Greetings in the Name of Jesus Christ.

Wakas

peace Pietstryd,

Note that majority of the members of this forum follow a Quran based islam, not Traditional Islam, which is what you seem to be referring to (e.g. referring to the Traditional shahada, which does not exist in Quran).

So before entering into discussion, please ensure you have understood the difference and factor that into your discussion.

And lastly, I do find your so-called "acid test" rather nonsensical. Firstly, you assume God's name is YHWH. An assumption. Secondly, you take a test/criteria from The Bible and claim this is a true test to determine if someone is a prophet or not, again another assumption. And last, but not least, you attach significance to a so-called name, who cares about a so-called name of God? Whatever sounds one uses to verbalise the entity referred to is completely irrelevant. What does it change in practical terms and salvation terms? What difference is it if God's name is "Jimmy"?

This is why the wisdom of The Quran shines through. I recommend you read 17110 and reflect upon its message.

Pietstryd

go to prophets and messengers, I opened a thread there to have Muslims to prove that Muhammad was a prophet of YHWH.

A_Submitter

Salam,

Here I have some verses for you, they are eye-opening.

4171
O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system, nor say
about God except the truth. Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than
a messenger of God and His word, which He cast to Mary, and a
Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do
not say ?Three.? Cease, for it is better for you. God is only One
god, be He glorified that He should have a son! To Him is all that
is in the heavens and the earth; and God is enough as a Caretaker.
4172
The Messiah is not too proud to be a servant to God, nor are the
angels who are close to Him. Whoever is too proud from His
service, and is arrogant, then He will gather them all towards
Him together.

good_logic

Peace Pietstryde .
Thank you for your post.

You have assumed I am a "Muslim",however you take it to be a "Traditional Muslim".
Let me first correct your assumption,I am a "Muslim"(In submission) to GOD Alone. I do not have any men s religion. There are no religions,there is only the submission to GOD s system. GOD never authorised a Jewish or Christian or Muslim or any other religion. They are inventions by humans in my opinion..

Now, I like to carry on discussing with you your views,with sincere intention and friendship, and I would like you to read some of my views to give you an advantage and to prepare,here they are

http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/continued-1-more-topics-from-good-logic/

http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/continued-2-more-topics-from-good-logic/

http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/and-more-topics-from-good-logic/

Hope to hear from you again.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

@Pietstryd welcome

Not all translations of the Qur'an are equal. Did you read the same translation ten times, or different translations? If you had questions or concerns, what are they?

Here are multitudes of translations side by side

http//www.islamawakened.org/

Here are some resources to help you in your studies

The Grounds of Christianity Examined by Comparing The New Testament with the Old

http//www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/15968

The Skeptics Annotated Bible

http//skepticsannotatedbible.com/

The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction?

http//www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html

Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus

http//www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

It really doesn't much matter what "religion" a person chooses so long as they are a monotheist and do good works.

569 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

Which leads me to ask--why believe in any form of Trinity? Of course you are free to believe and worship as you will...

Deuteronomy 64 Hear, O Israel The Lord our God is one Lord

Echad, Yachid, and the Oneness of God

http//www.onenesspentecostal.com/echad.htm

There are informative articles on the front page, and plenty of folks in the forums that can discuss topics and answer questions as well.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Comrox

Welcome to the forum!

imrankhawaja

My reason to be on this site is solely to understand why any intelligent person would believe in Islam.

peace
welcome to the forum brother

every intelligent person always try to be a peacemaker . selecting a system other than peace(islam) is not intelligence..
read 262 for more details(the minimum universal based criteria )

your assumption about quran and bible can be tested .. under the logical lens of statements from both scriptures
check the scientific statements
check the logical arguments
check the prophecies
check the mathematical errors/contradictions

then compare both scriptures

God bless you

Pietstryd

Greetings and Peace, all group

@Pietstryd welcome

Not all translations of the Qur'an are equal. Did you read the same translation ten times, or different translations? If you had questions or concerns, what are they?

Here are multitudes of translations side by side

The Skeptics Annotated Bible

Ouch, now just look at how you destroyed your Quran!

http//www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/

Now, dont you think you made one big error in consulting an atheist on what the Bible says?
Did you see that he is also talking a lot of things bad about the Quran?

Come on, admit that you were not so clever in using "the sceptics annodated Bible!"
rotfl
D ;D

hanslan

I dont believe Muhammad was a prophet of YHWH, and I dont believe the Quran was a revelation from God at all. Yes if referring to YHWH. YHWH was a response to moses question on behalf of his people, and Im speculating that the receiver (moses people) did not like the response and made it into a holy saying. Every time I read this passage in the bible it sounds like a cynical response to a silly question.

I am of opinion that Islam is the anti-Christ. Yes, christ is not god or lord of the universe in Quran

I studied Islam with an open mind, and found that it can not compare with the teachings of God in the Bible. There are some consistency

I also studied all religions on earth from the ancient to the latest. I read the Book of Mormon, the Jehovah's Insight and all their dogma, the Bagiva Gita, Upanishard, creation epoch of Babilon, Gilgamesh epic, Egyptian book of the Dead, and many more. excellent!

I am not a Pastor, preacher, and have no theological education. Actually, I am not tertiary educated at all. Great!

Greetings in the Name of Jesus Christ. Self appointed representative?
!

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Ouch, now just look at how you destroyed your Quran!
Now, dont you think you made one big error in consulting an atheist on what the Bible says?
Did you see that he is also talking a lot of things bad about the Quran?

Come on, admit that you were not so clever in using "the sceptics annodated Bible!"
rotfl
;D

True gold fears no fire. Answering questions and verifying things serves to strengthen a position, not weaken it. There are refutations provided on the site as well. The links were provided for your own edification...if you can't gain anything from them for yourself, then that is your failing.

No one belief has a monopoly on truth. To exclude wisdom from any source, whether they be an atheist or agnostic or polytheist or even a Satanist is ignorant.

The links provided critically examine Scriptures in their own light.

I'm well aware that Skeptics Annotated Bible also has Skeptics Annotated Qur'an and Skeptics Annotated Book of Mormon. I've read in all parts of the website. Some of the refutations are informative.

You might not be so casual in your dismissal of knowledge if you were actually interested in it.

4516 And We had given the Children of Israel the Book, and the judgment, and the prophethood, and We provided them with good provisions; and We preferred them over the worlds.
4517 And We gave them clarity in the matter, but then they disputed after the knowledge had come to them, out of jealousy among themselves. Your Lord will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding everything that they have disputed.
4518 Then We have established you on the path of things; so follow it and do not follow the desires of those who do not know.

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

shad

hi Pietstryd

Glad to see you here seeking answers to your questions. I will not go into why one religion is better than the other because I believe that none of the so called holy books encouraged a 'religion'. Abraham did not know anything about Judaism, or Christianity or Islam or any other religion for that matter. He was taught 'monotheism' and since God has been teaching the same thing through Torah, the Bible and the Quran. Moving forward, Moses knew nothing about the Judaism or the synagogues. Jesus knew nothing about Christianity or the churches. Similarly, the prophet of 'islam' knew nothing about the religion of islam or the mosques.

All of these prophets were asked to promote 'monotheism' and not any religion. Unfortunately, after the death of the respective prophets, the ides of religion was invented by the people and their holy books mistranslated and misunderstood.

The Arabic words 'allah' is also misunderstood. Moses, Jesus or Muhammed, did not know the word 'god'.While some have tried their hardest, for centuries, to turn the creator of the universe into an Arab God, others, too, have attempted to transform Him into an Anglo-Saxon male. The former ignored the fact that the languages of many nations who received God's message in their own language did not contain the word ?al-lah?. The latter ignored the fact that Jesus or (J)esu(s), never uttered the English word ?God,? but referred to his Lord with Hebrew or Aramaic words such as Eli, Eloi, Elahi, or Ellohim (Mark 1534), which are almost identical to corresponding Arabic words.

The Old Testament lists several verses containing the attributes of ?Gracious? (Rahman) and ?Merciful? (Rahim) as used in the Quran Exodus 346; 2 Chronicles 309; Nehemiah 917, 931; Psalm 1038; Psalm 1165; Joel 213; Jonah 42.

I also noticed that you mentioned that Jesus was not a 'muslim'. Here is another Arabic word that is never translated but it should be. It is not a proper noun.

The word ?muslim? is of the form 'muf?il' and comes from the Arabic three-letter root ?SLM?. In Arabic, the word ?salaam? from the paradigm of fa?aal means ?peace?. The words ?muslim? and ?salaam? have a straightforward relation like the relationship between other words of the form muf?il and fa?aal. Words of the form muf?il have the meaning of ?maker of fa?aal?. For example, ?salaah? means goodness and ?muslih? is the maker of goodness, and ?islah? means ?making good?, ?najaah? means success and ?munjih? means the maker of success, ?injah? means ?making success?, ?fasad? means corruption and ?mufsid? is the maker of corruption and ?ifsad? means ?making corruption?. By the same token, ?salaam? means peace and ?muslim? means the maker of peace, in other words a ?peacemaker? and It follows that ?islam? means ?making peace?. (No, ?islam? does not mean submission and ?muslim? does not mean submitters.)

The word 'muslim' simply means that he is a peacemaker. In fact, the concepts of peace, peacemaking, and peacemakers are mentioned no less than 450 times in the Bible. For example, there are several prominent mentions of peacemakers (Arabic ?muslimeen?) in the Bible

James 318
Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

So, was Jesus a peacemaker (muslim). You bet ya. Unfortunately most of us misunderstand the word 'muslim' just as we misunderstand the word 'Christian'.
You can read the Quran with 30 different translation, but you will not get the gist of the message. STUDYING THE HOLY BOOKS WILL help you understand it.

I took courses in Old and the New testaments in collage but it was not until after i started to study them (which is impossible to do in one semester) then only I began to understand them.

I have been studying the Quran for the past 8 years, and I am just beginning to understand that it is not a book of religion but it lays out a way to an opulent and peaceful life. The Quran says this had been given to us in Torah and the Bible and nothing new is being presented here. The Quran only confirms the Torah and the Bible as the word of God.

The mainstream islam is not according to the Quran.

Man_of_Faith

The reason why people say "In the name of bla bla" is because they misunderstand the Semitic 'Esm" word which does not translate as "name", like an identification. If you say "b'esm + name" you basically say "in the spirit of + name", so those who think they say in the name of Jesus for example are to say "in the spirit of Jesus", i.e. in his spirit's way. This is likely why religious scholars later misinterpreted it as that you go in his name (physical) rather than spirit (abstract/mental).

Any wise person is spiritually seeking to be like Jesus, but that does not mean they lift him to an idol which is clearly against the original directives.

Be well
Qarael Amenuel

Betterlife

Are you serious? Is this a serious post?
So you reject islam because of the fact that we use Allah ( arabic meaning for god) instead of YWYH?

Hassan_Sabah

James the brother of Christ and the Qumran community totally destroys your false pretense. If you are sincere I urge you to look at the early vibrant community of men women and children and what they believed. Just look at Acts and how Paul is first summoned by James and the Jerusalem Church then is almost killed by the Israelites but for Roman intervention (pointing toward the fact he was a citizen of Rome).

If you really care about Jesus don't you wonder who ACTUALLY continued his ministry? It certainly wasn't the rock (Peter)

Hassan_Sabah

Learn something from the elders https//m.youtube.com/watch?v=JxDEzmUAbp8

good_logic

We do not want people to go to hell.
We want people to say the hell with whatever takes to hell.
More,more of the things that make people miss hell or at least barely miss hell(That close to it).
Hell itself does not want anyone to go to hell.
That allegoric description of hell in Qoran is "horrendous". It frightens me!
GOD bless.
Peace.

TheNabi

Peace

I wonder how long I will be allowed to remain on this site.

So long as you're not itching to break the rules. Welcome.

Joe

owlwithbow

Hi all Muslims on this forum.
I am from South Africa and are a Christian Protestant believing in the Trinity.
I visited this site numerous times, and decided to join in on the dialogues.
I believe in the Bible, and the Trinity.
I dont believe Muhammad was a prophet of YHWH, and I dont believe the Quran was a revelation from God at all.
I am of opinion that Islam is the anti-Christ.

I studied Islam with an open mind, and found that it can not compare with the teachings of God in the Bible.
I read the Quran more than 10 times from cover to cover, as well as the concise correct hadith from Al Bukhari.
I read the Bible more than 15 times and summarized it.

I also studied all religions on earth from the ancient to the latest. I read the Book of Mormon, the Jehovah's Insight and all their dogma, the Bagiva Gita, Upanishard, creation epoch of Babilon, Gilgamesh epic, Egyptian book of the Dead, and many more.

I am not a Pastor, preacher, and have no theological education. Actually, I am not tertiary educated at all.

My reason to be on this site is solely to understand why any intelligent person would believe in Islam.

I wonder how long I will be allowed to remain on this site.

Greetings in the Name of Jesus Christ.
!

I believe in the Quran because a prophecy that came true. Read 5533, you read about humanity going into Heaven. Open the tv, and watch some NASA videos.

I don't believe in ahadith/narrations which are being said in name of a person.

And i also believe in the Gospel, and the Psalms and the Tora etc. and i am also trying to find the Truth in eastern religions like Hinduism and Buddism etc.

But i reject Catholic Trinitarian doctrines, and i reject the Talmud, and i reject false Idols etc.

I read the Gospel often. Do you know any Greek? Or are you reading a translation?

Zulf

Greatings all,

People don't seem to be able to tell the difference between 'know' and 'believe'.
Religion (all religions) is all about believing and believers.
Simply, when you don't know, then you believe.
It's would be better to admit not to know, because then you will be open.
Once you believe, you pretend in front of yourself that you know, while you actually only believe, and doors close.
We know what we know, and we don't know what we don't know.

All problems of the world are of a two-fold cause

We believe (i.e. we don't know, but claim to know)
We identify with our beliefs (because we have no clue what we are)

Then our minds, in an attempt for self-preservation, clash with anyone who has a different belief.

Religions are almost nothing but belief.
Honestly, how much do we really KNOW about what our religions teach? How much?