Abortion?
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Dear women, abortion is permissible to you.
Seek no answers from men regarding this, for we will answer to God, The Judge.
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God bless you Faith, indeed, God is the master and the judge, no woman owes any attention to impostors.
Salaam, Salaam
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Yet what I said about wrong, it is yet up to the woman whether to proceed with the pregnancy or not, and no one else. And I am not going to condemn anyone for their doing
Nearly wish I could rape HP_TECH and leave him pregnant though and see if he would think differently, which I am sure he would. It is easy to be self-righteous in relationship to others.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Yet what I said about wrong, it is yet up to the woman whether to proceed with the pregnancy or not, and no one else. And I am not going to condemn anyone for their doing
Nearly wish I could rape HP_TECH and leave him pregnant though and see if he would think differently, which I am sure he would. It is easy to be self-righteous in relationship to others.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelSalaam, Man of Faith, at least you are consequent with your own tenets and realise the coldheartness utter cruelty of some that use God's words as a weapon against women but never in favour of women.
They would like that the trust between God and osmen would be under their ruling. They cannot stand that the sacred trust of life not be under their power but be in the hands of a creature whom in fact they could obliterate with a blow and whoin fact they can force even to conceive. They think they are relicating God?
Al arHam are under God's direct trust of God with no intermmediary. Deal with it, and spite with rage. You have no say in that. With have to deal with women for that. God deals with women directly and you do so
Yet what I said about wrong, it is yet up to the woman whether to proceed with the pregnancy or not, and no one else. And I am not going to condemn anyone for their doing
Nearly wish I could rape HP_TECH and leave him pregnant though and see if he would think differently, which I am sure he would. It is easy to be self-righteous in relationship to others.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelI am sure many self-righteous persons would benefit from really going through what they so happily thrust upon others as if it was cake, and as if those others were allpowerful God, for whom nothing is impossible while at the same time being conveniences they can use at will and be dispose of equally at will. In fact we all know that many men, even self-righteous men, use women not as persons or has holders of ever "so sacred life" but as sewers and as worriless as if what God had commanded them above all was hypocrisy and double measure and double talk.
It is a sad fact that many males cannot stand the fact that women have that power and that trust of giving life and they do not own an inch of it. It kill them, it kills their Iblees fire nafs that a weak creature they could obliterate with a blow should have that prerrogative. They are not interrested in being qawwamun and sustaining and supporting them those waker creatures, it kills them. Deal with it Ilbees men, deal with it.
Women respond directly to God not to your arrogance. Any complain you have, address it to God. Since you are nto willing to be qawwamoon and support women, the best you could do is to keep off and let other men who are really deserving and willing to act as God fearing men do their job and maintain a humanity based of trust and respect instead of on violence, distrust and jealousy.
Salaam to all those that support and respect women and men.
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At least in my household my wife is treated with respect and I take care of her, because I feel it is my humanly responsibility. I help with household chores and I take my son to school every day. I do not have a sense of being above her as a man and I am just the male counterpart of the female in the oneness of our bonding.
But our genders are only superficial due to our bodies and in our minds this is irrelevant and it is the mental strength which is truly valuable.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Wow wow
You think I was quoting 2286 alone. Not to be offensive, but that straight off tells me that your comprehension level and your ability to recall context and gist of Quran is not up to par. That phrase is used throughout the Quran, for multiple scenarios and also in a universal way. It is completely in context and relevant.
My primary objective was to show you that there are at least two people involved in a rape and the unvierse does not circle around a woman only, as far as I know. I know a story about a guy being tempted because she wore provocative clothing. So it was a test for both of them. He failed a test and she learned a lesson. At least that's how I see it. I condemn raping but the world is a test. And most, including you, obviously fail to understand that.
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Nearly wish I could rape HP_TECH and leave him pregnant though and see if he would think differently, which I am sure he would. It is easy to be self-righteous in relationship to others.
A woman I told about in my previous comments was raped as a virgin, but she did not report him because the dude had a family and children so she did not want to break that guy's family.
I sometimes hear about tremendously compassionate women, but I've never met them in person. Not sure if they are a myth or I am just born in the wrong place.
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No I believe the root of the problem is the pushy pinkish hypocritical agenda that is "gender equality".
When you have people asserting that men and women are equal (specially in their wordly abilities) that is completely not true.
Take sex for example, a man having sex isn't like a woman having sex. A man can get away with it whereas a woman can get pregnant and thus get stuck with the consequences of it. How do the feminists view such thing ? Well simple, the woman is also free to do whatever she wants, and therefore the first mistake which is "unpurposeful sex" is getting complemented by a second mistake and that is "to get rid of the consequence".
a women has a great responsibility, due to the fact that she can bear a child, and be a mother. Therefore, I repeat it again, she should not put herself in "risky" situations, where she gets to pay a lot more than men would (equality what?). And that explains why women mature a lot earlier than men, and then intuitively worry a lot, and assess situations appropriately (an example is how well women do in school compared to men).
Therefore the righteous women know themselves and behave appropriately. Whethe she works or stays at home.
Men has a duty to protect and sustain her. A women isn't necessarily made for labor, men is. The natural relationship between men and women is the one of the ying yang. One complements the other. I'm not saying women should confine themselves in houses, rather they should NOT forget about their natural ability that is giving birth and being mothers. And that is very special. and different, not equal to what men can do.
The fake agenda that is pushed will surely create more fracture than healing with its pushy notion of "equality". This notion implies a lot of unfounded non sense that will get a lot of baby killed. Simply because "men can get away with it, therefore women should get away with it, eventhough naturally they're bound to it, but who gives a shit, let's get rid of it because we're equal".
Statistically speaking, the majority of the reasons behind abortions are mostly miscalculations, failed contraceptives, a financial discomfort, whatever. They had sex but "Oops we got pregnant in the process".
Finally, and in such discussion, you cannot simply jump right into whether a fetus has a soul, or play with words to prove that they don't have one. Or to jump right into cases of rapes and/or incest. That is if you want to have a reasonable discussion.
It'd be good if the other members put their pocket quran down for a second and have a reasonable discussion too. Whether quran says this or that, or you've been digging too dip in it to prove your point, it still has no weight if you're talking to a non quran believer. But whether you're a quran believer or not everyone should be able to reach the same conclusions at some point since we share the same common consciousness.
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Brother Cerberus,the point of discussion is not who is good or bad at taking responsibility . It is about women deciding about what is in their body.
GOD has chosen to put the responsibility of baring children on women ,hence men and women should accept their different responsibilities.
NOT men dictating (or other women for each other) what happens to the foetus inside the woman.
The woman herself has to decide.
Abortion is a decision taken by the woman bearing that child, Her judge is GOD Alone. We should accept that and trust women.
Good and bad women exist in society like good and bad men. That is another topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
A woman and man is equal when separating their bodily identity from their minds/beings/persons/seeds. It is the body which makes a person male or female and it is possible to function beyond those primitive parameters. The body with either female or male sex is nothing which is absolute in making who we are or should be and it could very well be that you end up being female when you were male or vice versa, it is up to the one distributing your gender. It is not wise to focus too hard on the sex of your body and the identity it gives you. Use solely your mind instead which you have been blessed with.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
Brother Cerberus,the point of discussion is not who is good or bad at taking responsibility . It is about women deciding about what is in their body.
GOD has chosen to put the responsibility of baring children on women ,hence men and women should accept their different responsibilities.
NOT men dictating (or other women for each other) what happens to the foetus inside the woman.
The woman herself has to decide.
Abortion is a decision taken by the woman bearing that child, Her judge is GOD Alone. We should accept that and trust women.
Good and bad women exist in society like good and bad men. That is another topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salaam, good logic
You probably or most surely already know it, but anyway I am going to tell you You are peddling a merchandise that is not wanted. The "antiabortionist" type is not interested in what is right or wrong or in saving the zygotes, the embryos or even the fetuses. The "antiabortionist" is exclusively interested in saving his Iblees fire ego. They are like Chernobil. When nuclear energy is spoken about, you get the nuclear plant incident in Chernobil paraded, blown out, magnified, frightening and alarming beyond belief. But when nobody is thinking about nuclear energy, the Ucrania would seem not to have had ever such a place as Chernobil. The nice walking could be as well happen in the Toscana (just to name a place).
So abortion in fact does not frighten anybody nor alarms anybody and nobody cries moving tears of pain for the loss for the zygote, or embryo or even fetus through miscarriage which happens so often, and which go down the drain or for experiments and study. Who cares? But when it is non miscarriage abortion that is talked about, then ?Waaaah! Al guns out and murder and "sexes are not equal", and all the arsenal.
It is so transparent... They suffer, the poor Iblees fire egos suffer. Are they going to have to "postrate" wo women, those fickle horrible creatures who have menses and get fat when pregnant, acknowledge that they (women) have a private sphere where they (the real humans) do not have the command? Why didn't God, for God's sake, fit in the woman an appliance for which they, the males would have the remote control with push buttons, so they could make the women behave, and abort zygotes, embryos, fetuses and even 24 years-olds when they got the order from men and conceive and carry to term whatever they, the rightful masters of the women, wanted them to deliver to them,when they wanted it.
That is the question. They don't suffer for those "poor children murdered". If they did they would have already spent all of their fortunes in saving all the born children out there or on pandering to women so they wouldn't resort to "murder" of poor zygotes, e. f... What they suffer for is the shrinking kingdom of their vanity and egolatry which seems to be giving meaning to their lives.
They are not interested in following the example of the prophets, so many of them males, who never intruded on their women, neither their wives nor any other. Who were humble, and were qawwamoon for women and the whole of society.
?Ay, Iblees, Iblees, you are so popular an are keeping so mum about it... so that your cover is not blown (like Chernobil)!Let us have some zygotes to the rescue.
Salaam
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Brother Cerberus,the point of discussion is not who is good or bad at taking responsibility . It is about women deciding about what is in their body.
GOD has chosen to put the responsibility of baring children on women ,hence men and women should accept their different responsibilities.
NOT men dictating (or other women for each other) what happens to the foetus inside the woman.
The woman herself has to decide.
Abortion is a decision taken by the woman bearing that child, Her judge is GOD Alone. We should accept that and trust women.
Good and bad women exist in society like good and bad men. That is another topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Good Logic... SIGH
What kind of logic it is to leave anything unspoken, unjustified, illogical, irrational and then dare to say "God is the judge". Sure god is the judge but what does that have to do with anything I SAID ?! I said abortion is wrong and formulated my opinion but there you are saying pretty much nothing and telling me to "trust women" when some women are totally irresponsible ?!
What is this talk about "the woman herself has to decide" when anyone can make a right or wrong decision, does it mean you have to agree with whatever they decide to do ? Or is it only if you are a "man" and you are expressing an opinion on a women related topic that you're considered "dictating to women" ?!
Please don't throw everything I said to the ground and bring this down to some "men vs women" issue. The feminists love to do that because that's when they can write paragraphs of hate filled speech.
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A woman and man is equal when separating their bodily identity from their minds/beings/persons/seeds. It is the body which makes a person male or female and it is possible to function beyond those primitive parameters. The body with either female or male sex is nothing which is absolute in making who we are or should be and it could very well be that you end up being female when you were male or vice versa, it is up to the one distributing your gender. It is not wise to focus too hard on the sex of your body and the identity it gives you. Use solely your mind instead which you have been blessed with.
Be well
Qarael AmenuelI agree, but since women and men are different(not equal!) in their bodily functioning and abilities they have relatively different challenges. And still each one of them has to know him/herself in order to respond the most appropriately to those challenges.
But do you think people, statistically speaking, resorting to abortion use their mind ? I feel like everyone is dodging the actual problem here.
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Both parties are guilty of abortion cases, she and he. And since most of the abortions are due to irresponsibility (not all, some are by choice, but most are), then the child should not be held guilty over stupidity of a woman and a man. Not being born is not as bad as being born in the stupid "family" or even outside of the family, being left in the orphanage or being left with a stupid single mom. My two cents. Abortions are not good because they come from things that are not pure, either irresponsible sexual act or a rape.
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I am not saying one cannot have any opinion they want. And I do not care who says what.
I was only giving my opinion like everyone does . My opinion based on my understanding of Qoran.
I have repeated it few times and I do not mind repeating this argument
Carrying a child,what it entails,how it is done and the final outcome (bearing the child or not) is the concern of the mother!!!!
Of course we should trust mothers. The fact that few of them are"bad apples" is not the subject here. That is what I am saying ,according to my understanding of Qoran.
Courts of law are there for those that think laws have been broken. I do not see,even if Qoran is not taken into accounts,abortions being tried in any of these courts.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Of course we should trust mothers. The fact that few of them are"bad apples" is not the subject here.
Did I understand you correctly, that you have used a word "few" in your sentence? I am not sure what is "few" in your calculations, but those thousands and thousands of abortions in any statistics somehow do not let me use that particular expression, provided I am in a sane condition.
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My "few" are not about women who have abortions. They are about few women.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
My "few" are not about women who have abortions. They are about few women.
So if I understand you correctly, your stance on abortion like you said is based on the Qur'an. Qur'an tells about abstaining from sexual relations except with one's spouse, and that logically means creating a family, and having sexual relations with a spouse naturally means conceiving a child. I am not sure where you take free abortions from this line. So, if my understanding of your "few" is correct, then do you believe that abortions are fine but only "few" women who conduct them are "bad apples" not the rest of the countless of women who conduct abortions in and outside of the families (usually outside)?
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I do not police anyone. I do not know the intentions of men or women,neither do I want to be anyone s wakil.
My stance is GOD is the judge of His people.I do not have a view on abortion because I do not know the reasons behind them, I trust mums because GOD made them with a strong loving instinct towards their children. I do not believe ,under normal circumstances,any woman will want to harm her child.
To me the mother alone is responsible .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I do not police anyone. I do not know the intentions of men or women,neither do I want to be anyone s wakil.
My stance is GOD is the judge of His people.I do not have a view on abortion because I do not know the reasons behind them, I trust mums because GOD made them with a strong loving instinct towards their children. I do not believe ,under normal circumstances,any woman will want to harm her child.
To me the mother alone is responsible .
GOD bless you.
Peace.I never said you police anyone, but from what you've written your point is that it is mother that is solely responsible for her body, without mentioning that there is always a man involved. Instincts do not prevent some from leaving their newborn children in the garbage bins. That is why I also believe there should never be police and the ban on abortion, BUT I am just quoting what you said, i.e. there is only few "bad apples" out of billion of abortions. I am just trying to understand your definition of the "bad apples" logic, can't say its good as of now...
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I agree, but since women and men are different(not equal!)
I can see where you say men and women are different men can rule themselves and women should be ruld by others, not by themselves.
The same thing again, wide for me narrow ofr others. We got the first time.
Do you have to trust women? No. Do we hav to trust Cerberus? No.
You are the one who is running away from any logic or reasoning you keep saying the same thing over and over but do not give any ground. You just voice your opinions and if others do not agree then you say that they do not reason.
I understand that you are in love with your own opinions, but does anybudy have to trust your lov with your own opinions?
?Do you opine that women's bodies are State properties and not th turst of God to the women themselves just as the body of any other than women are also a trust from God to the person?
So the fact that the women conceives results in the body of the woman becoming a public property?
I guess you are not older than 12, because otherwise I just cannot fathom that you come up with what you come up.
Salaam