Nature of Satan
-
the jinn created 1st (iblis)
the human created 2nd (adam)command given to l-malikatu (includes jinn type)
not iblis refused then became jinn he was alreadypeace and blessing!
Thank you brother noon for replying
the jinn created 1st (iblis)
the human created 2nd (adam)The above statement is understood
command given to l-malikatu (includes jinn type)
This I did not understand? Why is it including Jinn? Is it the Arabic language Grammer? If so can you explain to me little bit more. I mean if the command was only to Angels (controllers) how would it been addressed?
God bless you
-
I agree, taking the story literally is a problem like when it is said
"get down from here"peace brother hawk,
i was just busy in some personal matters thats y repling late..this thing once asked from me "get down from here" its not that hard to tackle though..
example if somebody's in fort and king order him get down/descend/get away from here .. its just the way how author select the words..
people usually think earth is on ground level and heaven/paradise is on 2nd, 3rd, fourth floor thats not the case..thats why they take this desending physically..
What does the garden story represent metaphorically to you?
after thinking and reading a lot, different NEW things comes in mind whenever u read that story, it appears its a metaphorical story in shape of lesson about the nature and properties of human bodies(provided with characters) weakness, intelligence, secured future, desires, fear of losing something, are described in a story manner.
What is the one way, dinn, religion, path, guidance according to you?
whatever is to me doesnt really matter brother..i m gone far away now.
the only blind following thing was quran in my life but true creator give me lessons of life i applied some rules from that book that turn my tables upside down,once i was blind followed my nation,family,values,fika BUT slowly slowly i learn a painful truth, it was a pain for a bit but then i realise its good that i discover the truth/or their hidden side before i waste more time..
then i suddenly discover freeminds several years ago.. from then only blind faith if i got was QURAN.. (was still in me) but unfortunately things are not going in line (lot of things) ..
if God wills to misguide someone there is none can guide him(in case of quran) if he wills to misguide me by the painful memories of my life and if he wills to bring negative results from my faith upon quran , then as a human nature i cant help myself , either the pressure of thinking make me insane so better not to think about it( means a distance from all religious dogmas)
is that possible when there was banu abbasi era was goin on people/scholars change the meanings of something to something else and install it in a dictionary and its no way back to check either whats the truth behind that word? that first thing come in my mind when i had failed experiments from advices of quran.. i m helpless in this , if i m going on wrong path i also know therez nothing that can change me apart from creator.. so lets see where i end.
honesty and blind faith = (DANGEROUS combination)
nope I do not know what Iblis was made of in the previous state.
actually what i get from text , there was not any previous nature of ibless, he was always naar , and he is naar..
about label/status we can say God blessed him some features what controllers got it like any controlling powers..
its like a police department.. once a human/jinn/(any being) was controller of traffic/crimes..and then he refused to obey the rules/commands/system and he get suspended/disqualified/sacked ...
now he will do the crimes as he already knows how controllers work and hez experienced in doing crimes. from his experience he can give a huge loss to society/law as he already know the high and low of his field...
another question here (what if ibless want to seek forgiveness) ? as much i think about that story more disturbing questions comes in my mind.. may God help us all..
-
Peace All.
I want to ,make the following observations about Qoran1-GOD can never be unjust. I have no doubt GOD started the creation from a level playing field. All creations had a choice in what to become/do/experience... A good question to ask ourselves is Why would GOD create "divisions" and "ranks" among his creations if His attributes are what it says in Qoran?
Because that would be unfair from a starting point even in our logic .
So did the classifications and ranks that we are in now resulted from the creations themselves? i.e Malaika, Jinn Ins, Animal....etc? And the ranks within each category?2-GOD does not initiate guidance or misguidance. The created decide the changes they want. "GOD does not change the situation of anyone unless they make the decision to change themselves"
GOD lets you be who you choose /decide to be. On the contrary ,because GOD is Merciful and does not want the creations to choose the wrong path, has helped with a message /light / way to live...But GOD does not force any way on the creations.3- Learning always has to go through stages and experience. Making the right choices need knowledge and experience.
All creations, unless they are created robots, will undergo the journey of finding the right way.
GOD facilitates(or makes things difficult) depending on the choice/decision of right learning/ bad learning of the created.4- There is no easy access to "eternal life" except going through ones choices and decisions/experience to get there. It may take many life cycles . The true knowledge needs to be learned and experienced.
5- Qoran indicates that this life will be a journey for us humans that will lead to two different life cycles depending of what one earned.
We choose our destiny and earn our rank/ classification for the next one . Each one of us does that through the choices/decisions we make. If there are exceptions, they are carried on from the last life cycle according to GOD s knowledge of the souls , and adds to our test .My own understanding of Iblees is there is a limit one reaches at the top or bottom of the pile/ranks and Iblees has reached a way of no return through his own decision . He is fully aware of where he is and part of his traits of this rank is to take other souls with him in the next cycle.
GOD never breaks a promise and never enforces a way on anyone, but gives chances of forgiveness if the creations decide to correct.
In short we make our own nature and Iblees has made his.
GOD bless you all.
Peace -
None of your explanations is relevant to us. Whether he was expelled, disobeyed God or not, whether he was a jinn or angel, none of this is relevant to us.
"Satan is your enemy so take it as an enemy"
So which part of us is us, and which part is Satan ? No storytelling, no speaking of the unseen or unknown, just YOU and YOUR observation on your own thoughts and conduct, YOU SHOULD tell who/what is Satan TO YOU.
Enough with the storytelling.
-
Or ,if you want stories/think stories are useful/necessary, tell the story to yourself and learn from it.
each will have to tell himself/herself the stories for their own learning.My satan does a lot of bad things for me( the imaginary person) and I do very few good things for me(the real person).
In fact ,I disobey my creator more than I disobey my satan. In fact I rarely notice I am obeying satan thinking I am more indepedent and clever.
That leaves me with a mountain to climb to try to see things from me(the reaL person). My satan shows me my delusion very easily and I take him for my real self.
Adam and his partner did the same.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
your question is logical and important, @ kaltun
as we see according to text he asked the permission from his LORD/manufacturer to give him TIME or CONTROL untill the day when planet earth will expire. so he was granted.
you can get that answer from text but my question is a real thing to ponder ust think about it...
what if IBLESS want to seek forgiveness or he do TOBA ? as we know God is all merciful
and if he do toba and HUMANity still have a purpose?
will he b forgiven ?
if Progeny of IBLESS and progeny of ADAM work together they can easily pass the stage of games / level of grades / rewards whatever required for acquiring so called paradise yhen i think everybody will b chilling ? (but just due to one supreme controller we cant chill)when this question come the story teller whoever yhey are never think all
that blame is going on master controller of situation ? so i highly doubt about that story and yhe parts pf that story dosent really make sense and if something doesnt make sense its not from the real CREATOR -
Peace HAWK,
lets use malaika FOR angels in your interpretation.
ok
234 And We said to the malaika "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for ibless, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters.
is (wakana) was, were, became or is?
points to noted..
it ADRESSED to all malaika including
malaika = IBLESS (duties =unknown), production material (NAAR)very interesting hmm
lets move on to 1850 now..
1850 When We said to the controllers "Submit to Adam." They all submitted except for Satan, he was of the Jinn, so he disobeyed the order of his Lord. "Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?" Miserable for the wicked is the substitute
Again were have the word (kana) does it mean was, were, is, or became.
NOW i ll gona bring 16 49 and something i just discovered now..
1649 To God prostrate all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, from the creatures as well as the controllers, and they are not arrogant.
i m stuck here if this verse is saying no one can go against God.. either its controller or creatures.. then we are in a big ILLUSION.
as we know lot of humans and jinns and one of the controller(JIN) already disobeyed... even first human disobeyed...
adam n eve is the biggest ever myth i had in my life.. every single time i think about it research about it.. i feel there is something fishy.
Nothing disobeys Allah (SWT) as per Quran, the ayats of the Quran explain
reality, that is, what Iblis represents and what Adam represents.And verily We have displayed for mankind in this Qur'an all manner of
similitudes, (mathalin) but man is more than anything contentious.brother hawk,
people dnt know the nature of angels apart from the concept of light ..
thats why i said leave that traditional angel at side and see what people think and debate ..understood
ibless was angel ( he was creation of light) then he became jinn ( creation of fire) ? is that you are trying to say.. ?
No I have not found the description of light as per Quran, Iblis was angel,
loss status as angel that's were my understanding ends.My question is
Was Iblis type of Malika who was inherently not suited to yield to humans
and it became obvious when the creation of man was announced or was
the nature of Iblis "changed" because of the creation of man?714 He said, "Grant me respite until the day they are resurrected?"
715 He said "You are granted."
716 He said "For that which You have caused me to be misled, I will stalk for them on Your straight path."so its mean he is still asking something from God.. mean he is not a disbeliever, he believes in God and his believe was not even a blind belief like us ?
and he is blaming God as well, what going on.. ?
in all this story its appears to me.. God is causing trouble between creations of FIRE and CLAY ?
Yes all submit to God, even Iblis. This creation has cause and effect,
positive and negative, Free will, Iblis is an integral and essential part
of this reality.And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a
loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,
Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah ,
and indeed to Him we will return."peace
-
This one is interesting, made by History channel..
History Channel The Origin and Evolution of Satan
https//youtu.be/9TICXpY6B3wIf Satan really exist and he possess characteristics as described in the Bible + Quran + Talmud + Hadith (in short based on legends of the Semites). Then there's no need to worry of having him (or her) as adversary.
As it's told that Satan is Arrogant and Proud.Arrogance and Ignorance goes hand in hand and Fall always come after the Pride.
He will underestimate his adversary, and being proud, he always failed to recognize any weakness within himself nor strength within his adversary, thus he never evolve for the better compared to his adversary. While his adversary as time progress will become stronger and better than himself.If any of you have enemies / adversaries / competitors. Keep a close eyes on those who are humble.. as they are far more dangerous than those who are arrogant and proud.
Having said that, a humble enemies are indeed worthy enemies, certainly deserves your respect.
-
brother hawk you mixed my old post with your new. lol
you quoted me twice on same post i have a new post after that post. i just looked it now.
i think we will discuss it more i made a thread about all data about of root JNN. -
Satan, Iblis, Lucifer, and Shayton are names for the same being and the most we know is that he used to be an angel according to ayat like 234 that say, "And We said to the angels "Yield to Adam," so they yielded except for Satan, he refused and became arrogant, and became of the rejecters." And that he's made of fire (712) which implies that he's a jinn and maybe an Ifriti. No human on earth can say anything for certain beyond that because even the jinn that talk about him during exorcisms or to satanists could be lying and there's no way for us to verify any other details since he's invisible to us. And I don't see why it would matter.
-
It appears my new technic of responding needs work ;D
this thing once asked from me "get down from here" its not that hard to tackle though..
example if somebody's in fort and king order him get down/descend/get away from here .. its just the way how author select the words..
Maybe, the whole get down to the earth physically is the position of many.
people usually think earth is on ground level and heaven/paradise is on 2nd, 3rd, fourth floor thats not the case..thats why they take this desending physically..
something like that.
after thinking and reading a lot, different NEW things comes in mind whenever u read that story, it appears its a metaphorical story in shape of lesson about the nature and properties of human bodies(provided with characters) weakness, intelligence, secured future, desires, fear of losing something, are described in a story manner.
Yes, I've concluded that it is an expose' of human and jinn nature.
whatever is to me doesnt really matter brother..i m gone far away now.
the only blind following thing was quran in my life but true creator give me lessons of life i applied some rules from that book that turn my tables upside down,once i was blind followed my nation,family,values,fika BUT slowly slowly i learn a painful truth, it was a pain for a bit but then i realise its good that i discover the truth/or their hidden side before i waste more time..
then i suddenly discover freeminds several years ago.. from then only blind faith if i got was QURAN.. (was still in me) but unfortunately things are not going in line (lot of things) ..
if God wills to misguide someone there is none can guide him(in case of quran) if he wills to misguide me by the painful memories of my life and if he wills to bring negative results from my faith upon quran , then as a human nature i cant help myself , either the pressure of thinking make me insane so better not to think about it( means a distance from all religious dogmas)
is that possible when there was banu abbasi era was goin on people/scholars change the meanings of something to something else and install it in a dictionary and its no way back to check either whats the truth behind that word? that first thing come in my mind when i had failed experiments from advices of quran.. i m helpless in this , if i m going on wrong path i also know therez nothing that can change me apart from creator.. so lets see where i end.
honesty and blind faith = (DANGEROUS combination)
actually what i get from text , there was not any previous nature of ibless, he was always naar , and he is naar..
about label/status we can say God blessed him some features what controllers got it like any controlling powers..
its like a police department.. once a human/jinn/(any being) was controller of traffic/crimes..and then he refused to obey the rules/commands/system and he get suspended/disqualified/sacked ...
now he will do the crimes as he already knows how controllers work and hez experienced in doing crimes. from his experience he can give a huge loss to society/law as he already know the high and low of his field...
another question here (what if ibless want to seek forgiveness) ? as much i think about that story more disturbing questions comes in my mind.. may God help us all..
In my journey I have found that trust in the creator must be adhered to and that
Allah will teach our hearts.He found you astray, and guided you.
peace
-
if iblis makes tauba that means he would accept humans and he would support us and this means we as humanity would live immeditly like in paradise.
But thats not the case
Yeah, if the jinn folk acquiesce to the adamites it would indeed be a better world.
Question who is Al-Bashar
peace
-
No human on earth can say anything for certain beyond that because even the jinn that talk about him during exorcisms or to satanists could be lying and there's no way for us to verify any other details since he's invisible to us. And I don't see why it would matter.
Here's what matter...
Based on facts, including historical facts, the labeling of "Satan" / "Devil" are being used by human to justify "Devilish" deed by human to another human.Some example
- Witchhunt (especially in Medieval era), resulting in 100,000 (labeled as) witches dead
- Holy War / Crusade / Jihad (Millions dead)
- Inquisition 10,000 (labeled as) devil worshiper dead
- Terrorism (including Islamic Terrorism)
- The recently infamous war against "Axis Of Evil" (200,000 Dead)
What are the characteristic of Satan / Devil / Iblis which you can't find among humans?
- Arrogance and Pride
- Ignorance and Stupidity
- Egocentricity
- Lies and Deceit
- Vengeance
- Hatred
- Torture and Brutality
Human doesn't need any help from a "ghostly" figure to become "Satan".
Infact human now has evolved to be better than Mr Satan on doing devilish deed thus it's a proper time for Mr Satan to retire (if he does exist).And usually the accusation / labeling of "Satan" are infact being used by Satanic Human to justify their satanic deed performed to another human.
-
It appears that the difference between bashar and insaan is that
the bashar is the physical body and insaan is the nature.Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee khaliqun basharan min salsalin min hama-inmasnoonin
And , when your Lord said to the Mal?ikah/Angels,
?I will create a human being (Basharan) out of clay from an altered black mud.Inna al-insana khuliqa halooAAan
Indeed, mankind was created anxious.
Is this understanding consistent with Quran. hmm
-
It appears that the difference between bashar and insaan is that
the bashar is the physical body and insaan is the nature.Wa-ith qala rabbuka lilmala-ikatiinnee khaliqun basharan min salsalin min hama-inmasnoonin
And , when your Lord said to the Mal?ikah/Angels,
?I will create a human being (Basharan) out of clay from an altered black mud.Inna al-insana khuliqa halooAAan
Indeed, mankind was created anxious.
Is this understanding consistent with Quran. hmm
Peace Hawk
Yes we all know it's a tricky subject... If you claim bashar and insan as of above... You have to explain 2312 in which insan created by clay.... As hard is of course we human and insan... But this Naas is so complicated... Read 224 ... How come only Naas and stones be fuel of Hell while Jinn also part of hell? Is naas include jinn here in this verse? Got to be... But if so chapter 114 need to be explained where Naas and Jinn mentioned.. Does naas can be used for Jinn and Men together and separate as well?
God guide us