Abortion?
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Brother Noon.
The verses you quoted,according to my understanding of Qoran,have nothing to do with forced "abortion". I use the word -forced- as in all situations,there are exceptions.Apart from that,I have answered all your points in my last post.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Brother Noon.
The verses you quoted,according to my understanding of Qoran,have nothing to do with forced "abortion". I use the word -forced- as in all situations,there are exceptions.Apart from that,I have answered all your points in my last post.
GOD bless you.
Peace.brother good logic, please answer the 4 questions posted YES/NO for the 4th time?
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Brother Noon,I do not agree with your take on the verses.
I explained my position.
That should answer your 4 questions.
If you have any verses on consequences of "abortion" in Qoran list them,then we can continue the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Brother Noon,I do not agree with your take on the verses.
I explained my position.
That should answer your 4 questions.brother good logic, simple Yes/No please -- why are you afraid to answer (this goes for everyone)?
- who does "him" refer to and do you agree a woman/anyone can kill/abort him at anytime during pregnancy?
1922 so carry she him so withdrew she with him place of remote of 1923 so approaches her the pains of childbirth to trunk the date palm said (f) O wish I dead before this and be I ignored forgotten of
- who does walad/child refer to and was he born yet -- yes or no?
347 said (f) lord whence being to me walad/child and not touched me human said like such the god created what willed when decree directive of so merely speaketh to it be so being
- do these phrases in Arabic mean to get a woman pregnant -- yes or no?
He made her to be the mother of children.
He made the girl to be the mother of a child.
He rendered her pregnant; got her with child.A child, son, daughter, youngling, or young one; and children, sons, daughters, offspring, young, or younglings; of any kind
- do unborn children inherit e.g. man leaves pregnant wife -- yes or no?
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when reach they of the marriage so if perceive you among them rational of so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs ....410 indeed the ones eating wealth the bereaved injustice of merely eating in interior body theirs fire of ...411 instructed you the god in awldikum/children yours...412 so if be for you walad/child so to them the eight
Waiting patiently for answers -- anyone please?
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- who does "him" refer to and do you agree a woman/anyone can kill/abort him at anytime during pregnancy?
1922 so carry she him so withdrew she with him place of remote of 1923 so approaches her the pains of childbirth to trunk the date palm said (f) O wish I dead before this and be I ignored forgotten of
- who does walad/child refer to and was he born yet -- yes or no?
347 said (f) lord whence being to me walad/child and not touched me human said like such the god created what willed when decree directive of so merely speaketh to it be so being
- do these phrases in Arabic mean to get a woman pregnant -- yes or no?
He made her to be the mother of children.
He made the girl to be the mother of a child.
He rendered her pregnant; got her with child.A child, son, daughter, youngling, or young one; and children, sons, daughters, offspring, young, or younglings; of any kind
- do unborn children inherit e.g. man leaves pregnant wife -- yes or no?
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when reach they of the marriage so if perceive you among them rational of so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs ....410 indeed the ones eating wealth the bereaved injustice of merely eating in interior body theirs fire of ...411 instructed you the god in awldikum/children yours...412 so if be for you walad/child so to them the eight
Waiting patiently for answers -- anyone please?
These verses have zero of injunction towards or overall anything related to abortion. First quote is about a story of a woman who beared a child, from immaculate conception. I am however unsure if it is speaking of John or someone else in chapter 19 verse 22.
The second one is clearly about Mary and her exprience of immaculate conception.
Immaculate conception has nothing to do with what is discussed in a thread. This topic is about abortion and surely no one has a second thought on wether or not immaculate conception is subject to abortion, because it is clearly God's command and will, according to the verses. The topic is about abortion which results from an actual intercourse, not immaculate conception.
Therefore, I am not sure what Noon is trying to accomplish by repeating the same meaningless questions.
I also have a theory why Qur'an does not state crystal clear on abortion, because if it did, we would also know exceptionally about the issue of nafs/soul/ruh etc. But we do not know, these are quite vague not only in Qur'an but the scriptures. This is somethign a man can achieve from yaers of contemplation. That is why we are not told "do not kill an unborn for it has a soul in it and a path".
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Therefore, I am not sure what Noon is trying to accomplish by repeating the same meaningless questions.
Only to point out who cannot comprehend simple definition of child.
1731 and not thou slay ye of awldakum/children yours
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Only to point out who cannot comprehend simple definition of child.
1731 and not thou slay ye of awldakum/children yours
Good point. Like I said, all these pro- or anti abortion debates are actually just seeking an answer "can we have irresponsible free unprotected passionate sex without consequences?"
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Peace Noon.
Your questions are irrelevant here. Nothing to do with "abortion".
The point you are making is"every woman who gets pregnant knows that she will have a child at the end of the pregnancy" That is logical. Did we say those pregnant think it will be an elephant and they abort it?
However the verses do not talk about abortion.
Can you see that you are not sticking to the topic ?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Did we say those pregnant think it will be an elephant and they abort it?
Peace, are you "good" logic?
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Way to trivialize ending a life...."the soul is just gonna be reset somewhere else" lol
Do you think a woman being pregnant has the right to question whether or not she should deliver a baby considering outside factors like maybe an economical crisis, a war, hunger ?
As far as I'm concerned, these questions need to be asked before getting pregnant. and how many kids were born in war and other terrible consequences ? Were they better off to not live at all ?If there is a sparkle of life right where it should be (in a womb), it should be delivered because that is what it means, generally. When a woman is pregnant we think of a new life, we do not think of a new death, and we do not think of how bad life can turn out for that child (and we do not really think of a miscarriage or some other accidents). We do not think if the child will be a good child with a good life. Life just happens. Someone else kept saying here that "an unborn child is better than a child in an orphanage" and that is completely not right to say.
We do not have the right to fast-forward into the child's life. We cannot question whether the child should be given the right to live or not, specially if all the signs are there for a new life, and that is (generally) what a pregnant woman means.
If there is some "abort mission" button somewhere that I'm not aware of, I don't know, but generally for me all I can see is if there is a pregnant woman there is a new life. That's a reason enough to let it be delivered. Inspite of the unfavorable outside factors or the woman completely changing her mind. Therefore marriage is a sacred bond, and religions were restricting men/women interactions, perhaps in order not to fall into this shit storm of "I got pregnant but I don't want it".
It is a good thing to argue about. If you take a look around you find that an immense amount of children grow up under miserable conditions, so miserable that most of them die and those who survive do not live any particular lives either. It is not so difficult to justify an abortion then for the sake of being human.
You have to think beyond your immediate sphere before you ytter something.
A child which grows up under insecure conditions with missing/neglectful parents may very well grow up to be one of those broken souls who wander around on Earth. It is then better that those who really want to have a child have them.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
It is a good thing to argue about. If you take a look around you find that an immense amount of children grow up under miserable conditions, so miserable that most of them die and those who survive do not live any particular lives either. It is not so difficult to justify an abortion then for the sake of being human.
World will always be a challenge, most people live beyond the line of poverty, not everyone lives by Sweden standards. So if a single irresponsible family commits abortion and won't let an uborn to become a poor soul that will wander the Earth, it will probably be born somewhere on the steets of India.
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World will always be a challenge, most people live beyond the line of poverty, not everyone lives by Sweden standards. So if a single irresponsible family commits abortion and won't let an uborn to become a poor soul that will wander the Earth, it will probably be born somewhere on the steets of India.
That is true though, you cannot evade your destiny which is determined by who you were and if you made yourself miserable so you shall also be miserable.
This is why there will always be misery, for as long as mankind does not improve.
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So if I make myself "miserable" I shall come back as"miserable" somewhere else?
I tell you what Man Of Faith ,I shall make myself "Stand outside" ,you would then say that I shall come back as "Out Standing"!!!!That philosophy does not make sense to me brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
That is true though, you cannot evade your destiny which is determined by who you were and if you made yourself miserable so you shall also be miserable.
This is why there will always be misery, for as long as mankind does not improve.
Depends on what you understand as misery. Say someone lives a very miserable lonely and depressed life. So if he/she somehow does better in this life, in the next life he might be driving Ferrari and have a lot of friends, women and money? But isn't it a vicious circle? All people are different, most people are not believers or righteous muslims, does not matter if they are miserable or 'happy', which are in itself quite flexible terms. Living depressed and 'miserable' life can be as devastating and pointless as living a life in happiness and full of joy.
So if I make myself "miserable" I shall come back as"miserable" somewhere else?
I tell you what Man Of Faith ,I shall make myself "Stand outside" ,you would then say that I shall come back as "Out Standing"!!!!It depends on what you mean by "stand outside", if that means being faint-hearted then that is indeed miserable. From what I understand the Scripture is all about teaching it, even if you are surrounded by the group of ISIS soldiers, you kinda still have "the last say".
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Makaveli,What? Are you serious? Standing outside?
I mean it is so cold to "stand outside" at this time of year(wrong thread for the shape of the earth,you know the And earth turning for day/night/seasons...) Bearing in mind I was the first to complain about the heat this last summer!
I am not going outside until the temperature is above my age outside.To stay on topic,here is my message for this thread
BOYCOTT male OPPRESSORS!!!.Anyway,you know the other thread about talking ants,well here are talking cows and of course"standing outside"
Two cows are standing outside in the field,one cow said to the other"MOOOOO".
The other cow said"pretty much the same thing-MOOOO TOO-.There you go brother,pretty much three threads in one!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace -
To stay on topic,here is my message for this thread
BOYCOTT male OPPRESSORS!!!.And who gave you the power to boycott anything? Who are they to prohibit and who are YOU to allow? Why they should listen to a fascist who likes to ALLOW somethings and BOYCOTT oppression. Why do they need your consent? Why do they need men to allow them a right to drive? See, tyranny has dual edges.
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And who gave you the power to boycott anything? Who are they to prohibit and who are YOU to allow? Why they should listen to a fascist who likes to ALLOW somethings and BOYCOTT oppression. Why do they need your consent? Why do they need men to allow them a right to drive? See, tyranny has dual edges.
Somebody is living or at least hearing from another planet, or may be galaxy.
yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
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Somebody is living or at least hearing from another planet, or may be galaxy.
Maybe, or perhaps inhabitants of this planet are too foolish to understand the simplest of things. Now tell me who is going to lift a ban on abortion in a state where it is in place? Who lifted the driving ban for women in S.A? Aren't these the same people who put the ban in the first place?
If you believe you have a right don't wait for anybody to lift the ban for you. Oh you can't you will get fined, dear...cry cry.
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Maybe, or perhaps inhabitants of this planet are too foolish to understand the simplest of things. Now tell me who is going to lift a ban on abortion in a state where it is in place? Who lifted the driving ban for women in S.A? Aren't these the same people who put the ban in the first place?
If you believe you have a right don't wait for anybody to lift the ban for you. Oh you can't you will get fined, dear...cry cry.
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi jedi O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0