any good articles saying women can lead prayers/pray with men?
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The Quran says NOTHING about gender segeration/women praying behind men. I'm so sick of why people follow this
They don't harm anyone with it, so not sure why you are bothered how other people pray, it's their choice no?
And why do you want to lead a prayer with men behind you?
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And why do you want to lead a prayer with men behind you?
Has Baitachal said such a thing? I do not think so, but why should she not want that once in a milenium may or twice a day or whatever there would be a woman. Because the opposita can also be asked,
Why do you want to lead prayers in front of women
Why do you want tht it always be a man leading prayers. The species last time anybody checked has two sexes, (except for prayers?)
Salaam
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Has Baitachal said such a thing?
No, I assumed it because of her title "any good articles saying women can lead prayers".
But maybe it's just a study of her to learn more about group prayers.I do not think so, but why should she not want that once in a milenium may or twice a day or whatever there would be a woman. Because the opposita can also be asked,
She can do whatever she wants, it's not my business, just curious.
Why do you want to lead prayers in front of women
O please.
I do not want to lead any prayer, not in front of men and not in front of women.Why do you want tht it always be a man leading prayers. The species last time anybody checked has two sexes, (except for prayers?)
Salaam
I really do not care whatever way people do their prayers be it a man or female. Women in front or behind or as chearleaders or in a circle or whatever construction they like.
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Has Baitachal said such a thing? I do not think so, but why should she not want that once in a milenium may or twice a day or whatever there would be a woman. Because the opposita can also be asked,
Why do you want to lead prayers in front of women
Why do you want tht it always be a man leading prayers. The species last time anybody checked has two sexes, (except for prayers?)
Salaam
the thing is, she said it makes her sick why people follow this.
I do not understand such logics.
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Last time this topic was discussed,this is where we left it
I suppose I have to summarise this thread
Women can only lead a congregation prayer if all the congregation were"saints and prophets" because of the "buttock" thingy.
Men can lead any congregation because the "buttock" thingy does not arise. every member of the congregation has "praying to GOD" on their mind only.
No Qoran verses were provided to clearly establish why women cannot lead a congregation to prayer.That good logic suggestion of "praying on the beach" was nonsensical, How dare he even suggest that or "praying naked"? even if it was intended as "humour"?
May be he was suggesting to concentrate on your prayer to GOD Alone regardless of who was leading the prayer and what they were wearing!!!
So shall we try again? Why can only men lead a congregation prayer? Or who really wants to lead a Congregation prayer?
Perhaps not!
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
I do not want to lead any prayer, not in front of men and not in front of women.
So, if a person asks an objective non personal question, why you come up asking
And why do you want to lead a prayer with men behind you?
I am sure it is no the firt time she is asked that if she has voiced her views before. It is not the first time, far from it, that women who asks questions like baitachal get supposed to be wanting to lead themselves. Very convenient so that afterwards those women can be projected as wanting to be more than others and arrogant, and lcaking humility and modesty and so on and so forth. Something that never comes up when males do everything they do and that want to keep for themselves.
The very fact that for speaking about this question brings up such response is a very eloquent proof that she is right to, as you say
the thing is, she said it makes her sick why people follow this.
If you do not understand thaat logic, may be you are not able to see, how human beings are humilliated whenthey re denied the very things that they take for granted for themselves.
Salaam
I do not understand such logics.
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They don't harm anyone with it, so not sure why you are bothered how other people pray, it's their choice no?
And why do you want to lead a prayer with men behind you?
I don't mind that men lead prayer. But why such stigma if a woman wants to?
Yes they're are many logistical reasons why it's more comfortable for men to lead but the idea that "NO WOMEN CAN NOT LEAD PRAYER AT ALL BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW IT WAS DONE AT THE PROPHETS TIME AND WOMEN AND MEN ARE NOT EQUAL" is so disturbing. This is the response I get everytime I bring this up with sectarian muslims. -
Salam,
I haven't found a single verse saying women can't lead Salat.
Though, I admit it would be very distracting unless the leading woman dresses well (such as avoiding revealing pants, such as tight pants).Salam
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I don't mind that men lead prayer. But why such stigma if a woman wants to?
Yes they're are many logistical reasons why it's more comfortable for men to lead but the idea that "NO WOMEN CAN NOT LEAD PRAYER AT ALL BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW IT WAS DONE AT THE PROPHETS TIME AND WOMEN AND MEN ARE NOT EQUAL" is so disturbing. This is the response I get everytime I bring this up with sectarian muslims.They do not know and they do not care how it was done at the time of the prophet and it is false that there is no news of a woman leading preayers because there is at least a hadith that says so, but who cares. What does not go your way you ignore and carry on with your own conveniente assertions.
It is like that with prayers, it is like that with inheritance, it is laike that with everything. And in modern times they have learnt that in fact you did not need to have diversity of views as there have always been in the history of islam. Today the modern muslims want to be like churches with one pope who says clear and definite what must be and no diverting from that.
It is very ridiculous.
Salaam
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Huruf and Baitachal,
Where I come from all the women pray behind men. I have never heard anyone complaining or whatsoever. Actually most women really like it when they can pray together with the men (of course behind them).
I also never heard anyone even suggesting to pray in front of the men. I think (I know for sure actually) that none of them wants to, it's to ridiculous for them. It's like here in Holland were it's ridiculous if a women opens the door for man.
Where I come from, the imam leads the prayer. If there is no Imam then the oldest or most "knowledgeable" man.
Everyone is fine with this system no one ever complained, not the males nor the women. Seriously everyone is ok with this system. No one gets hurts.I also understand that you also do not desire to lead a prayer, so what is the problem? Why do we get sick about nothing?
Maybe there is a woman who really likes to lead a prayer in front of men. That's totally ok, BUT not there where they are ok with their system.
Go to a place where it's normal where women lead a prayer.
To me it looks like a non issue, but I might be wrong and you see it like another example were women get undervalued.btw I never heard of a woman who was forced to pray behind the male.
Of course I only speak about my own experience with the people I know, which is from a sunni background. -
Who said here any woman wants to lead the prayers in fron tof the men. Nobody said that. Why in front of the men, why not in front of everybody or of the women? You are inventing this thing "in front of the men".
And what you say about women being happy and all that, yes and slaves have also been happy being slaves and never thought of not being slaves. And I have also heard not once but many times that there are many women who like to be beaten up by their men and who appreciate it. Sure.
I do not care myself to led any prayer but a do care that it should be always a man who does. Why. I get bored of male voices, I suppose as would get bored of female voices if I was given the opportunity. Like I get bored every time I see a photo of muslims praying, it is always men, never women. Yes it bothers me. Women exist and not exist in the moon but here, all over the place. I do not care whether it tickles the males to see the women. I am not a male and I don't see why half humanity sould b deprived of seeing women praying or doing whatever because it upsets men's comfort.
I also have heard of women who are quite happy "praying" behind behind, because at the back they can be chatterboxes.
Salaam
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Who said here any woman wants to lead the prayers in fron tof the men. Nobody said that. Why in front of the men, why not in front of everybody or of the women? You are inventing this thing "in front of the men".
This was her first post
"the Quran says NOTHING about gender segeration/women praying behind men. I'm so sick of why people follow this"
I understood it as she sunni prayer, because I read some of her other posts. She can correct me if I am wrong.What do you mean in front of everybody or of the women? On television you mean?
If you mean like television do you really think the sunnis will change their way of prayer because some freeminders like to see some women in front or as reciter or whatever construction?
But let me not guess on what you mean, because I seriously still fail to see the problem.And what you say about women being happy and all that, yes and slaves have also been happy being slaves and never thought of not being slaves. And I have also heard not once but many times that there are many women who like to be beaten up by their men and who appreciate it. Sure.
You are comparing slaves and wife beating with some ritual prayer, seriously?
I do not care myself to led any prayer but a do care that it should be always a man who does. Why. I get bored of male voices, I suppose as would get bored of female voices if I was given the opportunity. Like I get bored every time I see a photo of muslims praying, it is always men, never women. Yes it bothers me. Women exist and not exist in the moon but here, all over the place. I do not care whether it tickles the males to see the women. I am not a male and I don't see why half humanity sould b deprived of seeing women praying or doing whatever because it upsets men's comfort.
I am really missing something.
It's like me saying I am really bored of how jewish people pray.
I know you do not care, but you are not them.
They care, in their religion it is not good. I mean you can be bored or not but the sunni women like it the way it is.
I yet have to meet a sunni woman who is complaining about this. Only those who left or leaving sunnism (or any other sect) are complaining about it.What is your opinion on opening the door for a lady as male? Paying the bills for women? Standing up and let them sit?
Should we males also get sick and bored by this cruelty by women or is this different? -
This was her first post
"the Quran says NOTHING about gender segeration/women praying behind men. I'm so sick of why people follow this"
I understood it as she sunni prayer, because I read some of her other posts. She can correct me if I am wrong.What do you mean in front of everybody or of the women? On television you mean?
If you mean like television do you really think the sunnis will change their way of prayer because some freeminders like to see some women in front or as reciter or whatever construction?
But let me not guess on what you mean, because I seriously still fail to see the problem.You are comparing slaves and wife beating with some ritual prayer, seriously?
I am really missing something.
It's like me saying I am really bored of how jewish people pray.
I know you do not care, but you are not them.
They care, in their religion it is not good. I mean you can be bored or not but the sunni women like it the way it is.
I yet have to meet a sunni woman who is complaining about this. Only those who left or leaving sunnism (or any other sect) are complaining about it.What is your opinion on opening the door for a lady as male? Paying the bills for women? Standing up and let them sit?
Should we males also get sick and bored by this cruelty by women or is this different?I know many muslim girls who want to lead prayer. But no, when they ask their dreams are crushed because they're told their "weaker in faith".
I don't think you have any idea of the shit muslim women need to hear and bear.
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I know many muslim girls who want to lead prayer. But no, when they ask their dreams are crushed because they're told their "weaker in faith".
I don't think you have any idea of the shit muslim women need to hear and bear.
RED Do you mean you know sunni girls who wants to lead a prayer? Seriously?
Or are you talking about girls/women like you?May I ask from what country these girls are?
It's their dream to lead a prayer in front of men? I thought I had weird dreams.or do you mean lead a prayer in front of other women? As far as I know that is allowed in sunnism.
edit. please clarify what kind of prayer you are talking about I am still assuming the sunni prayer
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RED Do you mean you know sunni girls who wants to lead a prayer? Seriously?
Or are you talking about girls/women like you?May I ask from what country these girls are?
It's their dream to lead a prayer in front of men? I thought I had weird dreams.or do you mean lead a prayer in front of other women? As far as I know that is allowed in sunnism.
edit. please clarify what kind of prayer you are talking about I am still assuming the sunni prayer
I was a sunni girl for 18 years in a conservative third world muslim country before I discovered true Islam is God and His book alone. Not any of there sects.
lead a congregational prayer. Have a voice is the mosque. What's your problem? Atleast ONCE. Hell they aren't even allowed to lead prayer with their little mehram brothers.
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I was a sunni girl for 18 years in a conservative third world muslim country before I discovered true Islam is God and His book alone. Not any of there sects.
lead a congregational prayer. Have a voice is the mosque. What's your problem? Atleast ONCE. Hell they aren't even allowed to lead prayer with their little mehram brothers.
I am sorry to hear that, I understand.
Sorry for my harsh comments.
Please try to understand that it's not only women related, changing the ritual prayer in any kind of form is simply not allowed, also for males. -
I am sorry to hear that, I understand.
Sorry for my harsh comments.
Please try to understand that it's not only women related, changing the ritual prayer in any kind of form is simply not allowed, also for males.But how is a women leading "changing the rituals"...? What are rituals? Rituals also say stone adulterers and apostates. Rituals also say have sex with captives. None of these are in the Quran.
Please I just thought this was common thought among free minders I don't wanna argue or upset anyone.
But it's just so hard to try to have a voice when people tell you you're "weaker in faith" and give example of not leading prayer a supplement to promote the idea.
If I was a guy 99% of the problems and doubts I have with my faith wouldn't exist.
But I know Allah just wants to test me....I know He is just and fair. I won't believe any of the hadiths perpetuating him cursing or hating women. I know Allah is just. I just don't know why his people aren't just.
I know I make too many posts here. But when I feel doubts I feel scared and I cry and I want to seek help. -
What is all this talk about sunnism and what bothrs whom?
I thought we ar talking about whether it is a God given rule that women do never lead preayers, whatever by lead is understood, or whether it is again some human invention. No matter how happy anybody says sunni women are staying behind all the men, tht is a human disposition not a divine one. That is what is being discussed, and we are not sunnis here but muslims.
I am comparing women beating and slavedom with rituals. No, man you are doing it. What I am comparing is one humilliation with another humiliation. Sure when slavery is a rule thereslaves who do not feelhumiliatd for being slaves,no women for being beaten when it is accepted tht women like it and it is a show of love for them. Even if those who endure do not feel it as a humiliation it is a humiliation. You cnnot do this, you cannot do that you must do this you must do that, why you ar a woman. Let us do it to you or to men in general. ?Oh it feels so good!
So whenever nobody comolains about something you shut up those who do complain. Very intelligent. And I do not believe you that everyody is happy. You reallysuppose so or they do not give a damn about what they do just as I hav known so many eoe who are in mass and do nto give a damns and therefore for them it is the same to be following therituals clesely or to be lost at the back of the crowd being able to think about heir business and even talk. They want to change anything? They do not give a damn. Is that sunnism?
And of course there are sunnis who want to change that. You may not know them but there are. And when people leave religion like catholicism do you think it is for no reason? So are many sunnis an sunni women who do so because those things that you say they do not complain about. No they don't it is just to tyring to make changes it is easier and less problematic to just leave. I know many of those ex sunni women, they hate islam. Because of things like that. Why should anybody stay where she is humilliated? Kee your privileges and get lost, I do not want any of that, that is what they do.
And in order to improve things you keep tell them they are happy lke that and nothing should be changed.
Thank God there is Qur'an otherwise I think the muslim world would go the way of the West forget God, forget religion. And I wouln't blame them.
Salaam
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But how is a women leading "changing the rituals"...?
If I am not wrong you are talking about the sunni prayer. After the sahada this is the most important thing in sunnism.
Touching it in any way, is really a bad idea, no matter who you are.
There are rules for this prayer, exact rules and some variable rules. Women praying behind males is not something you can change.
Same for the sahada, you can not go to a mosque and say the sahada without Mohammed in it and expect they will be ok with that.
That's not how things go there. And I believe you and me have to respect that. For them their system and for you your system.What are rituals?
The way something has to be done according to some formula.
Rituals also say stone adulterers and apostates.
No that is not a ritual. The way they stone is a ritual, but not the stoning it self, the stoning is a law.
Rituals also say have sex with captives. None of these are in the Quran.
No that is also not a ritual.
RED They have hadiths besides the quran.Please I just thought this was common thought among free minders I don't wanna argue or upset anyone.
But you are not living with freeminders over there.
Our opinions how the prayer should be done or what is fair or what not will not work for you there.What do you want us to advice you? Just rebel against them?
But it's just so hard to try to have a voice when people tell you you're "weaker in faith" and give example of not leading prayer a supplement to promote the idea.
Do you know Yusuf Qardawi? He is a prominent sunni scholar, a male. He himself gives fatwa's for a lot of things. He once said something about Khadija (wife of Mohammed according to hadiths).
I don't remember exactly what he said, but he got scolded and was declared a disbeliever by another prominent scholar.Don't take everything personal even the their biggest scholars are not safe for being declared "weaker in faith".