God's word or human's word ?
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
Very good reasoning , I also hold the same viewpoint as you. We sometimes forget that this reading is a confirmation of what came before it. There is a tendency to idolize this book when it states itself that we are to trust in this and WHAT CAME BEFORE IT. The error comes through the word "quran" which is many times capitalized for no good reason. It is a description, not the title of any book. We recognize the God's Word when it delivers non contradicting TRUTH. Many of us have fallen into a sect, the "Quran sect", and cannot seem to find a way out. It is one of the BEST guides to Truth, but it is a reading amongst others. All readings are from humans, but those that remain true through the process of verification are described as the God's Words.
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Peace,
Anyone who is doubting the reading as being from God should indeed take up the challenge to produce a surah like it. Just try even thinking about it.
I can guarantee you that it is a formidable challenge; no poetry, no prose that I can dream up can compete. I mean the topics chosen and the order of presentation, the disarming of arguments against is just unfathomable. Anyone who reads it and tries to contemplate whether they themselves could have come up with the things in the reading should become convinced it cannot be the work of a human mind.
My advice is to sit down for half an hour to an hour and just try and come up with something, anything that remotely would come close to what the reading does. Maybe then you may start to understand the amazing nature of the perfection of the words used.
Regards.
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Peace be upon you,
Just so the record is clear, I am not doubting THIS reading, I have found no reason to do so, I am just making it clear that THIS reading is only a guide, not THE GUIDE. It is indeed one of the BEST, but not the ONLY. It is teaching wisdom that is VERY OLD. In fact it states in CONFIRMS that which came before it.
Regarding the "sura like it" test. We are not asked to produce chapters, the word "sura" does not mean chapter, but "structure". We cannot produce "structures" like the God has done, we cannot produce worlds, we cannot produce a universe (Al kitaab).
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peace be upon all,
I agree with idolfree's view of sura being structure and in the context a struture of the universe, I think that the context of 223 strongly supports this view
O people, serve your Lord who has created you and those before you that you may be righteous.
The One who made the land a habitat, and the sky a structure, and He sent down from the sky water with which He brought out fruit as a gift to you. So do not make any equals with The God while you now know.
And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a structure (sura) like it, and call upon your witnesses other than The God if you are truthful. (221-23) -
Peace be upon you,
Just so the record is clear, I am not doubting THIS reading, I have found no reason to do so, I am just making it clear that THIS reading is only a guide, not THE GUIDE. It is indeed one of the BEST, but not the ONLY. It is teaching wisdom that is VERY OLD. In fact it states in CONFIRMS that which came before it.
Regarding the "sura like it" test. We are not asked to produce chapters, the word "sura" does not mean chapter, but "structure". We cannot produce "structures" like the God has done, we cannot produce worlds, we cannot produce a universe (Al kitaab).
Peace,
This is the reason why people here fail. It's because you dream up a theory without looking at all the references to the same concept. It clearly indicates in 223 regarding what was sent or revealed not the universe or al-kitab.
In any case we are fortunate to have other references to the same idea and it clearly says quran and authoring as well as the reference to the challenge being against fabrication...
1037 This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.
1038 If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."
As always though, make of it or should I say structure out of it what you will. I bid you peace.
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Peace be upon you,
Just so the record is clear, I am not doubting THIS reading, I have found no reason to do so, I am just making it clear that THIS reading is only a guide, not THE GUIDE. It is indeed one of the BEST, but not the ONLY. It is teaching wisdom that is VERY OLD. In fact it states in CONFIRMS that which came before it.
Regarding the "sura like it" test. We are not asked to produce chapters, the word "sura" does not mean chapter, but "structure". We cannot produce "structures" like the God has done, we cannot produce worlds, we cannot produce a universe (Al kitaab).
Beautifully said, bro.
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Peace,
This is the reason why people here fail. It's because you dream up a theory without looking at all the references to the same concept. It clearly indicates in 223 regarding what was sent or revealed not the universe or al-kitab.
In any case we are fortunate to have other references to the same idea and it clearly says quran and authoring as well as the reference to the challenge being against fabrication...
1037 This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.
1038 If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."
I agree with you Truth. Instead of admitting that they cannot answer this particular challenge as per 1038, we have those who will conjure up the Sura doesn't always mean Chapter, it means structure pitch. I see it as a tactic rather than an attempt to address the topic under discussion.
On a related noted, I think what Wakas has said on this matter is on point. I agree with that answer and the way he presented it.
Salaam,
Damon. -
Peace SalikahDC n all,
I don't regard the Qur'an as relative truth because of human error.It is relative truth because it does not address every single aspect about God, the Universe and Creation. It is a guide for us.
Agreed.It is just enough information for us to succeed in this life,
And the hereafter.....and even that little bit has been proven difficult to understand and comprehend even though it shouldn't be. Why? Because language is based on human concepts
I don't think that's the reason it's difficult to comprehend. We (humans) put the obstacles and barrier to understanding. It's not what's being told, thats simple. It's what we attach to it.Everything that a man with understanding can write, think and interpret could be a truth. Absolute truth, however, is with Ar Rahman and we are a breath away from it.
Question... do you think quran contains the words of God?It is indeed one of the BEST, but not the ONLY.
It is indeed The BEST, IMHO. ) -
Peace be upon you all,
Thanks for your insightful thoughts.
Just a remark, in order to avoid misunderstanding of some statement and drawing hasty conslusions , we shall avoid much speculation and be sure about our understanding of the opinions of the other members .I try to summarize my thought about the purpose of a guide by an example; when one buys a machine such a computer, it is accompanied by a note or a manual which explains how to use it...The manual and the machine are closely linked.
In the same way, we cannot dissociate a spiritual guide and the creation.
Peace
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Peace,
There is no doubt that 'structure' is consistent with what we understand from the word chapter as an organisational unit within the reading.
However as Damon has posted (re; 1037-3 and I have repeated, the reference is to the reading's suras and not structure as in physical universe.
Regards.
