question about dress code
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Indeed. That sums it up much better than any comment I could make. That shows what comes first for whom and all the crap about cultural biases and other mumbo-jumbo.
Salaam
I did not really expect anything in return, except a failure to write a coherent answer and instead praising Faith's one line comment as he takes a single phrase of mine out of context, similarly as he does with his Flat Earth. Accepts few silly arguments of theirs and uses it right and left ) Yep, indeed a shame. giveup
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Makaveli - what do you believe the male responsibility to be?
You claim you're slaves till 30's but reality is you are part of a society and have the power to change things provided you find someone who is in agreement with your thinking/views or could compromise. It's not easy but it is possible. Also the things people value will differ regardless of what era, people will always desire things and that's just human nature.
Lots of families ask for large sums for mahr which is ridiculous but how many people do you know actually give this mahr. it seems to be more of a telling than an actual deed from what I have seen.
We're all slaves, men and women. Your views are just biased and I assume based on bitter cultural/societal expectations as well as the ease in how people meet others and their specific preferences.
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Makaveli - what do you believe the male responsibility to be?
You claim you're slaves till 30's but reality is you are part of a society and have the power to change things provided you find someone who is in agreement with your thinking/views or could compromise. It's not easy but it is possible. Also the things people value will differ regardless of what era, people will always desire things and that's just human nature.
Lots of families ask for large sums for mahr which is ridiculous but how many people do you know actually give this mahr. it seems to be more of a telling than an actual deed from what I have seen.
We're all slaves, men and women. Your views are just biased and I assume based on bitter cultural/societal expectations as well as the ease in how people meet others and their specific preferences.
It depends on what we percieve as men. The way how average members of soceity, both men and women, behave is not similar to the way how believing people behave. I believe that the responsibility of a believing man is to marry a chaste beliving woman, pay her from his wealth (55) and treat her kindly (419). That is however not how most so called 'believing men' act. They are often dull in what they choose, they choose women solely by looks and with the sole goal of pleasing themselves, and they mary women who are not chaste and pursuse materialistic and wordly pleasures, and then they wonder why would she act not the way he believes she should act. Many believing women, in contrast, take the "pay them compensation" part to the extreme so that they look for man who is rich and then wonder why does he treat them as an object, even though there is almost no opportunities for someone to become rich and not use people as objects, except in a few rare cases but then again there is a high probability that this person will become arrogant.
It is about choices that we make and the amount of faith that we invest in our everyday lives. That is why a lot of religious communities are perverted, so the society as a whole becomes either too feministic or too patriarchal, and neither of these extremes are righteous or good for people, because they establish tyranny of some sort. That is why some societies introduce religious versions of prostitution, such as temporary marriages or civil unions or domestic partnerships, just to find an excuse to act in accordance with their wordly desires, because their society is unbalanced in terms of finding sexual partners. But they act arrogantly and selfish because there are members of society who cannot afford a spouse (either due to lack of certain financial threshold or due to physical incompatibility, such as illness or disability or because he/she cannot 'integrate' in society and accept the rules of the 'game', but they care not about those, those are treated like useless trash, becasue the meaning of the marriage between two believers is either paganistic or straight atheistic in these so called religious soceity. And by religioin I mean secular societies too, of course. My views on religion are not limited to Islam.
My point was that if we blame men for being those who believe that women owe them everything, then the same is true about women who now have way more civic rights than men, at least in most industrialized societies. Right now it is almost impossible to find a young woman who acts in accordance with faith as described in Qur'an or similar teachings (regarding their parts on marital regulations).
There is no power to change society except through violent means which I did support before when I was inspired by socialist ideas, but I have now change my views on it.
People may become marginalized in any era, i.e. some people may percieve things to work differently than that of general society and this makes them marginalized, but there are vast differences between the views of marriage and families in say the first half of the 20th century U.S. and now.
My views are based on personal observations, experience and contemplation, to be exact. We can philosophize on what is biased, if we take two colors, red and green, and they will appear different to the color blind, but the common understanding of things i.e. how general society views them requires some level of generalization.
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I did not really expect anything in return, except a failure to write a coherent answer and instead praising Faith's one line comment as he takes a single phrase of mine out of context, similarly as he does with his Flat Earth. Accepts few silly arguments of theirs and uses it right and left Yep, indeed a shame. giveup
?Poor Makaveli! Feeling obliged to bring in flat earth to discredit somebody on quite a different question... Sad.
...responsibility of a believing man is to marry a chaste beliving woman...
Provided the believing man is also chaste, otherwise the Qur'an is quite clear.
Salaam
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?Poor Makaveli! Feeling obliged to bring in flat earth to discredit somebody on quite a different question... Sad.
Now that you've used your intelligence capacity to the maximum and even learned to use spellcheck on your iphone, I must say you are slowly but surely turning better. Hope a real man will appreciate you for who you are and add a dictionary and a book on feminine etiquette to your mahr.
And, as a real man I proudly grant you the right of the last word in this 'debate' (more like a tennis match really, than a debate). sun
Provided the believing man is also chaste, otherwise the Qur'an is quite clear.
Key phrase is a 'believing' person.
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Key phrase is a 'believing' person.
That key phrase you did not consider enough for a woman, since you also added chaste, so, beside that silly task of giving birth to new beings she also seems to have extra task of being chaste, according to your appreciation.
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Thanks all for this discussion! Are there any verses that state how men and women should dress during prayer? I don't see in the ayat about wudu that women need to cover everything when they pray? Any logic to this?
Edip at some point discussed this issue https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQGmPJY-Lbo
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Thanks all for this discussion! Are there any verses that state how men and women should dress during prayer? I don't see in the ayat about wudu that women need to cover everything when they pray? Any logic to this?
Quran provides the answer, see http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it...
In other words, women can reveal what is ordinarily apparent/visible, and what that is is discussed in the link above. So same goes for during the regular/timed salat of the mumineen.
