Names of Allah - Al-Hay (the Ever-Living), Al-Qayoom (the Sustainer of All)
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Salamun Alaikum
You have come up with a very good thought about La ilaha illAllah and its tradtionally accepted translation which to me has always been suspect. If I remember correctly, Brother Abdun Nur has in years gone by told us that "La ilaha illa Allah" means there is 'No God but only Allah' which I am more comfortable with, and he further said that "Allah who is not God". Now that you have brought this up and cited AQ 3/2, I am more convinced that Allah is not a god, the reason being that Allah doesn't need anything whereas a God needs to be worshipped.
Thank you for bringing this subject up and hopefully knowledgeable forum members help you, myself and others with clearer explanations regarding this core message of The Qur'an.
Salam
It depends on wht people or each person understsnds by God and by god.
On the other hand, no God does not need absolutely anythying at ll, neither worship or anything, it is we, people who need to worship God, that is to acknowledge in all truth and humility what we are in respecto to him.
I do not want to start again on the question of whether we serve God or we worship God. We do serve God whether we want it or not, because simply God can use us in whichever way He wants. That is why we worship God, becuse if we "serve" Him it cannot be the same kind of service we may give any other being. God cannot benefit nor suffer from us serving Him or disserving Him. But we do benefit if we serve Him in worship, that is acknowledging what we are with respect to him by our own will.Salaam
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I guess it would be the root 3ayn-ba-dal.
Also may be sad-lam-waw
But the question I insist is that we do serve God, whether we want it or even know or not. The question poses itself within us, if we acknowledge our own condition as beings.
People may have 3ibad servants, which yes, it would be de same root or word, but we cannot feel nor are the same thing towards somebody we serve a to God, even if it is also voluntary, because nobody is God except God, and we obey Him voluntarily when we worship, whereas we would serve him all the same if we did not want to serve Him, but we would not worship Him. So we would be the loosers.
Salaam
Salaam
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It depends on wht people or each person understsnds by God and by god.
On the other hand, no God does not need absolutely anythying at ll, neither worship or anything, it is we, people who need to worship God, that is to acknowledge in all truth and humility what we are in respecto to him.
I do not want to start again on the question of whether we serve God or we worship God. We do serve God whether we want it or not, because simply God can use us in whichever way He wants. That is why we worship God, becuse if we "serve" Him it cannot be the same kind of service we may give any other being. God cannot benefit nor suffer from us serving Him or disserving Him. But we do benefit if we serve Him in worship, that is acknowledging what we are with respect to him by our own will.Salaam
Peace All
There is no god but god or La ilaha illAllah which the poster I was responding to in regard to, Allah does not belong in the class of ilaha to which I am inclined to agree with. My own understanding of this testimony, statement or declaration or whatever one might choose to call it, this has to be undertaken with sound background knowledge as per 17/36. The Poster I was responding to also cited AQ 3/2 and 2/255 which most of us forum regulars know that these verses started with..." Allahu La Ilaha illa huwa" which translate as " Allah No god except him". To my understanding, (him) here is not a god but above all things that human worship as the god or gods.
I can confidently say that god or gods are creation of human out of their own images and conjectures, you need only to re-read the story of Nabi ibrahim in his search for his true lord and creator and sustainer to know this. If that is not sufficient then just read basic theology and philosophy books especially the ones that deal with astro-theology . The same goes for religions, each and everyone of existing religion is man-made. Contrast that with Allah who is the creator of everything, the universe and all it contains and sustain them until the end of time.
Allah does not require worship or anything whatsoever from his creatures, when Allah says for us his human creatures 'serve me', it simply means for us his servants to live our lives in accordance with his guidance which contains recommendations and advice. That is to live in peace and harmony with our fellow human beings, other creatures and our environment and to not to cause damage or destruction to this earth of jin and mankind that we live in. And foremost of all, that we human must always treat each other with kindness, respect and love despite all our differences or ethnicity/languages, culture etc.
How many times have you and I and others in this forum seen and read that the root of Salat is Sad-Lam Waw ? The most common and main meaning given is " in a horse race the second and subsequent placed horses must follow the leading horse closely" ... do you not see the word commitment in that? Commitment to do what one may ask, none other than commitment to follow the guidance of Allah as set out in the Qur'an from the beginning of Surah Al Baqarah to the end. But there are detailed advice and recommedations from Allah in 6/151-153. this is some amongst many others for people who truly belief in Allah, Malaika, Messengers, Books of Guidance and The next life.
We should always remember that Allah does not have a religion or create religions for his human creatures nor does he prefer one religion over another. What is undeniably clear is that Allah has recommend a way of life that is ideal for all human if they only know, that way of life is none other than Deen Al Islam for everyone on this earth. Even so, Allah does not compel his human creatures to follow this way of life as most people know or should know in this forum.
I understand that all that is in the heavens and the earth all obey Allah willingly or unwillingly as per3/83. But we must also remember that we have a choice in most instances and situation whether to follow the guidance of Allah or not and each individual is responsible for his/her own choices.Having studied all the evidence at my disposal, I am convinced that the word Allah does not mean God to me as Allah is not like anything and does not need anything. So the repeated occurences of La ilaha illAllah means Allah is telling us that there is no god or Allah is not a god.
Peace
almarh0m
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I am afraid a lot of this kind of debates, many a time are revolvinb about words as if changing a word and we were changing something.
So we play with words, like God, or worship, or whatever as if we needed o change something.
The thing is that for people God is quite a perfect word for what they mean, and others may gind that tht word has a meaning which the fomer person does not give it, that when that persons ays God she is meaning what the other person is saying it is not God.
We end up fighting about what word should mean, and not what it means actually for people, which it is true for some people may mean a thing and for other people may mean something else, but that is aquestion about the capacity of persons, and no matter how much you change the words if they cannot conceive of this or that they will not conceive neither with this word nor with any other word.
This is like the quest to make all muslims say Allah and not God, but the thing is that that will not change a thing int he minds and hearts of the people. Allah or God is the same, and for Arab christians they use Allh, they do not have another word for God.
Again, it is nothign but playign around with owrds. If that helps us to refine our understanding, that is fine, but otherwise it is just moving posts.
And the same hting with worship and serve, some reject worship, but worship does give them a meaningful meaning, so why condemn worship. Or are they confusing it with rituals?
Salaam
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1 DUA = pray
2 tasbee = glorification
3 sala = commitment
4 ibada= worshippingrandom person think ibada consist of all these 3 things atleast thats what i underdtand when they talk about ibadat.
word God also got meanings and forms like Godess female god.
bundle of thanks to newly evolved sustem atleast they understand God is niether male nor female , but Allah also directed as masculine proper noun as per scholars.Still a male lol
i dunno whats going on what i know religion is the most successful business untill fools present in planet earth they will gona buy it. sometimes for business sonetimes for taking big actions like invasion lol .
the only successful business going on from more than 5000 yrs.
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Peace All.
We may be talking about Allah -Ever living Sustainer of all- ,but "Ibada" for Allah is also relevant here.
There is no doubt that GOD does not require anything from us ,in fact GOD is independent from everything He(No gender brother Imran)created.
What is "Ibada"? Why does GOD instruct in Qoran;
Wa Ma Khalaktu Al Jinn Wa Al Ins Illa Liyabuduni!? The reason behind creating the Jinns and Ins is only for "YAbuduni"
Does this mean worship?
Let us look at it from Qoran point of view
1- Wa Ani Ubuduni. Hada Siratun Mustaqueem- And "Ubudini, this is the straight path.
So if "Ubudu" Allah is the straight path, what is the straight path?
Again Qoran defines the straight path here
2-6151
Say, "Come let me tell you what your Lord has really prohibited for you You shall not set up idols besides Him. You shall honor your parents. You shall not kill your children from fear of poverty - we provide for you and for them. You shall not commit gross sins, obvious or hidden. You shall not kill - God has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. These are His commandments to you, that you may understand."6152
You shall not touch the orphans' money except in the most righteous manner, until they reach maturity. You shall give full weight and full measure when you trade, equitably. We do not burden any soul beyond its means. You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives. You shall fulfill your covenant with God. These are His commandments to you, that you may take heed.6153
This is My path - a straight one. You shall follow it, and do not follow any other paths, lest they divert you from His path. These are His commandments to you, that you may be saved.So Ibada is following the straight path which are the commandments above?
Where does anything here means worship? Is GOD asking us to do anything for Him?Actually right at the beginning of Qoran, those who believe and want to straighten themselves are asking two things here
3-Iyaka Nabudu Wa Iyaka Nastaeen- You Alone we "Nabudu" and from you Alone we seek help.In conclusion
Ibada is following GOD s path-Sirat Al Mustaqueem-
Nastaeen-seeking help from GOD are the other things like Salat,Sawum, Charity, Sabr...i.e good morals like here
Wa Istaeenu Bi Alsabri Wa Salat...Seek help with Salat ,patience?For me "Worshipping GOD" is straighten yourself by following GOD -sirat Al Mustaqueem -to live life a good human to yourself and others to earn your salvation. i.e Follow GOD s example set out for you in His message."_Ittabiu Ahsana Ma Unzila Ilaykum Min Rabbikum" FOLLOW THE BEST PATH INDICATED FOR YOU FROM YOUR LORD IN QORAN- SIRAT AL MUSTAQUEEM.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
In conclusion
Ibada is following GOD s path-Sirat Al Mustaqueem-Salaam Brother GL
Your above conclusion is what I have understood from The Quran.
Nastaeen-seeking help from GOD are the other things like Salat,Sawum, Charity, Sabr...i.e good morals like here
Wa Istaeenu Bi Alsabri Wa Salat...Seek help with Salat ,patience?Root and have different meanings in 244-45 for me as I see here a link between following Al-Kitab and seeking help with Al-Salat and Al-Sabar.
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So you command people with "birr" and forget yourself and you recite the book, Do you not use aql? And seek help with Allah's Guidance and steadfastness ........God bless you
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In plain words..none..I am not aware of any root that means worship in Quran.
So, then, what is your definition of worship?
I think that here we are back to square one where simply some people hate the word worship and do not want to see it anywhere whatever it may mean because it is too much tainted.
Never mind, I have nothing against the word worship nor its Arabic equivalent (s). So to each her or his own words.
Salaam
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Peace
You are not suggesting that Allah is a proper name are you? Definitely Allah, Rabb is not the same as god. Anyone could create god or gods as well as religions, but no one can create "The Creator".
Peace
No I think Allah is God, I do not see many proper names in the Qur'an and too many words wich have their meaning are turned into proper names.
What I was saying, may be I understood you wrong, is that Allah and God or whatver word in other languages has the same use, mean God, and that that God, is not a matter of the word used for it but rather of the capacity of each person to conceive of God, which is always unexplainable because God is inconceivable.
Salaam
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So, then, what is your definition of worship?
I think that here we are back to square one where simply some people hate the word worship and do not want to see it anywhere whatever it may mean because it is too much tainted.
Never mind, I have nothing against the word worship nor its Arabic equivalent (s). So to each her or his own words.
Salaam
My definition is not under consideration. When I reject hadith and accept The Quran as the only guidance then I must take all understanding from it. As already said I do not find a root in The Quran which means worship. I am willing to change my understanding if you could show me one sister.
Salaam
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Salamun Alaikum
The problem here seems to be that far too many people think that the words worship/serve are interchangable, when in fact they are not. Let's say that everyone in this forum works or used to work for a living, when one goes to work for one's company be it private business or government offices, we say we go in to serve but not to worship the boss or superior. As for the names of Allah the creator and sustainer of the universe, I do not think he has a proper name, if the creator has a proper name then he is not the creator. No one is playing with words here but just stating the literal translation of La ilaha illallah.
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My definition is not under consideration. When I reject hadith and accept The Quran as the only guidance then I must take all understanding from it. As already said I do not find a root in The Quran which means worship. I am willing to change my understanding if you could show me one sister.
Salaam
Oh yes, it is. If you say that worship is not in the Qur'an of course you have some idea of what you consider worship, and finally you are giving your understanding of the Qur'an not God's or anybody else's Saying what you have said up till now and then keep your idea of worship for yourself is saying nothing, because I have given my understanding of worship also as far as I understand the Qur'an, do you disagree withg my understnding of worship?
Salaam
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instead of debating on translation of word.
we should debate on word ? ibada?same like once i bring the word ?Shirk? although both must have some root meanings why we forget human made grammer, synonyms, meanings, metaphor God dnt need a proper noun name. because name is something what somebody else given u. its not the fault of human why they think this way. obviously when there are missing pieces of puzzle on table human being must find those pieces by hook and crook. so thats y the terms what are related with GOD like ibada,shirk,sala,hajj,zaka,soum etc are all got issues when try to apply on any manmade tradition.
same happened with the arabs and everybody whenever they accept the new SYSTEM they try to run that system with same OLD method.
hint is the tradition of five time worshiping may b generated from zoroastrian. upon accepying the systen slowly slowly they understand from quran that five SALAT exist and people change their sala from helping orphan to phusically prostrate the unseen god.comin back to topic ?ibada?
worshiping = shirk ( y becoz u can only worship dieties who need worshipped)
GOD dnt require any service/worship.yeh we need it, we need it for WHAT ? why we need it? what we ll gona get doing it ?
1 SHIRK is plural of all bad deeds.
2 IBADA is plural of all good deeds.when one is performing one he/she is going against other one as per what i understand.
examples 1 person committed,rape,murder,torture,and theft in one night to a same person.HE committed four crimes but one Shirk . hez doing SHIRK
example 2 a person visit a TOWN of poor people give them food, hire people to build a shelter for them, assist them to modern technology, help them getting education ( writting/horseridding/swimming) etc. of someone try to opress the weak he is there to help him.he did lot of good things and all hos things consodered as ibadat. hez doing IBADA
example 3 a person started his travel from india to europe
he visits all temples give sacrifices.
he did all rituals including 7 times circulation around kaba, seven time circulation in yatra/pilgrimage in india. seven times circulation if he wish to marry in indian region. three times yes(qabool hai) in muslim tradition , five/3 times pray. going mandar 5/3 times for poja ,going church, performing rituals. in short he did all those things considered as COMMANDMENTS of human made GODs.All these are worship(english) translation. all these are shirks according to all those systems if one follow different system.
i have a weird idea REAL sala was something else example spending money in cause of allah. soon STINGY scholars find it difficult so they give sala a different shape, they submitt a fatwa who cannot perform sala he can perform DUA( pray) as alternate. then slowly slowly every concept of words what we know today take a new shape gor fitting old
tradition.God bless you all. try to b informative instead of debate enemies we are here for finding something.