خمر Khamr is not wine or intoxicant whatever

Obour

Hi all

Khamr (&#1585 is not related to alcohol or intoxicant, because in (3812) we read
translation One of them said I saw myself pressing wine.
no one press wine or intoxicant, to make wine one should press grape. And Arabic word for grape is enab (&#1576 which is used several times in Quran, so Khamr is not grape either.
By pressing Khamr we can make some beverages and this beverages is not something bad because there is a river of this beverages in Heaven (4715) ...
So Khamr itself is impure (&#1587 not the beverages one made from it.
With this new understanding I tried to find which plant or fruit can be Khmar but find nothing till now, any thoughts?

Noon_waalqalami

Peace, it?s a general term ?covering? all inebriants.

1236 see myself presses/squeezes khamran/inebriant of (wine, beer, etc...)

1249 and in it pressing/squeezing (fruits, vegetables, to extract juices or oils)

1667 and of fruits the date palms and the grapevines thou taking from it sakaran/intoxicant of and provision of best of indeed in such surely sign for folk reasoning

https//remedygrove.com/supplements/Health-Benefits-of-Dates-Vinegar

good_logic

Peace Obour.
Like brother Noon said, it is a general term .
Pressing here just means serving Khamr. In this case he became a butler to the king and he did serve the king s khamr for him.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Obour

No it's not a general term like "covering", because we have a river of khamr in heaven. It is a specific fruit or vegetable. Please pay more attention to the verse presses/squeezes Khamr. no one presses/squeezes wine or any inebriant. Maybe by presses/squeezes Khamr (like grape) we get wine maybe not. but Khamr itself is not liquor.
serving and squeezing are completely two different word, we cant say here squeezing means serving. we can't change a clear word like squeeze because it's not fit with our understanding. If he meant serving Khamr then we read in verse Serving not squeezing.

Noon_waalqalami

It?s not only "wine" or whatever meaning ok to get drunk on beer, whiskey, etc., and gamble paycheck.

2219 asked they you about l-khamri/the inebriant wal-maysiri/and the wager

1241 so giveth drink lord his khamran/inebriant of
(e.g. red/white wine, rye/wheat beer, date palm wine, etc.,)

1249 and in it yairna/pressing/squeezing (i.e. processing)

2431 ... and to striketh they bikhumurihinna/with ?cover? theirs

good_logic

Peace Obour.

I am saying Khamr is the outcome of whatever you say you are "Squeezing". The end product is khamr ..There is no fruit/vegetable called khamr. Khamr is what you get after ""Squeezing/making from "fruits.
I am also saying in that verse the context of the dream is making and serving khamr.
My understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

HP_TECH

My thoughts are that you are an idiot

The_Sardar

My thoughts are that you are an idiot

Cmon HP_TECH i know you are better than that. Why are you so hostile?

huruf

So if those rivers in paradise are wine and nothing wrong with them, one must guess that getting drunk in paradise is also ok?

Salaam

HP_TECH

Cmon HP_TECH i know you are better than that. Why are you so hostile?

So you have never felt in your life genuinely that a person you were interacting with was some kind of an idiot?
Because in this forum I literally genuinely feel it ALL the time.

The level of stupidity is insurmountable. It is like some of these folks literally do not have the basic capability of analysis, critical thinking and context reading.

They are rather so driven by the possibility of being the first to discover something different or the possibility of demonstrating something in a new light that "no on else was able to before" that they end up looking like stooges foaming out the mouth. Ridiculous and pathetic sight for me to bear.

There is this culture of complete and utter disregard for common sense, and historical facts when it comes to Quran and Arabian culture that it perplexes me. When it comes to Judaism or "Christianity" or any other period in history they make use of all the historical data and evidences from culture, tradition, etc... but when it comes to Quran they completely ignore those same tools.

I am utterly disgusted and annoyed by the ignorance and stupidity.
Stop acting as if I have said something offensive. Even the prophets grew frustrated with the ignorance of their people. Look how many times the root word jim ha lam is utilized.

http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=ignorant

267
Wa-ith qala moosa liqawmihi inna Allaha ya/murukum an tathbahoo baqaratan qaloo atattakhithuna huzuwan qala aAAoothu biAllahi an akoona mina aljahileena
And when said Musa to his people, "Indeed, Allah commands you that you slaughter a cow." They said, "Do you take us (in) ridicule." He said, "I seek refuge in Allah that I be among the ignorant."

And We led across (the) Children of Israel the sea. Then they came upon a people devoted to idols of theirs. They said, "O Musa! Make for us a god like what they have gods. He said, "Indeed, you (are) a people ignorant.

604
Indeed, (there) is for you an example good in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we (are) disassociated from you and from what you worship besides Allah. We have denied you, and has appeared between us and between you enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah Alone." Except (the) saying (of) Ibrahim to his father, "Surely I ask forgiveness for you, but not I have power for you from Allah of anything. Our Lord, upon You we put our trust, and to You we turn, and to You (is) the final return.

Perhaps my response could have simply been peace and then I should have turned away from ALL of you

However others will continue to feed this topic when it should not even be dignified with a response.

Therefore, I stand firm for those of you who lack sternness against the ignorant ones who are pumped up by their ego to say the most foolish rubbish about Allah while they do not know

The_Sardar

So you have never felt in your life genuinely that a person you were interacting with was some kind of an idiot?
Because in this forum I literally genuinely feel it ALL the time.

Look the way you say "My thoughts are that you are an idiot" is not actually going help you.

HP_TECH

So if someone is acting stupid, you would not correct them and make them aware of their stupidity?
You see me as acting inappropriately and you intervened.
I saw the OP the same way and I intervened.
What is the difference?

The_Sardar

So if someone is acting stupid, you would not correct them and make them aware of their stupidity?
You see me as acting inappropriately and you intervened.
I saw the OP the same way and I intervened.
What is the difference?

If you are going to criticize then simply point out that is incorrect on their argument, not just hurling insults. It would make things go haywire.

HP_TECH

Sometimes stupidity deserves not to be analyzed but simply called out.
If I see my brother grab a turd and lick it while recording himself, should I stand there and analyze his shortcomings and weigh out the pros and cons of eating turds with him?
No, I am gonna tell him off, if not slap him across the face.

The_Sardar

Sometimes stupidity deserves not to be analyzed but simply called out.
If I see my brother grab a turd and lick it while recording himself, should I stand there and analyze his shortcomings and weigh out the pros and cons of eating turds with him?
No, I am gonna tell him off, if not slap him across the face.

Okay that example is a bit extreme but i somewhat understand but brother Obuor's research of Khamr is not like you know, the most stupidest thing?

hawk99

Peace Obour,

Would you kindly give your translation of 2219?

Kha-Miim-Ra = cover/conceal/veil, becoming changed/altered from a
former state/condition, mixed/mingled/incorporated/blended,
intoxication/wine/grapes, make-up, any intoxicating thing that
clouds/obscures the intellect, come upon secretly/unexpectedly,
crowding of people, odor of perfume, women's head cover,
man's turban, a covering, something fermented/matured.

peace

Obour

Peace hawk99
I don't know what is khamr so I can't give you a correct translation of 2219. Thats why I start this topic.
Please consider 3612 and this phrase
In some English translation that I looked we have
pressing wine or squeezing wine. For me it's not make sense. And in Persian translation we have means squeezing grape to make wine, it make sense to me but there is no grape (in arabic &#1576 in this verse.

Now either these translations are incorrect or as HP_TECH says I'm an idiot one and pressing wine is something normal that everyone do.

HP_TECH

You did not begin this thread by claiming you didn't have a strong command of the english language, nor that you were seeking help in understanding something. You jumped straight into saying x isn't y because of z. That is why I took a stern and firm stance to your post.

Pressing wine doesn't mean that one is actually pressing wine! (which is actually oxymoronic and a bit idiomatic)
It is just an expression!

"Pressing" is an establish verb for squeezing any kind of fruit into juice, so pressing wine inherently entails the usage of grapes.
People in this thread have not realized that the issue you are having is a result of you not being a native speaker. Pressing wine is an intuitive expression in the native language.

I am going to repeat myself.
As you yourself have found out by now, the expression pressing wine is a very commonly used expression in English and it does not contain the word grape in it, because it unnecessary. Wine comes from grapes. Finally it is a bit of an idiomatic expression.

The same way that the expression in English is bereft of the word grape, so it is in Arabic. Period.

Refrain from trying to make discoveries and read more English books and familiarize yourself thoroughly with the language you are analyzing before making ridiculous bold claims.

The_Sardar