Greetings from Germany!
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Only a few weeks ago I found this forum. The german Quran-alone forum doesn't exist anymore since quite some time. They are now on facebook. But it seems to me the Quran-alone movement is growing now.
Some years after the attack on the world trade center I started to find it suspicious, that islam in general had such a bad image. I began to read the Quran. It was somehow similar to the Old Testament with a strict but just God. But, of course, many verses I completely didn't understand. My naive expectation was then, that Islam is about understandig the Quran and I could find plenty of information which would help me with that. I did not yet know that hadiths exist. The Quran I found largely ignored and it's about "the Prophet said this ...", "the Prophet did that ..." all the time. So
one day suddenly I found a german Quran-only Website and my decision was immediately clear. Then I thought it is the best idea not to look for interpretations of the Quran at all and try to understand on my own, as far as I can.But I don't want to fall into sectarianism. I distinguish between the satanic version of their religion, the people who actively promote it, their sheep Followers and on the other side individuals who have a correct understanding, though they are sunni muslims. I am married to one of them. He sees me praying without a hijab and is happy that I pray! I follow mostly the prayer instructions of Rashad Khalifa, though I always thought he has gone too far in claiming that he is a messenger. I can find only three prayer times in the Quran the fajr-prayer, the maghrib-prayer, the isha-prayer. So I do three prayers. Why can't there be mosques, where I can go to as a woman without beeing dressed up like an arab or turkish woman, just like I could to to a church here!? Satan always wants to convince me to convert and
gives me a feeling of loneliness. I don't want to belong to them and don't want to say a shahada with mentioning Mohammed along with God.PS My picture here is not really true, as I am not as busy as a bee, I am a very lazy person, but I eat much honey. Anyway I wish to contribute sometimes to this
forum keeping it alive. -
Welcome to the forum sister! handshake
Don't give in to Satan, and know that God is with you.
Let's be hopeful for a mosque of some sort for the Quran only community in the future.
I don't think I've seen a maghrib prayer in the Qur'an, I think you mean wusta prayer (middle prayer).
If you're a user of Youtube, I'd recommend checking "Quran Centric" on his video titled "Salat in the Quran". -
welcome to the family sister
i like your signature
God bless you -
The video is quite new, I had not yet seen it. I will surely watch it at least one more time. Thats what I too was thinking Why do we have to puzzle piece everything about prayer together? In verse 11114 three times are mentioned. It could also be read as two times, but then we have no middle prayer. Yes, I mean the wusta prayer. But as far as I understand it there is nowhere a dhuhur prayer as a middle prayer. In verse 2458 there are only mentioned 2 prayer times. A noon prayer is not mentioned. The question is, in verse 1778, is the "declining of the sun" really right after the declining from its highest point? I think this is perhaps just an interpretation (I can't read arabic). It may be meant as the sun being already clearly at a low point. But that is all my current understanding.
The man in the video suggests that prostation is not meant literally. Of course there is no prayer ritual. But it is helpful to focus the attention when the body is also involved. -
MissMarple, welcome.
Your name sake is a good detective,she probably would have investigated this problematic "Salat" going all the way back to Abraham?
So, it is becoming like some sort of a "treasure trail"! Everybody is waiting for some beyond a doubt proof of 0.2,3,or 5 daily salat.Now ,the problem is some person is going to explain their understanding using verses of Qoran according to how they see it. Say a person says "Salat = commitment" there is 0 salat =prayer,another one will say there are 2 salat per day,another one says there are 3 salat per day and another one says there are 5 salat per day all according to Qoran in their opinion.
Of course as per 1736 we all go and double check what these people are saying....One of them will be right?
For me the more likely one is the one who has "bayinat" from the Lord confirming this authority . Then on the day of judgement,one can say "Our messenger has come with the truth" of course after checking the bayinat that this person claims to have...Ongoing with salat?
Thank you sister and GOD bless you.
Peace. -
actually make it simple..
how many salats are there in quran?
answer must b like this ..
by name 2 are confirm
salat al fajar
salat al ishaone is possibilty
al salat al wusta
so the theories of 0, 5, or anynumber become invalid as per Quran alone..
about the possible third one " the word al is worth pondering about"
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Imran,If you are so sure then only yourself to blame /justify at GOD s.
Others have to make sure by checking Qoran themselves. Otherwise they will be taking your opinion as "Authority"!
This logic is simpler.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Others have to make sure by checking Qoran themselves. Otherwise they will be taking your opinion as "Authority"!
yes its recommended that everybody make sure themselves according to 1736
bold my opinion can never be authority , only God alone is authority..
God bless you brother
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Oh, I'm not really sure about this middle prayer. I just wanted to explain my current thoughts about it. I think, as people here have different opinions about that, we don't neet to fear, that someone just follows that. Middle prayer means the middle of the day? Yes, that's what comes first into the mind.
Well, thank you to everyone here for the friendly welcome! -
actually make it simple..
how many salats are there in quran?
answer must b like this ..
by name 2 are confirm
salat al fajar
salat al ishaone is possibilty
al salat al wusta
so the theories of 0, 5, or anynumber become invalid as per Quran alone..
about the possible third one " the word al is worth pondering about"
0 becomes invalid? If you mean for salat to mean a physical prayer, then I beg to differ.
3356 says "yusalluuna"
You mean to tell me that God and His angels do a "ritual prayer" upon the prophet?
2218 says "yasjudu" traditionally translated to "prostrate"
You mean to tell me that God and His angels do a "physical prostration" to what is in the heavens and what is on the earth, and the sun and the moon and the stars and the mountains and the trees and what moves, and many of the people, and many who have deserved the retribution.
258 uses "sujjadan" with regard to entering a city. It is not possible to enter a city with one's forehead on the ground.
124 Yusuf/Joseph has a dream in which eleven planets and the sun and the moon are "saajidiin" to him. All the items named are spherical - or at the least round - and suspended in space. It is physically impossible for a round thing in space to prostrate in any meaningful sense for at least two reasons firstly, it has no head, so the best it could manage is to roll around and, secondly, because in space there is no ground.It can submit or obey however.
4829 is interesting, it mentions "rukka3an sujjadan" Their distinction is in their faces, as a result of prostrating. - 4829
Most translators have translated it to say "on" their faces so most have taken that to mean a physical prostration. hail nopeGod knows best
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0 becomes invalid? If you mean for salat to mean a physical prayer, then I beg to differ.
where did i say that salat = ritual prayer or traditional prayer ?
regarding rest of the things what you ask i can only share my findings .. its your choice to select and put the understandings on test..
i read lot of articles from lot of people but i found the articles of brother wakas is very informative ,logical and best describe all these things with cross reference..
i myself read multiple times to understand it , so dnt rush and have a look in to it.. inshAllah it will help learning all of things what u ask ..
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.htmltry to read it many times for better understanding..
peace and God bless you
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My bad, must have took it the wrong way. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvgdaq_th.gif You specified the 2 times for salat but didn't meantion what you meant by them.
I agree with Wakas on it being a Qur'an session to reflect upon for those 2 minimum salat times.
Thanks for the links, this will help me and others. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif
Peace be upon you
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It is very good to be here! Just one more remark about this missing prayer ritual.
Because prostration is sometimes not meant literally in the Quran it doesn't necessarily mean it is always meant this way. So I think it's a good thing to do it.
But if there were clearly a description of motions and what exactly to say, that would make all prayers of people in the world, who don't know this instructions in the Quran, to God alone invalid. -
But if there were clearly a description of motions and what exactly to say, that would make all prayers of people in the world, who don't know this instructions in the Quran, to God alone invalid.
That's the problem, there isn't a description in the Qur'an for a ritual prostration. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/consoling2.gif
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Peace Faith.
Please describe what kind of "prostration" is the followingIt has all the hallmark of a ritual prostration,like that made to a king...etc?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
My bad, must have took it the wrong way. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/4fvgdaq_th.gif You specified the 2 times for salat but didn't meantion what you meant by them.
I agree with Wakas on it being a Qur'an session to reflect upon for those 2 minimum salat times.
Thanks for the links, this will help me and others. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/47b20s0.gif
Peace be upon you
peace brother ,
thanks for understanding , we are here like family so our purpose here to share the information and talk about it .. (its a kind of sala too )
God bless you
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Peace Faith.
Please describe what kind of "prostration" is the followingIt has all the hallmark of a ritual prostration,like that made to a king...etc?
GOD bless you.
PeacePeace, apologies for the late reply.
Verse 12100 where the dream is fulfilled. The verb means to fall down. (Kharra)'s root = to fall or fall down. They're used in all these verses 7143, 12100, 1626, 17107, 17109, 1958, 1990, 2231, 2573, 3215, 3414, 3824. It is used of Moses falling down unconscious (7143) and Solomon falling down dead (3414). Perhaps "collapse" is a good way of summarising the action in such contexts.
The core features of the verse in question are these
• Joseph raised his two parents (the object is in the dual) upon the throne
• They (plural) fell down (i.e. collapsed)
• Joseph converses with his father
Aged parents raised on thrones are not given to falling prostrate. That which falls is in the masculine plural and indicates the brothers, who had every reason to seek Joseph's forgiveness and good graces. And it is while they are so placed that Joseph turns to his father and speaks to him.
If "sajada" indicates to "submit" (to the will of another) there is no conflict since Jacob has complied with his son's wishes he has come to the land from which his son called him and is placed where his son put him.
God bless you and peace.