If we deny the hadiths, how do we know that the Quran we are holding in our hand
-
How did you read it like that ? My god is the silent subtle voice that I often ignore when I sin. And it is the voice that dictates the right thing regardless of the outside world, or even how I feel.
I do not pray, worship, or hope for an outside god to make it rain on me. My god is closer to me and If I do not follow god I can only expect a negative outcome.
A slight difference in definition doesn't hurt, you don't have to try prove that someone is completely wrong and that you are completely right. In fact all the talking adds nothing.
-
Still talking about the delusion of a god Cerberus, a god is a separation, there is none, in a fractal structure you contain the whole yet are within the whole, there is no other, the single consciousness is fractal in magnitude, so you presently perceive at a low level of fractal magnitude, if you master emotion through the skill of reasoning and develop them soul it will expand joining companion souls to it and you would expand into a larger fractal form.
Talking adds nothing if you have a belief, that you hold no matter what understanding is presented, all that refutes a position is rejected out of hand and never considered, that is the nature of false perceptions, people will often die for false perceptions, there are many false perception, religions, corporation, government, monarchs etc. are all false perceptions people invest deeply in, they give worship and adoration to, and no matter what exposes these false perceptions they will hear nothing, see nothing, accept nothing that would alter that false perception.
-
Peace Rekkd.
So actually I do not care about the truth? So what is the truth according to you?
Or do you mean you have decided that we throw all the ideas out there that have anything to do with religions! We throw the baby with the bath water?
Ok ,I might agree with you that all the religions are false,but I disagree that no truth can be found in any of their contents.
And I agree with you that the majority of how Qoran is interpreted by " Traditional Islam" is completely wrong and bias.Now, do you mean I did not ask all the questions you are asking and more?
Or do you mean I cannot answer your questions?( By the way this I agree with)
Or do you mean I follow other religions? Which one?
Or do you mean I do not read your posts properly ? Or all the members here?I have been where you are and I went through what you are going through. I am not saying I understand how you feel,but I am saying I searched/asked/studied/got confused/hit my head against the wall many hundreds of times/despaired of others views...And so on...
I have found there was no answer out there for me from anyone human!!!
There is no answer for you as long as you "rely" on those who are like you to find you the answer.
As long as you do not adjust your attitude and dig deep inside you for your true instinct,you will miss your answer.As long as the connecting thread to your Creator is broken,you will never find the answer. The message s main aim is to reconnect to your Creator,your true power will start to recharge. Then ,the change in attitude and direction may take you on the "true" journey.
You are right ,I have not got your answer. However the truth is neither any of us has the answer for the other. Each must search properly for their own answer. Or otherwise. Freedom of choice dictates that you choose and make the decision.
No,brother,I am not fooling anybody by declaring openly to all readers here and elsewhere that the "deen" is a personal relationship between each individual and the Creator to be taken by choice and carried forward in total trust all the way to all the answers.
Then only the Creator will judge between all of us in complete fairness and justice . Here ,in this life, our sincerity and efforts are key.
Again best of luck to you in your journey.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
@Abdunur, perhaps my terminology and definitions aren't as elaborate as yours, but I agree with what you are saying.
For me, "to master emotions through the skill of reasoning" is to separate your true self from the illusion of this world thus start seeing things for what they really are, shift your will to what is true.
You have made an IF statement "if you master emotion" as you said, and this is the challenge of the will.
I have fairly enough knowledge of myself that talking adds nothing to the challenge of MY will. That's the only thing that I meant.Yes, the truer you are the closer you get to the source of all consciousness. Guidance. Which is the essence of everything. Yes yes... yes.....this is not news to me.
Can't you find a common ground and build up a fruitful discussion ? Instead of looking at subtle differences to prove others to be completely ignorant ?
-
Peace Cerberus,
the very first step is to recognize your true nature, from that you can develop the skill of reasoning, no one can reason without learning the skill, the easiest method is to use the trivium, reasoning is the foundational tool to establish belief, for example does any evidence at all exist to support the idea of a god entity, the answer is always no, reason would then ask if no god what is the nature of reality.
I do not wish to come across aggressively or arrogantly, if I do it is not intentional, I am not trying to be abusive, I am simply trying to help.
The second thing to master the self is to understand and practice virtues, virtues used to be know by certain cultures but religions and hierarchy (because hierarchy removes community) remove virtues, if you master virtues you create a state of innocence of the self, and this is the goal.
I believe we have some common ground, you understand many things correctly already.
-
for example does any evidence at all exist to support the idea of a god entity, the answer is always no, reason would then ask if no god what is the nature of reality.
There is not at all any evidence in support of reality either. You cannot prove existence of yourself, just like you cannot prove existence of God.
-
Where do you come up with such rubbish Makaveli, I perceieve reality, reality is simple thought, in that perceptual reality no evidence of a god exists, the proof is in the reality of my own consciousness, I am aware, and interactive in perception.
now let assume you are also self aware Makaveli, in your perceptual awarness what evidence exists to show a god entity exists?
-
Where does "reality" come from? What is the original cause of all that we call "reality"?
How would an animal or a tree perceive " reality"? What is consciousness? How do we know that is all there is?
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Where do you come up with such rubbish Makaveli, I perceieve reality, reality is simple thought, in that perceptual reality no evidence of a god exists, the proof is in the reality of my own consciousness, I am aware, and interactive in perception.
The way you percieve reality is but your own personal world, there are no two people in the world that would percieve what they call 'reality' in the same manner. What reality do you percieve? What proves that your reality is 'real'? How can you rely on your perception? Again, what is your evidence of your own existence? How can I prove someone else that I have spoke to a person named Abdun Nur? Even if I make a screenshort of our dialogue and make a link, that is mareley a conclusive evidence, that we might accept, but that is not absolute evidence. Not to mention you are but the code on this forum, but even if I meet you in person that is not absolute in terms of your existence, which could be proven outside of our conclusive 'perception' of society.
-
Where does "reality" come from? What is the original cause of all that we call "reality"?
How would an animal or a tree perceive " reality"? What is consciousness? How do we know that is all there is?
GOD bless.
Peace.Very interesting question indeed! Salam group
-
Peace Makaveli.
Some may keep talking/theorising/ and even going as far as to persuade those who are disconnected from their Creator like ,quoteThe purpose of our collective existence is to steadily increase our conscious awareness until we can master our ability to develop sapience, the ability to make correct conscious choices, utilizing proper discernment, to bring about positive effects, conditions, and relationships in our world. This process is the goal of the spiritual journey and the manifestation of the Will of Creation. It is the Evolution of Consciousness.
At the current time in which we live, humanity has arrived at a critical point in this evolutionary journey. Human beings simultaneously possess (perhaps for the first time in our existence, to this degree) the ability to create a veritable paradise on Earth - in which the suffering of the beings of this world could be virtually eliminated once and for all - and the ability to destroy not only all human life, but the lives of every living thing on the entire planet. One situation is miraculously promising, the other incredibly horrific.
The fact that they both exist in simultaneous juxtaposition with each other certainly makes the time in which we are living quite interesting and exciting.
While these two potentialities are competing with each other, so in fact is the increase and decrease in human Consciousness. We are seeing Consciousness growing with amazing acceleration and in greater numbers of human beings than at, perhaps, any other time in history. Side-by-side with this process, we are also seeing the Consciousness or more people hijacked, shut down, and quite possibly destroyed by the forces of Fear and Evil than at any other time in history as well.
What is required to transcend the conditions of suffering in which we currently find ourselves is an increase and acceleration of this process of conscious awareness on the level of the individual, and then on a global level. This global awakening will only take place once enough individuals have made enough conscious change within themselves in order for these energies to spill over into the collective Consciousness of humanity, upon which time this change will accelerate even faster and become habituated.
While it is true that we are going through a dark period before this light of awareness emerges in its full presence, I prefer to see the situation as hopeful rather than bleak. More and more people are becoming Conscious, Aware, and AWAKE. The change in Consciousness, this paradigm shift, IS happening, and nothing can hold it back, for it is our birthright.What these people and scores of others are not aware, is that Qoran is telling them /giving them a better alternative .
Qoran is asking each individual to connect to the Creator to create an even better world .
Never mind though,we will have to yield even if it takes GOD to interfere at the end.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
As we share the same perception Makaveli, we are a single consciousness, as we are distinct we are fractal forms of that consciousness, sharing a perception does not mean each soul apprehends, by means of the senses or of the mind, that perception as equal, the intelligence, imaginative capacity, cultural attitude and other factors make that apprieciation of perception varied.
Proof is in the perception, the act of testing or making trial of anything within perception proves it, as it is a shared reality, we share that perceptual result, this creates proof.
Consiousness does not always mean soul, everything is dichotomous, therefore if their are fractal souls in perception there are as a remainder of the 99.999r% at the other end of the dichotomy soulless forms, these soulless forms are psychopathic, as souls are empathic, as you descend into lower fractal forms of consciousness you would have far less conscious souls, it is in density of perception we grow.
Where did everything begin?
Everything is held within a dichotomy of 99.999r% to the remainder, this can alter if circumstances allow, as all is infinite, even the remainder could become infinite, this shows the nature of consciousness, there is pure nothingness in dichotomy to all thought. All is the thought of consciousness.
Everything pours from nothingness, thought is like the sound breaking the silence, or the light breaking the blackness, examine the patterns of the percieved reality to know the nature of that underlying reality.
As for what the Qu'ran says, the book is so corrupted through translation, not even the Arabic text has escaped unaltered, that it is very hard to use in any practical way.
-
Peace Good logic,
Where does "reality" come from?
Pure nothingness
What is the original cause of all that we call "reality"?
It's cause is thought.
Its origin is from
Nothing in its purest and most intense form, holds the womb of genesis; yet is pure non-existence, as an ultimate absolute. This sounds irrational, but consider this, is not absolute pure nothingness, in itself, a state of a continuous form, that of absolute pure nothingness, (the concept of absolute nothingness is difficult to conceive within the mind, it is beyond blackness, it is outside of any idea of time, it is beyond even infinitesimal volume, having none of these things), this absolute, is a state, one of PURE nothingness, a state of being in itself.
This fixed state, of the absolute purity of nothingness, demands the realisation of that purity, the actuality of the reality of this state, so the emergence of a single, exotic, ethereal, virtual complexity in affirmation, a paradoxical recognition; yet at that instant, that single exotic virtual complexity is the sum of all knowledge; unsullied, undiluted, the sole alpha knowledge; not as a simple idea of the mind, but as the fundamental embryo of conscious imaginative reality, the nascent seed of conscious potential building within, so from the womb of nothingness, the seed of consciousness grows, in its realisation the governing form is inaugurated, all the underlying foundations are instituted, driving all creations.
Two opposing states exist, each rebuffs the other, both must exist for each to remain, one non-representational, one representational; pure nothingness holds true, yet something remains demanding pure nothingness is all that exists, in so doing a powerful dichotomy exists, and the tension of the two opposing forces drives all existence, but between the two extremes, being the salaam which holds the dichotomy in balance, the unified segregation of the paradox, which is eternally expanding creation, and manifests fresh knowledge perpetually, emanating all through a single source, the tension between the two extremes of the overarching dichotomy, the eternally growing seed of the single consciousness of the alpha and the omega.
In clarification, pure nothingness exists, but simultaneously everything exists, it is a paradoxical dichotomy, much like the light of the Sun, the blackness still exists beneath it, so always within blackness the potential of light, and within light the potential of blackness. So even if light fills all creations, beneath, blackness remains dominant, as always in the A-symmetrical order of creation the unchangeable state underpins the changeable.
How would an animal or a tree perceive " reality"?
Consciousness is fractal, and fractals build forming larger more complex forms, lower fractal forms have lower densities of perception, how a lower fractal percieved reality would again be governed by their capacity of mind.
What is consciousness?
Consciousness is to be awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, and perceptual surroundings.
How do we know that is all there is?
Only thought exists.
-
To be honest with you Abdun Nur,when I read your explanation of where the origin is from , I deduced that it is another long winded way of explaining "GOD" as the origin of all that exist.
other questions came to my mind Who decides on where "fractals" are placed and why?
Also if only thoughts exist,then how are the things beyond /independent of thoughts formed and why?And lastly where does justice and balance fit in all this? And where does the fine tuning of all the constants that keep life on earth fit in?
Thank you for your answers from earlier.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You really should change your name "good logic" unless you're being ironic.
Imagine a infinite pure consciousness pouring from nothingness endlessly, within a singular, infinitely repeating, spinning moment, without any substance, no material existence of any kind, no quantity of space or energy; not an entity because only the consciousness exists, and to be an entity would require something other, something distinct from something else, so consciousness is always an ?entirety?.
The idea of a separate entity is nonsensical.
Fractals grow, so you decide through your thoughts.
Establish the right thoughts attracts companions and build the fractal form, its harmonizing the thought, so if you are a religion obsessed nut job, praying and worshipping, and adoring false perceptions all over the place, the chances are very low you will grow, and could even shrink
-
Nothing is independent of thought, nothing!
Justice is the exercise of authority in vindication of right by assigning reward or punishment. That is not something worth valuing.
The ?jural sphere? is to be distinguished from the ?moral sphere?
The moral sphere is the whole scope of ethics and the science of ethical conduct.
Ethics = a system of moral principles
The jural sphere is constructed legal fictions that are subjected as legal sanctions upon the dominated.
Jural = the exercise of authority in vindication (avenging) of granted right by assigning reward or punishment.What you should be focused on is not justice but virtues.
-
Brother,
I am a religious nut according to what I understand from your views. I understand that.But according to what I perceive ,I am on a journey of trial and improvement.
One thing I am certain about is I have been created, like all other creations by a Creator. The origin of all that exist.
Now having said that,I am still learning and trying to find out the hows and whys of the creation.Now,if this is frustrating to you, you can call me "silly logic". I do not mind .
I also understand your frustration with those that are not on your wavelength . That does not mean you should stop trying to push your point of view. Only I pass for now.
Nevertheless brother,I command you for your stand.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
OK, what is the reasoned logic that you have established certainty you have been created by an entity you label a god, as i would argue you are a fractal expansion, growing to higher states of consciousness.
i am open to new ideas and let me consider your arguement.
-
No worries.
The best argument is the message" Qoran".
For me, Arabic has not changed that much since Qoran came to change the meaning of the basic message .According to my study of Qoran,there is a creator,there is accountability and there is justice.
There is also a free choice of thoughts/actions for each individual.
I respect yours.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
