What is a secular muslim?

unknownuser

Why do people assume that secular muslims are bad or not true muslims? wow nope

truth be told i dont know much about this, but one thing is for sure that i am 100% sure about keeping mullahs outta the government. esp the ones we have today corrupted with hadith and spreading hate. does this mean im a secular muslim?

im also for gender equality- as in giving women more rights for divorce, inheritence, etc, and against any killing of gays etc.

i really think everyone should read the quran on their own without any outside influences, only using their fitrah. then we'll see so many things come up that we thought but are actually untrue.

there are some muslim countries(bosnia, azerbaijan etc) that have made things like polygny, triple taalaaq illegal, and have many other secular laws. these countries are also comparatively peaceful compared to the rest of the muslim world? what do you think?

personally i think you can be a good and secular muslim, i mean why not? its far better than fundamentalists, mullahs dictating.

A_Submitter

Why do people assume that secular muslims are bad or not true muslims? wow nope

truth be told i dont know much about this, but one thing is for sure that i am 100% sure about keeping mullahs outta the government. esp the ones we have today corrupted with hadith and spreading hate. does this mean im a secular muslim?

im also for gender equality- as in giving women more rights for divorce, inheritence, etc, and against any killing of gays etc.

i really think everyone should read the quran on their own without any outside influences, only using their fitrah. then we'll see so many things come up that we thought but are actually untrue.

there are some muslim countries(bosnia, azerbaijan etc) that have made things like polygny, triple taalaaq illegal, and have many other secular laws. these countries are also comparatively peaceful compared to the rest of the muslim world? what do you think?

personally i think you can be a good and secular muslim, i mean why not? its far better than fundamentalists, mullahs dictating.

Muslim feminist, democratic Muslim, secular Muslim, Shia Muslim, Sunni Muslim, Salafi Muslim, Alawi Muslim, atheist Muslim, fundamental Muslim, Sufi Muslim, moderate Muslim and the list goes on rotfl rotfl

How can these be Muslims (those who have submitted to God alone) if they have set up partners with God, such as Mohammed or Ali? And they have become sects and follow other systems than Submission, the system of God. They follow man-made inventions. They are not Muslims. They are hypocrites, rejecters, disbelievers.
And those "Muslim nations" aren't really Muslim nations, they follow man-made laws, and they break many laws of God we find in Quran. I don't think there has been a Muslim nation since Mohammed's era and perhaps slightly after his death.

Salam

unknownuser

Muslim feminist, democratic Muslim, secular Muslim, Shia Muslim, Sunni Muslim, Salafi Muslim, Alawi Muslim, atheist Muslim, fundamental Muslim, Sufi Muslim, moderate Muslim and the list goes on rotfl rotfl

How can these be Muslims (those who have submitted to God alone) if they have set up partners with God, such as Mohammed or Ali? And they have become sects and follow other systems than Submission, the system of God. They follow man-made inventions. They are not Muslims. They are hypocrites, rejecters, disbelievers.
And those "Muslim nations" aren't really Muslim nations, they follow man-made laws, and they break many laws of God we find in Quran. I don't think there has been a Muslim nation since Mohammed's era and perhaps slightly after his death.

Salam

but they're comparatively peaceful? and i think a peaceful nation (that is majority believing and practicing muslim) is the closest you can get to gods true nation.

unknownuser

i dont think secularism is even that different from islam! Islam ordered so many good things centuaries, a millenium before secularism came in.

only did the hadith, the mullahs, the corrupt people ruin everything giveup giveup giveup.

I believe Allah want us to always use our brains and think.

Jafar

Why do people assume that secular muslims are bad or not true muslims? wow nope

truth be told i dont know much about this, but one thing is for sure that i am 100% sure about keeping mullahs outta the government. esp the ones we have today corrupted with hadith and spreading hate. does this mean im a secular muslim?

Because Mullahs and Ulema are the inheritor of prophethood..
And those who oppose such idea are bad / our enemy / friend of satan.. because they are threatening the Mullahs/Ulemas/King/Sultan/Prophet/Sheikh position.

In layman terms; they are the political enemy of some group because they see them as a threat to their well being / desire..

The reason is valid for all question on "why some group declare the other group as bad/enemy/evil"

personally i think you can be a good and secular muslim, i mean why not? its far better than fundamentalists, mullahs dictating.

Of course you can also be a good Atheist, Communist, Jews, Hindus, Christians, Buddhist etc...
Labeling doesn't matter...

"Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit by their fruit you will recognize them"
-- Matt 12

Regardless of name and label that they put on the tree...

reel

I have come to realize that I allowed myself to fall for the false definition of secularism often used by uneducated politicians and atheists when it comes to Islam.

Dictionary about Secular
adjective
a of or relating to the worldly or temporal
b not overtly or specifically religious
c not ecclesiastical or clerical
2
not bound by monastic vows or rules; specifically of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation a secular priest
3
a occurring once in an age or a century
b existing or continuing through ages or centuries
c of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration secular inflation

If you just see the above definitions you will find them matching sectarians and not us.

In sects, you are to follow men and not God.
In sects, social rules outweigh everything 'sacred'.
In sects, you are to show everything with your body.
In sects, you can do whatever you want and you have support for it from hadiths.

unknownuser

I have come to realize that I allowed myself to fall for the false definition of secularism often used by uneducated politicians and atheists when it comes to Islam.

Dictionary about Secular
adjective
a of or relating to the worldly or temporal
b not overtly or specifically religious
c not ecclesiastical or clerical
2
not bound by monastic vows or rules; specifically of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation a secular priest
3
a occurring once in an age or a century
b existing or continuing through ages or centuries
c of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration secular inflation

If you just see the above definitions you will find them matching sectarians and not us.

In sects, you are to follow men and not God.
In sects, social rules outweigh everything 'sacred'.
In sects, you are to show everything with your body.
In sects, you can do whatever you want and you have support for it from hadiths.

I'm confused(

huruf

God is not going to judgeus in bunches or by what we call ourselves but by our tru inner and outer deeds. When here we rely on group naming and outer appearance for judgement and classifying we are lying to ourselves.

By secular I understan that you are not going to make religion a public value. Which is the truth. if it is going to be sincere. It is not that you hide but you do not use it for worldly purposes not to get worldly dadvantagesand also it should not be used to harm or prejudice youor others.

Salaam

Jafar

In sects, you are to follow men and not God.
In sects, social rules outweigh everything 'sacred'.
In sects, you are to show everything with your body.
In sects, you can do whatever you want and you have support for it from hadiths.

I add few more stuff

In sects, everybody else outside of the group are either misguided and/or doomed to torture
In sects, those who opted to leave / abandoning membership are traitor and recommendable to be killed / murdered.
In sects, disagreement / variety is not tolerated, everybody must think, say and even dress in the same manner.
In sects, questioning will not be tolerated the only acceptable attitude is SAMINA WA ATONA (We hear and we obey) (2451)
In sects, a holy something must be venerated it can be people or dead people, book, place, building, amulet, deity etc.. And no other holy 'something' other than the approved must be venerated as a sign of loyalty to the sect (no other priest / prophet / leader than our leader, no other book than our holy book, no other sacred places than our sacred places, and no other deity other than our deity etc..)

By "sect" I don't mean only the usual suspect (Islam, Xtians, Jews, Mormons, Guru Nanak and other religious group)
Because the criteria also fit many 'modern' society such as today's North Korea (Kim worshipper), Soviet Union (Lenin and Stalin worshipper), Nazi Germany (Aryan race and Hitler worshiper) and many other authoritarian regimes.. And to some extent the so-called "Quranist" also fit some of the criteria to be called a sect..(Quran worshiper)

Having said that... the words "Secular Muslim" is indeed weird...
A secular usually do not associate him/herself to exclusively a religion...
A secular is not anti religion as well...
Otherwise the 'secular' can be classified as 'sectarian' as well...

Secularism itself is nothing new, prior to invention of religion all human are secular..

And from history I can cite an example of Cyrus of Achaemenid Empire who didn't enforced / convert anyone to a specific religion instead built big temple to ALL deities worshiped by it's citizen (including temple for YHVH in Jerusalem) to be a 'secular' and how 'secular system' is the best system for multi ethnicity multi cultural nation / empire. There are no 'official religion' of "Archamenid Empire" during Cyrus era..

The Abbassid Dynasty of Baghdad also implemented some aspect of secularism, all religion are tolerated (including Hinduism, Buddhism which gives birth to a hybrid tradition which later on recognized as sufiism), debate, argument and research are encouraged..

Secularism tends to be 'open minded', creative and innovative while Sectarianism/Religionism tends to be 'close minded', protective and conservative..
And as history has proved time and time again it's clear on who shall came up as the winner in a race for humanity advancement.

unknownuser

I add few more stuff

In sects, everybody else outside of the group are either misguided and/or doomed to torture
In sects, those who opted to leave / abandoning membership are traitor and recommendable to be killed / murdered.
In sects, disagreement / variety is not tolerated, everybody must think, say and even dress in the same manner.
In sects, questioning will not be tolerated the only acceptable attitude is SAMINA WA ATONA (We hear and we obey) (2451)
In sects, a holy something must be venerated it can be people or dead people, book, place, building, amulet, deity etc.. And no other holy 'something' other than the approved must be venerated as a sign of loyalty to the sect (no other priest / prophet / leader than our leader, no other book than our holy book, no other sacred places than our sacred places, and no other deity other than our deity etc..)

By "sect" I don't mean only the usual suspect (Islam, Xtians, Jews, Mormons, Guru Nanak and other religious group)
Because the criteria also fit many 'modern' society such as today's North Korea (Kim worshipper), Soviet Union (Lenin and Stalin worshipper), Nazi Germany (Aryan race and Hitler worshiper) and many other authoritarian regimes.. And to some extent the so-called "Quranist" also fit some of the criteria to be called a sect..(Quran worshiper)

Having said that... the words "Secular Muslim" is indeed weird...
A secular usually do not associate him/herself to exclusively a religion...
A secular is not anti religion as well...
Otherwise the 'secular' can be classified as 'sectarian' as well...

Secularism itself is nothing new, prior to invention of religion all human are secular..

And from history I can cite an example of Cyrus of Achaemenid Empire who didn't enforced / convert anyone to a specific religion instead built big temple to ALL deities worshiped by it's citizen (including temple for YHVH in Jerusalem) to be a 'secular' and how 'secular system' is the best system for multi ethnicity multi cultural nation / empire. There are no 'official religion' of "Archamenid Empire" during Cyrus era..

The Abbassid Dynasty of Baghdad also implemented some aspect of secularism, all religion are tolerated (including Hinduism, Buddhism which gives birth to a hybrid tradition which later on recognized as sufiism), debate, argument and research are encouraged..

Secularism tends to be 'open minded', creative and innovative while Sectarianism/Religionism tends to be 'close minded', protective and conservative..
And as history has proved time and time again it's clear on who shall came up as the winner in a race for humanity advancement.

quranist=muslim. whats the issue? its the opposite, people worship haditha nd take them equivalent to the word of god.

farati

Secular, theocratic, gosatheist, ambiguous. It doesn't matter. Any government works unless it oppresses you or claims godhood (demands worship). Those need to go down. A better system needs to be established. The key is a pluralist non opressive government.
It is as simple as that. I think believers such as us can live in any government or society.

reel

In sects, a holy something must be venerated it can be people or dead people, book, place, building, amulet, deity etc.. And no other holy 'something' other than the approved must be venerated as a sign of loyalty to the sect (no other priest / prophet / leader than our leader, no other book than our holy book, no other sacred places than our sacred places, and no other deity other than our deity etc..)

By "sect" I don't mean only the usual suspect (Islam, Xtians, Jews, Mormons, Guru Nanak and other religious group)
Because the criteria also fit many 'modern' society such as today's North Korea (Kim worshipper), Soviet Union (Lenin and Stalin worshipper), Nazi Germany (Aryan race and Hitler worshiper) and many other authoritarian regimes.. And to some extent the so-called "Quranist" also fit some of the criteria to be called a sect..(Quran worshiper)

Yes, yes, it is "haram" to have any kind of attachment at all....it doesn't matter if the thing has given us things we could not even imagine. If it is attachment it is laughable. So let's commit suicide. It is haram to have attachment to the body!

Secularism tends to be 'open minded', creative and innovative

Like this one?
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-pMU2dBgnVQA/WEL-Si3G8rI/AAAAAAAAAYU/ygM7m-MN-IQ8nPAf_wAD23fi_m8mDXT7wCLcB/s1600/Islamic-heaven.png

And
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-rMoVKTDS35A/WBCf7U6QEpI/AAAAAAAAAXc/2CIqZJX1QFwIQo1rv9cbAV3Jj1icuEeYQCLcB/s1600/hadith-meme.png

unknownuser

Yes, yes, it is "haram" to have any kind of attachment at all....it doesn't matter if the thing has given us things we could not even imagine. If it is attachment it is laughable. So let's commit suicide. It is haram to have attachment to the body!

Like this one?
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-pMU2dBgnVQA/WEL-Si3G8rI/AAAAAAAAAYU/ygM7m-MN-IQ8nPAf_wAD23fi_m8mDXT7wCLcB/s1600/Islamic-heaven.png

And
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-rMoVKTDS35A/WBCf7U6QEpI/AAAAAAAAAXc/2CIqZJX1QFwIQo1rv9cbAV3Jj1icuEeYQCLcB/s1600/hadith-meme.png

I think "sect" and "secularist" are different...

But seriously reel.

I was crying and feeling sad but then laughed as I saw your posts. It felt good rotfl

huruf

Yes, yes, it is "haram" to have any kind of attachment at all....it doesn't matter if the thing has given us things we could not even imagine. If it is attachment it is laughable. So let's commit suicide. It is haram to have attachment to the body!

Like this one?
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-pMU2dBgnVQA/WEL-Si3G8rI/AAAAAAAAAYU/ygM7m-MN-IQ8nPAf_wAD23fi_m8mDXT7wCLcB/s1600/Islamic-heaven.png

And
https//2.bp.blogspot.com/-rMoVKTDS35A/WBCf7U6QEpI/AAAAAAAAAXc/2CIqZJX1QFwIQo1rv9cbAV3Jj1icuEeYQCLcB/s1600/hadith-meme.png

That is very eloquently put.

Indeed, the view on the Prophet is outrageous. How can anyone not see it?

Salaam

reel

I think "sect" and "secularist" are different...

But seriously reel.

I was crying and feeling sad but then laughed as I saw your posts. It felt good rotfl

I am glad they made you laugh. Hope you are feeling better now.

Those are the words of Edip. I am so sorry, I couldn't elaborate on why sectarian Islam is secular in an extreme way. I'll do now. Deen is supposed to come from Quran. But that is something not available in sects.

They will insist that they are following God. But this is what we find in their sects
Man made rituals. You won't find them in the Book.

God insists that we have to use reason and observation. Sects demand blind submission to their ideologies.

Bukhari and friends know better than God. Sectarian scholars can't imagine God can guide humans. In fact, his Book to them is laughable. Seehttps//ancientmodernislam.blogspot.com/2015/08/sectarian-calls-quran-garbage-book.html

God approves freedom of speech, fairness, science and much more found in the western societies. Sects are completely against those.

God tells us to judge by the Quran. Sectarian scholars will kill you if you attempt that.

"Everything permitted" is the conclusion you will draw if you try to study and faithfully live the sectarian Islam. At first I thought I was the only person who saw this in their so called academic writings. I was wondering whether it was my error. Turned out that Ign?c Goldziher in 1850 already mentioned it in his book about hadiths.

One has to be very open minded and "unfearing" of God to accept that their

Prophet always went against the Quran
that they are the best community in the world
that they can kill exMuslims

Zulf

i really think everyone should read the quran on their own without any outside influences

How is that possible?
All our thinking is based on previous conditioning. It is meaningless to talk about "without outside influences". Everyone brings their own interpretations, points of view and tinted glasses.

A Secular Muslim is whatever you make it. It totally depends on how you personally understand secular and muslim. Never mind what dictionaries say. We all still have our own understandings of the explanations in the dictionaries. People will always label and judge. It is futile to try to reach a final, fair and honest description or label. Why? Because it has nothing to do with the label itself!

good_logic

Brother zulf,after all these years and you are still wearing the tainted glasses?
I thought,judging from your posts ,that you are trying to study Qoran without outside influences.
I keep starting again from scratch,...Honestly, I am still in the process of emptying the garbage from my brain.
Well, it takes ages ,like smoke/tar on the lungs when you stop smoking.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Zulf

Brother zulf,after all these years and you are still wearing the tainted glasses?

Yes bro, my tinted shades are on, and they don't come off easily, if at all. They're sort of built in. )

I thought,judging from your posts ,that you are trying to study Qoran without outside influences.

I find it difficult. This forum is an outside source. Dictionaries too. I'm taking a break.

I keep starting again from scratch,...Honestly, I am still in the process of emptying the garbage from my brain.
Well, it takes ages ,like smoke/tar on the lungs when you stop smoking.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Keep at it! Persistence pays!
Peace

unknownuser

Brother zulf,after all these years and you are still wearing the tainted glasses?
I thought,judging from your posts ,that you are trying to study Qoran without outside influences.
I keep starting again from scratch,...Honestly, I am still in the process of emptying the garbage from my brain.
Well, it takes ages ,like smoke/tar on the lungs when you stop smoking.
GOD bless.
Peace.

well put. thats the first stuff to God Alone. Removing all the garbage they indoctrinate into you as a kid.