Question for the people with knowledge
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Why would i need another verse? Isn't one single divine verse from God enough? Yes others verses confirm that he is a Jinn. So what? Does it erase the 234 verse? Do you have any evidence that you can't be Jinn and malaka at the same time? Do you have evidence that the qur'an is perfect and divine?Because God speaks of malaika and not of a specific group among malaika. Infact in 1649 all creatures and malaika from the earth and heaven obey. The subject is "whatever in the earth and whatever in the heaven of creatures and malaika". So not only no specific group from malaika is mentioned, but the "all malaika" interpretation (the most basic one) is further backed by the words (what is in the earth and what is in the heaven).
Most basic one? Forgive me but what do you mean by that?
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that it is the first thing you understand when you read it.
You sadly lost me. No offense.
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I lost you? what do you mean?
I mean i did not understand your comment.
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I mean i did not understand your comment.
i meant that the first time you read 1649, you understand that malaika are obedient. Good logic probably believed this too the first time, he now claims it doesn't speak of all malaika because people showed the contradiction of iblis being a disobedient malaka in 234.
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i meant that the first time you read 1649, you understand that malaika are obedient. Good logic probably believed this too the first time, he now claims it doesn't speak of all malaika because people showed the contradiction of iblis being a disobedient malaka in 234.
Oh but there is something i wanna ask them is that why in 1850 says specifically that Iblis was of the Jinn. That makes me doubt that the contradiction is true.
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Also i have not seen a verse saying Jinn never disobey orders from Allah (SWTAY) so i'm not quite sure if he was a malaika from the beginning.
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Sorry though i missed anything though since it's been a while of this conversation.
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@Noon waalqalami
general statement
- Americans (general) are humble and obey the law (true if 3+)
- Ju5 is arrogant and disobeyed the law (doesn't contradict #1)
When i said general statement, i meant it wasn't specific about malaika (like a part of them, most of them..). It just says "The malaika". I am not a native english, i misused "general statement".
Since there is no context for malaika except "whatever in the earth and whatever in the heaven of..", Allah surely speaks of all malaika, because allah is not a guy in a bar, and doesn't make "general statements", his words are truth always. So if he says malaika do what they are commanded, then it is so.
454 does not show that min can never speak of all when translated as "of"
4229 could be translated as of/from (even if wouldn't be good writing), "from his signs, is the creation of ..."
It says min/of dbbatin (each type/species e.g. monkeys, etc.)
Not every individual like Cheeta from Tarzan or character in Planet of the Apes.
1-You didn't debunk my argument in any way
2-You backed it up by admitting it speaks of each species.
454 And in the creation of yourselves and what He disperses of moving creatures are signs for people who are certain .
3-Are you claiming some animals are not signs from allah for the people?you lack structure (sloppy) and need to pay attention to words.
dbbatin (feminine) type like community, town, city, etc., with individual members.
1-groups are always made of individual members, you can still speak about all of them
2-malaika is masculine anyway so why do you even botherbecause of l- before malaika its "the" malaika so we must know who they are. but the verse doesn't tell us who they are, its not" the malaika i saw near the grocery store" neither "the malaika who stole my bike". Its The Malaika, There is no way it doesn't speak of all of them.
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Also i have not seen a verse saying Jinn never disobey orders from Allah (SWTAY) so i'm not quite sure if he was a malaika from the beginning.
it s written that he is a malaka in 234. why would you need a verse to show that jinn can never disobey. the solution is not saying " it is not possible to be both Jinn and malaka" because it is written nowhere in the qur'an. the solution is the qur'an contradicted itself . If you say iblis is not a malaka you contradict allah. if you say iblis is a malaka then the qur'an is not perfect.
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3-Are you claiming some animals are not signs from allah for the people?
I am reading his comment and no Noon is not saying that. (Unless i missed it.)
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it s written that he is a malaka in 234. why would you need a verse to show that jinn can never disobey. the solution is not saying " it is not possible to be both Jinn and malaka" because it is written nowhere in the qur'an. the solution is the qur'an contradicted itself . If you say iblis is not a malaka you contradict allah. if you say iblis is a malaka then the qur'an is not perfect.
Never said anything about not possible being both Jinn & Malaika and also never said that i need the verse saying Jinn never disobeying.
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Also 1850 clarifies that Iblis was of Jinn, if he was a malaika then Allah would have never said that he was of Jinn. (Sorry if this sounds repeating.)
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Also i found the next verse quite interesting, i'll post 1850 to 51. Don't know this could help us but here you go
1850
Wa-ith qulna lilmala-ikatiosjudoo li-adama fasajadoo illa ibleesa kanamina aljinni fafasaqa AAan amri rabbihi afatattakhithoonahuwathurriyyatahu awliyaa min doonee wahum lakumAAaduwwun bi/sa lilththalimeena badalan
And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam." So they all yielded except for Iblis. He was of the Jinn, he disobeyed the order of his Lord. Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy? Miserable for the transgressors is the substitute!1851
Ma ashhadtuhum khalqa alssamawatiwaal-ardi wala khalqa anfusihim wamakuntu muttakhitha almudilleena AAadudan
I did not make them witness the creation of the heavens and the earth, nor the creation of themselves. Nor do I take the misleaders as helpers. -
Peace Ju5.
Read your posts again. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of Qoran.
You are confusing sujud to GOD and free wiill. You do not understand that part of GOD s commands is for you ,me and others to choose their own god and destiny. GOD has not created robots or is forcing His creations to accept His kingdom.
You are basically saying that there is no sujud to GOD if some creations disobey GOD!!!
You are confusing GOD s will and free will .
You will find hundreds of contradictions unless you study Qoran from beginning to end with a sincere heart and mind . Wash your head from bias and following false understanding of others and false translations.
Or ,stop wasting your time with Qoran .
Or keep selling your wrong assumptions, wrong misconceptions and understanding .It is clear and obvious to those who study Qoran that you do not know what Qoran is really saying.
No doubt you will keep on coming back repeating your false understanding and claiming that it is clear to you.
If it is that clear to you why are you even bothering with Qoran.
To me this is the real contradiction, you wasting your time on something wrong and contradictory.
Nothing more to say to you or to add to this topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
@Noon waalqalami
When i said general statement, i meant it wasn't specific about malaika (like a part of them, most of them..). It just says "The malaika". I am not a native english, i misused "general statement".Since there is no context for malaika except "whatever in the earth and whatever in the heaven of..", Allah surely speaks of all malaika, because allah is not a guy in a bar, and doesn't make "general statements", his words are truth always. So if he says malaika do what they are commanded, then it is so.
1-You didn't debunk my argument in any way
2-You backed it up by admitting it speaks of each species.This is simple logic; each species is not same as each entity.
3-Are you claiming some animals are not signs from allah for the people?
It says each type is a sign e.g. monkeys, etc. ? ?Jus? is not same as Ju5.
454 and in creation yours and what dispersed min/of dbbatin signs for folk assured being
1-groups are always made of individual members, you can still speak about all of them
2-malaika is masculine anyway so why do you even botherbecause of l- before malaika its "the" malaika so we must know who they are. but the verse doesn't tell us who they are, its not" the malaika i saw near the grocery store" neither "the malaika who stole my bike". Its The Malaika, There is no way it doesn't speak of all of them.
Groups have subgroups; read exactly as it is written not make erroneous assumptions.
822 indeed worst l-dawbi/the creatures near/with the god the deaf the dumb the ones not reasoning
2275 the god designated mina/from (subset) the controllers messengers of and from (subset) the humankind indeed the god hearer seer
1649 min/of dbbatin wal-malikatu
min/of shayin/thing ? NOT SAME AS ? kulli/every shayin/thing
2445 and the god creation kulla/every dabbatin from water so among them entities walked/crawled on belly its and among them entities walked on feet two (includes humankind) and among them entities walked on fours created the god what willed indeed the god on kulli/each thing supreme
https//s10.postimg.org/byw7w4kg9/Ahlwardt_305_ch21v18-32.jpg
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Peace Ju5.
Read your posts again. All you are doing is showing your ignorance of Qoran.
You are confusing sujud to GOD and free wiill. You do not understand that part of GOD s commands is for you ,me and others to choose their own god and destiny. GOD has not created robots or is forcing His creations to accept His kingdom.
You are basically saying that there is no sujud to GOD if some creations disobey GOD!!!
You are confusing GOD s will and free will .
You will find hundreds of contradictions unless you study Qoran from beginning to end with a sincere heart and mind . Wash your head from bias and following false understanding of others and false translations.
Or ,stop wasting your time with Qoran .
Or keep selling your wrong assumptions, wrong misconceptions and understanding .It is clear and obvious to those who study Qoran that you do not know what Qoran is really saying.
No doubt you will keep on coming back repeating your false understanding and claiming that it is clear to you.
If it is that clear to you why are you even bothering with Qoran.
To me this is the real contradiction, you wasting your time on something wrong and contradictory.
Nothing more to say to you or to add to this topic.
GOD bless you.
Peace.i am sorry but your hypothesis about sujud to god, they do what they are commanded meaning that gods bends everything to his will because hes all powerfull and that none challenge his great plan is not compatible with the "they fear their lord above him" "they are not arrogant" parts. Please don't be dishonest.
I agree that one can be part of a great divine plan, and that none of his deeds will alter this plan, but you can't, because of god omnipotence, proceed to say that because of this unstoppable might the ones who are subject to it(and even unaware of it!) are fearful of their lord and not arrogant.Ever atheists crimanals may be usbject to gods plan, and not alter it in anyway, and may be manipulated by god in order to do one thing, but to say that they fear their Lord... This is wrong.
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Ever atheists crimanals may be usbject to gods plan, and not alter it in anyway, and may be manipulated by god in order to do one thing, but to say that they fear their Lord... This is wrong.
I don't think criminals are subjects to Allah/God's (SWTAY) plans.
1690
Inna Allaha ya/muru bialAAadliwaal-ihsani wa-eeta-i theealqurba wayanha AAani alfahsha-i waalmunkariwaalbaghyi yaAAithukum laAAallakum tathakkaroona
God orders justice and goodness and that you shall help your relatives, and He prohibits immorality and vice and transgression. He warns you that you may remember. -
Unless of course they redeem of their crimes.
