What is the ayya stated in 23.50 and in 21.91
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I meant Surah 23 not 50 sister.
GOD bless -
Al-'Ankabut 2915
Right
But We saved him and the companions of the ship, and We made it a sign for the worlds.
Right, "We made IT (the ark, or the event of the ark) a sign for the worlds"
But Maryam and her son and 'Isaa and their mother, they themselves, are an ayya for the worlds.
We can have an idea of the kind of ayya that the ark was, that does not seem to be a mystery, although, like in all cases, each heart ill find something paticular in it. But the point is that we seem to have dispatched the phenomenon Maryam and and Maryam and 'Isaa, very happily as if there was nothing to it. However the Qur'an says it two ways that they are an ayya for the worlds, she an he, he and she.Peace huruf.
According to the context of the verses in surah 50, GOD is listing messengers to their people starting at 2323 with Noah, carrying on with many other messengers not named after Noah, then with Moses and Aaron and eventually Issa and Maryem.
Then summarising with 2351
2351
O you messengers, eat from the good provisions, and work righteousness. I am fully aware of everything you do."Messengers addressed here are all the ones mentioned from 2323 i.e Noah, the messengers after him, Moses, Aaron, Ibn Meriem and his mother( O you messengers....)
Surely one cannot argue here and say Meriem is not mentioned with the other messengers or argue messengers here only mean all the others ,not Meriem?
GOD bless you.
Peace.Yes you are right and I am glad you see it that way. The same thing happens with sura 21 an nabiyun.
Some people seem to see this as a fight to show that women too can be prophets, which is silly, and as if that was some worldly need to have to have women prophets. That of course is nonsense. Prophethood is not contagious and least of all is it shared sexwise or exercised with the sexual organs.
Als it is funny that she is refused as a prophet because she did not speak nor transmit a worded messaged, but at the same time she is refused prophethood, because whe as called truthful (and not prophet). Now if she did not speak nor bring a worded message how on earth could she be truthful or untruthful?
Never mind.
Thank youboth for your answers, but mya question goes as I have answere New Frency, what an ayya are they?
Salaam
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I have found some substantial research in the following link
https//quranguideblog.wordpress.com//?s=Mariam&search=Go
Please read carefully the points raised therein and take honestly your stands on Mariam (pbuh) and Jesus as well based on words of Quran.
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That quranguideblog seems quite interesting.
I inten to read the part about Maryam and Isa, which may take some time reading and digesting.
Still, my question stands
What is the aya meant by God, when He says that Maryam and her son and Isa and her mother are an ayya?
Salaam
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Nowhere it is said that she is a virgin, least of all that she is a virgen at the time of birth of the son.
As to the cradle, it is not certain either. But at any rate, suppose we take those as ayyas, ayyas of what? God's omnipotence? we have greater things than tht before as a proof of that, and this ayya is unique in the whole of Qur'an, it is the only case where people are an ayya. There are things about Maryam and 'isaa that go beyond the speaking and the useless supposed phenomenon of a virgin birth.And I mean useless because nobody was a in a position to know. Maryam never said that, which even if it was truth, nobody could imagine nor know that she was virgin and she did not say a word to make anybody think so. So the world should have waited thousand or more years in order to be aware of that, and even that without any certainty since the Qur'an does nto say such a thing and does not hint of it unequivocally. If it was that important it would have been stated with all clarity.
Salaam
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There is something in the Qur'an that is almost unique to Maryam and by extensi?n to her son.
Only twice in the Qur'an does God blow of His spirit into "people" once, when He blew of his spirit into the bashar to make them human after having formed them
The second time into Maryam. Only those two times does God blow of his spirit into a human being
21.91
And (remember) her who guarded her chastity We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.
66.12
And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body, farch) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).
We started to be humans when God blew of His spirit into the bashar
There is a step we cannot take till we do not share in the spirit blown by God into Maryam.
The first spirit blown into humans we inherit. The one into Maryam we do not inherit. But it is there, because she and her son are an ayya.
If we deny this ayya we will be condemned to creep on land, if we accept it and acknowlege it, we might be like those like birds formed by 'isaa and blown into by 'isaa and with God's permission become like birds.
Salaam
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Huruf...
You are really crossing the limit Now.... You are manifestly insulting one of the greatest of examples presented by God for women.. Marryam was truthful (Siddiqa) not merely by her words but by her actions too... How do you
give a negative opinion that Maryyam was not Virgin.. Based on what??? Do you know what is virgin. .... If you have forgotton let me remind you. Virgin is the one who has never had sexual intercourse either with legitimate spouse or illegal one... It means in case of a women, she has preserved Her private part completely... In simple language a body which has never experienced sexual relationship.....What does 2191 expalains if not Chastity?... Now.. What is Chastity... Keeping away all sexual relationship other than of his or her legitimate spouse.....
Now combine both Chastity and Virgin.... What is the word used for Chastity in 2191 (FAR'JAHA) her Chastity.. And what is the word used in 235 (FURUJIHIM) Their Chastity...same word... Is not the verse 235 talking of Chastity and next verse 236 is confirmation for that.. So Chastity of Maryam by verse 2191 is crystal clear..
Now let's see how she became a virgin by being or preserving Chastity in her..
1920 " She (Maryam) said how can I have a son when no man has touched me (yamsasni), nor I am (Baghiyya) disobedient /transgressing /unchaste / prostitute ...
Maryam Herself answered to your blasphemy... If Maryam has never had any relationship with any men sexually and if she preserved Her Chastity, then what make one to deduce she is not Virgin... What logic is this?
Do you understand now, how hurtful for a real man when someone is making a against a pure woman a statement against her character...
Unfortunately, your vision curtained by just attempting to prove something preconceived in your mind about the verse 2191, making you to say and denigrade the Chastity of Maryam In the verse to highlight something else...
Every one can perceive by the clear verse that Mary and her son is stated as a Sign... But your preconceived thought failed to grasp Her Virginity in quran in very simple language...
May God save the believers from arrogance.... -
Peace
Is it not a well known fact that a pregnant woman could not be a virgin? I am sure every woman was a virgin once but no woman can get pregnant without her eggs being fertilized by a male sperm, unless of course you believe in parthenogenesis. I am sure Allah works through processes that he has determined himself, or do you think Allah broke his own sunnah in Maryam's case? Please enlighten us with your logical and scientific explanation.
Thank youPeace
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Peace
Is it not a well known fact that a pregnant woman could not be a virgin? I am sure every woman was a virgin once but no woman can get pregnant without her eggs being fertilized by a male sperm, unless of course you believe in parthenogenesis. I am sure Allah works through processes that he has determined himself, or do you think Allah broke his own sunnah in Maryam's case? Please enlighten us with your logical and scientific explanation.
Thank youPeace
SLM ,
i think you can see this as 2 separate things
1 Chasity / being decent thats why she get chosen --> virgin
2 the pregnant ( in this case of a prophet) --> not virgin
how is get she pregnant
first angel came like a man
1917- And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.and they left to an other place ...
1922- So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.there is no miracle needit ( ofcourse with the blessing of Allah)
she left for a while then she came back with an child
1927 - Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
1928- O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste." here they asking why she was unchaste while their parents were "worthy " in their eyes ...May Allah guide us to the straight path
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Nice slander on the part of a very virtuous person who knows the intimate life of Maryam's, as he goes, better than God himself, Because God in the Qur'an has nto shared with us anything about Maryam's private life nor of anybody else's private life. God tell us not to pry on people's private life.
But like hadithists is seems that prophets' are not entitled to that respect.
At any rate he Kaltun must be thanked for derailing a thread about Maryam, whom, under the guise of defending virginity as unversal alue only for women, he is in fact downgrading.
May God reward him.
All other people, please, keep to the thread.
Salaam
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Sorry, I made a mistake in my previous post. I do not know why sometimes my screen goes by and I saw kaltun where in fact the post was by Jkhan. Sorry for that. My mistake.
As to jkhan he should learn tor ead before launching slander.
Not me saying Maryam was or wasn't a virgin. God did not say. As simple as that.And nobody has a reaosn to know or to want to know. Getting into that is trespassing God's limits set very clearly manywhere int he Qur'an.
But of course, it was a nice way to get cheap points in this case against me, where he is defending something that does not have to be defended because it is neither here nor there.
Should we start a thread on the virginity of anybody in particular?
The bad ways of hadithists have in fact been incorporated into mainstream islam, making women's intimate life a matter of public interest. That is disgusting.
Let us keep to the question, and let us stop deameaning Maryam ont he pretext of her virginity which is a matter, rather was a matter of her exclusive domain, nothing for anybody to talk about.
Does jKhan that we should talk about his virginity?
Sorry gain kaltun for the mistake.
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SLM Huruf,
i was writing an post , my native language is not English neither ( as you can read ) , so after 10 min i post the answer ... it went away , i waited to long , but i see now your second post ....
first of all My KNOWLEDGE of the Quran is very small ..... if i react to a post or thread , i have indeed an image about the knowledge that i have... and if its wrong ill be glad to hear that , i know i dont and cant know everything. this place ( free-mind) is an masjid , wallhalla , jumaah , zen place for me , i hope(d) to learn the real message .. and also i know this is not only place to learn ...and i know the biggest helper is ALLAH....
but the ayya what you talking about , could this not meant for people who read the Quran after some era ??
like ( i read it here somewhere) this person said very simple thing...
he told when the date ripde and fell from the tree , is the last stadium of ripe is in december , christian celebrating his birthday also in december... and if its true 9 months before came the RUH and i lost it for further , not there yet , but the idea to find prove in the real life via Quran is astonishing , like we have the sun and the moon to tel us the time ...so much to learn ... love it
May Allah guide us to the straight path
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Indeed we are here to learn and I have learnt a lot in this forum, although it has seen much better times. Lately is not so lively, but indeed even when we read things we think are completely wrong th fact ot going into detail oneself does show things one may not have seen before.
Virginity is not mentionned int he Qur'an, it is not a value. Chastity is, but the model of chastity is any prophet and more thna any other prophet is Yusuf, who went to prison and risked death for it and did overcome temptation.
On the other hand, what is unambiguous, is that God Blew only twice of His rugh into beings once on the basha to turn it into the human kind and then into Maryam. Only twice int he whole existence of existence that we are told in Qur'an. And the great aya should be virginity whis is not even mentionned.
And again the Qur'an warns us repeatedly about intruding the intimacy of people. What greater invasion than prying into
when one does something as intimate as having sxual intimacy.On the other hand the verb ahsanat is past as guarding chastity but it is not that, it was imposed on the Qur'an later. in fact muhsanat which is the femini passive are given other translations. But it has gone the same way as other words, when they refer to women they are made to mean something else.
What is important about Maryam is not whether virgin orchaste. Of course she was chate since God chose her over the worlds, and over the women of the worlds, but the point was not that but that God told her of fact fact and she did accept and carried out the mission God chose her for.
She is not only an exceptional woman, but an exceptional being since God blew directly into her of His spirit. No single person Has had that after the first blewing into the first human lot. The only person, male or female.
Salaam
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Very sorry i made a mistake last night ,
I should have said both of them are a sign for us .
They themselves are a sign for the world
The sign is them
They are the sign
Maryam and isa ibn maryam are a sign.
That is the sign stated .I have read many sign verses, allah made some peoples a sign for peoples , rhe pharo is also a sign , the one who got resurected after 100 year is a sign , raining is a sign .....
Sign is the person or the events happened with the person i dont know i dont know zakariya asked to make a sign so allah made him to not speak so he not speaking is a sign for himself what is the use of that sign what is this sign these are kept inside the books we cant see those signs except nature signs,
Or may be sign is a bad translation of ayaMy bad england sorry
Allah knows best
I sign off
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peace newfrenzy
your post make me laugh the way u explained signs how cute you are. rotflexactly brother there are signs upon signs everywhere in this universe and the universes what we have no knowlede off
But you forget to add one sign big one CODE 19
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Dear All,
Every Ayah (Verse /Sign/other meanings) mentioned in the entire Quran has a value to reflect for those who reflect and it is a Mercy from God.. 3190 ???. .. there are SIGNS for men POSSESSED OF MINDS? .. 133 ? ??. ? Surely in that are SIGNS for people who REFLECT.?
So Signs are meant to be given Thought / reflect on it? Based on that lets discuss the below..
349-50
49 ?To be a Messenger to the Children of Israel saying, "I have come to you WITH A SIGN from your Lord. I will create for you out of clay as the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird, by the leave of God. I will also heal the blind and the leper, and bring to life the dead, by the leave of God. I will inform you too of what things you eat, and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.?
50. Likewise confirming the truth of the Torah that is before me, and to make lawful to you certain things that before were forbidden unto you. I have come to you WITH A SIGN from your Lord; so fear you God, and obey you me?
In the above two verses Isa the Son of Maryam didn?t say that I AM A SIGN but He said ?I have come WITH a Sign? He performed many a signs as per above verses but He said I came with ?A? sign.. God Made Isa a SIGN for the people.. but as we are people we have to REFLECT how Isa a SIGN.. Do we consider Isa above all other Prophets and be satisfied that he was a SIGN or Do we have to reflect the factors how he can be a sign which is unusual from others? Isa didn?t said to the people that I am a sign.. that?s meaningless for Isa to say Himself.. But for God, to say Isa is a Sign for People 1921 or Isa & Maryam a Sign (2191) has strong meaning.. Coz God talks of His OWN Signs as of any other His signs..
Once example is Isa?s Birth? it is a sign to reflect how it is possible away from the regular Sunna/way of God? And to reflect how God went away from His regular Sunnah by letting Isa to make the Dead Alive again? it?s not the regular Sunnah of God? but He let Isa to do.. We all know once people die they wont come to this world again. It?s extremely against God?s Sunna ? Why Isa let the dead return from ? just Isa wanted to give the spectators a bit of fun or to make them feel that Isa was something extraordinary from normal human.. No? No.. he was a man as of any human.. He himself accept it in quran verse..Then What was the purpose God gave Isa to perform the dead to return..God doesn?t want to come to this world and perform the same thing what Isa did and confirm that there is God.. or God doesn?t want to make the dead alive without letting know who actually did it.. Then further confusion.. but God let Isa to perform it to show to that community (as a mercy) and to whoever reads the quran that there is nothing God can?t perform? So here actually Isa as a person Sign or What he did with the will of God is a Sign or for that matter How Isa was born important or who was behind it for such a miraculous birth is important?Sign is birth or the one behind it? God wants us to highlight Isa or God wants us to think His power through what Prophet Isa did?1921 He said, "Thus ; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him (Isa) a Sign to the people (Naas) and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter decreed.
As per my understanding the above verse strictly apt for the children of Isreal (specially those witnessed Isa) coz Sign FOR the People and A MERCY involved? ?He was a sign for his community and it was mercy coz sending Isa to that community for them to witness all those miraculous signs which no other has witnessed is extreme Mercy bestowed on that community by God..
If we just take the verse 2191 .. As if both Isa & Maryam were Sign as physical body as persons.. and not what actually happened with them then it is blind conviction to the love of those two denigrating the Power of GOD.. Nothing (Person/s or Object/s or Event/s etc ) cannot call it/them selves as Sign.. But God can call them coz they are His Sign/s who created the signs..
These are the reason we have to REFLECT with verses which speak of SIGNs (not the verses but actual SIGNS)..In the matter of Virginity .. Yes.. if one is conceived she loses her virginity.. that?s a well known truth.. That?s regular sunnah of God.. But important thing is how one can get conceived is through sexual relation and by inserting manually, etc.. whatever it is, it is by the help of male?s sperm.. In the case of Maryam both options are not acceptable.. That?s why God went away from His regular Sunna and it is only possible by God? and not with any human?Showing something a man or jin cannot do is a SIGN from God, for sure? Whatever the signs Isa brought were away from regular sunna.. or for that matter what Moses did..That?s why God keep repeating even after Isa was born ?The one who guarded her Chastity?
Ah.. about blowing the spirit.. Only two times mentioned in quran (I didn?t verify) doesn?t mean that God would have done it only two times.. God doesn?t mention everything He does.. Don?t forget He has created Jibreal Michael and and all other Jins and creatures no men or jin touched and many of animals etc.. How He created no one knows?
And as per you if it is two times then there is another occasion ? And it is more worthy coz it could be first ever time? Isn?t that a sign then?
What is the use of talking about my Virginity.. who will benefit or people are jobless to read about my story of virginity? am I a Hollywood celebrity? ?
God guide and bless us..