Can we really blame exmuslims for leaving faith?
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now look at your bold part ...
it convey me a message that the one who serve his desire is a devil.. which is totally/absolutelty/definately wrong in my understandingsbecause if we did not serve our desires the whole concept of our purpose look imperfect...
even we have a desire to achieve janna(garden of bliss)
without desire humanbeing= 0The way I see this is that if your desire goes with the path that God has to tread in the Final Testament, then it has to be good. In other words if you desire to help people then that is good as God asks us to do this.
If you desire to save lives that is also good.However, lets assume (for the sake of argument and totally theoretically), that you desire to fulfill your lust of food, hate, sex, murder etc - that is akin to worshiping the devil. The devil wants us to do stuff that goes against God and against what God ordains for humans.
Salam
Ed -
In other words if you desire to help people then that is good as God asks us to do this.
However, lets assume (for the sake of argument and totally theoretically), that you desire to fulfill your lust of food, hate, sex, murder etc - that is akin to worshiping the devil. The devil wants us to do stuff that goes against God and against what God ordains for humans.
all these things are done with different angles..
like sex in marriage is not lust
the tasty food for surviving the stomach is not lust
the hate towards cruel is not lust
killing a killer/suicide bomber is not lust...there is always right and wrong in everything ... not lust and desires
bold part i always do it and in the end i always disappointed because the one who i help , show their real face after a passage of time...
becoz i listen the commands to help needy.. if i never listen that command at first hand i probabaly not suffer the loss and depression which comes to me as a free package just becoz i listen some final testaments commands...
i wish i never heard those commands that save me from possible losses what i encounter in life...but what is done so done.. now i will not gona help any needy .. its not that i m cruel its just i dnt want to get hurt again...
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all these things are done with different angles..
like sex in marriage is not lust
the tasty food for surviving the stomach is not lust
the hate towards cruel is not lust
killing a killer/suicide bomber is not lust...there is always right and wrong in everything ... not lust and desires
bold part i always do it and in the end i always disappointed because the one who i help , show their real face after a passage of time...
becoz i listen the commands to help needy.. if i never listen that command at first hand i probabaly not suffer the loss and depression which comes to me as a free package just becoz i listen some final testaments commands...
i wish i never listen those commands that save me from possible lossed what i encounter in life...so a person who overeats so gets sick is not indulging?
the man who worships his desire of sex and womanizes sporadically is not indulging?
hatred toward everyone is not hateful?As I said in my post, if one eats for sustenance it if fine. It is not worshiping a desire.
Remember, worshiping means to make something to the crux of your life. imagine that with you examples...
If a man has sex with a woman in wedlock, in agreement with the woman - that is not worshiping his desire.
a suicide bomber killing hundreds of people does so as he worships his hate of humanity - justice is not a desire but an ordinance of God.Salam
Ed -
a suicide bomber killing hundreds of people does so as he worships his hate of humanity - justice is not a desire but an ordinance of God.
Salam
Edand if some non suicide bomber kills hundreds of people he doesn't worship his hate for humanity? What does he worship? Fun?
Salaam
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and if some non suicide bomber kills hundreds of people he doesn't worship his hate for humanity? What does he worship? Fun?
Salaam
I used suicide bomber as the previous poster referred to one.
For me a suicide bomber is the same as a soldier that "legally" kills lots of people in illegal invasions.
Or a politician like Blair who is responsible for genocide.Here in Europe people don't really care which nations our armies invade or bomb and who they kill - not untill our shores see the refugees... then at that point, my neighbours get very upset - not at the invasions - but they get very angry at the refugees. They miss the irony.
Salam
Ed -
so a person who overeats so gets sick is not indulging?
the man who worships his desire of sex and womanizes sporadically is not indulging?
hatred toward everyone is not hateful?As I said in my post, if one eats for sustenance it if fine. It is not worshiping a desire.
Remember, worshiping means to make something to the crux of your life. imagine that with you examples...
If a man has sex with a woman in wedlock, in agreement with the woman - that is not worshiping his desire.
a suicide bomber killing hundreds of people does so as he worships his hate of humanity - justice is not a desire but an ordinance of God.Salam
Edjust see the colors of my message i told you in my post that lust,desires are not bad itself the act of right and wrong is bad ...
why you want to have a sex in wedlock if there is no lust...?
is having a sex in wedlock is different than having a sex with somebody else?what is common in both of them? a state called climax(fun) thats what all is the basic theme of sex with or without wedlock..
on other words human being is a slave of that climax .. either he buy salves by wedlock or invade slaves by power like in ancient egypt pharoah invade the slaves instead of buying themsame like if a suicide bomder already planned to kill thousands of innocents i desire to stop him by killing ..
i know killing is same crime , if i kill an innocent or guilty i by default a killer? isnt it...and about worship its an english transaltion of word "ibada" which is by default mean to serve something
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just see the colors of my message i told you in my post that lust,desires are not bad itself the act of right and wrong is bad ...
why you want to have a sex in wedlock if there is no lust...?
is having a sex in wedlock is different than having a sex with somebody else?what is common in both of them? a state called climax(fun) thats what all is the basic theme of sex with or without wedlock..
on other words human being is a slave of that climax .. either he buy salves by wedlock or invade slaves by power like in ancient egypt pharoah invade the slaves instead of buying themsame like if a suicide bomder already planned to kill thousands of innocents i desire to stop him by killing ..
i know killing is same crime , if i kill an innocent or guilty i by default a killer? isnt it...and about worship its an english transaltion of word "ibada" which is by default mean to serve something
Again, sorting out my posting on the correct (!) threads this time.
As I said on another thread
Lust and desire are not the same thing as making them gods that are to be worshiped.
It's like fanatics who make religion a drug that pushes the to extremes.
Your postings with a recent poster were about making gods out of your desires or worshiping your desires. Is this correct?
Salam
Ed -
Your postings with a recent poster were about making gods out of your desires or worshiping your desires. Is this correct?
making God out of desires ?
who can make God out of their desire when they dnt know who is God, or which version of God is truth?
the poster was thinking serving the desires also known as follow the devil in which i brief her things about the right and wrong and desires and lust...
desire is planted in human without desire humanbeing =0 thats what i said
if we look at the history of our species the offering of trust to humanity is itself a desire to achieve higher grade isnt it?
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4523 Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?
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4523 Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?
so you are trying to say its Allah who lead people astray?
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so you are trying to say its Allah who lead people astray?
Nope, whoever serves their desires (following the devil) is lead astray.
Interesting that the next ayah says
4524 And they say, "There is not but our worldly life; we die and live, and nothing destroys us except time." And they have of that no knowledge; they are only assuming.Sounds like atheists to mee
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Interesting that the next ayah says
4524 And they say, "There is not but our worldly life; we die and live, and nothing destroys us except time." And they have of that no knowledge; they are only assuming.Sounds like atheists to mee
yeh i agree its interesting ayah after that , but if you look it its not about disbeleiver its about the one who believe time as their god..
current athiest actually dnt beleive in God so this theory we cant apply to him.. its mushrik vs kaffir(the one who conceal the truth)there are different states of kaffirs/mushriks/disbeleivers/munafiqon/mafasidoon/zalimoon depend on the actions of individual ..
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making God out of desires ?
Have you forgotten or do you really want this to a needless and never ending exchange?
Either way please check the context of your original supposition.I should also clarify I am on this web portal to discuss with others who are Quran-alone Muslims and not with anyone who confesses to be an Atheist, evangelical or zionist - ie a non Quranist perspective.
There are plenty of Atheist forums if indeed you are interested in Atheism.
Peace
Ed -
Have you forgotten or do you really want this to a needless and never ending exchange?
Either way please check the context of your original supposition.I should also clarify I am on this web portal to discuss with others who are Quran-alone Muslims and not with anyone who confesses to be an Atheist, evangelical or zionist - ie a non Quranist perspective.
There are plenty of Atheist forums if indeed you are interested in Atheism.
Peace
Ednot only in atheism i m interested in lot of things like shape of earth, purpose of life, nature of nature, science, numerology etc
my original supposition ? well take ur time plz and read all that thread again u have habit of mixing things .. and if u r new here , my advice is dnt jugde a book by its cover ..
and why i m not on athiest forum becoz this forum is the only forum i join in all my life ..here in this forum i can talk with every flavor of faith sometimes even i encounter messengers and prophets here... even imam mehdi is also hiding somehwere in the corner of this forum..
language experts, geologist, flat earthers, agnostics, self proclaimed scholars, disqualified philosphers.. and lot more varities which i never see in any other forum .. i love this place its like a home to me.. and you are advising me to leave my home (not fair)... -
yeh i agree its interesting ayah after that , but if you look it its not about disbeleiver its about the one who believe time as their god..
current athiest actually dnt beleive in God so this theory we cant apply to him.. its mushrik vs kaffir(the one who conceal the truth)Does this also excluude atheists??
274 Indeed, for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have made pleasing to them their deeds, so they wander blindly.
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Does this also excluude atheists??
274 Indeed, for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have made pleasing to them their deeds, so they wander blindly.
God is the one who will judge everybody according to the laws .. (and he knows whats inside the chests)
RED athiest and everybody else who dnt beleive in hereafter , its mean they dnt beleive in the law of accountability & judgement of action..
it can b anybody regardless of race/label..BOLD beautiful verse i agree..
look this verse from this angle..274 Those who do not believe in the Eternity of the ?self?, will obviously deny the continuation of life after death. Our law makes their deeds of instant gratification pleasing in their eyes and so they keep stumbling blindly to and fro.
peace