Are these scientific mistakes ???
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Unfortunately, without an equal level of the minds within a community it is more efficient to maintain a community system. What I am saying is the human is more efficient and developmental with leadership, because of each individual within the community itself. There is always going to be someone who is more mentally superior than others and this one is best suited to be a leader. And a leader is the same as a guide, someone who can coordinate the community's affairs. In the best of worlds this person is someone who is not answering to bodily instincts whatsoever, which in superstitious belief would be God, but since God is just a delusion in terms of lending assistance that way, then it has to be someone who is capable of emulating God.
This governance is probably a utopia for as long as mankind does not acknowledge their own body is their greatest weakness, but it is what would turn the world around for the better if people would begin to listen to the leader.
Anyways, the government is for the protection of each citizen, a human community would not function without a government because of the before mentioned reason. An anarchy only works if every person is always going to be following goodly behavior, leading themselves forward, but that is never going to happen as long as people accept to listen to their body's instinct. Because that is not going to happen the community needs policing, an enforced law, justice system/correctional department and trustworthy people who coordinate societal functions etc, i.e. you need a government. An anarchy is going to end in chaos and eventually be annexed by people who seek as assume control and then the people who lived in the anarchy will live under a foreign government who enforce their laws on them (perhaps a dictatorship), because they could not or did not not possess a sovereign state. Everything of this is possible to be simulated in the mind and it is quite logically obvious. Anyone who proposes this type of community is very shortsighted and naive, not thinking it through.
Of course, governance of a human community is not in the interest of Quran as this is not what it is intended to teach. It does teach a human individual to grow to new levels in order to use their mind to do things such as guide people, indirectly, by elevating their being and strength of mind.
If to summarize what the book is teaching it is to be, how to be and it is actually quite simple because the main factor to be concerned about is the bodily influence on the mind. It only takes accepting that the truth is so and then actively reform. Just as this, Quran could be filled on an A4 page, but it says the same thing many many times over and over again in different ways, mainly teaching the reader how to penetrate mental barriers of other people since it already assumes the reader knows what it is saying from just a few pages.
Okay. Now I referred to Quran as saying something else than the commonly interpreted version, so if you must so ban me, o administration of the forum.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Unfortunately, without an equal level of the minds within a community it is more efficient to maintain a community system. What I am saying is the human is more efficient and developmental with leadership, because of each individual within the community itself. There is always going to be someone who is more mentally superior than others and this one is best suited to be a leader. And a leader is the same as a guide, someone who can coordinate the community's affairs. In the best of worlds this person is someone who is not answering to bodily instincts whatsoever, which in superstitious belief would be God, but since God is just a delusion in terms of lending assistance that way, then it has to be someone who is capable of emulating God.
I agree, there is no way a community of people can exist without government. There will always be government and governance. But everyone knows about religious principles just as every human being on Earth has heard about God in one way or the other. And there are many teachings available, mostly distorted, yet available, not limited to the Qur'an. Most people won't read the Qur'an let alone try to understand it in its native language, but there has to be other information of their culture which teaches the same or almost the same. At some point the system we are born and raised in can be seen as a trial, but most people fall for patriotism or other cultural or religious dogmas i.e. 'WE' as opposite to 'US' ideology.
I was not and will never call for an other form of government or anarchy, regime change will not accomplish quality changes I believe. But what I am saying an enlightened individual does not seek power and hierarchy as one of his/her primary objectives, which in turn means that he/she is not seeking a political position or a way to start a business and exploit others. So everyone will be raised in a society and under government, that is not a choice, it simply works this way. But some people can enlighten themselves to the point they realize that the wordly life is in vain and seek enlightenment instead. That is where the scriptures come in places, but, at the same time, it is very hard to understand the initial message due to linguistic and artificial distortions, which happened over ages.
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At the same time it is not logical to say the verse (242) was added later...
Peace, all the words are there along with punishment mentioned...
https//s26.postimg.org/qv8r4w1yh/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch24v0-9.jpg
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Peace, all the words are there along with punishment mentioned...
Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Chapter 24 of the Qur'an, something is really fishy about it. Too many "obey the messenger", just too many of it, too much of a community, too many physical legal punishments. Something is very unusual about this chapter, I can't accept it the way it is right now. Perhaps it is not supposed to be a standalone chapter but a part of some other text where God speaks how people lived like fascist and then he says don't be like them. Idk. -\
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A question is whether the alleged word for "punishment" really means that or if the word means something else.
The word you refer to can also mean "deny" according to etymological sources.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
A question is whether the alleged word for "punishment" really means that or if the word means something else.
The word you refer to can also mean "deny" according to etymological sources.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelWould be great if you could refer to pages of Lane, MoF.
Peace.
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Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Chapter 24 of the Qur'an, something is really fishy about it. Too many "obey the messenger", just too many of it, too much of a community, too many physical legal punishments. Something is very unusual about this chapter, I can't accept it the way it is right now. Perhaps it is not supposed to be a standalone chapter but a part of some other text where God speaks how people lived like fascist and then he says don't be like them. Idk. -\
And also in chapter 24 in many cases God clearly says he is the one who can't be harmed and nothing what happens on Earth harms him, and it is he who judges. So why legal governmental punishments?
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Would be great if you could refer to pages of Lane, MoF.
Peace.
If I am not mistaken, volume 5 pages 266-268.
"To deny, hinder from, be inaccessible, prevent.
Also "desist, abstain from".
Also more plausible if someone has done something bad such as promiscuity that you deny (disown) them and their doing. Showing strict disapproval will be effective since it is in the instinctive nature of humans to seek approval, and the more of a role model (estimated on a hierarchical ladder) you are the more hurtful is the disapproval aimed at someone whereas if you are not influential disapproval may be ineffective.
So-called celebrities bear the burden of being role models in a society and they often do it poorly too. If these people do what should be disapproved of, then if someone with less influence disapprove of the same they may even be laughed at.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
If I am not mistaken, volume 5 pages 266-268.
"To deny, hinder from, be inaccessible, prevent.
Also "desist, abstain from".
Thanks. I agree it would be way more plausible. Also rejecting the disbelievers especially celebrities would decrease them in price so that people would stop following the idols.
But unfortunately I've failed to find these meanings of punishment as you suggest. I am not too experienced with the style of Lane, but so far I've found punishment
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/e0a2f80512ae5531a7b80644290c9613.png
Nevermind
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/46a64b1386087f10a836d2a2b00653bd.png
But what about hundred lashes?
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Thanks. I agree it would be way more plausible. Also rejecting the disbelievers especially celebrities would decrease them in price so that people would stop following the idols.
But unfortunately I've failed to find these meanings of punishment as you suggest. I am not too experienced with the style of Lane, but so far I've found punishment
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/e0a2f80512ae5531a7b80644290c9613.png
Nevermind
http//pix.academ.info/img/2017/09/27/46a64b1386087f10a836d2a2b00653bd.png
But what about hundred lashes?
I am not really interested in debating the traditional understanding of Quran, but you can reason with yourself if is so twisted as to imply punishment when it in reality means deny, then it is unlikely the word for lashes means just that.
is the (root) word translated as flog or lash, but that is not its only connotation but it can mean compel or force, or endure (as if to suffer a consequence). I cannot speculate too much without delving into deciphering the whole context.
As for Zina, it is not even certain it is restricted to adultery, but it can be anything which is a shameful doing (misdeeds) such as thievery, when someone has committed something. It is possible to see indications of this if browsing available definitions.
It is not possible to retain the traditional interpretation of Quran and the way it is understood if to find out what it should really say, it is too grossly distorted. Not even words that are dogmatically held unto mean something what is claimed about them such as "allah".
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
is the (root) word translated as flog or lash, but that is not its only connotation but it can mean compel or force, or endure (as if to suffer a consequence). I cannot speculate too much without delving into deciphering the whole context.
As for Zina, it is not even certain it is restricted to adultery, but it can be anything which is a shameful doing (misdeeds) such as thievery, when someone has committed something. It is possible to see indications of this if browsing available definitions.
Thanks. I agree on zina and similar concepts, including riba (usury), can be a wider concept than it is usually percieved.
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And also in chapter 24 in many cases God clearly says he is the one who can't be harmed and nothing what happens on Earth harms him, and it is he who judges. So why legal governmental punishments?
People do well condemning themselves so there is hardly any need for punishments. The destruction of a soul into non-existence mentally is punishment enough and it is self-inflicted.
Better for people to emulate a healer and try to help people who are broken.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Thanks. I agree on zina and similar concepts, including riba (usury), can be a wider concept than it is usually percieved.
If it sounds primitive and lowly, your common sense is bound to be correct.
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Peace, yes, so? I've never said there is no punishment.
Peace, never said you said there is no punishment.
What puzzled me last few days why scribe/s wrote punishment with alif other places without?
Their system was to distinguish when refers to individual no alif and to group written with alif.
https//s26.postimg.org/g0h8w9ip5/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch25v35-45.jpg
https//s26.postimg.org/3y82ww5bd/MA_VI_165_Quran_ch33v62-72.jpg
Modern texts consistently use alif ignore nuance which scribes of old were more cognizant.
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Don't doubt your Lord's Words
Research high altitude balloons and rockets and do not presume the current paradigm you believe is even near to correct. Once you remove all your biases and expectations and open your mind and heart to God's indication you might see clearly it is exactly as He citesIf you can actually come up with a correct map for the flat earth model taking into account the real distances between locations and not any sort of projections issued from the globe model, I'd be forced to accept it, for the moment I'll stay neutral...
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Peace, all the words are there along with punishment mentioned...
I think we again fell under the influence of our preconceived notion. I reread the verses on lashing. There is something we all missed. 4 witnesses won't be enough. They also have to take an oath
And the fifth that the curse of Allah be upon him if he should be among the liars.247
That's similar to the one I asked from both Bukharists and atheists only to see them consistently discontinue their conversation with me after that on why what they believed was right.
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Witnesses, of course, must be questionned and their respective testimony checked against each other and any other testimony or evidence. Besides, nobody is obliged to testify. The accuser must find the witnesses and make them testify, no institution is bound to do such job and nobody can be forced to act as witnesses. It is all upon the accuser to get the witnesses.
Salaam
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Witnesses, of course, must be questionned and their respective testimony checked against each other and any other testimony or evidence. Besides, nobody is obliged to testify. The accuser must find the witnesses and make them testify, no institution is bound to do such job and nobody can be forced to act as witnesses. It is all upon the accuser to get the witnesses.
Salaam
That's the loophole being used in countries that have lashing punishment for rapists. It is rare for women to find a witness. The consequence is the state lashing them with the excuse of false accusations they are putting on the rapists. But as we have seen earlier, not even atheists are comfortable taking an oath like the one in 247.
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But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
In that case it is not a natural difficulty but an act of corruption all right. The question then would nto be the Qur'an but the state of a society for which justice simply is not such but another means of oppression. That is a rotten society.
Salaam
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Peace,
But for rpe there is no need to find four witnesses, that is a crime, like murder or theft.
It would not be a loophole it would be a complete rebellion against justice and the Qur'an and for which any other means of evidence is admissible.
Where is the punishment for rape outlined in The Reading according to you? Clearly we can see the punishment for theft, for instance in 538.
Also, there have been countless accusations of rape which were simply not true - especailly in the West and specifically the USA. I am guessing here, but I wouldn't be surprised that women at least in the USA report rape at a higher rate than it actually happens. The (third-wave) feminist movement is the primary reason for this pushing their "rape culture" myth and telling women to be slutty and claiming it's ok to feel like having been raped by just regretting sex with a stranger. E.g. "I am a slut and regret having sex with that guy. Rape!" Or "What if my boyfriend finds out that I am a slut and cheated on him... Oh yeah I will just accuse that guy I slept with of rape!" It's easy for females, and courts are in favor of females not just in cases of rape/sexual harrassment in the U.S. such as the child custody, alimony, lower prison sentences for crimes (not looked too much into this though,) etc.
What do you mean by "that is a crime, like murder and theft (sic)" - does that comma imply that you are saying that "zina" is not a crime or that rape is a crime like theft and murder - and what do you mean by that?