can't find right path

tulipred-muslima

Peace! At first sorry for my bad engl)

Brothers and sisters I seek help and true. Many years I've been traditional Sunni Muslim but my soul has cried. I had and still have so many doubts about hadiths and mazhabs, I feel by my heart that something wrong with all this traditional system. I find more peace for my soul in Sufi path like ibn Arabi, Rumi but they were also Sunni.

YOUR SPIRITUAL PATH BELONGS TO YOU, OPEN UP YOUR HEART TO ALLAH ALONE HE HAS SIMPLIFIED LIFE FOR THE BELIEVERS HIS PATH IS TO NOT CROSS THE (PROHIBITIONS) HE HAS STATED THAT ITS HIS STRAIGHT PATH AND ITS ALL ETHICAL A GOOD MUSLIM IS AN ETHICAL PERSON WHO DOES NOT HURT PEOPLE

Allahs prohibitions (HARAM)

Say, "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited to you. that you not

Associate anything with Him.
And to parents, good treatment Not ill treatment.
Not kill your children out of poverty; We will provide for you and them.
Do not approach immoralities - what is apparent of them and what is concealed (in the quran).
Do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden except by right.
Do not approach the orphan's property except in a way that is best until he reaches maturity.
Do Give full measure and weight in justice. We DO NOT charge any soul except its capacity.
And when you testify, be just, even if a near relative.
the covenant of Allah fulfill. This has He instructed you that you may remember. (All from surah Al-An'am ayah 151-53).

Prohibited to you are your

mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father's sisters, your mother's sisters, your brother's daughters, your sister's daughters, your mothers who nursed you, your sisters through nursing, your wives' mothers, and your step-daughters under your guardianship of your wives unto whom you have gone in. But if you have not gone in unto them, there is no sin upon you. And the wives of your sons who are from your loins, and that you take two sisters simultaneously, except for what has already occurred. Indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful. And married women. (Surah al-Nisa ayah 23-24
Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you slaughter , and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (surah Al-Maidah ayah 3)
Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest. (Surah Al-baqarah)
sin, and oppression without right.
That you say about Allah that which you do not know. (Surah al-araaf ayah 33).

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NOT ALL PEOPLE CAN COME TO UNDERSTAND SO FORGET ABOUT THEM AND FOCUS ON BETTERING YOURSELF DEAR, ENJOY LIFE AND STAY AWAY FROM THE PROHIBITIONS THE HARAMS STATED AS THEY ARE ONLY 14.

My biggest question. Why God needs a faith? He is the greatest He had no needs so why the first and fundamental demand is believe in God? Not being good person? Without our faith God doesn't lose anything, but without being good person we can harm another person. We can't harm God but can harm human so why the first thing in God's law isn't being nice person?

GOD WANTS PEOPLE TO RECOGNISE HIM AND THE WAY TO DO THAT IS BY QUESTIONING AND CONTEMPLATING ON HIS CREATION, THIS WORLD IS NOT AN ACCIDENT THERE IS A PURPOSE TO EVERYTHING AND HE EXPLAINED IT IN THE QURAN FROM THE TIME OF EARLY MANKIND TILL MUHAMMED. PUT ALL THE STORIES IN ORDER AND THE TIMELINE OF THOUGHT, VALUE AND HUMAN PROGRESS WILL BE A CLEAR INDICATION OF GOD.

Two man with absolute same life's path, same good and bad deeds. But one is Muslim and another atheist for example. Why the second one will be punished forever and the first one will be in paradise? Just because different thinks in their heads?

THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPE OF ATHEISTS SOME COMPLETELY SHUT OFF GOD AND SOME HAVE A FORM OF BELIEF EVEN IF THEY ARROGANTLY DO NOT TO ADMIT AND MOST DO AND THEY ARE ON A JOURNEY ASWELL BUT DO NOT HAVE A CLEAR PATH. GOD KNOWS WHATS IN THE HEARTS & MIND OF EVERY NAFS, WE SHOULD'NT PLAY GOD ITS NOT OUR JOB, FOCUS ON YOURSELF.

Why monotheism is so important? Why the biggest sin is shirk? God says that He judge people by their intentions so Hindu for example was so sincerely to trying serve to Creator, his intentions was clear but he was wrong with theology. So he'll be punished forever. Why?

THE ESSENCE OF EVERY FAITH IS MONOTHEISM, SOME CONCEALED AND SOME CLEAR, HINDUS WHO SINCERELY BELIEVE IN GOD AND DO GOOD HAVE A PLACE IN HEAVEN WITH US AND MOST PEOPLE WILL GO TO HEAVEN NOT ONLY THE FOLLOWERS OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMED. ISLAM IS FITRA THERE ARE MANY MUSLIMS OF DIFFERENT KINDS, MUSLIM HINDUS, MUSLIM JEWS, MUSLIM CHRISTIAN, MUSLIM MU'MIN, MUSLIM BUDDHIST. EVERYONE HAS THEY'RE FAIR SHARE OF ISLAM NOT JUST US.

It is very hard for me to believe that there is a sin God never never never forgive.

ALLAH FORGIVES MOST SINS IF THE PERSON SINCERELY UNDERSTANDS THEYRE WRONG DOINGS AND TRIES TO RECTIFY IT AND CHANGES FOR THE BETTER, ALSO MANY COMMIT SINS OUT OF IGNORANCE.

Eternal hell. Problem in every Abrahamic religion. What's the purpose to burn, cut body, pierce eyes etc etc forever? And why punishment is so cruel? I remember when Isis burned people many Muslims said it was sadistic and crazy act... coz only Merciful God can do it in hell.. Whaaat?

THE SUBJECT OF HELL&HEAVEN IS BASED ON WHAT PEOPLE CHOOSE TO DO WITH THEYRE BELIEF AND THEMSELVES ON EARTH, THE SCHOLARS STIR IT UP TO INSTALL FEAR IN THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE TO GET THEM TO NOT SIN AND FORM DIsCIPLINE. ITS A WELL KNOWN TACTIC AND SOME NEED ABIT OF FEAR TO GET THEM TO BE GOOD BELIEVERS AND SOME DONT NEED THIS TACTIC. MOST PEOPLE ON EARTH ARE GOOD BELIEVING PEOPLE AND THEY HAVE A PLACE IN HEAVEN TRUST GOD HE IS MERCIFUL, COMPASSIONATE AND ALL KNOWING.

I found one quranist and his positions was so close to me. He say the main purpose of faith is to be good person and if someone was good during his life he'll be saved in judgment day even without faith. But! With faith and good deeds together person will be absolutely perfect. He say that God is Almighty and can forgive every sin if He wants and unforgivable sins in Quran is like examples. And he say that cruel tortures in hell is just allegory for help people stop doing bad. I have similar views but there's one problem, I don't find his proofs sound. I don't want to delude myself I want clear true with sound proofs.

READ THE QURAN YOURSELF WITH YOUR MIND AND THINK ABOUT IT SENTENCE FOR SENTENCE BECAUSE IT GIVES YOU CLEAR DIRECTION. YES THE ESSENCE OF FAITH IS TO BE A GOOD PERSON AND HAVE GOD BY YOUR SIDE FOR GUIDANCE, FAITH IS A VERY LONG JOURNEY AND ITS ALOT SIMPLER THAN HOW PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE, THE QURAN IS A CLEAR SOUND PROOF ITS UP TO YOU TO PUT EFFORT IN UNDERSTANDING THE QURAN, FOCUS ON THE WORD OF GOD ONLY AND SEEK HIS HELP SINCERELY. HE WANTS YOU CLOSER TO HIM " - 2186 "If My worshipers ask you about Me, I am near, answering the prayer of the one who prays to Me. They should respond to Me and believe in Me in order to be guided".

I personally brother went through so much and I'm at full peace with myself Alhamdulillah i focused on the quran and i opened my heart and mind to allah. i'm grateful for the journey i went through because it has freed me from worshiping allah with fear, Im closer to allah in peace and true devotion with love and rationality. Do not follow tradition unless its useful, Its through struggle and questioning we find peace thats how we all grow, for many they are content with what they know and some are seekers of detail. allah guides in variety of different ways through the NAFS or MENTAL STIMULATION. i no longer question the existence of god because i know he does exists i've been lucky to get my questions answered because i've been seeking truth from the age of 7 and i'm 25 now and fully content alhamdulillah. if you want to talk i'm more than happy to help and share with you my favourite contemporary scholars, researchers, thinkers and books that will help give you answers.

Novice

Salaam Aliart

Like some members suggested keep on studing Quran and you will start getting answers. I will try to give you my current understanding which keep on refining with continuous study of Quran.

My biggest question. Why God needs a faith? He is the greatest He had no needs so why the first and fundamental demand is believe in God? Not being good person? Without our faith God doesn't lose anything, but without being good person we can harm another person. We can't harm God but can harm human so why the first thing in God's law isn't being nice person?

God does not need anything from us. Belief in one God means nothing. But finding trust, peace etc by following commands of one God is what matters. Word "imaan" comes from root which has meanings of peace, trust etc. The commands given to us are meant for our benefit. If we don't follow them we make our life a hell and our progress is stopped in the next life.

Two man with absolute same life's path, same good and bad deeds. But one is Muslim and another atheist for example. Why the second one will be punished forever and the first one will be in paradise? Just because different thinks in their heads?

There is no punishment from God rather everyone carries its fuel for hell from this life. The hell or heaven will exist till what God wished as per following verses

11108

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And as for those who were prosperous, they will be in Paradise, abiding therein as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except what your Lord should will - a bestowal uninterrupted.

11106
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
As for those who were wretched, they will be in the Fire. For them therein is exhaling and inhaling.

11107
abiding therein as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except what your Lord should will. Indeed, your Lord is an effecter of what He intends.

Why monotheism is so important? Why the biggest sin is shirk? God says that He judge people by their intentions so Hindu for example was so sincerely to trying serve to Creator, his intentions was clear but he was wrong with theology. So he'll be punished forever. Why?

In my current understanding "shirk" means to follow the commands of someone other than God and "Ghafara" means protection.

448

Indeed Allah does not give protection if you take partner with Him (getting commands from other than Allah which might turn out to be harmful for you) and give protection other than this to whom who wishes and who associate with Allah surely has fabricated great ithm.

We get protection when we follow God's commands.

Eternal hell. Problem in every Abrahamic religion. What's the purpose to burn, cut body, pierce eyes etc etc forever? And why punishment is so cruel? I remember when Isis burned people many Muslims said it was sadistic and crazy act... coz only Merciful God can do it in hell.. Whaaat?

See answer to 2nd question above. There is no eternal hell. Concept of hell and heaven is not what traditionalist describe.

I found one quranist and his positions was so close to me. He say the main purpose of faith is to be good person and if someone was good during his life he'll be saved in judgment day even without faith. But! With faith and good deeds together person will be absolutely perfect. He say that God is Almighty and can forgive every sin if He wants and unforgivable sins in Quran is like examples. And he say that cruel tortures in hell is just allegory for help people stop doing bad. I have similar views but there's one problem, I don't find his proofs sound. I don't want to delude myself I want clear true with sound proofs.

My current understanding is that hell and heaven are the states. We are in hell if we regret our actions in this life and in heaven when we give zaka (growth) to ourselves and our surroundings.

917
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And the soul and He who proportioned it

918
And inspired it its wickedness and its righteousness,

919
He has succeeded who purifies (give growth) it,

9110
And he has failed who instills it .

Hell and heaven are allegories. They are called "mithal" in Quran.

Salaam

amin

Welcome Aliart,

Whatever goodness comes from is from god, whatever bad its from ourselves.
So He is the Goodness provider, and we shed our ego completely saying this. So many things we invent, so many so called good schemes we make, in the end we had come to the stage where we say we caused irreparable damage to the earth.
So we have both good and bad interwined within everything. Sometimes what we think as good may not be actually good and viceversa. So better leave it to Him and be positive that His reliance will bring goodness.
The BhagavatGita says, do you duty and not expect the results, as the results are from God.

And Montheism I think is in a way not fighting about God. Shirk is when one says my god or religion is only the true god or religion, instead we say, my God is so sacred to be assigned only with some specific symbols and as everything comes from Him. Everything is the sign of God, which is monotheism. The Abrahams path is that as per Quran.

Aliart

I personally brother went through so much and I'm at full peace with myself Alhamdulillah i focused on the quran and i opened my heart and mind to allah. i'm grateful for the journey i went through because it has freed me from worshiping allah with fear, Im closer to allah in peace and true devotion with love and rationality. Do not follow tradition unless its useful, Its through struggle and questioning we find peace thats how we all grow, for many they are content with what they know and some are seekers of detail. allah guides in variety of different ways through the NAFS or MENTAL STIMULATION. i no longer question the existence of god because i know he does exists i've been lucky to get my questions answered because i've been seeking truth from the age of 7 and i'm 25 now and fully content alhamdulillah. if you want to talk i'm more than happy to help and share with you my favourite contemporary scholars, researchers, thinkers and books that will help give you answers.

It's my dream to feel a peace in my heart. Happy for you. Yes I'd like to read what you recommend.

Hell and heaven are allegories. They are called "mithal" in Quran.

I find mithal when Quran says about heaven, but where's mithal about hell?

As for people being scared of hell, this has nothing to do with Qoran. On the contrary, I found nothing to be scared of so far in it.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Brothers, honesty I feel big fear because of faith, hell etc. I'm afraid of self-delusion. How I can recognize when I accept true because it's really true and when I accept true and it's just desires of my heart and actually not true? And I'm scared to be punished for it.

If good deeds really play main role in this world why Quran curse Christians or pegans just for their beliefs and guarantee them hell?

And why Quran is so difficult to understand? Why it's so easy to make Quran a book of hatred and scare?
I read one article of ex muslim and he said that one of the reasons why he rejected the faith is difficult with Quran, that Quran is the one of the most incomprehensible books of all time.
And this book didn't bring happiness to the world but wars, hatred etc. Even among the qurani movement it's so many paths and different meanings! Pray 3 times, 5 times, don't pray at all and just keep thoughts about God; do Hajj, don't do Hajj; Prophet was in Mecca, Prophet never been in Mecca; Prophet was a real person, Prophet is just allegory etc etc. One user gave me this link
https//nawaat.org/portail/author/dukhani/

and what I've read there was really nonsense. You might think that they using cannabis and their desk book is teachings of Don Huan. And they strongly believe that their opinion is right cause they ask God for true path.
What i want to say, even qurani method don't give as a true path and solidarity. Why, why it's soooo complicated (((

NewFrenzy

And why Quran is so difficult to understand? Why it's so easy to make Quran a book of hatred and scare?
I read one article of ex muslim and he said that one of the reasons why he rejected the faith is difficult with Quran, that Quran is the one of the most incomprehensible books of all time.
And this book didn't bring happiness to the world but wars, hatred etc. Even among the qurani movement it's so many paths and different meanings! Pray 3 times, 5 times, don't pray at all and just keep thoughts about God; do Hajj, don't do Hajj; Prophet was in Mecca, Prophet never been in Mecca; Prophet was a real person, Prophet is just allegory etc etc. One user gave me this link
https//nawaat.org/portail/author/dukhani/

and what I've read there was really nonsense. You might think that they using cannabis and their desk book is teachings of Don Huan. And they strongly believe that their opinion is right cause they ask God for true path.
What i want to say, even qurani method don't give as a true path and solidarity. Why, why it's soooo complicated ((

There is not doubt about that. Quran it's so complicated. It's not from God I get angry when I read verses claiming it's clear explained in detail .

Brothers, honesty I feel big fear because of faith, hell etc. I

Your In hell because you believe in hell. You need to stop believing. there is no evidence for hell etc . handshake

"They are not but human beings like us, and the Most Merciful has not revealed a thing. They are only telling lies."

tulipred-muslima

It's my dream to feel a peace in my heart. Happy for you. Yes I'd like to read what you recommend.
I find mithal when Quran says about heaven, but where's mithal about hell?
Brothers, honesty I feel big fear because of faith, hell etc. I'm afraid of self-delusion. How I can recognize when I accept true because it's really true and when I accept true and it's just desires of my heart and actually not true? And I'm scared to be punished for it.

IF YOUR BELIEF IN GOD IS BASED ON FEAR THEN YOU WILL NEVER FIND INNER PEACE AND IT SUGGESTS THAT YOUR BELIEF IS WEAK AND EASILY SHATTERED, STOP THINKING ABOUT HELL LOL, I PERSONALLY NEVER DO BECAUSE I'VE OVERCOME THE TACTIC OF INSTALLED FAKE FEAR. EVIL PEOPLE SHOULD FEAR NOT DECENT BEINGS. THE CONCEPT OF HELL AND HEAVEN IN THE QURAN I THINK IS VERY FAIR, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT COMES OUT OF BELIEF ABOUT GOD THAT IS NOT RATIONAL. READ THE QURAN YOURSELF AND THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT WHATS BEING SAID YOU SEEM VERY DISTANT FROM THE SCRIPTURE AND GOD. ALLAH DOES NOT LIKE THE IDEA THAT HIS CREATION IS WORSHIPPED HE WANTS TO FREE PEOPLE MENTALLY FROM WORSHIPPING MAN MADE DEITIES. PEOPLE HAVE DONE THIS THROUGHOUT HISTORY TO THEMSELVES THEY CREATE FAKE IDOLS FOR WORSHIP WHILE GOD WANTS YOU FREE FROM SUCH IDEAS.

If good deeds really play main role in this world why Quran curse Christians or pegans just for their beliefs and guarantee them hell?

GOD DOESNT LIKE WHEN PEOPLE MAKE UP FAKE BELIEFS AND PROMOTE IT TO PEOPLE AS TRUTH, GOD DOES NOT HAVE SONS OR DAUGHTERS OR THAT HE CAN BE MOLDED INTO AN IMAGE WHEN HE HASN'T ASKED YOU TO DO IT. CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE IN GOD AND THE LAST DAY AND JESUS AND THE COMMANDMENTS AND DO GOOD ARE MUSLIMS FOLLOWERS OF JESUS AS STATED IN THE QURAN.

people who believe and do good deeds have a place in heavean as stated here 'Those who believe (in the Qur'an) those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures) and the Sabians and the Christians any who believe in Allah and the Last Day and work righteousness on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve'. ALLAH IS FAIR!. ITS GREAT THAT YOU CARE FOR OTHER BELIEVERS WHILE THE CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT ANYBODY WHO DOES NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS GOD IS GOIING TO STRAIGHT HELL.

THE CRITICISM THAT OF ALLAH TOWARDS CHRISTIANS IS THAT THEY'VE TAKEN GODS MESSENGER AS GOD HIMSELF AND OTHER GROUP SAY THAT HE IS GODS SONS AND OTHER GROUPS SAY THAT HE IS THE ONLY GOD. SO YOU MAVE MANY GROUPS THAT HAVE BASICALLY PLAYED WITH GODS SCRIPTURE AND DISTORTED THE SIMPLICITY OF THE REAL MESSAGE. IN REGARDS TO THE PAGANS THE ONES THAT HAVE PURPOSELY CONCEALED THE TRUTH AND FOUGHT PROGRESS THEY ARE CURSED BECAUSE THEY WERE STUBBORN AND DID NOT WANT TO LEARN AND UNDERSTAND THAT GOD WANTS THEM TO FREE THEMSELVES OF DEITIES THAT DO NOT LISTEN NOR HELP THEM IN RETURN, THEY WERE ENSLAVING, UNINTELLIGENT AND MOST IMPORTANTLY NOT PROGRESSING AT LEAST HISTORICALLY THESE PEOPLE WERE OF NO CIVILISATION OR OF USE DUE TO THEY'RE MENTALITY.

And why Quran is so difficult to understand? Why it's so easy to make Quran a book of hatred and scare?
I read one article of ex muslim and he said that one of the reasons why he rejected the faith is difficult with Quran, that Quran is the one of the most incomprehensible books of all time.
And this book didn't bring happiness to the world but wars, hatred etc. Even among the qurani movement it's so many paths and different meanings! Pray 3 times, 5 times, don't pray at all and just keep thoughts about God; do Hajj, don't do Hajj; Prophet was in Mecca, Prophet never been in Mecca; Prophet was a real person, Prophet is just allegory etc etc. One user gave me this link
https//nawaat.org/portail/author/dukhani/

YOU SEEM VERY YOUNG AND EASILY AFFECTED BY PEOPLES EXPERIENCES AND OPINIONS. THE IDEA THAT THE QURAN IS HARD IS AN OLD TACTIC TO GET PEOPLE TO FOLLOW TRADITIONS AND NOT THE SCRIPTURE WHICH FREES YOU AND GIVES CLEAR DIRECTION. THE QURAN IS NOT HARD AT ALL IT GIVES YOU COMMANDMENTS, THINGS TO STAY AWAY FROM, STORIES OF MANKIND AND THE EVENTS THAT HAD TAKEN PLACE AND THE END OF THE UNIVERSE. READ THE SCRIPTURE IN AN ORGANISED MANNER IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND IT. ITS BASED ON SUBJECTS EACH DISCUSSING A PARTICULAR MATTER. ITS FUN AND CONSTANTLY GETS YOU THINKING AND QUESTIONING LIFE I THINK THATS A GREAT FEATURE OF THE QURAN AS GOD WANTS YOU TO DEEPLY THINK AND STUDY HIS WORDS. PEOPLE GIVE UP EASILY AND NOT TAUGHT TO STUDY IT AS THEY STUDY SHAKESPEARE IN DETAIL. DO THE SAE FOR THE QURAN PUT EFFORT IN AND MAKE IT YOUR MISSION TO KNOW GOD.

nd what I've read there was really nonsense. You might think that they using cannabis and their desk book is teachings of Don Huan. And they strongly believe that their opinion is right cause they ask God for true path.
What i want to say, even qurani method don't give as a true path and solidarity. Why, why it's soooo complicated ((

YOU CHOOSE TO COMPLICATE THINGS WHEN ITS NOT AND DIFFERENCE IS GOOD, IN REGARDS TO SOLIDARITY ITS A CONSTANT STRUGGLE THINGS ARE CHANGING AND PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MORE INDIVIDUALISTIC ITS NOT LIKE HOW IT USED TO BE, LIFE AND VALUES ARE NOT FIXED UNFORTUNATELY AND PEOPLE CHANGE. YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH ALLAH IS PERSONAL DONT LET PEOPLE CONTROL YOUR IMAAN. LEARN TO FREE YOURSELF FROM PEOPLES OPINIONS AND ASSUMPTION.

this is my email just incase you want to talk and i can also share works with you ). [email protected]

good_logic

Peace NewFrenzy.
When you say quote
"They are not but human beings like us, and the Most Merciful has not revealed a thing. They are only telling lies."

Where do you come up with a "Most Merciful" if GOD has not revealed a thing?

Also, Qoran says believe in it or do not believe in it. You have the choice don t you?

If it is difficult for you leave well alone. Like you said you do not have to believe in anything it says.
Cut your losses, do not work yourself up in a frenzy. Do not waste your time with what annoys you!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

NewFrenzy

whatever

Jafar

It's my dream to feel a peace in my heart. Happy for you.

Acceptance that's the key.
You have your own role to play in this lifetime, and so does me, everybody and everything else. Things might not happened in accordance to your wishes, you might not be able to correct the wrong, you might did wrong yourselves. But accept it as it is, because it is after all in accordance to God's plan.

Abraham exposed a scam performed by his own family, he wanted his society to snap out of it, realize the foolishness, realize that they're being scammed all along. But it wasn't the time (yet) what he did might be considered as a 'failure' for the short sighted but if you zoomed out to see the bigger picture, Abraham has his own role to play. A role to start a snowball which shall become bigger and bigger through passing generations.

And those who persecute him, convicted him with death by burning has their own role to play too.

The above is just an example among millions if not billions of other examples. Many of them went off untold and unnoticed.

Aliart

Wanna thank you all brothers and sisters. Some questions became more clear for me

good_logic

Peace Aliart.

GOD is not forcing anyone to do or fear anything. believe anything ... GOD is giving you a message. GOD wants you to find out who you are and why you exist as a human and prepare to meet with Him(No gender) after this life.
You have this lifetime, your predetermined time here, to do your quest.
If you believe Qoran is that message to you, then ponder/study it and find out for yourself what it is saying/advising/teaching/asking... It is between you and GOD, Every human only needs to worry about his/her own neck.
Of course some are going to look for excuses

http//www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/excuses/

Best of luck with your search/ study.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

makeaway8

My biggest question. Why God needs a faith? He is the greatest He had no needs so why the first and fundamental demand is believe in God? Not being good person? Without our faith God doesn't lose anything, but without being good person we can harm another person. We can't harm God but can harm human so why the first thing in God's law isn't being nice person?

Peace,

Atheism is either the result of satanism or lack of knowledge/ignorance so if ignorance is the case then God will give knowledge/guidance usually at the most difficult times of your life. God will give at least the knowledge/guidance needed for salvation which is the belief in the day of judgement/meeting with God and doing of good deeds. Not everyone is given same knowledge and there are always people more knowledgeable than others. Now it's all about one's choice, if the person is good, then he will choose the way of goodness.
All the statements that i made are from the Quran.

I hope the questions that you asked are the result of pure curiosity but the problem is that we are so many to talk about God, the Quran without any knowledge or a book of light throwing ourselves directly into the hole of assumptions and wishful thinking. Assumptions and assumptions and that's it, if you ask them questions about God, life and death they will say we are not afraid to say we dont know.

We were only given a limited amount of knowledge.
Knowledge/Guidance will come to everyone the most important is that the heart is opened, the more the heart is open the more knowledge it will receive.

makeaway8

If good deeds really play main role in this world why Quran curse Christians or pegans just for their beliefs and guarantee them hell?

And why Quran is so difficult to understand? Why it's so easy to make Quran a book of hatred and scare?

Wrong. Give the evidence that Quran curses Christians or guarantee them Hell, God cursed those who made the lie of God having a son and advises Christrians that it will be better for them that they stop following this stupidity.

Nope, Quran is not difficult it's just you being impatient and not making enough effort to understand it took me a year to finally understand al salet and knowledge comes only by the will of God so i advice you to stay patient and to have the will and the love to look for the truth. Quran is a heart exercise book, those who want to believe they will find enough evidence and those who want to disbelieve it will only add them in misguidance.

huruf

Salaam, Aliart,

You are nto reading the Qur'an. I suppose you read translations and worse than that you indeed do not even read the translations but like many who read the Qur'an you do not read what is there but what you expect to be there, and what we expect to be there has been fed to us so much and so thoroughly that we just are unable to read the Qur'an as we would read it if we had no ever heard anything about it, without any foreknowledge. We have been poisoned at the source.

All those thing syou say the Qur'an says or does not say are your figurations.

In fact, if you take care to read throughly, the Qur'an does not group people in christians or jews or "muslims", but rather in those who show a certain behaviour, DHalimin (those who do wrong and unjustice", hypocrites, liers, defamers, those who act virtuously, those who act for the wellfare of others,

Qur'an characterises people by deeds, not be, bunches based on history or linneage. If you do not see that in the Qur'an then the Qur'an is a throughly stranger to you.

Salaam

OP27

I am the final rasul. The fact of the matter is that Allah knew us fully prior to creating us. We knew Allah fully prior to creation. In this realm where truth and falsehood exist side by side where truth exist and falsehoods exists it is fact of the materium that truth is all that faith shall lead to. If not truth then what else? Therefore the requital for those is justly Jahannam. And the reward is justly Jannah. This thus is The Truth.

Peace! At first sorry for my bad engl)

Brothers and sisters I seek help and true. Many years I've been traditional Sunni Muslim but my soul has cried. I had and still have so many doubts about hadiths and mazhabs, I feel by my heart that something wrong with all this traditional system. I find more peace for my soul in Sufi path like ibn Arabi, Rumi but they were also Sunni.

My biggest problem is that I don't know what to do with my spiritual path. I can't find the truth for my heart. Now I read about qurani path and find it much better and more logical then traditional way. But I have some questions without answers. I'll be so happy if someone can answer

My biggest question. Why God needs a faith? He is the greatest He had no needs so why the first and fundamental demand is believe in God? Not being good person? Without our faith God doesn't lose anything, but without being good person we can harm another person. We can't harm God but can harm human so why the first thing in God's law isn't being nice person?
Two man with absolute same life's path, same good and bad deeds. But one is Muslim and another atheist for example. Why the second one will be punished forever and the first one will be in paradise? Just because different thinks in their heads?
Why monotheism is so important? Why the biggest sin is shirk? God says that He judge people by their intentions so Hindu for example was so sincerely to trying serve to Creator, his intentions was clear but he was wrong with theology. So he'll be punished forever. Why?
It is very hard for me to believe that there is a sin God never never never forgive.
Eternal hell. Problem in every Abrahamic religion. What's the purpose to burn, cut body, pierce eyes etc etc forever? And why punishment is so cruel? I remember when Isis burned people many Muslims said it was sadistic and crazy act... coz only Merciful God can do it in hell.. Whaaat?

I found one quranist and his positions was so close to me. He say the main purpose of faith is to be good person and if someone was good during his life he'll be saved in judgment day even without faith. But! With faith and good deeds together person will be absolutely perfect. He say that God is Almighty and can forgive every sin if He wants and unforgivable sins in Quran is like examples. And he say that cruel tortures in hell is just allegory for help people stop doing bad. I have similar views but there's one problem, I don't find his proofs sound. I don't want to delude myself I want clear true with sound proofs.

Well, sorry again for too long post.
I will be grateful if someone will help me.

Aliart

Mathal

Brother, like I asked before can you show me where's word mathal about hell?

Wrong. Give the evidence that Quran curses Christians or guarantee them Hell, God cursed those who made the lie of God having a son and advises Christrians that it will be better for them that they stop following this stupidity.

Well, I'll give the most unclear ayas for me then. Sorry for big post

986 Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.

572 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

573 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

447 O you who were given the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down , confirming that which is with you, before We obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs or curse them as We cursed the sabbath-breakers. And ever is the decree of Allah accomplished.

Here we see that good deeds absolutely don't matter. It's clear that their beliefs are wrong but I don't understand why so strong punish, with beliefs they're can't do any good or bad to God and they get so strong punishment. But with deeds they can do bad to people and it's not a big deal compared to beliefs. One place Quran say about people of the book good words on another place conversely.
And there's no compulsion in religion but isn't a threat with fire for disbelief a compulsion?

929 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled

Here we clearly see fight for beliefs and not for justice or something like that. I know history about this event but also know that it called aya of sword. Clearly said about disbelief in Prophet law and call to battle for that reason.

850 And if you could but see when the angels take the souls of those who disbelieved... They are striking their faces and their backs and , "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire.

When quranists don't agree with punishment in grave one of the argument is how punishment can be before the Day of Judgment. But here you see punishment before judgment.

388 Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.

God is more merciful than mother to her child. And what about this aya? What a purpose of eternal torture?

955 So let not their wealth or their children impress you. Allah only intends to punish them through them in worldly life and that their souls should depart while they are disbelievers.

God deprives them of the opportunity to repent and salvation ...why? Salvation is possible until the last breath...or not?

823 Had Allah known any good in them, He would have made them hear. And if He had made them hear, they would have turned away, while they were refusing.

Why God created them in that condition if they can't be believers by their nature? Before God created them He knew about them everything so why create them just for eternal fire? As you know from the history Abu Bakr accept Islam in one second cause he had brilliant mind and heart, Umar at first fought against Prophet and accept earlier according to his mind. Another man need some miracle to accept Islam, so you can see the difference between man's mind and nobody chose mind, so what is the fault of people from this aya if they don't received the mind and heart like Ali, Abu Bakr, Hadidja etc? Clear predestination without any chance to salvation?

4230 And whatever strikes you of disaster - it is for what your hands have earned; but He pardons much.

In one place it's said that all good and bad from God and here is said that bad is cause of hands deeds. And when child suffer from disease what the bad deeds he did?

2178 O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that will have a painful punishment.

Many great scholars (except Abu Hanifa) said after this aya that muslim don't punished for killing non muslin and free man for killing slave. This aya and another like beating women and cut hand, why is it so incomprehensible and confusing? Quran could just say don't beat woman, cut resources from thief etc.

Brothers and sisters you advice me to think by myself and hear and see God's signs. But when I read some articles from people who said like that I get shocked. Some of them seems like one who suffer from mental illness. But that really think they are on a right path cause they truly think about Quran and try to see God's signs. After that I realize that this advice is not a solution of problems.

NewFrenzy

@Aliart
Great questions!! From your post I can tell that your are a smart , intelligent , mentally healthy and strong human being.

makeaway8

986 Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures.

READ the previous verses, it talks about those who disbelieved/were ungrateful /rejected the way of faith and good deeds FROM THE TIME OF JESUS, not just Muhammad. Those are not "Christians" they are Satanists they are not punished "just for beliefs" they are punished for following Satan and i will prove it later. The true Christians according to the Quran when they hear the truth they directly follow it.

Nor did those who were given the Scripture become divided until after there had come to them clear evidence.
And they were not commanded except to worship Allah, sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to GIVE CHARITY. And that is the correct religion.(984,5).

572 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

573 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

We had already taken the covenant of the Children of Israel and had sent to them messengers. Whenever there came to them a messenger with what their souls did not desire, a party they denied, and another party they killed.
And they thought there would be no punishment, so they became blind and deaf. Then Allah turned to them in forgiveness; then many of them became blind and deaf. And Allah is Seeing of what they do(571,72).

Same thing read the previous verses, these people used to kill the prophets what good people are you talking about.

447 O you who were given the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down , confirming that which is with you, before We obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs or curse them as We cursed the sabbath-breakers. And ever is the decree of Allah accomplished.

Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture, purchasing error and wishing you would lose the way?
Among the Jews are those who distort words from their usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said , "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us ," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few. (444,46)

God commands righteousness and good deeds, whoever distorts the words commanding good deeds is not "a good person".

Now i will prove that it's not just about "disbelief" it's not about Christianity, it's about following Satan and doing bad deeds

And when a messenger from Allah came to them confirming that which was with them, a party of those who had been given the Scripture threw the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know .
And they followed what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve ." And they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves if they only knew. (2101,102).

929 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled

Here we clearly see fight for beliefs and not for justice or something like that. I know history about this event but also know that it called aya of sword. Clearly said about disbelief in Prophet law and call to battle for that reason.

WRONG CANT YOU READ THE SURAH FROM THE BEGINNING ?

And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths to them; they might cease.
Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.(912,13)

850 And if you could but see when the angels take the souls of those who disbelieved... They are striking their faces and their backs and , "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire.

When quranists don't agree with punishment in grave one of the argument is how punishment can be before the Day of Judgment. But here you see punishment before judgment.

388 Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.

God is more merciful than mother to her child. And what about this aya? What a purpose of eternal torture?

955 So let not their wealth or their children impress you. Allah only intends to punish them through them in worldly life and that their souls should depart while they are disbelievers.

God deprives them of the opportunity to repent and salvation ...why? Salvation is possible until the last breath...or not?

The ONE who gave us FREE WILL is going to judge according to what we did with that free will. Those who do good they will only get but GOOD, and those who did bad they will only get but bad. There is no problem with punishment before the day of judgement and no, repentance is not allowed at the time of death, you want to live a life of Alister Crowley then go to Heaven just because you said God forgive me 2 minutes before death when you knew your time is over ?

823 Had Allah known any good in them, He would have made them hear. And if He had made them hear, they would have turned away, while they were refusing.

Why God created them in that condition if they can't be believers by their nature? Before God created them He knew about them everything so why create them just for eternal fire? As you know from the history Abu Bakr accept Islam in one second cause he had brilliant mind and heart, Umar at first fought against Prophet and accept earlier according to his mind. Another man need some miracle to accept Islam, so you can see the difference between man's mind and nobody chose mind, so what is the fault of people from this aya if they don't received the mind and heart like Ali, Abu Bakr, Hadidja etc? Clear predestination without any chance to salvation?

You are in a Math exam right now, you revised so much for weeks and now you are writing everything correct, you are in the last question and the teacher said "WAIT HOLD ON LETS STOP ALL OF THIS BECAUSE I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WONT SUCCEED!" Will that be JUST?

SO MUCH assumptions and wishful thinking oh my god my eyes are hurting after writing this post.
Faith is given by God, to everyone, it's good for the heart, it changes the heart it makes us truly pure and good people. A rock hearted arrogant atheist whom his faith have been taken away by Satan can never be a good person. What is your problem with faith? Did Satan took away your faith?

good_logic

Peace Aliart.
Right from the beguining ,Qoran described both ,hell and Janna .then clearly said about both it is "Mathal"
224

If you cannot do this - and you can never do this - then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.
225

Give good news to those who believe and lead a righteous life that they will have gardens with flowing streams. When provided with a provision of fruits therein, they will say, "This is what was provided for us previously." Thus, they are given allegorical descriptions. They will have pure Azwaj therein, and they abide therein forever
226

God does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory*, from the tiny mosquito and greater. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did God mean by such an allegory?" He misleads many thereby, and guides many thereby...

All verses about Janna and Nar/hell are allegorical, unless you know someone who has been there and told you some facts about them and scaring you about hell!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Jafar

Brothers and sisters you advice me to think by myself and hear and see God's signs.

Yes you should.

But when I read some articles from people who said like that I get shocked. Some of them seems like one who suffer from mental illness.

Perhaps they actually are.

The entire concept of "salvation" by itself is absurd.
A You need to believe in X in order to be saved.
B Saved from what?
A Saved from the wrath of the loving God after you die!!!
B Please don't save me from the loving God, instead take me to Him!!

"Defeat the fear of death and you welcome the death of fear"
-- Siddharta

But that really think they are on a right path cause they truly think about Quran and try to see God's signs. After that I realize that this advice is not a solution of problems.

Thinking that we're already on the right path and others are on the wrong path is the root of the problem.

It is paradoxical, yet true, to say, that the more we know, the more ignorant we become in the absolute sense, for it is only through enlightenment that we shall become aware of our own ignorance.
-- Nicholas Tesla