2.178 ?Could the slain be animals?
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Quite long time ago, when the aya was discussed inthe forum, a member, I think it was Samia, suggested that the slain might animals. I do not remember whether just animals but animal as well as persons.
I found some merit to it. Female animals obviously give benefits to the owner that the male does not. If mammals they give milk, if chicking they give eggs, so th eocmpensation for slaying should adjust to the loss of the owner.
Can anybody find back that post or if not discuss it anew?
Salaam
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peace,
We discussed it in link below. I think bro Ayman's understanding is correct which I summarized here
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15944.0Thanks very much, wakas, I am hopeless in finding anything, and i do not know even the reason why I am unable to find. Sometimes I succeed and I am all surprised.
The thread, even after time, is very, very interesting, valuable. It might give even now further insights into the question.
I still find a lot of merit in Samia's idea of being applied with killed animals. My take, just know is that it is so worded that it can apply to any living thing.
On the other hand I do not think that non free and free and female are any axhaustive list but a pointer to the different kinds and values for the surviving successors of the dead subjects. Age, capacity to work or poduce would also have to be accurately considered. In fact I think the Qur'an is well ahead of time in everything, but we insist on going back as many centuries as possible in oder for the Qur'an to mean anything, whereas this aya 2.178 is completely to date if we take it at face value. Why do we have to go back to seventh century when we do not have the faintest idea of the seventh century, although we may think we are capable of such a feat as going back.Many times we do not even know what we are in now.
Again my thanks, wakas, it means a lot for me at this stage.
Salaam
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I have been ooking at for a while and I think that the closest equivalence to qisaas in English would be redress.
The root q-S-S indicates going back to something and bringing it back. That is what to tell a story is.
And if we look at aya 18.64 where it says they returned following their footprints, there is a purpose of undoing something, but since something cannot be undone, then redress as much as possible whatever can be redressed.
If someone loses a bread earner, then giving means to get the bread the deceased used to bring is a possible redress. It is not an equivalence or compensation, although it may be that too, but the idea I think is to undo the damage as much as it can be undone. This can be done as much is the dead is a person as if it is a swarm of bees, which by the way could be bred or wild.
Salaam
Salaam
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I still find a lot of merit in Samia's idea of being applied with killed animals. My take, just know is that it is so worded that it can apply to any living thing.
On the other hand I do not think that non free and free and female are any axhaustive list but a pointer to the different kinds and values for the surviving successors of the dead subjects. Age, capacity to work or poduce would also have to be accurately considered. In fact I think the Qur'an is well ahead of time in everything, but we insist on going back as many centuries as possible in oder for the Qur'an to mean anything, whereas this aya 2.178 is completely to date if we take it at face value. Why do we have to go back to seventh century when we do not have the faintest idea of the seventh century, although we may think we are capable of such a feat as going back.I wonder where is Samia now?
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Beyond, beyond...
I trust she is doing fine. Great forum-member, great poster. Indeed there has ben a collection of geniuses in this forum, we still have some, bur very rarely and few. We have wakas, who as much as a genius and contributor is also very patient keeping it going all this years and not letting it dying down.
Although the forum is not what it was, it still turns out to be a great help for those of us who still want to go beyond, beyond...Salaam
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Beyond, beyond...
I trust she is doing fine. Great forum-member, great poster. Indeed there has ben a collection of geniuses in this forum, we still have some, bur very rarely and few. We have wakas, who as much as a genius and contributor is also very patient keeping it going all this years and not letting it dying down.
Although the forum is not what it was, it still turns out to be a great help for those of us who still want to go beyond, beyond...Salaam
In 2008, this forum was packed. Do you remember that time dear sister?
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I still find a lot of merit in Samia's idea of being applied with killed animals.
I don't think Samia, the only Arab moderator in gone days, could use word animals for this Ayah.
The key word http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.178/1.Qisas%20Qaaf%20Suad%20Suad%20Episode%20follow%20footprints/1.gif which is of Form-III does not permit even thinking of animals have anything to do here.
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2 178 "O you who believe! Equality in punishment "qasaa" is prescribed for you in case of the murdered the free (male) for the free (male), the slave (male) for the slave (male) and the female for the female..."
I do not think this verse concerns humans. God speaks of "soul" when discussing humans. Souls have neither gender nor different freedom status (see all the above verses). It's about animals where a female animal stands a category by itself. Animals for entertainment, race..etc are different from animals for servitude.
Secondly, it gives legitmacy to the way people in Upper Egypt take revenge You killed my mother, I kill your mother or a similar female (or maybe two or more because your mother is already dead, and two or more of your aunts are equal to your mother).A great blunder by Samia on the thread linked by Waqas.
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The concept of Qasas in Quran is that if some one gets hurt from your actions, then an equivalent compensation commensurate with the hurt caused, should be paid to him by you.
An equivalency/relationship between the hurt caused and its appropriate equivalent compensation needs to be established keeping in view the circumstances. In some societies general guidelines exists, for example, in an accident a person loses his leg, what amount should be paid to him as compensation. The hurts can be physical or psychological, but the same rule apply.
Qasas is absolutely not that if someone hurts your eye, then you should hurt his eye too. If someone commits any bad or cruel act, he will have an equivalent misfortune befallen on him either the Law of the land punishing the person or some other physical or psychological misfortune inflicted on him by divine intervention. The believer who has been wronged by someone, need not take his revenge from the oppressor. He has to take help from this knowledge that the oppressor will get full compensation of his oppression as ordained in the Book. If the believer takes his own revenge then again a similar misfortune will befall on the believer himself as per divine law. For example if someone injures your ear wrongly, then as per divine law a misfortune proportionate to the injuring of your ear, will befall on the person doing it. Either he will get punishment from Law or an equivalent misfortune physical or psychological will befall on him. However, if you take a revenge by injuring his ear as well, then similar misfortune of injuring an ear will befall on you as well.
The believers help heal their psychological wounds with this knowledge if they have been wronged or oppressed. They don?t have to burn in the fire of revenge and hatred as this matter to be left to Allah to take care of. The best course of action is to forgive and let this matter for divine justice.
545
And we wrote on them in it (Taurat) ?Nafs for Nafs, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds are related.? Thus the one who pays with it, it is an atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge/govern with what Allah has revealed, they are Zalmin/Wrong-doers.
When Al-Kitab mentions An Eye for an Eye it does not mean you have to take out an eye in compensation of your damaged eye. It means that if you damage some one?s eye, you must pay an equivalent compensation for that wrong doing or otherwise an equivalent form of punishment will befall on you. Ayat 545 is sometimes misunderstood in terms of compensation and people think that it means an eye is the compensation of an eye. However if you study Ayat 545 and 2178 together; in the same Arabic syntax in which Ayat 545 says an eye for an eye, Ayat 2178 says a woman for a woman, a slave for a slave. It is evident that if you kill some one?s woman, you will be punished for that crime, not your woman.
2178
O you who believe! the Qasas is written on you in murder. the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.
2179
In Qasas there is Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.
Ayat 2178 says that Qasas is written on you which means Qasas is mandatory on believers. (Same syntax as fasting is written/mandatory on you in Ayat 2183). However, Quran mentions Qasas is for life not for death in Ayat 2179. It means that Capital punishment is not allowed. Ayat 17150 states that the Wali of the victim should not transgress in killing as he is the helped one ( i.e he will get compensation and help from Allah as well).
1733
Nor take life ? which Allah has made sacred ? except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority; let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped one.
4239
And those who, when a wrong reaches them, they help themselves
The believers help themselves when they are wronged from the knowledge of the fact that the oppressor who have oppressed them will meet similar fate (by Allah) i.e fully recompensed by Allah for their wrongful acts.
4240
The recompense for a wrong doing is a similar wrong doing (which will be inflicted by Allah). but if a person forgives and makes correction, his reward is due from Allah. for (Allah) does not love those who do wrong.
The point here is that the recompense of the wrong will be inflicted by Allah, therefore taking revenge is not allowed, and the person who forgives with this knowledge, will be compensated by Allah.
4241
But indeed if any do help themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no way.
If the believer retaliate to an oppressor with a similar wrongdoing, then he will be in the same boat, therefore the believers must help themselves with the knowledge that this is not their way of doing things.
4242
This way is for those who oppress people and do wrong-doings in the Earth without right, for such there will be a grievous penalty.
4243
and the one who shows patience and forgive, that would truly be from the great affairs
4134
Nor is goodness and Evil equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better. Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were your friend and intimate!
Again it is said that that goodness and badness are not equal. The order for the believers is to respond to badness and hurts with something much better. They have to respond the wrongdoing on them with a good response and the result will be end of hatred among former enemies.
Notes
2693
??Besides Allah? Can they help you or help themselves??
The Arabic word Antasar means ?to help one self? as evident in above Ayat. This is to illustrate that this word has been translated by all translators as to ?help one self? in this Ayat, however, on other occasions in Quran, some of the translators have translated this word as revenge, which is not be the case.
16126
If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient ones.
If the scope of oppression falls under criminal code, then society and law of the land will follow the criminals. The punishments for any crime should be proportionate to the crime as prevalent in most judicial systems in the world. The oppressed ones should be patient as worldly judicial system takes their time in execution. Also, if the judicial system in the world fail to impart appropriate punishment to the criminals, there is no way that they will escape their due punishment from Allah.
https//topicsfromquran.com/2017/06/04/qasas/
