science of God from athiest mind

imrankhawaja

everything we see and observe in this universe we found it as a creation

everything is classified in periodic table by which all testable things are made up of..

we also know at some certain point of history the shape of things were different and things and creation has it beginning

science and religion believe in creation .. the whole universe is a creation thats what they believe now. before that the mystery of universe age was unknown or it was assumed to be infinite

but there is not any infinity in anywhere so the debate session bring the very main role of all this in between their discussion "GOD"

from a human mind we always understand God is uncreated , he is not like creation..
the final answer is we dnt know yet

but just the random question in my mind .. what make God a God..?
trillions of trillions of trillions years ago when there was nothing there was a face of God
how come that being come into existence ? thats the most disturbing question which nobody have answer yet and from there the guess work of humanity start ..

that was the important issue due to which God send the revelations and nabi from time to time so at present 99% population are labeled as beleivers of God or demi gods..

we believe God exist .. becoz we inherited this thing same like we beleive when we look at our mother that she gives us a birth..

the real issue start when weak human mind unable to comprehend the starting point of that being somewhere one of his attributes are self sufficent so does it mean God is the creator of himself..? () this formula is also out of my head becoz if he create himself then he is a creature by default.. he begets not ,niether he get begotten rest of the things get begotten and change their shapes in the boundires of periodic table.. elements..

so is this mean the science by which athiest claim to verify God is itself irrelevant for understanding the nature of God?
will it be possible for human being in hereafter to grasp the nature of nature?

Zulf

so is this mean the science by which athiest claim to verify God is itself irrelevant for understanding the nature of God?

Some ideas

Atheists are disbelievers in religion mainly, and since religion tends to be very irrational at the surface, and that they teach God, the atheist will disbelieve in God.

At the core religion shows the truth, and all religions teach the same truth, but this truth is deeeeeeply hidden, so much so that religion isn't really teaching truths anymore.

Faith is to believe what you don't know. In all honesty, both religion and atheism are faiths in that they insist on things they don't know.

The sensible way to go is to be an open-minded seeker who uses the scientific method. The scientific method is nothing more than to be sensible, honest and truthful. It is to admit that when we know something we know it, and when we don't know something we don't know it.

The scientific method is not the same as what we in everyday life call science. Science is a bunch of disciplines like math, geology, physics etc. The scientific method, on the other hand, is a way of learning.

It is useless to try to prove God by using science.

It's like trying to measure air pressure or light intensity with a spanner.
It's like evaluating the amount of honesty in a statement, with a spanner.
It's like looking for mushrooms in the forest when what you actually seek is music.
If we try to use scientific disciplines to find God, we probably haven't even understood what we are looking for. We are mistaken.

Atheists rightly come to the conclusion that there is no God, because what they reject is a very materialistic image of God, which they got from religion. It should be rejected.

Then they make the irrational leap to firmly dismiss anything and everything that cannot currently be measures with instruments. This is ignorant extrapolation. This means that things come into existence as we get better and better instruments. Had you, 1000 years back, claimed many things that are scientific truths today, you'd be stoned or burned to death for heresy/blasphemy/witchcraft.

Many people mix up not knowing, with proof of non-existence. It's like staring into a dark, pitch black, room, or water well, and conclude with utter certainty that there is nothing in/down there, just because you cannot see anything. Perhaps there is a chair in that dark room, or a football in the well, that you cannot see. Your conclusion should be that you don't know whether there is something there or not. Madness is when you insists there is nothing there because you cannot see it.

Peace

good_logic

Peace zulf.
It is much simpler than just not seeing something. In fact you can know about things that you cannot see.
When you see objects like chairs,footballs...etc you know that someone made them even if you did not see anyone making them. You also know that for certainty . You probably do not know who but it will be somebody!
Now in the same logic, when you see trees,mountains, planets,stars,water,other things humans have not made...etc Are you saying you would not know for certain that "some Maker" has made them? Surely you can deduce they did not come from nothing? The other certainty that you will know for sure is no human has made them! Then who or what?
Anyway, our instinct also tells us that there is some force out there. It is just that some ignore many clear signs.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Zulf

Anyway, our instinct also tells us that there is some force out there. It is just that some ignore many clear signs.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Absolutely. Most aspects of Reality/Creation we are unable to perceive, and much of that which we have capacity to perceive, we ignore for various reasons. And we almost always ignore our instincts.

Peace zulf.
It is much simpler than just not seeing something. In fact you can know about things that you cannot see.
When you see objects like chairs,footballs...etc you know that someone made them even if you did not see anyone making them. You also know that for certainty . You probably do not know who but it will be somebody!
Now in the same logic, when you see trees,mountains, planets,stars,water,other things humans have not made...etc Are you saying you would not know for certain that "some Maker" has made them? Surely you can deduce they did not come from nothing? The other certainty that you will know for sure is no human has made them! Then who or what?

Yeah, but God doesn't 'make/create' in the same manner as humans create objects. Of course I do understand what you mean. I'm not at all disagreeing with you. I'm just wondering how far this logic holds. >

Peace brother

imrankhawaja

Atheists rightly come to the conclusion that there is no God, because what they reject is a very materialistic image of God, which they got from religion. It should be rejected.

yes exactly in that sense i m an athiest too...
i dnt beleive in all the Gods and demis gods what religion create from adam tilll today..
examples

jesus the human god,
hunuman the monkey god
sun god the creator of planet
greek gods of love,hate,war etc
muslims idols include kabba, muhammad and followers , followers of followers, in a chain still continue , different flavors of shia doctrine in which ali is god.. ali molla is a common pharase what they speak with ignorance...

i dnt beleive in all these gods.. i m myself an athiest...

now coming back to your point

but when i ask from athiest about the creation of this universe he have no answer of that , only answer as yet is accidental birth..

in this accidental birth there are two factors
1 a (creation) by accident
2 who cause that accident

if its just an accident why accidently the life didnt start on mars , jupiter and trillions of planet

then i come to the evolution of human being(life) not creation
the first homosaphien found nearly 2 million years ago
but first life cell is billion years old...

the evidence of somebody create it design it is more than considering it as accident ..

in any case both situations confirm a diety ..

the only problem of ignorant athiest is they beleive there is not any being .. but i know if there is a creation there is a creator...
ignorant athiest is same like agnorant suni shia or blind follower of system...

the genuine athiest is try to looking for the evidence .. some of them encounter miracles like i posted in one of the thread few days ago..

looking from that angle what disturb me the most..

who is our creator ? why he doing all this ?

why he did not continue to send his revelation with live miracles?

now where is the creator after quran.. ?

this is the era of science people usually dare to question about their faith and everything... they need to get answer about the very existence of creator..

atleast the creator have to tell a scientic method to us so that we can test it by ourself?

and moreover is he enjoy looking people in pain? confusion? opression?

if life is unfair then creator is unfair?

brother zuld i know i ask a lot unfortunately i tried and discuss with every big religion i havnt find my answers yet..

reel

Not many in the science field have problem

receiving infinity as the result of their equation
believing that there is a constant in experiments
predicting that the universe has no end and beginning

It is useless to try to prove God by using science.

It's like trying to measure air pressure or light intensity with a spanner.
It's like evaluating the amount of honesty in a statement, with a spanner.
It's like looking for mushrooms in the forest when what you actually seek is music.
If we try to use scientific disciplines to find God, we probably haven't even understood what we are looking for. We are mistaken.

Atheists rightly come to the conclusion that there is no God, because what they reject is a very materialistic image of God, which they got from religion. It should be rejected.

looking from that angle what disturb me the most..

who is our creator ? why he doing all this ?

why he did not continue to send his revelation with live miracles?

now where is the creator after quran.. ?

this is the era of science people usually dare to question about their faith and everything... they need to get answer about the very existence of creator..

atleast the creator have to tell a scientic method to us so that we can test it by ourself?

and moreover is he enjoy looking people in pain? confusion? opression?

if life is unfair then creator is unfair?

It is possible to prove God in an independent way just how we learn that we are falling in love with someone or realize something through careful analysis. It costs nothing at all. Hence, I find atheists' debate over his existence useless and dumb now.

I told atheists to pray for the worst to see if God fulfills it because that would also mean seeing whether he exists. This just somehow made them religiously sunni. I mean some stopped talking to me after that, others went to lost in translation mode and a few others started the drama of threatening to report me. One happened over here.

But yeah, there are many moderates out there too. I sometimes read their stories here https//www.reddit.com/r/exatheist/

imrankhawaja

who is our creator ? why he doing all this ?

why he did not continue to send his revelation with live miracles?

now where is the creator after quran.. ?

this is the era of science people usually dare to question about their faith and everything... they need to get answer about the very existence of creator..

atleast the creator have to tell a scientic method to us so that we can test it by ourself?

one verse possibly covers lot of questions in one go.. like this..

2784 When they arrive, He will say, ?Did you deny My revelations, before acquiring knowledge about them? Or what else was it that you were doing??

2793 And say, ?All praise is due to God! In time He will show you His Signs, so that you will recognize them.? And your Lord is not unaware of whatever you do.