A Post Capitalism World: Demonetization Of Everything
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The freed time of people living in agricultural society has resulted them to be able to invest their time to invest in Writing / Reading, Religion, Philosophy, Sport etc.. Which have no 'value' in the perspective on Hunting and Foraging society.
It did not free time of the majority as most people still had to work from dawn to dusk in the fields, but the caste and feudalism systems were invented in order for one group of priveleged people to be able to invest their time into anything else and the rest/majority still had to work in argiculture.
Back to the current time.
The innovation of technology will free human from 9-5 blue collar, boring and routine works. (Taking out trashes, scanning items on convenient store, switching lines on switchboard, assembling shoes etc..)Will it free human from the government? No, because that's not the case as long as the human time is distributed within the society units and also because government and fascio. are methaphysical concepts, this is a part of the / i.e. the system and the point of government is to make the economy work by making human work and dedicate its time to something. Even if it will free from 9/5 it won't diminish the class/caste system or the currency as the standard for one's indicator of social privelege i.e. economic resouce. People will have to do something else to get their robots due routine work, like mine bitcoins, which will prove to be unproductive given the fact that industrial miners who invested hundreds of thousands into the hardware will be able to mine more than an "ordinary" human being. Therefore there will still be some sort of jobs to perform on daily basis for the rest.
The classical view of differentiating between "goods" and "services" might be irrelevant now.
Given many "goods" will be delivered as "services".
As such the categorization of "industrial" and "post industrial" has also become irrelevant.What do you mean by "goods" delivered as "services"? These are not paradigmatic or philosophical concepts, these are concepts of the matter. There are goods i.e. raw resources or final manufactured products on the market and services i.e. non-materialized investment of one's time to into something demanded on the market. As I said we are already living in the post-industrial i.e. post-production economy where services share the lion's share of the market BECAUSE we allow the third world to starve and people there work 12 hour shifts for a can of rice in order for us to wear t-shirts. That's the prosperity, it's never achieved, it is taken from other societies.
And is it bad for Russia and China?
I don't see how the 'awful conditions for trade with EU and western world" has hurt China or Russia.
It's actually the other way around as the shift of power now shifting to Asia, due to their sheer size of resources and population.I never said it is bad or not, I never gave it a judgement, I said that Russia and China are not a good example of post-industrial countries, because they still rely on production or resource gathering so to speak, that's the lion's share of their economy, which creates relative advantage for them. Limiting free trade prevents a lot of goods and jobs coming from oversees and that influences the diminished level of life in Eastern Russia.
Does 'having a business' will still be necessary? (In post capitalism context)
If by 'having a business' you mean having a legalized infrastructure or intellectual property in order to generate a unit of economic well-being i.e. "one-eye" then even by now that is not "needed", but is mostly chosen by people who want it, if we talk about free-trade nations. But it seems your vision of what 'post-capitalism' differs vastly from mine. Capitalism is not just having to produce or earn money to spend, capitalism was around for thousands of years and it refers to the system of distribution and deligation of wealth/land/resources/women from an authority who claims wealth/land/resources/women on a particular geographic territory towards its controlled population. And this notion i.e. having technological infrastructure developed to the point that people will not have to go 9-5 does not at all even remotely touch the aspect of CAPITAL-ism i.e. worship of the capital-holders. The technocratic corporations as explained in the cyberpunk genre will still control the rest of the masses who already become mindless consumers. Some 50 years ago it was okay to show self-defense and possess arms, today in most countries you will have to get really lucky not to get jailed even if your family is in danger by a thief, in case you kill him in self-defense. A lot of peaceful demonstrations are already oppressed by suing ultra-sound towers which make ordinary people loose hearing. 50 years ago police had trouble shooting someone unless there is an obvious shooting coming from the target. Today they have the right to shoot you down for dancing around them (a real case, which occured in my country a year ago I believe) The more we dwelve into technology the sooner it becomes apparent that your every move is now controlled to the point that you will start losing your identity and that's where post-humanism is headed, to create a new type of biological organism, a cyborg.
The "machine based weapon" will definitely be the primary target.
Taking out human population and/or infrastructure is not beneficial for the 'winner', given those are actually the 'prize / spoil' of the war.
Example
What benefits does it bring to People Republic of China if they conquered devastated, radioactive polluted and human population decimated Taiwan island?Taiwan island is already controlled by China and it serves for them as the Japan-US military base and an anti aircraft defense. It is like Crimea for Russia. But devastating an enemy like India or the US during the all-our-war, and its strategic cities will obviously be a priority. There is no logic in machines fighting machines.
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You have the right of a say;
Definitely, you have the right to use or modify as you see fit. -
You respect yourself and the other as a unified subject;
You respect other by crediting their work / contribution and other will respect you by crediting you and your contribution on the software's source code. -
Decisions are made collectively and not based on the approval of the higher-standing institution.
Not required and even better, You are free to make your own decision of the software's source code that you have obtained. No approval from any other parties is required.
None of these examples require any interaction at all hence it's not horizontal, it's substantive.
Really? Then why not create your own robots to have sex with without those restriction?
Capital and infrastructure for "silicon technology" is preserved in universities only, hence why I said about the case stratification between the scholars/engineers and the rest of the "proles (Orwellian term)".
I'm not getting this, please explain more...
See my explanation on hierarchy and capitalism.
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Exactly and more..
The quality of writings and intellectural work depends on the level of suffering. In fact, the more hedonistic the society is the lesser is the quality of intellectual creations. Compare books in the late 19th century (Sologub, Le Bon, Leo Tolstoy) and what they write now. Not necessarily the books, the quality of everything is bullshit today while the blind consumers cannot even know what they truely need for themselves, just mindlessly consume everything. The famous formula of the Came Saw Won is now Came Saw Consumed.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKGbguoildA
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I think demonetization is happening to a degree but there are certainly things which are not demonetised and will probably always have a high value e.g. a house with water views in a busy city. Even an ordinary house in a city or the outskirts of a city is expensive. Certain things go down in value and seem more affordable whereas other things seem unreachable.
I think there will always be people in privileged positions. Also I don?t see how horizontal cooperation will work because of ego, competitiveness and greed. People can be taught to care for others doesn?t mean they won?t look out for their own interests.
There?s a saying in Arabic that poverty is kufr because a person who is suffering will do anything and care about nothing but their own needs. It may help people with intellectual creations, different needs can help create ingenuity but desperation can make different people do different things. Besides, don?t you think there are alot of people suffering today?
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Also I don?t see how horizontal cooperation will work because of ego, competitiveness and greed.
It won't work, it is against the physics behind the universe and the material illusion of mankind's existence, i.e. experience behind material living, that's what existence is by definition, an EXPERIENCE behind material living or living within the material projection. That is why I strongly emphasize on getting your ego diminished by practicing contemplation and unguided meditations, the latter is not that important actually, this can be achieved without meditation, but concentrating your thoughts may help at some occasions. I also emphasize not to look forward to any -ISM because any social ideology is in essence vicious as it is based on projection of management of material experience. The matter is vicious, that's metaphysics. It is vicious regardless if you believe in it or not. If you fall of the bridge, no matter what you believe in, the law of matter WILL work and you WILL hit the ground/water/whatever is under the bridge. Because that's the law. It will work regardless if a bad or good person will fall off the bridge, that's an unchangeable set of rules, which methaphysically, because any matter is but a projection of the spiritual realm, govern your material existence.
The same goes in regards to social interaction. You can watch the documentaries on Syrian refugees in France and other EU refugee camps. Often there are gangs which form within these communities, which prevent others to leave the borders of the camp without paying them. These gangs in their numbers do not prevail even 5% of the total number of refugees there, yet people cannot do anything about this. Why? Because hierarchal interaction is ALWAYS organized, whereas horizontal is not, this is why a single pastor may lead a flock of sheep with the latter not even questioning the pastor's decisions. That's the law. The only way to evade it partly is to accept the reality and lower your ego, do not join anyone and have no claims on personal ownership, because in essence we own nothing, EXCEPT our personal material experience,but we no nothing of matter. Therefore any claim on the matter regardless of motivation is vicious.
Being close to "thy neighbour" or caring for others does not mean uniting in communities under any -ism. It means to look at the bigger picture, and not to cause harm to anyone, by your thoughts (curses or even small bad wishes may materialize), words or actions. To establish this pattern of life one has to work on his/her own ego, which is who one percieves to be, but in truth is not. There you have your purpose of life. Not to harm and acccept the reality as to what it is, without falling into moral relativism or any other dogma. To do the latter one has to gain knowledge by observation and contemplation, and only then reading. Reading without observation, studying and contemplation is worthless.
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Peace Makaveli.
I agree with your post. All man s systems are imperfect. One needs to "come out of them".However if the knowledge is false and biased, the observation will be false and biased and so will the contemplation.
So how does one insure the right kind of knowledge?For me, the source of all knowledge must be sought to guide to the right knowledge.
One needs to be prepared to undergo a "revolution" to get rid of the doctrines(false knowledge) planted in them by other systems since childhood.
A very tedious and hard task.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
For me, the source of all knowledge must be sought to guide to the right knowledge.
One needs to be prepared to undergo a "revolution" to get rid of the doctrines(false knowledge) planted in them by other systems since childhood.Yes. And which power or force prevents to do so?
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Peace Makaveli.
I believe all the divided systems ,each one is the power that prevents its people from "coming out of it". Or take advantage of their loyalties to fight for its existence.
The true power, the only real power, is the one that should be sought as all other powers are an illusion and a lie.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Makaveli.
Fuel for systems are its members ,I call them customers. No customers means business/system is going down/bankrupt.
Unfortunately many customers do not realise they have the power, they think the leaders are more powerful than them.Why they exist? I gave up finding the reasons. I simply do not know the one real reason. It could be different reasons of belonging, like fear of change, pride, false promises, getting riches/rewards....
Anyway, I am weird /unusual. I have never felt I belong to any organisation or country or race or took to systems like capitalism or any ...ism really.
I have always wanted to know why this or that? Even when I did not have my answers ,my instinct was so strong in telling me to stay away from getting involved. I have taken part without really wanting to , rendered to Cease what is Ceaser s, but always had this inner feeling of "you are not part" of this system( any system of countries I lived in).Now, since retiring, I am lucky to do my own things and concentrate on finding out about GOD s system, I do not criticise or question peoples motives/choices . I concentrate on my own problems/shortcomings and treat all people from all walks of life with total respect ,love and fairness . I stopped judging people and systems they belong to,
I have enough on my plate to "take out the log in my eye" so I can see clearly.
Ongoing brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace..
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I think demonetization is happening to a degree but there are certainly things which are not demonetised
Of course, changes shall happened gradually, that's why it is called an 'evolution'.
Capitalism after full hard on battle with Socialism / Communism has evolved into a hybrid CapiSocialism and still continue to evolves with the phenomenon of gradual demonetization due to abundance.and will probably always have a high value e.g. a house with water views in a busy city.
Easy to fix, with the advent of technology anyone can have any views that they want in their window house. And changed the view anytime they are bored..
Even an ordinary house in a city or the outskirts of a city is expensive.
Location might be a lesser problem when everybody can work on any place that they wanted.
Even now, "Virtual Office / Shared Office" is a trend, I've seen a bunch of startup companies where their employee either work at home or in some cafe near their office. All of the meetings are done through Video conference.
Not enough? holographic conference is coming...
Also I don?t see how horizontal cooperation will work because of ego, competitiveness and greed. People can be taught to care for others doesn?t mean they won?t look out for their own interests.
Football or other team based sport is a good example of how horizontal cooperation actually works among human.
Actually the first activity that human do together is based on horizontal cooperation; hunting and gathering in group. During those era, 'leader' were seen as merely 'coordinator', he / she will receives the exact portion of the meat as any other members.
And some psychopathy 'coordinator' thinks that he has 'divine right' to rule over others and voila.. king and empire was born, hunting group turned into military group.
There?s a saying in Arabic that poverty is kufr because a person who is suffering will do anything and care about nothing but their own needs.
Not 100% correct.
There has been many cases where human actually capable of performing 'self sacrifice' for the sake of the greater good. -
You?re right. The future holds many intriguing possibilities.
People may still want something ?real?. We can get ocean views here right now just on the laptop screensaver or even on the tv, not yet the window but sure it could be done. Desire for things kinda gets in the way. For example this forum is a great indicator of wanting something ?real?. People love they find likeminded/similar people here but many yearn to see them in the flesh, in their communities etc. So some things will always have higher value but yep things will become more widely available but some things will just be different.
People playing soccer or any other sports work as a team but they all have an agreed agenda. That?s why it works plus they have to hold themselves in position to work together otherwise one?s ego can screw up the game. Life's more complicated
In the end I guess it comes down to ego, acceptance and value. We have to control our egos be more grateful and work on/for the future. And yes there are people who sacrifice themselves/lives for greater good regardless of monetary means.
Right now I've basically got my own personal trainer for free via an app. It's a great motivator so I look forward to seeing what the future technology and demonitization brings
Peace
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You?re right. The future holds many intriguing possibilities.
People may still want something ?real?. We can get ocean views here right now just on the laptop screensaver or even on the tv, not yet the window but sure it could be done. Desire for things kinda gets in the way. For example this forum is a great indicator of wanting something ?real?. People love they find likeminded/similar people here but many yearn to see them in the flesh, in their communities etc. So some things will always have higher value but yep things will become more widely available but some things will just be different.
Human perceived reality is nothing but a stream of signals which the brain reconstruct as images, sounds, touch, taste and smell. Research is underway to understand what kind of input signals, where it is being processed within the brain.
The future of man-machine-interface technology will tap straight into either human nerve systems or brain.
By then differentiating between "virtual reality" and "reality" will be difficult.Which opened up another 'philosophical' discussion on what is 'reality' in the first place?
Could what we perceived now as 'reality' is actually already a 'virtually simulated reality'?
The topic was the inspiration for the hit movies "The Matrix".People playing soccer or any other sports work as a team but they all have an agreed agenda. That?s why it works plus they have to hold themselves in position to work together otherwise one?s ego can screw up the game. Life's more complicated
Human cooperation is achievable only through common / agreed agenda.
When the agenda between two human or group of humans conflicting each others then conflict shall occurs.
FEAR THROUGH MANIPULATION is then used by one group to control the behavior of the other group which might not share the common / agreed agenda. Master -> Slave relationship is a good example of that. Clerics / Kings -> Servant / Commoner relationship is another good example of that too.
And the trend of such relationship to work + the success rate of FEAR THROUGH MANIPULATION is already diminishing as we speak, due to wide spread availability of information accessible by anyone, the so-called "Information Age", which already happened as we speak.
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That?s our reality though ? our brain/body evolved or became to be a stream of signals which people relate to because that?s how we?re made up.
I can?t imagine a future like the matrix yet but I can see how the future might tamper with how people perceive reality and virtual reality. it happens now e.g. photoshopping images.
I don?t know anybody without fear even with all the accessible info we have in the world. Not everyone will have knowledge even if we have access to it and even the most rational/knowledgeable may have fears.
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I don?t know anybody without fear even with all the accessible info we have in the world. Not everyone will have knowledge even if we have access to it and even the most rational/knowledgeable may have fears.
Of course, as 'fear' is the result of warning system within the body.
To warn of imminent danger that need to be addressed. -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Zombie thread!
I'd recently come across the idea of a basic universal income. Even if there are few jobs, under this scheme it would be possible to maintain a currency and rewards for extraordinary ability/talent/work. This would diminish the likelihood of technological stagnation, as there would be extra motivation to strive. Imagine having all basic goods provided for...and still having a nominal yearly sum to spend, and the ability to earn more (should one desire).
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bbzwJ0Sx48
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi