Ghusl in Quran
-
I'll try to explain in 443 first, it has es-salat too...
Word "we" after "hatta ta'lemoo ma teqooloone" (until you know what you're talking) is mostly rendered as "or"/"nor", which is false, and evident changing of Allah's words. "We" means "and" not "or".
Root "jeem-noon-ba" is about "going away", "creating distance of something". Word "junub" is a state of such a people, who're making a distance from something.
In this ayet we were told not to come close to es-salat while we're not able to think clearly. It can be due to intoxicants or some mental disorder in some moment. We should not come close to es-salat until
- we know what we're talking, and (not or)
- we cannot go away...
We cannot go away (create a distance) from the place where we got in that state (under an influence of something or temp. mental disorder). If somebody, for example is drinking in his house or in the bar and gets drunk, he should not leave that place... but there're further info in ayet.
... except we can leave as ones who're finding our way until we to ourselves (reflexive form of a verb gh-s-l) cover.
So, we can leave that place, only to go somewhere where we can cover our state. For example, to sober.
Water is not mentioned here, anywhere, so this is not about covering ourselves with water (ie. washing, bathing), but it can be if somebody can use water to sober up.
Later, we have water in this ayet and it's when we're with our wives, but it's not a state of "junub".
This (and illness and other states mentioned) all need water for "ghusl", so we have to cover ourselves with water after being with our wives and it means full body, because our full body is part of us. If we can't find water we can do what was said after.
Es-Salat is about making contact with others, getting/staying close with them, and we're forbidden to do so while we're not able to think clear.
In 56 we were told about what else we should do if we're going for es-salat and all what was said is about correcting our behavior and being pleasant and best possible with others. This also includes being dressed nicely and looking decent.
Qur'an is not about putting burdens on us, most of Kitab (Regulations, Prescripts) are what we would do even if we are not familiar with the Qur'an, if we're normal and not insane.
If a man is married and was with his wife and he couldn't wash himself for a while, he should know if he should wash his body, full or just a part or nothing. There's no need Qur'an to teach us about obvious. But, the Qur'an is to remind us and to make us sure about everything.
-
hmm so how you interpret the full verses. by this understandings.
it would be helpful if you share it here..
-
Language(s) en-nas are talking are projection of our world. Everything created is under "action-reaction" and "cause-effect" laws. So, words are states as causes and effects or they're (re)actions.
Something can be white, blue, big, small, pretty, ugly, fat... and it has its "motion" which is a set of its actions.
When Adem a.s. was asked about El-Esma', all of them, he was thinking about things and called them by their characteristics he saw. He gave them names from their characteristics. For this we need deduction, which melaiket (and all other jinn) don't have.
There's no word for "head" (one of words in 56 is translated like this), but there's a word for some state (khal) which can be prescribed to what we know as "head". That word (re's س can be used for head and all other things which have characteristic which that word describes.
I'm a human and I can be called insan, but I can be called by many other names, and none of them is exclusivelly for me. If I'm called insan it's because I have characteristic which word insan is describing. If, under some terms, I loose that characteristic I cannot be called insan.
If you wanna know what words in the Qur'an mean, you have to forget all you heard about them outside the Qur'an and to come to Qur'an only to teach its language (lisan). If you wanna know about any of the words from that or any other ayet I can try to help with what I know, but I cannot translate ayet in English, because, as you can see, my English dictionary is very poor. Even if you get any information from me you should check it in the Qur'an.
What can help you is that there's no synonyms in lisan of the Qur'an and one word has its unique meaning, as any of roots; one form (measure) has its meaning and all the rules are constant without any exception. Lisan of the Qur'an is not same as Arabic language.
-
tahhara or tatahhara mean indeed purify, but it is not necessary that purification be washing or bathing or showering it much more general on the one hand nd scpecific of the task we may have at hand.
Hisotrically junuban has been taken to mean something to do with sex. I disagree with that, I think aladin gets close to its meaning. May be a mental state, not necessarily drunkness where we do not concentrate on what we are doing, specifically prayers. Being distracted, junuban, does not help for prayers, we should capable of being inmersed in the communion with God.
In 5.6. itself it says to do the tayyammun for prayers if you do not find water, I guess washing should be sufficient for the purpose of prayers.
For the purpose of cleanliness could be something else, but for the purpose of prayers, tayammun which substitutes for washing should do. The object is to be in the best disposition for prayers not to pass a military review for leanliness, even if cleanlisness is always very much to be recommended for anything.
Salaam
-
i wonder whenever i ask to interpret the full verses (which contain complicated) meanings people ignore my request.. ?
in any case i request both of you to give your full interpretation of these two verses so that i can check that method . if you guys get failed in it, then i will understand that your understanding not getting fit with logic what else i can think..
What can help you is that there's no synonyms in lisan of the Qur'an and one word has its unique meaning, as any of roots; one form (measure) has its meaning and all the rules are constant without any exception. Lisan of the Qur'an is not same as Arabic language.
i disagree
i have more than one examples to give..
FOR ROOT ( )
this single root derived words in more than five "different" forms, interestingly in this sentence different is also a word derived from same root called "mukhtalif" in (arabic and urdu) both... as well as lisan of quran..FOR SYNONYM yes "lisan of quran" does use synonym look at this example..
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa infajarat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then vented from it (twelve springs)
idrib bi AAasaka al hajara fa inbajasat min hu = strike with your staff the rock, then gushed from it (twelve springs)you can always tell me the difference in these two occasion what i highlighted as GREEN confused
peace
-
if you paint in green your translation of those words you'll see the difference
you missed forms (measures) of words, which have their own meaning too, so the root has its single and unique meaning, as a measure... if you put some root in some measure you'll get new, single and unique meaning, but connected with both - root meaning and measure meaning, it can't be different from them
for example, Fu3uuL is a plural form of Fe3L, and all words in measure Fu3uuL are plurals of Fe3L, they can't mean anything else
or, if you add hemze (with elif) in front of any root you'll get a new root with opposite meaning
-
peace Aladin,
You said "if you paint in green your translation of those words you'll see the difference"
You have clearly missed the point with the example of 260 and 7160. Highlighting the translated words in green is completely irrelevant, because the translation is not the original Arabic. The point with this example is to show that two words occur in Quran and by using Quran and Arabic grammar (if you wish) you will not be able to determine any difference whatsoever in the meanings, i.e. you will not be able to confirm or deny they are a synonym (because their meanings overlap in classical Arabic dictionaries).
Of course, despite knowing this, one can still claim "no synonyms in Quran" but it is impossible to prove. I have no idea why anyone would base their method of interpretation of Quran on an impossible to prove theory, but that's just me. Of course, the degree to which you rely on such a theory, when interpreting Quran, would be minimal I'd imagine, but I could be wrong.
-
if you paint in green your translation of those words you'll see the difference
we are talking about " lisan of quran" and i gave you an example of synonym.. (burden of proof is your head)
its like
inbajasat is a synonym of infajarat same like vent is a synonym of gushsome interpretators used gush in both occassions ..
i think its not that hard to understand what i asked?
in any case i request both of you to give your full interpretation of these two verses so that i can check that method . if you guys get failed in it, then i will understand that your understanding not getting fit with logic what else i can think..
we will proceed our discussion after getting it done
-
I tend to think that indeed there are not real or absolute synonims in the Qur'an. I even think that there are no real synonimes in any language. Whenever a word is used that could be replaed by otheer words, there is always a reason why that word is chosen and not the other or any of the others. It may be a matter of personaly style IF what is being transmitted has not much imortance or only a part of it is of substance and most of it is not.
In a text like Qur'an, i doubt there are real synonims. God is not casual. Speaking of synonims is like saying that the universe was created by chance or similar things. Nothing happens by chance but through causes. And the words in the Qur'an have a reason. That we may be unable to see it is no reason to assert that it does not matter or that writing one word or the other would be the same.
Salaam
-
peace Aladin,
You said "if you paint in green your translation of those words you'll see the difference"
You have clearly missed the point with the example of 260 and 7160. Highlighting the translated words in green is completely irrelevant, because the translation is not the original Arabic. The point with this example is to show that two words occur in Quran and by using Quran and Arabic grammar (if you wish) you will not be able to determine any difference whatsoever in the meanings, i.e. you will not be able to confirm or deny they are a synonym (because their meanings overlap in classical Arabic dictionaries).
Of course, despite knowing this, one can still claim "no synonyms in Quran" but it is impossible to prove. I have no idea why anyone would base their method of interpretation of Quran on an impossible to prove theory, but that's just me. Of course, the degree to which you rely on such a theory, when interpreting Quran, would be minimal I'd imagine, but I could be wrong.
I'm not familiar with words "vented" and "gushed", but I see that letters are not same, as in words used in ayets. If those words are synonyms then you can use "vented" or "gushed" as translation of both ayets... can you? Synonyms are words which can be used instead of other words without losing the meaning, and in any sentence.
Btw, what is "peace" many of the people are using here? Is it from 1968?
-
I tend to think that indeed there are not real or absolute synonims in the Qur'an. I even think that there are no real synonimes in any language. Whenever a word is used that could be replaed by otheer words, there is always a reason why that word is chosen and not the other or any of the others. It may be a matter of personaly style IF what is being transmitted has not much imortance or only a part of it is of substance and most of it is not.
In a text like Qur'an, i doubt there are real synonims. God is not casual. Speaking of synonims is like saying that the universe was created by chance or similar things. Nothing happens by chance but through causes. And the words in the Qur'an have a reason. That we may be unable to see it is no reason to assert that it does not matter or that writing one word or the other would be the same.
Salaam
I agree with you, and for any language known to me. Synonyms can be used but only with description, as "house" and "bulding where people live"... similar word "home" would be "building where families live". They're similar but not same. In the Qur'an words such as "daar" and "beyt" are as those English words.
Most of the words of lisan of the Qur'an cannot be translated 11 to any language and others cannot be translated with 1 single (English or any) word, and for some it's hard to translate them with many lines of text, if we wanna tell of what that word means.
Btw, what is Salaam?
-
peace centi50
i dnt know if i understood you correctly what u are asking?
anyways this word appears only twice in quran.. and you gave both of the refferences.. according to the sentence structure its appears a state or stage when u finished sexin urdu language the same word we used as " halat -e-janabat" when somebody finished discharging and he is in a condition without bath.
although this root got multiple meanings.. depend on the usage of sentence structure..
like from same root words like
"junoob"=south and
"janib"=towards a side or directionexactly these words are also found in urdu with similar meanings.. depend on usage..
let me know if thats what you were asking?
Thank u immrankhawja for your answer. Yes that was what I was asking
-
Does the Qur'an require us to perform full body bath after sex
Thank you brothers
Thank you for posting this!
I had similiar question. I understand we need to bathe..i mean who wouldnt want to? but what about the ritualistic steps during the bathe? See video below. Is all this from hadith? And if you don't do ghusl exactly like this then you are still considered dirty??
And God wont accept your prayers?https//youtu.be/PEgUbg9YuCA
-
Before asking the question, have you read Quran 56 and 443?
If so, the answer is obvious.Yes i have. Everything seems obvious when i read Quran but then i go into the real world and begin to doubt myself. Its constant struggle to drown things out and not be influenced by your peers and family
-
its interesting to know how language give birth to words and new words ..
in pubjabi language when some body have to take bath people use a word let me take a "taree"
i asked my uncle what this "taree" means he say its mean to take shower/bath..
i said why "taree" he said people who used to swim in the river or lake its called "terkai" from that word a short word evolved what we say as "taree" on other words "teraki" means swimming not bath/shower..
we must have to change all the language of punjabi every single word how its derived make no sense at all...
even in my language urdu i get confuse when same word for bath people use
one say "naha lo" 97 % people used it as taking bath
one say "ghusal lo" only 3 % people used it as bath (which seems more accurate for bath as it derived from arabic)
both are correct usages and unnderstood by same principal regardless of meanings of words..both have same meanings but different drived forms from language to language..
NOTE
with this simple question people understand what i am trying to say
what is the word for "bath" quran used in its language ? (not arabic)this book is from God and contain words on the excellency of literacy at high level ,
from same book people drive their grammer and replace their baseless words in to more appropriate manner..
example is the birth of urdu language that replace lot of words from arabic grammer and persian grammer to replace words of hindi and sanskrit
but we still use those hindi words in our daily language still after 200 years.. it will be in the language untill the language will alive.. -
I have not understood you, but I appreciate your time imrankhawaja
thanx brother,
i just write that post for you even i have to go somewhere..read it two three times and let me know what is your native language i will ty to post you next example in your own native language ..
in short what i ask ,
did quran used any word for taking shower?
if it is then what is the word in quran used as taking shower/bath?(it has nothing to do with what arabic , punjabi ,persian or urdu speaker using for taking bath)
becoz the living arabic is totally different than the language of quran its a well known fact.(keeping this thing in mind read my post again)
and if you are just wasting my time "then God bless you"
