Clearly Hateful postings - why?

imrankhawaja

To be fair, I was (and I'm still) disappointed to discover that fact.

fact huh?

dnt you know the difference between fact and theory..

reel

Either society is governed or there is anarchy. If one needs to be critical than it should be about the "way" of governance or perhaps even this thing called democracy - which has been purchased by companies and commercialized to the extent that it is about a rate of increase of interest rather than about the life of people around us - whether that is people who die of lack of heating themselves at home or are bombed in illegal invasions elsewhere.

One doesn't have to die from illegal invasion. One doesn't even have to experience an invasion. Anyone who follows Quran should know this by now. Hence, one can actually assume that the Muslim countries simply made their own hell.

Also, in relation to the actual discussion before your last post, the problem is not government but encitement to hatred and this leads to wars and murder.
So to have laws that help prevent hatred and violence is good.

Could you give us evidence that some old Quran follower here wanted to entice hatred for wars and murder?

Can you link to the Twitter terrorist threat where not action was taken?

I thought you knew this by now http//www.express.co.uk/news/uk/808077/Manchester-terror-bombing-explosion-attack-Ariana-Grande-manchester-arena-ISIS-twitter

When you justify the feelings of the "users" for bombing people, do you really try to justify bombing of helpless innocent people due to hatred?

As you have an insight into their feelings, what is their story or justification of bombing people?

I would like to ask you, do you actually follow Quran? Because when it is done everything starts to fall into place. It becomes easy to see why bad and good things happen. Bombing would have not been possible if the sectarians weren't hating each other's neighboring countries. Similarly, if those who are bombing actually used their brain they would have not been doing this. Both the groups have problem and are at fault.

It isn't a secret that the bombing is happening for the wealth of a few elites. It isn't a secret that ISIS is made by the west. But why was it so easy to make a violent group like that in the name of Islam? That's because sectarians do think the Prophet was violent and that since God said he was a great example in the Quran, every nasty thing Bukharian wrote about him is holy. Similarly, the average people in the west who support the bombing do not take time to wonder why these terrorist groups never attack Israel and how on earth it is possible for them to get expensive weapons.

Overall, it is the war between ignorant groups. They are not available for wisdom. This can be frustrating for many of those who understand the problem.

If you feel that Trump supporters are so upright that they need consolation, you are welcome to explain their psyche to those who don't understand.
Usually the alt-right community that adore Trump don't have any problems expressing their views about their hatred of non-whites but I am sure your take will be interesting.

Oh wait, did you want me to say violent/hateful stuff about Trump supporters? D

imrankhawaja

peace brother ,

what if i told you i had experience of jinn infront of my eyes more than one times..

and he informed me about the person who steal my cuz phone..
and he informed my uncle who steal his diamond ring..

i mean a person who was the medium between jinn and us..

and how can a person know my name my mother name , the purpose of visiting him , the name make and moodel of my mobile? the date and time of my mobile what i lose?

and moreover what it has to do with 14 48

God bless you

peace Anoushirvon,
https//zeyadetman.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/0843b-please_wait_by_naolito-d311p2z.jpg

EdQ

You are in complete confusion, my child.

If the truth leads you to use to call posters children, then I am afraid you should learn the truth.
I cannot do anything about your injured feelings just because the truth offends you.
What do you want me to say?
Perhaps "Ah..... there now... don't worry the lies are the truth?"

These countries are not in Hell because they have been invaded.
No, they have been invaded because they are in Hell.

So an aggressive group that illegally invades a sovereign nation, pillages the resources of a sovereign nation and murders its children and women....and men and implements a government that does it's bidding is angelic?
Wow. .... you really cannot see your hateful views can you?
You are saying that the current era of illegal invasions are ok because despite the fact that its is Europe and European-origin nations (white skinned people) who are invading non-European nations (mostly non-white nations) than you would prefer to see the white invaders as angels.
Perhaps you may be under the illusion that white skin leads to a superior race of angels and are covering this with thinking that these angels are ok because they are invading non-white "Muslim" lands?
This is so ludicrous its beyond belief and either you are really about hate or are about a parody that has gone badly wrong.

About Muslim countries, they are in Hell because since centuries, Muslims have been doing and continue to do exactly what is strictly forbidden in Quran

So by your definition, all countries are in Hell whether Europe or else where because no country is following the Quran?
Oh no.... I forgot you wish to focus on the so called "Muslim" countries like Saudi Arabia and the other where leaders like to keep their nations in permanent backwardness because they are funded by Western nations. I know you see my views as hateful because they challenge your awful views but think back to a week ago where Trump was ready with his begging bowl giving weapons to Saudi Arabia for billions - so that Saudi can murder indiscriminately in the Middle East so that no so called "Muslim" country can be allowed to come out of this hegemonic imprisonment by the West?

Following extremism, called Taghyia in Quran, (like Thamuds), whereas they were instructed to not do so

Extremism is not invading, murdering and stealing but your own definition based on race... wow....

Taking ulemas as arbabs, i.e. teachers of religion, besides the only Rabb, Allah.

And the rest of the world who like to advocate non-Islam based ideologies of race and superiority and invading to steal (whilst shouting Democracy-Hu-Akhbar) is very Islamic by your strange definition?

(Ulemas) Twisting the meaning of the words in Quran to create meaningless and stupid rituals salat, zakah, hajj, sujud, ramadhan, ...

Ignoring the meaning and the presence of the quran by non-muslim countries, by your definition, is worse and aking to being in hell? Let me guess, not if they are in European nations?

Giving credits to baseless says (hadiths)

giving credits to baseless histories (hadiths) is ok as long as a non-Muslim country fabricates its history by your definition - you really are incapable of seeing your polarized and extreme views and focus on a select group of people?

Declaring this is halal, this is haram in contradiction to Quran

Eating blood and swine is ok, because, let me guess you are a biblical Mullah (based on the parody website)?

Denying the signs of reality

Denying YOUR signs of reality? How do you know that is not just a bad nighmare?

Not using reason, especially to ponder Quran

How about not even reading the Quran as is done by the nations you imply are angelic? Shall I just guess???

8 ) Dividing into sects after having received knowledge

Let me guess those that you imply are "angelic" nations are ok in denying the knowledge AND dividing into sects, nationalities, groups
Probably a lot more to be added.

I am sure that a person who is polarized based on race will be able to continue this reasoning.

All of these lead to Hell.

So now you are saying that those who do this should migrate to hell?
Really?
So what about those who do this in Europe - or Paradise/Heaven as you would like to imagine?

By denying the signs of reality, the Muslims couldn't see that West was rising. By not using reason, they were not able to fill the technological and scientifical gap with West.
Therefore they ended being colonized and dominated.

So your lack of reason is leading you where???

You know, the Quran was written (or revealed to if you wish) by a Jew, indeed not a rabbinic Jew, but a Jew anyway.
A lot of verses in Quran are taken from esoteric jewish scriptures (midrashim) that even most of Jews don't understand.

This is reason?

If Muslims hadn't tried to hide this jewish origin of Quran, and invented stupid stories about Muhammad like slaughtering the Banu Qurayza tribe, or making Jews as disbelievers in the Fatiha, never would have Israel been created in 1947.

So you are here to justify Israel?
Why am I not surprised at your hateful views?
Or are you just trying to descend into a free-fall of hateful views as you want to be banned?

Thanks for the suggestion, but my goal on this forum is to talk about Quran.

So why so much hate and illogical views?

You seem to not understand what I said.

Whats the name of this large club that do not understand you? For the first time I may end up belonging to a club. wow.

I answered to you on the same level than your post that implied that West is responsible for the misfortune of Muslim countries.

I am sure you would like to blame your hatred on Muslims. I really feel sorry for someone who hates so much.

You qualified (and still do) my answer as hateful speech.
Admittedly, but then you do not realize that yours can also be qualified the same by your own standard. That's it.

I could have said this before, but dear sir, I really have no idea what kind of thing you wish to convey with your last random stitching of words.

I supplicate for you to God - sincerely.

EdQ

One doesn't have to die from illegal invasion. One doesn't even have to experience an invasion. Anyone who follows Quran should know this by now. Hence, one can actually assume that the Muslim countries simply made their own hell.

So someone who is attacked deserves it?

Could you give us evidence that some old Quran follower here wanted to entice hatred for wars and murder?

Could you give me evidence that I said a Quran follower entice hate for wars and murder?
Did you actually read my post about the HATE of the poster?
Try skimming back and re-reading

I thought you knew this by now http//www.express.co.uk/news/uk/808077/Manchester-terror-bombing-explosion-attack-Ariana-Grande-manchester-arena-ISIS-twitter

I don't read hateful newspapers like the Zionist Express - but what has this got to do with my post? Or is your idea for me to read someone else's views and respond to you?

I would like to ask you, do you actually follow Quran?

Ditto. By your logic.

Because when it is done everything starts to fall into place.

Like you have been saying those who are attacked, deserve to be attacked or deserve to be in hell?

It becomes easy to see why bad and good things happen.

You have just implied that those who get bad deserve it.

Bombing would have not been possible if the sectarians weren't hating each other's neighboring countries.

You mean bombing would not have been possible if some Western nations had not implanted puppet leaders to carry out their agenda against other local nations?

Similarly, if those who are bombing actually used their brain they would have not been doing this.

So the bombers are clever and the bombed victims are dumb?

Both the groups have problem and are at fault.

Is that a disclaimer to your above views that attacking nations is ok as they deserve it?

It isn't a secret that the bombing is happening for the wealth of a few elites. It isn't a secret that ISIS is made by the west. But why was it so easy to make a violent group like that in the name of Islam?

Where are most of those elites based? And what happens to the non-European "elites" like Gaddaffy or Sadam when they prove to be out-of-date?
And I guess the home grown non-muslim terrorists that you like to avoid to do any research on are secretly muslims despite their hatred for non-whites?

That's because sectarians do think the Prophet was violent

And you are sure you are not painting groups with a careless brush stroke, are you?

Overall, it is the war between ignorant groups. They are not available for wisdom.

This statement conflict with your earlier assertion that the attacked nations deserve it. Now I read in your views that those who fight back are just ignorant like the ones who attack them.

Oh wait, did you want me to say violent/hateful stuff about Trump supporters?

Jog me. Did you really just understand that after this (I am lost for words) .......... I guess we can call it a discussion....

huruf

The reason so many nich muslim people in muslim countries have been overwhelmed in the las 40 years is very innocent and very simple and lies not in a vice in their upbringing or ideas but in the easiness which which the unscrupulous have used what in fact is a great value to overrumple decent traditional or non traditional muslims. Muslims of may be 40 years ago and earlier were brought up in the belief in conciliation, in avoiding quarrelling, in jumping in whenever strife threatened to break p. I have been witness in more than one occassions where the heat, the tiredness or whatever pushed to people to quarrel violence automatically a crowd sprung up who with good words convinced each of the quarrelers to better behaviour. Women, men... all came up and tried in the best manner to make each of the quarrellers go their own way and avoid such a thing. Muslims were taught that traditionnally as a great value and they believed in it and mostly practiced it.
And then came a new breed of possessors of truth, be it muslim brotherhood, wahabis or whatever, founded and/or protected by the imperial Western powers who not only did not have any regard for that virtue, but quite the opposite, used it to their advantage. They found a population who hated quarrel and un prepared to face somebody who spat on that and was even ready, (only aparently) to die in the quarrel if that made them come on top. Precisely to avoid confronting others, quarrelling over this and that, traditional decent muslism were overrun by a wave that could not care less about real virtues and only wanted power, whatever little etty power they could snatch. The good muslims have been putty in their hand, not through their faults but through that virtue of conciliation.

I am soryry to say. I have seen that also in forums the overarching need of peae, or rather non quarrelling. Of course, they vultures of the new Islam have been able to do that with pooer innocent traditional Muslims,, when they face people like e and many of us who are converts or from other cultures, they bite in bone and they do find realquarrel and no easy points won.

I am sorry to see how "traditional Muslims" are considered guilty of their plights because they are attributed things that are not so. Many could and would have had societies where anybody could go about their own conception of faith and personal relitonship with God. I knwo women who 40 years ago bathed on the beach in bikini in Egypt, and now, like overwhelmely all Gyptian women are laways hijabed. I do nto mind any person dressing as he or she sees fit, but I know that in egypt the social pressure for hiyab, precisely because of those "modern muslims" who do not hesitate to boast condemnation about anything nobody has asked about and who obviously find in women their preferred victims, becuse another traditional virtue they do nnot have is gentlemanliness. They are real, vociferous pigs.

But please, those are the modern. and starting from the fact that never nowhere everybody has been abbsolutely good or bad, I take aception at branding Muslims, or muslims, wholesale as bad as they are being branded. They have been overrumpled by unscrupulous rats bred by the imperial special services and think tanks mostly.

I somebody or something would eliver most muslims of that plague they would be ever so grateful.

Salaam

reel

So someone who is attacked deserves it?

Did I say they deserved it? Try following the Quran. It will help you understand exactly how natural law works.

Could you give me evidence that I said a Quran follower entice hate for wars and murder?
Did you actually read my post about the HATE of the poster?
Try skimming back and re-reading

I haven't seen nonMuslims doing anything at this time. How about a link to threads of concern?

I don't read hateful newspapers like the Zionist Express - but what has this got to do with my post? Or is your idea for me to read someone else's views and respond to you?
Ditto. By your logic.

Actually, the newspapers picked up the news from angry people. When they saw his tweet they kept wondering how government failed to see it. It went viral. I was also one of those people. But instead of being angry, I was shocked.
The account now is suspended by Twitter.

Like you have been saying those who are attacked, deserve to be attacked or deserve to be in hell?
You have just implied that those who get bad deserve it.

brickwall

A doctor can tell a cancer patient that he has just 6 months to live. Does this mean the doctor is saying the patient deserves death?

For God's sake, apply Quran to your life and only then you will know how natural law works.

You mean bombing would not have been possible if some Western nations had not implanted puppet leaders to carry out their agenda against other local nations?So the bombers are clever and the bombed victims are dumb?

I told you once humans are connected to each other. One has to think about the innocent people when he decides to do something. In a group, the bad can affect the good and good can affect the bad. Bad will get bad. Good will get good.

Is that a disclaimer to your above views that attacking nations is ok as they deserve it?

Natural law????

Where are most of those elites based? And what happens to the non-European "elites" like Gaddaffy or Sadam when they prove to be out-of-date?

God is there. You can always and always prevent atrocity.

And I guess the home grown non-muslim terrorists that you like to avoid to do any research on are secretly muslims despite their hatred for non-whites?
And you are sure you are not painting groups with a careless brush stroke, are you?

brickwall
The root of the non-muslim terrorists and ISIS are same. They have similar views. The only difference is in their labels.

This statement conflict with your earlier assertion that the attacked nations deserve it. Now I read in your views that those who fight back are just ignorant like the ones who attack them.

Jog me. Did you really just understand that after this (I am lost for words) .......... I guess we can call it a discussion....

Whoa, I am not God. Who deserves what is not for me to think about. I can only send the victims prayer out of sorrow. I can wish for their well being. But it can get disapproved if some other thing is at work within the victims.

Try the Quran and you will know nobody has to be victim of bombing.

reel

I am getting upset at your last statement though.

I live in a very poor muslim sharia country.

Acid attacks, gang rapes, child marriages, wife beating, honour killing, terrorism etc etc you name it.

Whenever I tell muslims, let's change this, I get the exact same response "it's worse in other countries!"

End of convo. No drive to end the suffering. Oh well...I just say this to the people

1311 Allah will not change a nation unless they change themselves.

People must stop denying the truth. Yes west is bad. Yes jews plan. Yes they're are conspiracies to ruin us. But... that doesn't mean we are zero at fault at well. Ofc muslim countries are bad, they should accept responsibility as well. Maybe then we can progress inshallah

Anyway quite apathetic.
I want to cry when I think of my muslim country.
But slowly...I feel like people are realising that they need to change themselves. Yes, I dream and hope for it.

muscle muscle

1311 Allah will not change a nation unless they change themselves.

I feel your pain . It can be hard to see atrocity and not emotionally react to it at all. I witnessed many lives being destroyed by the sectarian teachings. But I know nothing is in our hand if they do not make changes.

Uphold the Quran dear so God can grant you refuge from the harsh environment. Don't fall for the threads in which the Book is questioned. Its true essence can only be felt when it is followed. You will surely see the signs and move towards peace.

EdQ

Did I say they deserved it?

"One doesn't have to die from illegal invasion. One doesn't even have to experience an invasion. Anyone who follows Quran should know this by now. Hence, one can actually assume that the Muslim countries simply made their own hell."

Why make a ludicrous statement like that if you don't mean it or will later deny it?

Why should the attacked people be labelled by you as having made their own hell - or deserving to be attacked because they made their own hell (by being invaded - please don't ignore that you are relating to the words of the racist poster who says Muslim countries are in hell).

Try following the Quran. It will help you understand exactly how natural law works.

You have not even kept track of the structure of your own words above and you are now implying that I am not following the Quran or do not understand it.
That is the argumentation of a a sure desperate path when someone's logic fails.
If your understanding is that Muslim countries "deserve" to be invaded (which according to a hater makes them Hell) then I really think you should get some accreditation before you "teach" anything to anyone.

I haven't seen nonMuslims doing anything at this time. How about a link to threads of concern?

You do not make sense. Please re-read what you actually said;

Could you give me evidence that I said a Quran follower entice hate for wars and murder?

Did you or did you not read my response??
Here it is again in case you missed it
Did you actually read my post about the HATE of the poster?
Try skimming back and re-reading

What exactly have you missed when your whole premise links in with the hate of that poster - a hate that put that poster on a watch list.
So what exactly is your point?
That you do not see the hate of that poster and mockingly you are trying to tell me that you cannot see any hate of any poster?
If this is a case then why was the hater put on a watch list?

If however, you really do not see the hateful posting then why does the content of your posting in relation to "Muslim countries being Hell" follow the hateful poster's desperate logic?

Actually, the newspapers picked up the news from angry people. When they saw his tweet they kept wondering how government failed to see it. It went viral. I was also one of those people. But instead of being angry, I was shocked.
The account now is suspended by Twitter.

You quote one of the most racist and anti-Muslim rags - The Daily Express - then you want me to read one of their hateful articles as if it is the truth and you want me to comment on it and you claim it affects your strange thinking.....

Wow.... why do you use the one hateful paper and support the one hateful poster...
Let me guess, you do not see any hateful paper and any hateful paper... Will that become the mantra of the day?

brickwall

I guess some people think that emoticons are meaningful. I don't in general, but if they did mean something, then does this mean that strange logic comes from banging one's head on the wall?

Or if I look at it from another point of view, doe it mean that someone is getting frustrated after using hateful "news" papers and hateful posters logic?

A doctor can tell a cancer patient that he has just 6 months to live. Does this mean the doctor is saying the patient deserves death?

You have made this statement in me disputing YOU idea that Muslim countries are hell and therefore deserve to be invaded to be hell.

Here is a question for you

How can you possibly, or even remotely compare medical scientific diagnosis to your subjective and VERY silly comparison to making or supporting a claim that Muslim countries deserve to be invaded and invaded countries are invaded because they are hell?

Do you accept you have made a mistake in this comparison?

Yours is a subjective view and you are comparing this to a scientific diagnosis of cancer?

For God's sake, apply Quran to your life and only then you will know how natural law works.

I have not idea why you are repeating this and making further assumptions that I do not understand the Quran or do not apply it according to your very strange and objectionable logic as is clear to view above.

Do you care to explain?

I told you once humans are connected to each other. One has to think about the innocent people when he decides to do something. In a group, the bad can affect the good and good can affect the bad. Bad will get bad. Good will get good.

Dare I say you are not sticking to your own logic.

You actually said "Bombing would have not been possible if the sectarians weren't hating each other's neighboring countries."

Please remember that you are justifying the logic that Muslim countries are invaded because as you say claim they deserve it - you are following the logic of the hater who is saying that Muslim countries are hell!

So you are now attempting to

Support a hater who has said Muslim Countries are Hell
Muslim Countries are in Hell because they deserve it because they do not follow Islam as you and the hater understand it (please check and the post that you are supporting is indeed here!)
Muslim countries deserve to be hell (invaded) because they are sectarians who hate each other.

Do you not see how convoluted this "logic" is?

Natural law????

You have stated that it is natural law to claim that

Both the groups have problem and are at fault.

This is AFTER you attempted to

Support a hater who has said Muslim Countries are Hell
Muslim Countries are in Hell because they deserve it because they do not follow Islam as you and the hater understand it (please check and the post that you are supporting is indeed here!)
Muslim countries deserve to be hell (invaded) because they are sectarians who hate each other.
Lets add a new point from you now
Claim this is natural law that both groups have a fault because Muslim countries are being invaded - and called hell by the hateful poster.

So my question to you is this all part of your made up natural law?

God is there. You can always and always prevent atrocity.

This statement from you does not make any sense as you have used it to comment on my assertion "Where are most of those elites based? And what happens to the non-European "elites" like Gaddaffy or Sadam when they prove to be out-of-date?"

I asked you this because after blaming the victims for being invaded and then saying its their fault as sectarians and then saying it is due to some sort of crazy natural law, you actually blamed the above 4 points on the "elites"

Are you trying to shift focus - or do you remember the premise of your argument which is highlighted in the above 4 points...

brickwall
The root of the non-muslim terrorists and ISIS are same. They have similar views. The only difference is in their labels.

you made a statement if I could remind you which was

But why was it so easy to make a violent group like that in the name of Islam?

You made this statement to justify your above 4 points - do you remember this?
Or are you trying to shift focus again?

So do you agree that your statement is NOT CORRECT where if I paraphrase you you say, ISIS and other terrorist movements are easy to make because of Islam?

My contention to this claim was that if in your worldview Islam makes ISIS then you are not correct because there are plenty of non-muslim homegrown terrorists.

Do you get the drift here?

Do you see that it is WRONG to simply shift the discussion and say that all terrorists share the same world view after having claimed that ISIS is easy to make in Islam?

Do you ever feel the need to say, hey I just made a wrong statement so I will not clarify it with a further shift from the original statement?

Try the Quran and you will know nobody has to be victim of bombing.

In the Quran there are people who make statements like the above and say, we would not have disbelieved had God not willed it. And God rebukes them by saying that they have not idea what they are talking about.

Your constant claim that you are the only one who understands the Quran and therefore it justifies your convoluted logic is patronizing and..... well plain wrong (for want or a selection of other words I could use).

But I guess your constant claim that Victims deserve bombing really matters to you and you are now trying to pin this on destiny. If that was the case you didn't even need to get out of bed this morning or reply to any of these posts.

As a matter of interest - and bringing this back home to the ground, are you trying to justify the bombing in Manchester with your thick brush strokes - because you are saying that those victims "didn't need to be victims of the bombing"?

If not, and I really hope not .......... for your sake........ please desist from making broad statements that do not make sense.

Please wish to carry on as I am not going to let you off lightly on these preposterous claims.

Now I am going to make an unsupportable claim (seeing as you have been doing it all day in relation to claims about victims of bombing and Muslim countries deserving to be invaded) - your posting MO looks similar to someone else. Its for me to know though.

Salam
Ed

Anoushirvan

peace brother ,

what if i told you i had experience of jinn infront of my eyes more than one times..

Peace Imran, I trust you that you have experienced something strong and I'm also 100% confident it has nothing to do with jinn in Quran.
I also trust what Quran says.

and moreover what it has to do with 14 48

Please read it carefully in Arabic, the translation you gave me is misleading.

huruf

While I do not deny that people must make an effort to change themselves in order for God to change something, I doubt that that covers everything.

Formany centuries the Roman empire, ruthless, vicious, slavist to the core, mysoginistic to the core, genocidal, etc.cet. ruled without hope for the peoples it enslaved. Today they are said to have civilised, great. So did they do what God did ask them to do? All the peoples destroyed by them were evil or did not do anything enough to deserve survival?

I doubt it very much.

I think God does whatever He wants independnetly of what the people do. What I mean is that if ibians or iraquians or Pakistanis or afghans, let alone Palestinians, have been inflicted with so much misery, it is nto necessarily because of their guilts, the same as Ayub suffered very bad experiences and it was not because he was guilty. Other prophets died without requital.

Being in a mess is not necessarily a proof or a token of guilt.

In fact, it may be the opposite. The ultimate act of faith in God's mercy, whhich is not necessarily due to us on earth as many people who die in misery can prove. Even those who die fighting in God's cause, like those two gentlemenn murdered when trying to defend two muslim women.

We must not fall into the trap of considering that what happens in this world a proof of perfect justice. God di not promise that at all. Whoever has done an atom worth of good will see it, and whoever has done an atom worth of evil will see it. He did not say before death.

Nations, peoples are finaly containers of distinct qualities which in an only person would not be possible, so they are worthy creations, an whatever is good in them will live on beyond. God inherits them.

That justice is in this world is an insulting mockery for many good people who have not known more than misfortune.

Also not to forget, when you mistreat people to the point that they are not better than rats, that is not the merit of the people but the "merit" of the torturers.

Salaam

imrankhawaja

Peace Imran, I trust you that you have experienced something strong and I'm also 100% confident it has nothing to do with jinn in Quran.
I also trust what Quran says.

peace brother ,
yes i also trust what quran says.
and how can you hundred percent sure its has nothing to with the jinn of quran? u must have some sort of evidence for that

according to quran there is a character ibless who is he?

Please read it carefully in Arabic, the translation you gave me is misleading.

how ?
you can share your interpretation if u have any (PLZ)

btw the next verse make it clear a bit more i think you also need to read carefully around the verses and full topic..

Jafar

Formany centuries the Roman empire, ruthless, vicious, slavist to the core, mysoginistic to the core, genocidal, etc.cet. ruled without hope for the peoples it enslaved. Today they are said to have civilised, great. So did they do what God did ask them to do? All the peoples destroyed by them were evil or did not do anything enough to deserve survival?

Yes the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Abassid Empire, Arab Caliphate, Mughal Empire, Mongol Empire etc.., no matter how ruthless and brutal they were are all performing what God HAS PLANNED THEM TO DO.

I think God does whatever He wants independnetly of what the people do.

Not truely 'independent'...
To be more exact, what people (or everything) do is exactly what God has willed it...

What I mean is that if ibians or iraquians or Pakistanis or afghans, let alone Palestinians, have been inflicted with so much misery, it is nto necessarily because of their guilts, the same as Ayub suffered very bad experiences and it was not because he was guilty. Other prophets died without requital.

Correct..
What Jesus and John do to deserve such horrible suffering?
Nothing wrong or horrible... yet they were all experiencing things which God has planned to be happening to them..

Nonetheless.. "Let Your Will be Done" -- saith Jesus..

Being in a mess is not necessarily a proof or a token of guilt.

True...

In fact, it may be the opposite. The ultimate act of faith in God's mercy, whhich is not necessarily due to us on earth as many people who die in misery can prove. Even those who die fighting in God's cause, like those two gentlemenn murdered when trying to defend two muslim women.

Everyone and everything is performing God's cause...

imrankhawaja

Yes the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Abassid Empire, Arab Caliphate, Mughal Empire, Mongol Empire etc.., no matter how ruthless and brutal they were are all performing what God HAS PLANNED THEM TO DO.

so who is to blame ?

its confusing ..are we just characters like a video game that God created for entertainment..
atleast in human video games there are chances and nobody get hurt and pain

EdQ

Yes the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Abassid Empire, Arab Caliphate, Mughal Empire, Mongol Empire etc.., no matter how ruthless and brutal they were are all performing what God HAS PLANNED THEM TO DO.
Not truely 'independent'...
To be more exact, what people (or everything) do is exactly what God has willed it...

Correct..
What Jesus and John do to deserve such horrible suffering?
Nothing wrong or horrible... yet they were all experiencing things which God has planned to be happening to them..

Nonetheless.. "Let Your Will be Done" -- saith Jesus..
True...
Everyone and everything is performing God's cause...

So would you, as one poster has already implied, go as far as saying the Manchester bombing victims deserved what they got as this was a plan of God?
I have heard some Catholic priests say this about people who I knew closely who died and it shocked me as we are supposed to care for human life and its sanctity.

I don't mean to suggest that you do, but your post comes hot on the heels of postings that were suggesting these kinds of things and I just wanted to be sure.

I responded to one of these posters before the posting that you responded to - and I quoted something from the Quran there. It was do with when the disbelievers said they would believe had God willed it (to justify their disbelief in Him and His message) and God retorted that they had no idea whatsoever they were talking about.

At the same time, I note the subtlety here, because elsewhere in the Quran, it says that whosoever was to die would get up and go to the places where they were to destined to die.
By this I simply take the meaning that we cannot out-do death and a fixed time and place has been set for all of us. In this I agree with many aspects of your posting.

amin

so who is to blame ?

its confusing ..are we just characters like a video game that God created for entertainment..
atleast in human video games there are chances and nobody get hurt and pain

Its better to see God to be running everything and not as a creator who has done his work and watching the show. Our will is encompassed by His will.
Events happen and we all could search for the reasons behind as per ones knowledge, we may get the truth or falsehood, so its better not to idolize(being closed) but to believe Him and be open.

Anoushirvan

If the truth leads you to use to call posters children, then I am afraid you should learn the truth.

Actually, I call you a child simply because you talk like a child.

You are saying that the current era of illegal invasions are ok because despite the fact that its is Europe and European-origin nations (white skinned people) who are invading non-European nations (mostly non-white nations) than you would prefer to see the white invaders as angels.

You are completely confused here color of the skin has nothing to do here.

My moral beliefs are not based on pity but strong minds vs. weak minds.
Strong minds, following the example of Dhul-Qarnain, have the right, and sometimes the duty to dominate weak minds.

Weak minds, those who think and behave like apes, pigs or cattle, or worse must expect ending up being dominated.
It is written in Quran.

So by your definition, all countries are in Hell whether Europe or else where because no country is following the Quran?

You are totally spiritually confused my dear child. Goal is not to follow Quran but to follow major ideas of Quran, mainly

a) do not follow path of Taghyia (extremism) and obscurantism
b) do not use constraints to people to follow your system
c) use reason
d) do not let priesthood have the hand on civil affairs (separate church from state), because they will say this according to God's will and that is not, without proof, and they will lead people to obscurantism.

These are univeral ideas that Quran is referring to when it says same revelation was sent to previous messengers.

All democratic nations apply these universal principles. Muslim countries, North Korea, and some others don't.

And when democratic countries give up these principles, especially the first and second ones, they fall in Hell as well.

I am sure that a person who is polarized based on race will be able to continue this reasoning.
So now you are saying that those who do this should migrate to hell?
Really?
So what about those who do this in Europe - or Paradise/Heaven as you would like to imagine?

Compared to Hell, everything else is Paradise in a sense.

This is reason?
So you are here to justify Israel?

Yes, I like Israel much more than Hamas or Muslim countries.

I supplicate for you to God - sincerely.

You actually don't, and you are not sincere.

Anoushirvan

peace brother ,
yes i also trust what quran says.
and how can you hundred percent sure its has nothing to with the jinn of quran? u must have some sort of evidence for that

according to quran there is a character ibless who is he?

Iblis is to jinns as Adam is to ins.

how ?
you can share your interpretation if u have any (PLZ)

btw the next verse make it clear a bit more i think you also need to read carefully around the verses and full topic..

Verse 14.48 says the land will be replaced by the contrary (ghayra) of the land. It doesn't say "by another one".

Same for heavens.

It has to be understood as current ins living in the land and current jinns living in the heavens (i.e. in the mind) will be replaced the contrary of what existed (at the time of Muhammad).

reel

I have not idea why you are repeating this and making further assumptions that I do not understand the Quran or do not apply it according to your very strange and objectionable logic as is clear to view above.

Do you care to explain?

Thank you very very much for asking this question. I am deleting my long reply to other parts of your post to focus on just this.
This world has some rules and Quran tells us how to abide by them so we may avoid dangers which of course can come in any way possible. I told you in another thread that we are all connected to each other. Today if I do something bad people around me even after being innocent will have to go down with me. The struggle can get worse if I was actually more powerful and God gave me the opportunities to avoid my bad deeds. This is not limited to Muslims or Muslim countries. All of us regardless of what we believe risk getting penalized equally when we fly high. We don?t need to physically commit a crime to make it happen. There is a reason why God told us to be genuinely good even in the heart. If you just follow the current story of our America you will see it screaming.

Even last year, people were busy hating on each other. Specifically, exmuslims were going around claiming that ISIS truly, madly, faithfully followed Quran and thus, they represented Islam. Then there was some hindu group who supported Trump while saying together they were gonna fight ?radical Islam?, but it seemed their main target was the Muslim population. Now Trump is in power. Some hindu guys were killed for being mistaken as ?Middle Eastern?. Other Indians complained about being stripped by airport security officials. And oh, one Syrian Christian supporter of Trump had to see her relatives being deported. As for exmuslims, most of them have changed their tone and are discouraging the other exMuslim Trump supporters from reducing the ?hate?. They know quite well that what they wanted now may simply end up punishing their innocent family members and of course, airport officials do not care about the word ?ex?. Same goes for Mr Sam Harris who just couple of years ago wanted Muslims to be profiled. Now there is a man in the office who dreams of that. But unfortunately, he hates the Jews also. Ironically, when everyone was busy ?fearing? and ?hating? ?Muslims? the natural law made sure to outsmart them with a real threat called Russia. The overall message of the Quran is that

Our ignorance can kill our own 6140
If we wish bad for someone it may just end up being bad for us. This lesson is clearly depicted in the story of Pharaoh?s wife. She prayed to God so she could be saved from her husband in 6611 . But it seems she didn?t give details of how. God did grant her safety from her husband, but in a condition she could not accept and thus she changed her tone.
If we plot then there might be just another plot coming behind us 830
There are many other variables in the Quran.

One does not have to be Muslim for it though. We know it because the west already has made some of those Quranic laws important part of their law allegedly without knowing! But yes, our senses and actions are all counted here. Time is less. We can't be late. Otherwise, we risk getting "penalized".

imrankhawaja

Iblis is to jinns as Adam is to ins.

hmm so finally u understand the difference between jinn and ins ..

Verse 14.48 says the land will be replaced by the contrary (ghayra) of the land. It doesn't say "by another one".

Same for heavens.

It has to be understood as current ins living in the land and current jinns living in the heavens (i.e. in the mind) will be replaced the contrary of what existed (at the time of Muhammad).

i asked you to provide the full interpretation , so that i test your method with cross referrence where quran use this "ard"

BTW thts how its started you decide to pick 14 48 but you ignored 21 104 and these are just two examples out of many for hereafter when you claimed this....
(plus Quran clearly says that Paradise is on Earth).

you still did not provide the evidence where did quran said paradise is on "earth" ..

1448 The Day the earth is replaced with another earth, as are the heavens,
and they will appear before God, the One, the Supreme

21104 On the Day when We roll up the heavens like the scroll of a book is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.

oh yeh i forget to mention what will happen when our sun will become a "red giant" after some billion years perhaps..
we know its light is due to a chemical reaction and one day the fuel will get finish ..