Religous Pluralism
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So by this hateful logic, why is the West so keen to have a piece of this so called "hell" and to plant Europeans on a corner of it and call it Israel?
Do you agree it is hateful to taint all "Muslim" countries as being in hell?
It is not hateful, it is reality as described in Quran, and it is not helpful for people to hide truth to them.
But most people have aversion for truth.Hell and Paradise are not afterlife. People who say that don't read Quran carefully.
Hell and Paradise are states of the nations on Earth.3974 And they said "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the land, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"
It's clear that Paradise is on earth and for those who are entitled to the promise of God.
Is any Muslim country today the land that was promised in this verse ? No way.
I'm sad for people who live in and who believe it's the lobby of Paradise. -
It is not hateful, it is reality as described in Quran, and it is not helpful for people to hide truth to them.
But most people have aversion for truth.Hell and Paradise are not afterlife. People who say that don't read Quran carefully.
Hell and Paradise are states of the nations on Earth.3974 And they said "Praise be to God who has fulfilled His promise to us, and He made us inherit the land, enjoying Paradise as we please. What a beautiful recompense for the workers!"
It's clear that Paradise is on earth and for those who are entitled to the promise of God.
Is any Muslim country today the land that was promised in this verse ? No way.
I'm sad for people who live in and who believe it's the lobby of Paradise.Oh dear, that's what happens when a hateful person tries to "interpret" the Quran.
I have reported your hateful comments to the moderators.
I guess some right-wing extremists think that where-ever their governments invade and murder innocents and then fire hellfire missiles into becomes hell.
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Oh dear, that's what happens when a hateful person tries to "interpret" the Quran.
I have reported your hateful comments to the moderators.
I guess some right-wing extremists think that where-ever their governments invade and murder innocents and then fire hellfire missiles into becomes hell.
Not only that, EdQ, I like particularly this "pearl"
"Hell and Paradise are states of the nations on Earth."
Talk about collective punishment and how fair it is.
I have to admit that there are posters I just simply do not read, not because they make mad, but because they bore me. Once you have read one of their posts, you have read them all.
Salaam
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Sorry to bore you guys, but collective punishment is clearly mentionned in Quran.
The Thamud, when one killed the camel.
The people of Lot, for whom Abraham tried to intercede without luck.
The people of Pharaoh, called a pervert one.And this verse
1716 And if We wish to destroy a town, We allow its carefree to rule it, so then they commit wickedness in it, so then it deserves the sentence, so then We destroy it completely.Only a few are saved, those people of the House.
Please read Quran with greater care.
And a side note for those who are in perplexity for my speech I'm a quranist, Quran is my book.
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Please read Quran with greater care.
And a side note for those who are in perplexity for my speech I'm a quranist, Quran is my book.
RED exactly handshake
BOLD you should have to say like this i am a peacemaker(muslim with small m) who follow quran as a guidance from God..
there is not any quranist exist in quran in the system (deen)of God..
God bless you
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Sorry inrankhwaja but the word used is "nushuz" disobedience. Not "fashiha" or adultery or cheating.
What is nushuz? A man can think his wife simply talking back to him is nushuz ill-conduct and he'll think he has the right to beat her. I'm shocked to hear this opinion from you.
Compare that to 4128, when the wife is experiencing nushuz whatsays the solution? "Peaceful reconciliation"???
Anyway this post isn't about 434 or the other darker verses, but to us to use our reasoning and fitrah.
This argument of "the quran is infallible because it says it's infalliable" is circular reasoning. There is simply no proof, even the oldest quran dates later.
Why are "Muslims" any more lucky than jew, Christians, Buddhists, athiests etc etc to have their book protected alone? God loves all his creatures. Why would he be so selective to love only few.Again this is just my thoughts, but I will not limit my relationship with the god to what one book says, or one religion says. I want pray to him with love.
That being said, this is just my thoughts...eventhough I was happy being quranist...my soul didn't feel right. So I feel god showed me another way. Nothing is more important than my personal relationship with him.
The quran had one message, peacemaking and belief. sun sun I'm not sure how or why the cultists religion of oppression formed but oh well, negative entities and god.
I don't know why EdQ is always giving me cold responses but I don't really care. I should let what a book says or what a human says or what a religion says deter my faith in God.
Peace to all free minders sun sun
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Again I don't think ALL OF quran is corrupt. Just the part where the merciful god is calling people donkeys and throwing people in eternal hell fire rotfl
The purpose of the quran IMO was to sent the DEEN/system of islam/peacemaking. Not to form a religion, or oppress people, or make set in stone laws that are apparently forbidden to improve, or to conquest, or to fight, or to enslave.
Too bad surahs like surah 9 and the all khizr story come in like falsehood.Same with bible. Read some verses. BEAUTIFUL. JUST BEAUTIFUL. hail hail but then read some other verses...... & & violent, oppressive, horrible....
Same with all others. You can't say that religions have NOTHING to do with their books, because they do.
One system peacemaking sun
No religions....no divisions over books...
I'm glad I was able to read the Quran with my reading, my reading alone. I could see the underpinnings of guidance hail
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BOLD you should have to say like this i am a peacemaker(muslim with small m) who follow quran as a guidance from God..
I disagree here a muslim in Quran is not a peacemaker but someone who strives to have a clear mind like Abraham.
Making peace in state of spiritual confusion is the dream of the tyrants.Once you have clear mind, you know what a real peace is.
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Sorry inrankhwaja but the word used is "nushuz" disobedience. Not "fashiha" or adultery or cheating.
What is nushuz? A man can think his wife simply talking back to him is nushuz ill-conduct and he'll think he has the right to beat her. I'm shocked to hear this opinion from you.
Compare that to 4128, when the wife is experiencing nushuz whatsays the solution? "Peaceful reconciliation"???
Anyway this post isn't about 434 or the other darker verses, but to us to use our reasoning and fitrah.
This argument of "the quran is infallible because it says it's infalliable" is circular reasoning. There is simply no proof, even the oldest quran dates later.
Why are "Muslims" any more lucky than jew, Christians, Buddhists, athiests etc etc to have their book protected alone? God loves all his creatures. Why would he be so selective to love only few.Again this is just my thoughts, but I will not limit my relationship with the god to what one book says, or one religion says. I want pray to him with love.
That being said, this is just my thoughts...eventhough I was happy being quranist...my soul didn't feel right. So I feel god showed me another way. Nothing is more important than my personal relationship with him.
The quran had one message, peacemaking and belief. sun sun I'm not sure how or why the cultists religion of oppression formed but oh well, negative entities and god.
I don't know why EdQ is always giving me cold responses but I don't really care. I should let what a book says or what a human says or what a religion says deter my faith in God.
Peace to all free minders sun sun
4.34 is perfect only you seem to have believed what people have made of it which has nothing to do with what it raeally says. It is to revolutionary to be palatable even to prograssive people of today. Humans do not seem to be ready for that. But do not blame the aya. What has been done with that aya and others but partiularly this one, can be done with anything. If you think that the Qur'an is wrong you will have to think that absolutely everythin is wrong because everything is subject to the falsifying by people.
Salaam
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Sorry inrankhwaja but the word used is "nushuz" disobedience. Not "fashiha" or adultery or cheating.
when quran use words , its very selective because this book is from supreme being who is not that immoral to use abusive language ... for example whore, prositute, slut or slag.. (its very logical)
coming back to your point this "disobedience" covers everything like adultery, zina, fahisha, cheating with money and cheating with relationship and many more things.. and real gentle man can sacrifice everything on her women .. but also a real gentle man dnt want her women sleep with somebody else.. thats a nature of a real and loyal and honest person.. and he apply same rule on himself too
if you see the context of full verse you may get it from what point of view this verse is coming from..
about rest of your post
just i want to remind you some key points if you unable to grasp the concepts you will not understand it surely..quran is not specified to Muslims(with capital m)
its a revelation from the lord of universe to the whole humankind...(including jews,christians,even athiests)the revelations comes down as series from adam till last prophet
the series of previous scriptures for the specific period and specific nations
quran is for all of the nations and eras..the updated revelation must remain unchanged (thats what logic said about God)
there is only truth and false exist (so test it )
term quranist when taken as label will not take you anywhere.
the arabic was the only language at seventh century that convey the message to humanity in a way it should b delivered..
arabs only mastered langauge and poetry its a well known factit seems to me God made a perfect plan to send his final series of revelation in arabic so he let arabic evolved first ..
the metaphorical approach best describe the things what we cannnot percieve like janna, and hereafter and about God nature..
the words that quran use derived from roots the only language that use root in its core meanings for every word..
my post was just to tell you about the evil people who we know exist .. so thats why God advise in his book how to handle that situation.. if you encounter this type of disobeyment.. by a disloyal wife
the verse is very logical with respect to the points i mention in my previous post..
God knows some people are going to create trouble with the system of peacemaking .. like cheatinganyway take your time and dnt rush ..
God bless you ..
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I disagree here a muslim in Quran is not a peacemaker
are you disagree with the meanings of islam =peace?
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little knowledge of quran will make you athiest,
indepth knowledge of quran will make you beleiversomebody say this thing ages ago i just remember it today becoz after a long time i spend that much time today on forum.. some folks are incredibly perfect group
but this saying is very thoughtful if one really understand it...
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4.34 is perfect only you seem to have believed what people have made of it which has nothing to do with what it raeally says. It is to revolutionary to be palatable even to prograssive people of today. Humans do not seem to be ready for that. But do not blame the aya. What has been done with that aya and others but partiularly this one, can be done with anything. If you think that the Qur'an is wrong you will have to think that absolutely everythin is wrong because everything is subject to the falsifying by people.
Salaam
Exactly. Wise as ever sun
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Inrankhwaja,
Nushuz =\ fashiha.
Stop making your own definitions. You ignored again, what about when wife experiencing nushuz 4128. Such a different approach. I always get used to get so jealous of how other countries treat women, compared how they're treated in "Islamic countries." And WELFARE. haha that thing stemming from zakat doesn't exist. Many other good things not present...Oh well, it is a product of blind faith and mischief and Falsehood. The influence of negative entities when they outnumber gods good. Certainly not peacemaking.
Again, I DO NOT WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THIS.
No wonder many "apostates" are women, they're surrounded by men who think they have the right to beat. Sickening. Just deplorable.
Then again, THERE IS NO SUCH THING as an apostate from Islam. Islam is not a religion. Peacemaking is not limited to the quran. Peacemaking is the Universal theme among all holy books, unfortunately ritualistic idol worship falsehood replaces peacemaking.-------------------------NO ARGUING ABT VERSES NOW-------------------
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You are a good one. You make your own definitions and ocme and tll me not to make them.
Nushuz is not fahisha. if nushuz were fahisha it would be called fahisha not nushuz.
And you do not know what nushuz means and you do notknow even what you read.
And since you do not know what you read, you figure tht I habe not seen or noticed the nushuz in 4.128.
Wrong, I discovered it long time ago. And there is a big difference between the situation in 4.34 and 4.128,.
In 4.128 it is speakinng about a couple, in 4.34 it speaking not about couples but about women. The part about the nushuz does not mention couples but women in plural, and the adressee as in all those ayas are the believers, men and women, the addresse are not any husbands which do not appear at all in the aya.
You may not want to arge about this, but you have argued.
You are dead afraid. ou are dead afeaid that God may hate women just as some males have hated women to have made this aya into whhat they say it is and which it is not. And you want to punish me for daring to contradict that, because you do not have the strength to oppose that nor know how to. So it is more omfortable to accept the statu quo and agree with the usual stupidy superposed on this aya.
Have it any way you like but you cannot impose you view on others. A view which obviously does nto ake you happy but whhich in spite of it you want that it comes out as the winner.
I won't play that game. The usual version is illogical and nonsensical and I will say it as may times as I am able to because it is a slander of God and a slander of women.
Salaam
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Are you speaking to me?
& & & &
NOOOOOO PLEASE DON'T BE MAD AT ME
'( '(I'll explain. I was up all night reading really interesting posts here for example this one
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11372.20
And that's where I got the idea from. I did not mean to make anyone angry!!!! -[ -[ -[
It was merely an idea, one that I've seen supported here on this forum. JUST AN IDEA.
Please don't be mad at me please please '( -[
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Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
UGH I don't even know why I bought surah nisa up you're right I don't know why.
I just wanted to know what you guys thought about religous pluralism, and perhaps like how the quran from allah was sending the system of peacemaking somehow got turned into the religion of Islam...same happened to all religions.
No divisions, no more "my religion is better than yours" or "my book is better than yours" but only justice and love. I'm sure that's what everyone wants and that's certainly what rahman raheem would want.
hail hail
Alhumdulilah...
SO PLEASE DON'T BE MAD. I'LL MAIL YOU A COOKIE &
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You are a good one. You make your own definitions and ocme and tll me not to make them.
Nushuz is not fahisha. if nushuz were fahisha it would be called fahisha not nushuz.
And you do not know what nushuz means and you do notknow even what you read.
And since you do not know what you read, you figure tht I habe not seen or noticed the nushuz in 4.128.
Wrong, I discovered it long time ago. And there is a big difference between the situation in 4.34 and 4.128,.
In 4.128 it is speakinng about a couple, in 4.34 it speaking not about couples but about women. The part about the nushuz does not mention couples but women in plural, and the adressee as in all those ayas are the believers, men and women, the addresse are not any husbands which do not appear at all in the aya.
You may not want to arge about this, but you have argued.
You are dead afraid. ou are dead afeaid that God may hate women just as some males have hated women to have made this aya into whhat they say it is and which it is not. And you want to punish me for daring to contradict that, because you do not have the strength to oppose that nor know how to. So it is more omfortable to accept the statu quo and agree with the usual stupidy superposed on this aya.
Have it any way you like but you cannot impose you view on others. A view which obviously does nto ake you happy but whhich in spite of it you want that it comes out as the winner.
I won't play that game. The usual version is illogical and nonsensical and I will say it as may times as I am able to because it is a slander of God and a slander of women.
Salaam
Nooo?ooooooooooooooooooooooo
I wasn't speaking to you at all. I was speaking to inrankhwaja. He's the one who said nushuz was fashiha and was implying it's ok for domestic abuse if the wife is cheating.
That's why I got mad and brought up 4128. I never meant to I wasn't talking to you.
This always happens to me giveup giveup giveup
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I don't know why EdQ is always giving me cold responses but I don't really care.
Really? You don't care? Was that a freudian slip?
In any case, I am not sure why you are always finding faults in Islam and the Quran - and without any proof keep claiming that the Quran is corrupted - just because you don't like an aspect of it - my sincere advice to you would leave Islam and become an Ex-something if that makes you so happy (based on your posts) and if you feel so many problems with it.
Why be a part of something that tortures you to post so many cold responses and statements?
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I have already left the oppressive man made cult falsely named "Islam."
bravo bravo
As far the Quran, yes the essence still remains. I'm reading a very interesting thread on this forum suggesting the quran was never actually in Arabic. Perhaps I'll link it when I'm done reading what the conclusion was. Too bad those users are all unactive now.they were truly open minded.