Hoor al ein
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Hello new frustrated feminist forum member,
they say because the sexual desire of women is not like the men , what if i told you women have the same sexual desire as men but they dont go around raping people or sexually harassing them?
Proof?
I personally speaking , ( i know this topic when it comes to women is considered taboo but i just needed to get it out there ) wouldnt like to only have my husband with me in paradise , i mean having one person in life and in the hereafter for eternity while he can have 4 in this life and 70 in the hereafter? Does this sound right to you ? And the fact that its 70 virgin women who dont age, mensturate, give birth , is disgusting and perverted because this way , theyre objectifying women by saying they dont bear childeren , isnt the whole point of having sexual intercouse to bear childeren and extend the nation of islam? I understand why most men in islam defend hadith , because if it wasnt for hadith , their women would have actual human rights , if i was a man i dont think i would ever want to think about the possibility of hadith not being authentic because , because of it im treated like a king and a pimp and all i have to do is go to work .
So this brings me to wonder why any man would ever want to become a quranist?Who says you will be with your husband in the garden? Where is your proof?
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You do realize she is a sunni newcomer here, right?
Your point? Is she exempt from me questioning her beliefs and/or her making unproven claims?
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Your point? Is she exempt from me questioning her beliefs and/or her making unproven claims?
She is not, in fact she critizes some of the core sectarian beliefs i.e. she is looking for support, and how do you treat her? Shame on you. A warm welcome indeed.
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She is not, in fact she critizes some of the core sectarian beliefs i.e. she is looking for support, and how do you treat her? Shame on you. A warm welcome indeed.
I will ignore your white-knighting and emotional response. Lots of prejudice against men and unfounded claims in her post. Thus I am questioning her about them.
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When i was little i never really cared about the fact that men in paradise receive 70/72 virgin women to have sexual intercourse with , i just didnt understand what it meant , but growing up and understanding it i became disgusted of it , because according to traditional muslims the women will be brain washed into not being jealous and she will only have her husband , and the husband will have 70 something more virgin women to sleep with , they say because the sexual desire of women is not like the men , what if i told you women have the same sexual desire as men but they dont go around raping people or sexually harassing them? I personally speaking , ( i know this topic when it comes to women is considered taboo but i just needed to get it out there ) wouldnt like to only have my husband with me in paradise , i mean having one person in life and in the hereafter for eternity while he can have 4 in this life and 70 in the hereafter? Does this sound right to you ? And the fact that its 70 virgin women who dont age, mensturate, give birth , is disgusting and perverted because this way , theyre objectifying women by saying they dont bear childeren , isnt the whole point of having sexual intercouse to bear childeren and extend the nation of islam? I understand why most men in islam defend hadith , because if it wasnt for hadith , their women would have actual human rights , if i was a man i dont think i would ever want to think about the possibility of hadith not being authentic because , because of it im treated like a king and a pimp and all i have to do is go to work .
So this brings me to wonder why any man would ever want to become a quranist?Salaam, betterlife,
You have to realise that the Qur'an has really been written all over while not touching a single letter in it. It has been written all over by the very efficient and wellproved system of being given "its meaning", line, after line, page after page, by supposed knowers of its real meaning.
Whenever anything shocks you, just don't take it. Research. Today, unfortunately we re told many things. We have no proof that those things hve been the things that have been upheld ever since the Qur'an was revealed. There has always been a lot of different or comletely different interpretations of the Qur'an.
Today we are given to understand tht those interprettions are unanimous and that if we attemt to reject them we are innovatin. That is the first anormous lie by people who are very comfortable with thir Iblees male fire nature and rebeliousness to God, while changing the Qur'an, not in the print but in the ctual knowledge.The first time the Qur'an speaks about the fire and the garden it says that what it is saying is mathal, that is, allegorical, or metaphra or however you want to put it. In fact that is the only way to give an ide of something which we cannot know with our capacity at present. It is as if we try to give to a blind person a description of green. How would yougo about it? May be say it fresh? cool? you try to convey some sensation of the sensations caused by the green colour, right?
So the garden is described in those terms int he Qur'an, we are told ob inmense peace and satisfaction and beauty, real beauty thatbeauty that fills the soul with happiness and complete satisfction and we are told that we will be in company, in the most beautiful, sincere, pure company, deeply satisfying. Is it not tht longing that fills our deepest longings. You may see beauty more in one sex than in another, weare told of young boys also in paradise, those and all other description would be the equivalent of our saying "green is fresh". God is telling us that full, deep, pure, guiltless satisfaction will be ours. Beyond that, the 72 virgings or whatever nonsense is ntohign but sex jokes like there are so many around, but some idiots take them as prohecies, because they are sex obssessed.
Take the Qur'an and make it your job to get at it without any intermmediary. It may take you many, many years, but you will get really a pre-taste of the janna, when you get to its purity, its warmth, its affection... Do not take any interpretation, and they are all interpretations, that shocks your most inner sense of truth and justice. You are in the world, you are not blind, you see all around all the make-believes that cloud our perceptions which are preset on us thorugh the invironment wehave absorbed trough life. Throw all that out, and take your deepest self as the best guide you have at hand. God says in the Qur'anseveral times he created His Creation with truth. You know because you suffer that many things are not truth. Follow your best aspirations.
Salaam
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Don't be influenced by traditionalist thinking in any way shape or form, stay away from this cancer, best advice I can tell anyone here. God is just, so anyone uttering nonsense about god committed a big mistake. Don't try to deduce whether your reward will be equal to that of men, because god surely doesn't discriminate anyone on the basis of classifications as we know them in this world such as race, gender, or whatnot...
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isnt the whole point of having sexual intercouse to bear childeren and extend the nation of islam?
Exactly.. that's the ultimate goal of creating the religion of Islam (or Catholics or Orthodox or other organized religion or ideology). Extending the dominion / power of a political entity with the expense of other political entity such as the Kufr, the infidel, the apostate, the pagans, the unbeliever, the barbarian, the natives, the primitives, the communist or other political labelling).
Let's sink that for a moment.. that's actually the goal, the objective of creating a religion...
Now.. in order to achieve that goal, the most effective mean are through invasion and war...
In order to invade; the king/caliph/sultan/prophet/emperor need an ARMY...
In order to build an ARMY, one need MEN... I repeat Adult / Young MEN, not women or children or 'senior'.
During ancient and medieval era, the survivability rate of men standing in the front ranks are merely 20-30% regardless of the outcome of the battle. Thus 70-80% of those men will be dead during their first battle.
The men standing in front ranks are usually youngster, the lowest rank of the troop, the new recruit, aged between teenager to early 20.
How a caliph / warlord could motivate those teenager to go to war for him if the survivability rate is very low??
What should be his reward? if he most probably ends up dead??Hmmm..... aha!
72 Virgins in Heaven!!
Every teenage boys dream come true....Boys.. even when you die during the battle for my... erggh i mean Allah's cause, you will get your reward from Allah.. I repeat from Allah.. not from me.... Allah will reward you with 72 virgins in heaven when you die in the battlefield (shuhada)!!
Brilliant... isn't it?
No need to spend anything from the treasury to motivate those kids to die for me..If only those young boys have some (critical) brain left in them, they should reply back with
"Mr Sultan / Caliph, if you truly believe you will get 72 virgins when you die in the battle, why not YOU stand with us in the front rank? Why not you be the first to die in battle?? Why you order us to die first in the battle before you do? Why you are staying behind while we are standing in the front rank to face YOUR enemy?"The invention of 72 virgins reward, are targeted towards young men, no (straight) female or children will find such reward 'interesting' but they're not the 'target audience' of such dogma anyway...
So this brings me to wonder why any man would ever want to become a quranist?
I always wondered why any FEMALE would ever want to become a member and supporter of such misogynist religion..
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I always wondered why any FEMALE would ever want to become a member and supporter of such misogynist religion..
They are attracted by the sounds of azans and grotesque of the mosque, then they are told lies about how religion does not deprieve women from their rights, so they try to stick to 'good' hadiths vs the rest, but even when they do as usually religious people use apologetics. And there is nothing more stupid than muhhamedian apologetics. They basically say
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he did not personally behead 700 people, he only commanded or
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yeah he commanded to behead 700 people so what? they were traitors or
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hey you got in wrong on aisha she was 12 and not 9...thanks for letting me know I guess, it absoluetely changes the perspective!
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So this brings me to wonder why any man would ever want to become a quranist?
Because we care about the truth and not some other ideals like traditionalists (and perhaps you.) Is that so hard to grasp?
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why any man would ever want to become a quranist?
Both men and women have something to "gain" from hadiths. The collections are a great scheme in teaching how to get away with crimes and not feel accountable at all.
It is like this
Do what thou wilt and then clean it with salat
Do what thou wilt all months except ramadanBy the approval of the mullahs
Hello new frustrated feminist forum member,
Proof?
Who says you will be with your husband in the garden? Where is your proof?
It is her first stage. Don't expect her to know all at once. Also it takes some time to get out of the old world views/misconceptions. We all have been there and of course, we haven't discontinued )
Prejudice against women in most hislamic cultures is quite daunting. My mom also debated over the issues betterlife brought up. I wish I could show you the hadiths once one mullah published on FB on how husbands were to treat their wives. It literally was a guide to becoming bdsm practitioner with a pinch of how to forever bring up an adopted female child with whom you are gonna sleep beginning from the wedding day!!!