If Qur'an solves the differences, then why so many interpretations?
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Salaam brother,
I hope you are fine )We have disagreements over matters, but it does not mean matters themselves are in disagreements. All disagreements are over our understanding of matters, not between matters. One usually does not really make logical error in reasoning. Most of the errors are rooted from our understanding of matters, they are conceptual errors. One should ask the right question to obtain the right answer.
Again, I've given the AYAT from the Quran itself to proof my claim. I would like you to give me some proof from the Quran itself to proof that point because.
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).
This AYAT is clearly saying that if Quran was written by someone else, they would have found in it (Quran) much disagreements.
See the wordings used. It says "MUCH DISAGREEMENTS" (IKHTILAFAN KATHIRA). That means, we can have some disagreements and not MUCH according to that AYAT.
So if we had SOME difference it would be okay on that. BUT it says "MUCH DISAGREEMENTS" and yes we do have much disagreements on the basics.
'If Quran solves the differences, then why so many interpretations?' is itself is wrong question. Quran is guidance and advice for mankind, it does not solve any problem. People do the interpretations based on their understanding of the facts selected by themselves. Hence any disagreements as result of different understandings of people and based on their own selection of facts, should not be attributed to Quran.
Why would Quran use words which we don't understand or difficult to understand or agree while it says
All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has sent down to His slave the Book, and has not placed therein any crookedness.
So it says there is no CROOKEDNESS in the BOOK but yet we can't agree on simple matters?
Thanks for your time and effort! )
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Just a comment. You are suggesting that referring God and referring Quran is same thing. Do you think God and Quran is same?
I think Quran is from God, referring to God and Messager is not same thing as referring to Quran.What's your explanation on that?
I've been seeing over and over again that everyone is referring to God means referring to Quran because you can't refer it God as He is not present physically with you to solve the differences. -
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).
This AYAT is clearly saying that if Quran was written by someone else, they would have found in it (Quran) much disagreements.
See the wordings used. It says "MUCH DISAGREEMENTS" (IKHTILAFAN KATHIRA). That means, we can have some disagreements and not MUCH according to that AYAT.
No you keep posting the same stuff it?s not talking about us disagreeing.
Rather in context, talking about finding divergences/variations in qur'an.
482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of fhi/in it ikhtilafan/divergences/variations of (written with trailing alif single occurrence!) kathiran/much of (i.e. many or 3+)
Read as in verse below it's not "disagreements" the night and the daytime.
106 indeed in ikh'tilfi/divergences/variations the night and the daytime and what create the god in the heavens and the land surely signs for folk righteous being
Peace!
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Salaam everyone,
I got the answer for while I was offering my ASR SALAT.I still have confusion on the following AYAT-
O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.
How to refer it to Allah? hmm
For Messenger, I can understand that he is not among us now. But what about refer it to Allah? It doesn't say refer it to the "Quran"
So if we disagree over anything, we must refer it to Allah... How to do that?
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Salaam huruf, thanks for your time and explanation.
That still doesn't answer my question though.
My question is IF God already told us to refer to God and His messenger if we are in disagreement, then WHY do we still differ?
You see, we will not agree on "HOW TO PRAY?" so that's a difference of course between us.IF, we refer it to GOD (that is the Quran), still we have differences because some will argue the salat is physically done while others says it's not physical. So that's a huge difference according to me. Or you have to come up with a new definition of the word "difference"
If it was really not a issue, it would have been very simple right? Like, when God says to refer it to HIM, so when we refer it to HIM we still find confusions and not the exact answer.
Suppose, we are confused on SALAT. IF it was simple, God would tell us clearly that "Salat means this and that" and not use words of confusions..
NOTE-
I am not asking these because of doubt or something. I need to present my counter arguments. It might help all of us to learn something from each other. )Salaaam, armom
You are mixing two things which are about different questions.
The refer to God, the prophet those in charge is aya 4.59 as you well quoted. And I explained that that, when you read it in the context as well as in other ayas on the same context that differing or disputing, which is a different word from ikhtilaaf, it is tanaaza3, refers to questions on which the collectivity or more than to people have to act, that is it is not a matter of different opinion but a matter of having to take a course for more more than one people. If no agreement can be reached then youhave to refer to a third party, that is obvious, the first third party for any believer is God, when the prophet was alive and in authority, he was the highest third party, other than that those inc harge are the third party. You go to an administration in charge, to a court in charge, to anybody incharge of the specific matter.
This is clear and plain to me and it has nothing to do with the inconsistencies in the Qur'an.
You give as example how to pray. In what way any difference as to your idea of how to pray and the ideas of others prevent you from praying? Nothing, asbsolutely nothing prevents you from praying any way you think fit, nothing prevents anybody from praying the way they seem fit. However anybody understands the ayas on salaa if we understand them as praying, prevent anybody at all from praying.
Now you may say, but what about collective praying, well you are your lord, you may join others to pray even if you do not agree 100% that that is the way it is instructed, since otherwise you will not be able to pray collectively or you try to convince someone else to pray with you the way you think is right. Or may be you simply accept that there are many ways for a prayer to be right.
Or you take a provicional course and hope some time to understand better and reach an agreement. God knows you mean your best when you pray, so no problem as far as I can see.
You think that the instructions should be clear at least on that so that there is no disagreement. I do not know how old you are, but from this it gives the impression that you are rather young. What can I say NO matter how clear it could be stated, I assure you, there would be disagreements. The world is the way it is in its every detail and we are all witnesses, perfect witnesses, we are present in the world and yet we all disagree on many immediate things, which we see and touch. See the example given by wiseman. The world is as real and present a creation of God as the Qur'an. What makes you think that there should not be any differences of perception and understanding on the Qur'an? But there is no inconsistency in the Qur'an just as there is no inconsistency in the world.
We will no die for not agreeing nor be condemned in sha' Allah for disagreeing, if we are loyal and honest in our disagreements, not merely vain and self-seeking.
Salaam
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Brother armom, you said you were offering your Asr SALAT, how did you do that?
May be you refer your disagreements to Allah in the same way?
By direct contact, imploring talking to Allah
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaaam, armom
You are mixing two things which are about different questions.
The refer to God, the prophet those in charge is aya 4.59 as you well quoted. And I explained that that, when you read it in the context as well as in other ayas on the same context that differing or disputing, which is a different word from ikhtilaaf, it is tanaaza3, refers to questions on which the collectivity or more than to people have to act, that is it is not a matter of different opinion but a matter of having to take a course for more more than one people. If no agreement can be reached then youhave to refer to a third party, that is obvious, the first third party for any believer is God, when the prophet was alive and in authority, he was the highest third party, other than that those inc harge are the third party. You go to an administration in charge, to a court in charge, to anybody incharge of the specific matter.
This is clear and plain to me and it has nothing to do with the inconsistencies in the Qur'an.
You give as example how to pray. In what way any difference as to your idea of how to pray and the ideas of others prevent you from praying? Nothing, asbsolutely nothing prevents you from praying any way you think fit, nothing prevents anybody from praying the way they seem fit. However anybody understands the ayas on salaa if we understand them as praying, prevent anybody at all from praying.
Now you may say, but what about collective praying, well you are your lord, you may join others to pray even if you do not agree 100% that that is the way it is instructed, since otherwise you will not be able to pray collectively or you try to convince someone else to pray with you the way you think is right. Or may be you simply accept that there are many ways for a prayer to be right.
Or you take a provicional course and hope some time to understand better and reach an agreement. God knows you mean your best when you pray, so no problem as far as I can see.
You think that the instructions should be clear at least on that so that there is no disagreement. I do not know how old you are, but from this it gives the impression that you are rather young. What can I say NO matter how clear it could be stated, I assure you, there would be disagreements. The world is the way it is in its every detail and we are all witnesses, perfect witnesses, we are present in the world and yet we all disagree on many immediate things, which we see and touch. See the example given by wiseman. The world is as real and present a creation of God as the Qur'an. What makes you think that there should not be any differences of perception and understanding on the Qur'an? But there is no inconsistency in the Qur'an just as there is no inconsistency in the world.
We will no die for not agreeing nor be condemned in sha' Allah for disagreeing, if we are loyal and honest in our disagreements, not merely vain and self-seeking.
Salaam
Salaam!
Thanks huruf. )
BTW, what it got to do with young or old? I believe the deen is for everyone correct? )
You will even find many old man who are strayed far away from God and many young people who are striving to find God pr
Brother armom, you said you were offering your Asr SALAT, how did you do that?
May be you refer your disagreements to Allah in the same way?
By direct contact, imploring talking to Allah
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salaam good logic,
So we must refer it to Allah through our prayers? is that what it means? -
Greetings!
Effective communication is still the hardest art to master for mankind, so hope everyone be more patient with each other, as none of us has the whole truth, but the partial truth regarding these topics.
You have given a verse from Quran
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much Ikhtilaaf (disagreements).
This verse states that there would be a lot of disagreements WITHIN the Quran if it was from other than God.
This is plain simple and means there would be much disagreements between AYATs, such as one AYAT disagree with another AYAT, in the Quran, if it was from other than God.
For example, man-made-laws, such as Human Rights Law, National Security Law, Constitution, Civil Law, always have different priority and sometimes they have different ruling about same matter. These are disagreements WITHIN law, not WITHIN judges or lawyers or people.But you said
That means, we can have some disagreements and not MUCH according to that AYAT.
The AYAT you have given talks about disagreements WITHIN Quran, but you are here talking about disagreements WITHIN ourselves.
Disagreements in ourselves are disagreements WITHIN our understanding of Quran, it is not WITHIN Quran. We need to differentiate our understandings from Quran.We would have found much disagreements WITHIN the universe, if they have been created by more than one Gods. As such, we would have found much disagreements WITHIN Quran, if it was from other than God ( You are welcome to write a book or chapter like Quran to truly appreciate its divinity ).
You said
All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has sent down to His slave the Book, and has not placed therein any crookedness.
So it says there is no CROOKEDNESS in the BOOK but yet we can't agree on simple matters?There is no crookedness in the Book, yet again, you are still saying we cannot agree on simple matters. We are not the Book.
Please read what the AYAT says. No disagreements between the chapter or verses AYATs in the Book. Compare it to man-written book in which you will found many crookedness.I've been seeing over and over again that everyone is referring to God means referring to Quran because you can't refer it God as He is not present physically with you to solve the differences.
Many generations Muslims have fought to agree on their understanding of the Book. I think this was much due to politics. Because we can agree on very few matters. We would refer them to God and Messenger if they would talk back to us. If it was really important to agree on the number of prayers a day, it would be been clearly stated in the Book. Such as fasting is clearly stated in the Book that it is a month, many other matters.
I do not have explanation on referring to God. God mentions believing in Him and doing good deeds frequently in the Book. I even do not have explanation on what constitutes good deeds. Help others by doing what they could but did not do for themselves? Giving money to beggars who are actually richer than myself? So I try to stick to 'Live a righteous life' bit.
There are many questions I have been looking for answers over decades. I usually find comfort in believing in one God, and following the truth when i see it. I usually do not care much about questions regarding angles, prophets, life in paradise, hell, or nature or will of God, either because I never know the truth about these or it does not help my faith much. For anything else worldly, I agree with what a Chinese man once said "God has given us TWO Quran, one is the Book and the other is the World. They should interpret each other."
I really think it must have been very difficult job for the Messenger to think and reason all the time, at nights, to understand Quran and apply it to his daily life. I do not think the Messenger ever received answers to all his big or small daily questions and matters related to his community or struggles. If we were living with the Messenger, we could ask him how many times a day we should pray, and he might say ' pray at the times mentioned in the Quran whenever you can. '
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Salaam!
Thanks huruf. )
BTW, what it got to do with young or old? I believe the deen is for everyone correct? )
You will even find many old man who are strayed far away from God and many young people who are striving to find God pr
Salaam good logic,
So we must refer it to Allah through our prayers? is that what it means?No strayed or anything, armom, age is nto a moral fact but experience makes a difference. When you live long enough you see many things clearer than when you are young. Everybody who cares to reflect on things. You will get older an have more experience and will mature many things. it is not a question of being worse or better.
If you live long enough and observe, you will see that people always have differed and continue to difer and that won't bother you because you realise that that is the we we are and we live and then, may be you will not hope that everybody will agree on everything or on most things, not feel that that is so bad.
Salaam
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Why would Quran use words which we don't understand or difficult to understand or agree while ...
Quran is much simpler to follow and understand compared to scientific texts on theory of relativity or black holes.
The difficult part is that our mind is already wired with preconception, traditions, customs, especially if we are born in Muslim family.
Whatever we read of the Quran will be processed through these wires and we are confused between what Quran says and what we take from it. -
Salaam everyone,
What's your thought on this?
Salaam armom,
You need to understand that Quran as it become guidance for some people and at the same time it has a misleading part to some others..226 God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say "What does God intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
So please don't expect everyone will have the same understanding when reading it.
The Quran is a kind of "sealed book", only those who purified themselves can grasp it.
5677 It is an honorable Qur'an.
5678 In a protected Book.
5679 None can grasp it, except those purified.And to get the purified level,..you can start to do the things that you can easily grab from Quran, for example
9103 Take from their money a charity to sanctify them and purify them with it
Will you argue to someone about this charity and its interpretation? just do it brother.
7320 ...So read what is made easy of the Qur'an..
All the good things you do explained clearly in Quran,.. All you have to do is just doing this "easy-to-understand-parts" consistently.
And then Allah will show you the best interpretation, come to your mind.
2533 And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation/interpretation
And you will recognize it
2793 Say "Praise be to God, He will show you His signs and you will know them.
Do you believe in him as the best teacher?
551 Ar Rahman.
552 He has taught the Qur'an.
553 He has created man.
554 He taught him the explanation.But please keep it yourself,..not because you need to hide the truth,..but slowly you will realize that you can not argue to other people.. we are all at different stage, different pace to read Quran, and maybe different in interested topic.
3941 We have sent down to you the Book for the people with the truth. Then, whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own loss. And you are not a keeper over them.
and don't worry about your current understanding. Learning the Quran is a life-time process. If you think you haven't reach the best explanation for particular area,..just keep doing what you believe in today.. Because the best interpretation/explanation is kind of gift from God if you do what you are believe in or saying consistently.
612 O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do?
613 It is most despicable with God that you would say what you do not do.At the end of the day, it's not about the best interpretation or majority concencus,.. but you do the things that you are believe in consistently, until the best interpretation comes to you.
Salaam
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Yes indeed brother armom.
Those who "try their best to mirror GOD s attribute" and find some issues/disagreements/confusing matters... ask about Allah, I will say to them Allah is near, Allah will respond to them .
Yes, just ask Allah.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam armom,
You need to understand that Quran as it become guidance for some people and at the same time it has a misleading part to some others..226 God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say "What does God intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
So please don't expect everyone will have the same understanding when reading it.
The Quran is a kind of "sealed book", only those who purified themselves can grasp it.
5677 It is an honorable Qur'an.
5678 In a protected Book.
5679 None can grasp it, except those purified.And to get the purified level,..you can start to do the things that you can easily grab from Quran, for example
9103 Take from their money a charity to sanctify them and purify them with it
Will you argue to someone about this charity and its interpretation? just do it brother.
7320 ...So read what is made easy of the Qur'an..
All the good things you do explained clearly in Quran,.. All you have to do is just doing this "easy-to-understand-parts" consistently.
And then Allah will show you the best interpretation, come to your mind.
2533 And for every example they come to you with, We bring you the truth and the best explanation/interpretation
And you will recognize it
2793 Say "Praise be to God, He will show you His signs and you will know them.
Do you believe in him as the best teacher?
551 Ar Rahman.
552 He has taught the Qur'an.
553 He has created man.
554 He taught him the explanation.But please keep it yourself,..not because you need to hide the truth,..but slowly you will realize that you can not argue to other people.. we are all at different stage, different pace to read Quran, and maybe different in interested topic.
3941 We have sent down to you the Book for the people with the truth. Then, whoever is guided is guided for himself, and whoever goes astray goes astray to his own loss. And you are not a keeper over them.
and don't worry about your current understanding. Learning the Quran is a life-time process. If you think you haven't reach the best explanation for particular area,..just keep doing what you believe in today.. Because the best interpretation/explanation is kind of gift from God if you do what you are believe in or saying consistently.
612 O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do?
613 It is most despicable with God that you would say what you do not do.At the end of the day, it's not about the best interpretation or majority concencus,.. but you do the things that you are believe in consistently, until the best interpretation comes to you.
Salaam
Salaam dear brother Lihawa. You haven't posted for 2 years. Welcome back. welcome welcome
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Thanks huruf and good logic!
Greetings!
Effective communication is still the hardest art to master for mankind, so hope everyone be more patient with each other, as none of us has the whole truth, but the partial truth regarding these topics.
You have given a verse from Quran
This verse states that there would be a lot of disagreements WITHIN the Quran if it was from other than God.
This is plain simple and means there would be much disagreements between AYATs, such as one AYAT disagree with another AYAT, in the Quran, if it was from other than God.
For example, man-made-laws, such as Human Rights Law, National Security Law, Constitution, Civil Law, always have different priority and sometimes they have different ruling about same matter. These are disagreements WITHIN law, not WITHIN judges or lawyers or people.But you said
The AYAT you have given talks about disagreements WITHIN Quran, but you are here talking about disagreements WITHIN ourselves.
Disagreements in ourselves are disagreements WITHIN our understanding of Quran, it is not WITHIN Quran. We need to differentiate our understandings from Quran.We would have found much disagreements WITHIN the universe, if they have been created by more than one Gods. As such, we would have found much disagreements WITHIN Quran, if it was from other than God ( You are welcome to write a book or chapter like Quran to truly appreciate its divinity ).
You said
There is no crookedness in the Book, yet again, you are still saying we cannot agree on simple matters. We are not the Book.
Please read what the AYAT says. No disagreements between the chapter or verses AYATs in the Book. Compare it to man-written book in which you will found many crookedness.Many generations Muslims have fought to agree on their understanding of the Book. I think this was much due to politics. Because we can agree on very few matters. We would refer them to God and Messenger if they would talk back to us. If it was really important to agree on the number of prayers a day, it would be been clearly stated in the Book. Such as fasting is clearly stated in the Book that it is a month, many other matters.
I do not have explanation on referring to God. God mentions believing in Him and doing good deeds frequently in the Book. I even do not have explanation on what constitutes good deeds. Help others by doing what they could but did not do for themselves? Giving money to beggars who are actually richer than myself? So I try to stick to 'Live a righteous life' bit.
There are many questions I have been looking for answers over decades. I usually find comfort in believing in one God, and following the truth when i see it. I usually do not care much about questions regarding angles, prophets, life in paradise, hell, or nature or will of God, either because I never know the truth about these or it does not help my faith much. For anything else worldly, I agree with what a Chinese man once said "God has given us TWO Quran, one is the Book and the other is the World. They should interpret each other."
I really think it must have been very difficult job for the Messenger to think and reason all the time, at nights, to understand Quran and apply it to his daily life. I do not think the Messenger ever received answers to all his big or small daily questions and matters related to his community or struggles. If we were living with the Messenger, we could ask him how many times a day we should pray, and he might say ' pray at the times mentioned in the Quran whenever you can. '
Thanks for the nice explanation wiseman.
as for the BOLD one, isn't it a part of faith to believe in these?
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets...
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Greetings!
armom
Thanks for the quote from Quran. I do accept / believe angles, prophets, paradise, hell, it is just that i do not have knowledge about these except what is in the Quran, and I do not contemplate much to understand more, as they are beyond my comprehension / reasoning.tlihawa
Salaam armom,
You need to understand that Quran as it become guidance for some people and at the same time it has a misleading part to some others..226 God does not shy away from putting forth the example of a mosquito, or anything above it. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for the rejecters, they say "What does God intend with this example?" He strays many by it, and He guides many by it; but He only strays by it the wicked.
I enjoyed your writing. I do not agree that there is anything misleading in Quran. 226 is about someone taking a wrong interpretation from an example because of their truth bending / denying intentions, while others taking guidance from the same example because of for their truth seeking intentions.
I am sure you did not mean that. I just want to clarify this for some readers who might get the wrong impression that Quran has misleading content. There is no way Quran has any misleading part, because having a misleading part is contradictory it is being divine guidance.
Quran is divine book, and contains truth only. We sometime might project our misunderstanding onto it because of our misplaced intentions. Misplaced intentions usually take the forms of showing off our knowledge, trying to influence understanding of others even we hold the truth, trying to impose our understanding on others, and give others the impression that we hold some authority on interpreting the Book. These misplaced (mostly political ) intentions among Muslims are the common cause of getting the wrong interpretation from the Book and result in them / us being mislead, not by the Quran, but by our own misplaced intentions (obviously deniers try to distort and misinterpret the Book with totally different intentions ).
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The "misleading" part, I think none of us who believe in the Qur'an as a guide, think that it is misleading, it may have been a way to explain that those who won't be guided, will find a way to be misled int he words from the Qur'an, not because the Qur'an is misleading but because their will and purposes are not sincere, or not sincere enough.
Like we would say in common parlance, we cling to "technicalities". We rely on witty turning of words around so that they "may" mean whatever suits our lack of sincerity. When there is not the will there will always be a way to twist arguments.
Cardinal Richelieu said once Give me three lines written by the most innocent person on earth and I will find in them grounds enough to have him hanged.
I think, instintively, we all knwo that, but still, in our eagerness to put in face of unbelievers a defence of the Qur'an that would do away with all objections, we insist that the Qur'an should contain a "clear" rebuttal of every human excuse on earth. To do that, we would not have 300 pages of Qur'an but three hundred millions of them.
The capacity for alibis and excuses is limitless. But nothing can hide lack of will or lack of pure intention.
Whoever wants to be guided by the Qur'an, will be guided, whoever just wants to show that the Qur'an is false and wrong will never run out of arguments, and giving more explanations than is reasonable is a waste fo tine. It is fine to give as many as we are able and are required by well intentionned people, but let us not tire ourselves and feel guilty whenever we cannot "shut up" the deniers. We are not their saprrings.
Salaam
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I agree sister huruf. Well said.
The way to GOD is an ongoing journey, it ends at death.
Unlike other journeys which end at their destinations, and they are like mirages ,because they vanish at the end on this life. GOD s journey finishes at reality when you find only GOD there.
For example. if I am going to Barcelona, my journey ends when I get to Barcelona. I then know for a fact my journey has ended.
But with GOD journey, you may never get there in this life, you have to keep going until your last breath.
The worse thing that happens to us is when we think we have the truth, we stop the journey, this sometimes mean we have hit a brick wall, reached a dead end.
It may also mean refresh/reflect, but we must carry on with a new attitude/priorities/different ways... We must be brave and carry on the journey, even if we change direction. We must persevere and challenge ourselves to carry on the journey.
Stopping sets us on our ways and brings in "my mind is made up" syndrome.
Of course our guide must remain GOD s scripture and our lead GOD Alone.
Best of luck on your journey brothers and sisters.
GOD bless.
Peace.
