought the world.
Anyone who says they want to fight so women aren't oppressed and get their rights as God has prescribed in the Quran, using the lens of Quran, should do it with the system of God, and not a false system called "feminism".
Salam
Why don't you also use this energy to fight patriarchy , with your logic that isn't the system of God either yet it is still so prevalent especially in the our countries.
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Feminism is not asystem it is a struggle for justice to liberte women from the oppression of lies and serfdom brought upon them by the present system, which is force based,not justice based.
There are things said by antifeminists which they attribute to the Qur'an which are just an insult to womanhood and humankind. That women still have to put up with it, is in itself a veryvaid reason for feminism, particularly for islamic feminism. The betrayal of Qur'an's message of justice and compassion in society and between genders is shocking.
Of course there must be feminism. Islamic feminism. It is a struggle for the dignity of humanity. Humanity is made up of women and men, not just by men with women as guest speakers for little things so just they do not make trouble and spoil the fun.
Salaam
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Anything that isn't the system of God is evil and false.
Let's take a look at how feminism is the work of the devil
-Promises same rights but women end up sad and lonely because their belief lead them to it.oh yes, a woman without a man is condemned to be sad and lonely -X
-Hatred of opposite gender.
Not really, only oppressive male chauvinists from the other gender. Like those who say feminists are selfish for wanting a life with a substance and a meaning defined by themselves and not their family status or husband.
I have heard too stories of women divorcing because they got tired of a beating and abusive husband... what a shame! divorce for such a thing nope women are not what they used to be nope
-Hatred against what God teaches in Quran sectarian chauvinistic reading of Quran because it's hyper offensive to woman, according to feminists.
Edited
-Destruction of families. Mentally ill children.
Do you mean breaking out from an oppressive marriage in which a child is taught day by day how a relationship should never be?
-Abortion of what is in the womb
This has nothing to do with feminism, you are confusing things.
-Self-entitlement which is dangerous for the feminist and the people around.
I dont understand what you are talking about here
-Flat ego.
Do you call ego the right to be equal active part of society and fight for your rights?
-Disgusting behaviors.
like? hmm
-Hates marriage and prefers short relationships.
What are you talking about? You have met a couple of licentious women claiming that miniskirt is a way of revolution and since then you apply that label to any feminist?
Maybe you are confusing women trying to find the proper mate with licentious behavior? Or, taking your words by another angle, are you saying that any licentious woman is by definition a feminist? Far from feminist, that is more likely lack of self respect, nothing to do with feminism and equal rights.-Hypocrisy.
Miniskirt is indeed a cruel lier &
-An advocate of transgenderism and homosexuality; LGBT.
All queers burn in hell elektro
-Oppressive manners; such as a school with feminist teachers giving lower grades to opposite gender.
That teacher is to feminism as Wahhabism (for example) is to God system, according to you brickwall
-Oppressive system. A divorce ends in the feminist getting all children with the help of feminist. This feminist can decide if her children can see their father or not. The father, if he fights long enough, may meet them 2 day each week. But if the feminist moves, it's more likely to be 1 week a year. After that, there's a fixed price for child support which disregards his means. Finally, she gets half of what he owns even if they agreed on something else prior to divorce.
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
This is what feminism brought the world.
I am still laughing about the previous rotfl rotfl rotfl
Anyone who says they want to fight so women aren't oppressed and get their rights as God has prescribed in the Quran, using the lens of Quran, should do it with the system of God, and not a false system called "feminism".
"Feminism" is not a system, it is a qualifier, so they do not exclude one eachother.
I think you are mixing up things current materialistic and vanity system of values is not feminism. If you think a woman moving her butt on a music video is doing it because it is one of the rights claimed by feminism or one of the goals of a feminist, you are sooooooooooooooooo wrong brickwall
Women's emancipation is not the cause neither the reason for the bad of this world, it only improves it with dignity, equality, and respect.
But it is ok, i find it even quite a rejoice sometimes the fact that some individuals have that idea of an all suffering obedient unequal woman who, paradoxically even for them, has the power to "destroy" those individuals' world just waking up and saying "it is enough". And then they say women's emancipation awoke all the bad in societies rotfl It only confirms that society was an all suffering obedient unequal women based and oppressive society all the time.
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Salam
Can you provide verses in Quran that supports a system like feminism, other than the system of God?
I tried searching "feminism", but there was no such system mentioned in Quran, in fact the word never occurred. I found Submission, Islam, as a system, with the laws of God, but no "feminism", sorry.
Perhaps you can help?Also, can you explain "Islamic feminism", I have never heard of this weird system. And what about "Muslim feminist", is this like one who has submitted to God alone but also follows another system, other than Submission, Islam?
Salam
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Salam
Can you provide verses in Quran that supports a system like feminism, other than the system of God?
I tried searching "feminism", but there was no such system mentioned in Quran, in fact the word never occurred. I found Submission, Islam, as a system, with the laws of God, but no "feminism", sorry.
Perhaps you can help?Also, can you explain "Islamic feminism", I have never heard of this weird system. And what about "Muslim feminist", is this like one who has submitted to God alone but also follows another system, other than Submission, Islam?
Salam
Feminism is not asystem it is a struggle for justice to liberte women from the oppression of lies and serfdom brought upon them by the present system, which is force based,not justice based.
There are things said by antifeminists which they attribute to the Qur'an which are just an insult to womanhood and humankind. That women still have to put up with it, is in itself a veryvaid reason for feminism, particularly for islamic feminism. The betrayal of Qur'an's message of justice and compassion in society and between genders is shocking.
Of course there must be feminism. Islamic feminism. It is a struggle for the dignity of humanity. Humanity is made up of women and men, not just by men with women as guest speakers for little things so just they do not make trouble and spoil the fun.
Salaam
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Feminism is not asystem it is a struggle for justice to liberte women from the oppression of lies and serfdom brought upon them by the present system, which is force based,not justice based.
There are things said by antifeminists which they attribute to the Qur'an which are just an insult to womanhood and humankind. That women still have to put up with it, is in itself a veryvaid reason for feminism, particularly for islamic feminism. The betrayal of Qur'an's message of justice and compassion in society and between genders is shocking.
Of course there must be feminism. Islamic feminism. It is a struggle for the dignity of humanity. Humanity is made up of women and men, not just by men with women as guest speakers for little things so just they do not make trouble and spoil the fun.
Salaam
Verses from Quran to support system called "feminism" and terms like "Islamic feminism"?
Salam
Can you provide verses in Quran that supports a system like feminism, other than the system of God?
I tried searching "feminism", but there was no such system mentioned in Quran, in fact the word never occurred. I found Submission, Islam, as a system, with the laws of God, but no "feminism", sorry.
Perhaps you can help?Also, can you explain "Islamic feminism", I have never heard of this weird system. And what about "Muslim feminist", is this like one who has submitted to God alone but also follows another system, other than Submission, Islam?
Salam
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Verses from Quran to support system called "feminism" and terms like "Islamic feminism"?
Oh this is so interesting! yay
Is science lawful outside Quran since the word "science" does not occur in Quran? Are we allowed to accept it or is it haram? hmm Is it compatible with Islam?
Can we talk about feministic Islam or islamic feminism? or maybe whatever is outside Quran is just falacy and man made nonsense non allowed by God? hmm
Can I read Freudian studies? Is Aristotle lawful? what about ecology?
omg CAN I USE INTERNET? DID GOD MENTION INTERNET IN QURAN? &
Open your mind and dont restric God's Greatness to a book.
May the Lord enlighten us all pr
Have a great day sun
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Have a great day sun
gentle lady is on fire today sun rotfl
i wish bold womens like you preach infront of societies rules/overcome by men ..
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Verses from Quran to support system called "A Submitterism" and terms like "Islamic A Submitterism"?
well you can find submission in quran , isnt it hmm
i havnt heard about submitterism lol
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Oh this is so interesting! yay
Is science lawful outside Quran since the word "science" does not occur in Quran? Are we allowed to accept it or is it haram? hmm Is it compatible with Islam?
Can we talk about feministic Islam or islamic feminism? or maybe whatever is outside Quran is just falacy and man made nonsense non allowed by God? hmm
Can I read Freudian studies? Is Aristotle lawful? what about ecology?
omg CAN I USE INTERNET? DID GOD MENTION INTERNET IN QURAN? &
Open your mind and dont restric God's Greatness to a book.
May the Lord enlighten us all pr
Have a great day sun
So you can't provide verses...
Salam
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So you can't provide verses...
Salam
Have you ever read Quran trying to understand it? Or are you of those who believe that God system is a "religion" and only a limited amount of chosen followers will be granted reward in the Hereafter while everybody else will be in Hell? Or are you of those tragically restricting the path and cause of God to a bunch of rituals and the condemnation to whomever does not accept it?
God's cause is much more than that and there are many more of whom you might call "unbelievers" fighting in the cause of God than "believers".
Because God is not a narcisist being waiting for Human kind to praise his Greatness (as I suppose you understand it) every moment or otherwise He will send them all to the hellfire. God is Great either people believe in Him either they dont.Is corruption for you only homosexuality, is shaytan for you the whisper of a winged being to praise other so called gods? Are the "false gods" for you little statues in monasteries? Is that what God is calling you to fight against? That? Not oppression, dictatorship, absolutism, crime, un equality, the planet's destruction, cruelty, poverty, injustice, vanity, materialism or imbalance in the world? From your other posts I supposed you don't but then you come up denying any other manifestation of God besides what "you" read in Quran. Read Quran then and you will find feminism, democracy and science even when the words are not used!
And yes, of course I can provide Evidence in Quran for gender equality and God's call to fight any kind of oppression and imbalace it starts with the first "
" and ends later with verse 1146!
And in any case you can also refer to other God's "books", because not only Quran is a reminder (3921) and His ayati are not only found in a book (2164).
There is a sister here in struggle trying to find answers, so please stop telling her that the God of mankind considers her less than a man in whatever important or less important issue or that she might be breaking into pieces society if she decides she does not want to suffer discrimination or suffer an abussive relationship or that God is going to punish her if she wants to develop herself in any aspect of life because Islam cant be feminist or feminism cant be islamic " brickwall
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its the fault of people who make the stories up like , the first story of human race..
in which they blame its eve due to which paradise/garden lost and God punished her through monthly cycle and pain of birth and man will rule the women ..
and they are successful in it .. every single person think womens are not a thing of worthy..
but after hearing these traditional stories .. i never make my mind up everytime i think about it the face of my mom comes infront of me , the women who i really loves after my God. so i decide to dig this story out . but i never find any truth in that stroy , intrestingly it was adam himself who is to be responsible as per quran..
the name of mate is not even mention there.. due to a reason..even bukhari and company also wanted to show their hate towards feminism somehow they are successful in it .. bad luck is this we have not much womens like my gentle lady virginia otherwise these things sorted ages ago..
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Have you ever read Quran trying to understand it? Or are you of those who believe that God system is a "religion" and only a limited amount of chosen followers will be granted reward in the Hereafter while everybody else will be in Hell? Or are you of those tragically restricting the path and cause of God to a bunch of rituals and the condemnation to whomever does not accept it?
God's cause is much more than that and there are many more of whom you might call "unbelievers" fighting in the cause of God than "believers".
Because God is not a narcisist being waiting for Human kind to praise his Greatness (as I suppose you understand it) every moment or otherwise He will send them all to the hellfire. God is Great either people believe in Him either they dont.Is corruption for you only homosexuality, is shaytan for you the whisper of a winged being to praise other so called gods? Are the "false gods" for you little statues in monasteries? Is that what God is calling you to fight against? That? Not oppression, dictatorship, absolutism, crime, un equality, the planet's destruction, cruelty, poverty, injustice, vanity, materialism or imbalance in the world? From your other posts I supposed you don't but then you come up denying any other manifestation of God besides what "you" read in Quran. Read Quran then and you will find feminism, democracy and science even when the words are not used!
And yes, of course I can provide Evidence in Quran for gender equality and God's call to fight any kind of oppression and imbalace it starts with the first "
" and ends later with verse 1146!
And in any case you can also refer to other God's "books", because not only Quran is a reminder (3921) and His ayati are not only found in a book (2164).
There is a sister here in struggle trying to find answers, so please stop telling her that the God of mankind considers her less than a man in whatever important or less important issue or that she might be breaking into pieces society if she decides she does not want to suffer discrimination or suffer an abussive relationship or that God is going to punish her if she wants to develop herself in any aspect of life because Islam cant be feminist or feminism cant be islamic " brickwall
I explicitly asked for verses that support "feminism".
If you read my previous posts, I also said that oppression should be fought with the system of God and not a false system like feminism.
In bold, where did I say this? Please don't slander, it's not nice. Literally, every post of mine discussing this has said to fight oppression through the system of God, with the laws of God, and not feminism. If you think the laws of God mean oppression to you and other women, while He has forbidden oppression, then you should study Quran more.
Salam
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I explicitly asked for verses that support "feminism".
And I told you I can not copy paste the whole Quran in a post.
If you read my previous posts, I also said that oppression should be fought with the system of God and not a false system like feminism.
Feminism is not a system!
Do you understand what "system" mean? Then how you define "feminism" as a system? brickwall
In bold, where did I say this? Please don't slander, it's not nice. Literally, every post of mine discussing this has said to fight oppression through the system of God
You are limiting the meaning of oppresion to whatever you want.
, with the laws of God, and not feminism. If you think the laws of God mean oppression to you and other women, while He has forbidden oppression, then you should study Quran more.
???
You should just read... in general... just saying giveup