Length of Salat al-Isha
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You may find this thread useful
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598319.0You may have already read it.
And there is also this for the timing in 1778
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.htmlWhere could these multiple edges fit in?
It just so happens there has been some variance amongst those following The Quran with regard to when 'salat al-3sha' begins based onUphold/establish the salat/bond (at) duluk al-shams* to the darkness of the night; and the quran/reading of dawn; indeed, the reading/quran of dawn is witnessed.
*Arabic root Dal-Lam-Kaf. This phrase is the starting point for one salat time period, see point 7 here for further discussion on this.From Project Root List
Dal-Lam-Kaf = rubbing, squeezing, pressing, decline, sinking, become red, set, incline downwards from the meridian (sun). The phrase "duluk-as-shams" defined as "sunset" / setting of the sun / the sun became high, by Lane.
Two common interpretations have been to take "duluk al-shams" as "sunset" or "sinking/rubbing/pressing of the sun" (i.e. from when the lower edge of the sun disc rubs/touches the horizon). I have personally swayed between these two understandings. The primary signification of DLK is rubbing, and if this is coupled with 20130 wherein it says "before the setting/departing of the sun" then this would fit. In other words, "duluk al-shams" can mean when the sun's lower edge rubs the horizon BEFORE sunset.
If we consider one undertaking 'salat al-fajr' (the salat of/at dawn) then it is easy to realise one may crossover timewise into some point after sunrise, due to concentration/focus and/or finishing recitation/reading etc. In other words, going from "before the rising of the sun" (i.e. dawn) to after the sun's rising, i.e. "edges of the daytime" in this instance.
Thus, the "edges of the daytime" could be incorporated under the 'salat al-fajr' and 'salat al-3sha' periods, especially so if one wished to extend these periods in length. -
Good observation brother
However, think carefully are there no other verses to cross reference from?
Are there not other verses which describe prayer at night?
Is the Quran not a dual oft repeated Book?
Bring all the relevant ayaahs then begin to discuss and analyze -
Thank you brother,
there is necessarily no need for another verse, this verse is clear.11114 says to hold the contact prayer at both ends of the day and the approach of the night.
The approach of the night for Salat al-Isha would logically end at the darkness of the night because of 1778.
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11114 says to hold the contact prayer at both ends of the day and the approach of the night.
You might know this already
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.htmlA minor inconsistency in the article, i.e. "zulafan" is Arabic plural (i.e. 3 or more) meaning it should be "approaches of/from the night".
The point you raise was discussed previously if I recall correctly, and an example given was 56 wherein it says wash hands ila/to elbow, i.e. do X A to B, it does not mean wash a part between A to B. The challenge was put out that if you think it means a subsection between A and B (or parts between A and B) to provide a comparable example in Quran to backup your translation of 1778 (i.e. multiple salat inbetween A and B, not one continuous timeframe as the verse clearly implies). I am not aware of one.
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Thank you brother,
there is necessarily no need for another verse, this verse is clear.11114 says to hold the contact prayer at both ends of the day and the approach of the night.
The approach of the night for Salat al-Isha would logically end at the darkness of the night because of 1778.
Nope you are being a bit stubborn.
"Thanks but I have no need to investigate what you say because I have already figured it out"
That is not the best approach to learning.
Did you think I just made a suggestion to you to waste both of our time?
By no means! It is because you are completely forgetting about a bunch of specific passages that go along with the topic of salat at night!
Humility is a key to the treasure chest of knowledge brother. -
I did not mean to be rude brother, you have misunderstood me I am sorry, if you understood it that way.
But there are just 2 verses which mention salat al isha namely 1778 and 2458I did not say Thanks but I have no need to investigate what you say because I have already figured it out , but because the verse is clear. Clear in the timing from duluk asshams till ghasaqi al layl, one whole timeframe
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So because one verse is clear does that mean you need not to consider the whole Quran?
I would not at all be too bothered if you were simply rude to me, who cares. The thing is you are being arrogant with God's Word assuming you need not review your position or accept another perspective when we are all simply human. You may as well potentially lead others astray by being bent up on a way which forces others to do something that they are not required to do to such an extent.
You should be careful that is all.Do not be a hard rock be more like a sponge. You see the sponge some deem as weak but it is rooted in the sediment and it is stubborn not it allows the strong current to permeate it and encompass it completely.
731-9
O you who wraps himself!
Stand (in) the night, except a little,
Half of it, or lessen from it a little,
Or add to it, and recite the Quran (with) measured rhythmic recitation.
Indeed, We will cast upon you a Word heavy.
Indeed, (the) rising (at) the night, it (is) very hard and most potent and more suitable (for) Word.
Indeed, for you in the day (is) occupation prolonged.
And remember (the) name (of) your Lord and devote yourself to Him (with) devotion.7320
Indeed, your Lord knows that you stand (a little) less than two-thirds (of) the night, and half of it and a third of it and (so do) a group of those who (are) with you. And Allah determines the night and the day. He knows that not you count it, so He has turned to you, so recite what is easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be among you sick and others traveling in the land seeking of (the) Bounty (of) Allah, and others fighting in (the) way (of) Allah. So recite what is easy of it, and establish the prayer and give the zakah and loan Allah a loan goodly. And whatever you send forth for yourselves of good, you will find it with Allah. It (will be) better and greater (in) reward. And seek forgiveness (of) Allah. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. -
But your verses do not mention Salat al-Isha.
- That is irrelevant.
- This entire chapter is talking about reciting Quran at night. Literally what else could it be other than salat al-isha?!
- Your research method needs much improvement
(Look for all related passages when investigating a topic. Never be content with one ayat alone or you will eventually follow your own desire)
(Something doesn't have to be specifically mentioned to be related, like cmon bro)
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It is THE interpretation.
And I never said it contradicted anything.
However it does specifically demonstrate that God Has turned in Mercy towards the believers and granted them ability to lessen the Night Prayer by reciting what is easy from the Quran instead of the entire Book or Long Passages.
Please apply logic and critical thinking don't be arrogant
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Good (Y), so you agree with me that it should be the whole timeframe.
So do you also think that ghasaqi al-layl is starting with astronomical twilight? That would mean a 2h salat.
Yes, that would be the ideal. I personally do not think Quran is ultra strict on the time length. The key guideline, in my view, is that it's daily/regular (for the mumineen).
And yes it is in the singular. This is also discussed in the links I gave previously, e.g.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm
