Names of Allah - Al-Hay (the Ever-Living), Al-Qayoom (the Sustainer of All)
-
My definition is not under consideration. When I reject hadith and accept The Quran as the only guidance then I must take all understanding from it. As already said I do not find a root in The Quran which means worship. I am willing to change my understanding if you could show me one sister.
Salaam
Oh yes, it is. If you say that worship is not in the Qur'an of course you have some idea of what you consider worship, and finally you are giving your understanding of the Qur'an not God's or anybody else's Saying what you have said up till now and then keep your idea of worship for yourself is saying nothing, because I have given my understanding of worship also as far as I understand the Qur'an, do you disagree withg my understnding of worship?
Salaam
-
instead of debating on translation of word.
we should debate on word ? ibada?same like once i bring the word ?Shirk? although both must have some root meanings why we forget human made grammer, synonyms, meanings, metaphor God dnt need a proper noun name. because name is something what somebody else given u. its not the fault of human why they think this way. obviously when there are missing pieces of puzzle on table human being must find those pieces by hook and crook. so thats y the terms what are related with GOD like ibada,shirk,sala,hajj,zaka,soum etc are all got issues when try to apply on any manmade tradition.
same happened with the arabs and everybody whenever they accept the new SYSTEM they try to run that system with same OLD method.
hint is the tradition of five time worshiping may b generated from zoroastrian. upon accepying the systen slowly slowly they understand from quran that five SALAT exist and people change their sala from helping orphan to phusically prostrate the unseen god.comin back to topic ?ibada?
worshiping = shirk ( y becoz u can only worship dieties who need worshipped)
GOD dnt require any service/worship.yeh we need it, we need it for WHAT ? why we need it? what we ll gona get doing it ?
1 SHIRK is plural of all bad deeds.
2 IBADA is plural of all good deeds.when one is performing one he/she is going against other one as per what i understand.
examples 1 person committed,rape,murder,torture,and theft in one night to a same person.HE committed four crimes but one Shirk . hez doing SHIRK
example 2 a person visit a TOWN of poor people give them food, hire people to build a shelter for them, assist them to modern technology, help them getting education ( writting/horseridding/swimming) etc. of someone try to opress the weak he is there to help him.he did lot of good things and all hos things consodered as ibadat. hez doing IBADA
example 3 a person started his travel from india to europe
he visits all temples give sacrifices.
he did all rituals including 7 times circulation around kaba, seven time circulation in yatra/pilgrimage in india. seven times circulation if he wish to marry in indian region. three times yes(qabool hai) in muslim tradition , five/3 times pray. going mandar 5/3 times for poja ,going church, performing rituals. in short he did all those things considered as COMMANDMENTS of human made GODs.All these are worship(english) translation. all these are shirks according to all those systems if one follow different system.
i have a weird idea REAL sala was something else example spending money in cause of allah. soon STINGY scholars find it difficult so they give sala a different shape, they submitt a fatwa who cannot perform sala he can perform DUA( pray) as alternate. then slowly slowly every concept of words what we know today take a new shape gor fitting old
tradition.God bless you all. try to b informative instead of debate enemies we are here for finding something.
-
Oh yes, it is. If you say that worship is not in the Qur'an of course you have some idea of what you consider worship, and finally you are giving your understanding of the Qur'an not God's or anybody else's Saying what you have said up till now and then keep your idea of worship for yourself is saying nothing, because I have given my understanding of worship also as far as I understand the Qur'an, do you disagree withg my understnding of worship?
Salaam
Worship is some rituals performed in all man made religions including "Muslim" out of fear and to please a deity. These rituals may give some people psychological satisfaction like meditation does to some people.
It will be helpful to find out the meaning of ibadat in Quran by studying all nine occurrences of this word.
18110
Say I am only and only a man like you all, it is revealed to me that your ilah is only and only one ilah, So whoever hope for meeting his Rabb then let him do righteous(?) actions and do not do shirk with ibadat of your one Rabb.
The relation between one Rabb, ibadat and shirk can help us understand the issue if we focus on the root meanings of these terms ignoring the meanings adopted by so called religious authorities to control the masses.
Salaam
-
I made it very explicit, stated it that I did not consider worshipany ritual, but something out of conviction, from the heart, so again, each keeps to his or her own feelings about this or thatg and we cling to words, I do not say serve because of what I explained and somebody later also said, that at work for which we are paid we serve, but God is different.
So serving does not exhaust worship.
As to 3bd as regards with respect to God, for me it is plain that it is worship. God, is nto a beneficiary of anythign useful we may do. God is our absolute owner and creator, and also our greatest lover if we accept His Mercy.
Let us take dogs, they do worship us, but they do not do any rituals, they are straightforward in expressing their feelings.
I really do not fathom wherefrom anybody got this thing about rituals as synonym of worship.
Salaam
-
Peace All.
When we discuss "Ibada", Salat, Zakat, Sawum....are not part of it and should not come into it.
I have not seen a single verse that connects "Ibada" with Salat,Zakat,Sawum... Bring one if I am mistaken.Ibada is always to do with the "straight path," to do with our works/deeds. i.e i.e How we should live our life and deal with ourselves and our brothers and sisters, the humans,according to GOD s instructions/commands.
GOD Alone is the focal point , His commands are the guide of the straight path. To follow GOD s path is GOD s "Ibada"
To follow any other path,is to follow another authority. It is Shirk -You are doing "Ibada" to another god/system.
Now as far as Salat ,Zakat ,Sawum...They are the soul needs ,just like our body needs- Like food, drink,dance, entertainement,sport,amusement
GOD does not need anything from us. GOD is warning us in His message to look after our soul and nourish it, Why?
Because the soul needs to grow in readiness to meet the creator on that fatal day. The day our universe and earth are going to be annexed to GOD s kingdom like promised. The day GOD and His Angels are going to show here-Yawma Tashakkaku Al Sama Bi Alghamami Wa nuzzila Al Malaika Tanzeela- -Wa Jeea Rabbuka Wa Al Malaku Saffan Saffa-
Either our soul is heavy and ready to withstand GOD s presence- Janna- on that day, or is light-undernourished- and runs away from GOD s presence -Gehenna-
Wa Nafsin? Kad Aflaha Man Zakkaha( Either Grown it), Wa Kad Khaba Man Dassaha-( Or Starved it).
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
To follow any other path,is to follow another authority. It is Shirk -You are doing "Ibada" to another god/system.
Salaam GL
This is what I am trying to say. Shirk is following commands (ibada) of any authority other than God whether other humans or our own wishes. I could not find a word for worship in Quran.
Now as far as Salat ,Zakat ,Sawum...They are the soul needs ,just like our body needs- Like food, drink,dance, entertainement,sport,amusement
I believe we can give growth and nourishment to our nafs by helping others as per Quranic commands. The pleasure and peace we get by helping a needy give growth to our nufus.
Because the soul needs to grow in readiness to meet the creator on that fatal day. The day our universe and earth are going to be annexed to GOD s kingdom like promised. The day GOD and His Angels are going to show here-Yawma Tashakkaku Al Sama Bi Alghamami Wa nuzzila Al Malaika Tanzeela- -Wa Jeea Rabbuka Wa Al Malaku Saffan Saffa-
Either our soul is heavy and ready to withstand GOD s presence- Janna- on that day, or is light-undernourished- and runs away from GOD s presence -Gehenna-
Wa Nafsin? Kad Aflaha Man Zakkaha( Either Grown it), Wa Kad Khaba Man Dassaha-( Or Starved it).GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I made it very explicit, stated it that I did not consider worshipany ritual, but something out of conviction, from the heart, so again, each keeps to his or her own feelings about this or thatg and we cling to words, I do not say serve because of what I explained and somebody later also said, that at work for which we are paid we serve, but God is different.
So serving does not exhaust worship.
If you think worship is not a ritual then how to do it?
As to 3bd as regards with respect to God, for me it is plain that it is worship. God, is nto a beneficiary of anythign useful we may do. God is our absolute owner and creator, and also our greatest lover if we accept His Mercy.
3bd does not mean worship.
Salaam
-
I have said all I have to say about worship I asked you what you understand by worship, you answered something to the evffect tht it has nothing to do with the question, well it does have something to do with the question if YOU ask ME "how do" I "do it".
Obviously you have some idea of what you mean by worship, since you say that something in particular is not worship, so I asked you then what do you understand by worship, so I do not see what purpose can be served by continuing with this.
I am quite satisfied with my understanding of worship and 3bd
and you are satisfied with yours whatever it is. No problem.What really baffles me is your question "how do you do it".
According to you is it something that entails a "how"? Have I said something to that effect?
Salaam
-
I've always had trouble with the words worship and serve.
My journey to peace has always been selfish and self serving
because I desire a good life, and "obeying" Allah has given me
the good life and a way to peace.The word obedience is best for me until I learn otherwise.
Ayn-Ba-Dal
serve, worship, adore, venerate, accept the impression of a thing,
obey with submissiveness or humility,
approve, apply, devote, obedience,
slave, keep to inseparably, subdue, assemble together, enslave.Tay-Waw-Ayn
to obey, permit/consent, obedience, to do voluntarily, do an act with effort.
istaa'a - to be able, have power, be capable of.I "obey" my sustainer the best that I can.
peace
-
Salaam Sister huruf
For me a discussion is to learn not to win or lose.
Worship is a primitive and pagan concept to please a deity. It has a placebo effect for many and give them support when they are in trouble. A true believer who has conviction that obeying God by following Quran will protect him from troubles does not need any support system other than tawakkal in Allah.
It is strange to see that people claim they follow Quran only but still doing rituals in sunni way. They try to prove salat is ritual prayer by combining bit and pieces of Quranic verses to establish this ritual. They cannot find a single verse giving details of ritual prayer but still they want to do it sunni way.
Sister if you are satisfied with your understanding of worship then no need for a discussion unless you want to convince others in which case please give logical reasoning from Quran. People will change their understanding if they find it rational and reasonable and in conformity with Quran.
Once again please convince me by giving a root in Quran that means worship. Already said that in Quran root 3bd doen not mean worship unless one combines it with hadith and tafseer etc.
God bless you.
-
I've always had trouble with the words worship and serve.
My journey to peace has always been selfish and self serving
because I desire a good life, and "obeying" Allah has given me
the good life and a way to peace.The word obedience is best for me until I learn otherwise.
Thank brother that is what root 3bd means in Quran.
Salaam
-
Peace Novice.
You say here, quoteIt is strange to see that people claim they follow Quran only but still doing rituals in sunni way. They try to prove salat is ritual prayer by combining bit and pieces of Quranic verses to establish this ritual. They cannot find a single verse giving details of ritual prayer but still they want to do it sunni way.
I disagree with you strongly . I am willlling to discuss amicably this specific topic, but you need to open a new thread appropriate for it as it will be off topic here.That is if you wish.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam Sister huruf
For me a discussion is to learn not to win or lose.
Worship is a primitive and pagan concept to please a deity. It has a placebo effect for many and give them support when they are in trouble. A true believer who has conviction that obeying God by following Quran will protect him from troubles does not need any support system other than tawakkal in Allah.
It is strange to see that people claim they follow Quran only but still doing rituals in sunni way. They try to prove salat is ritual prayer by combining bit and pieces of Quranic verses to establish this ritual. They cannot find a single verse giving details of ritual prayer but still they want to do it sunni way.
Sister if you are satisfied with your understanding of worship then no need for a discussion unless you want to convince others in which case please give logical reasoning from Quran. People will change their understanding if they find it rational and reasonable and in conformity with Quran.
Once again please convince me by giving a root in Quran that means worship. Already said that in Quran root 3bd doen not mean worship unless one combines it with hadith and tafseer etc.
God bless you.
In previous posts I explained what my understanding of worship is, which obviously is not your understanding. And where did I make it a question of win or loose? My understanding of the word ias completely different from yours and I do not know of a synonyme for worship, so what is the use of further discussing, you about something is not the same as I am discussing. I never, never, never considered that worship is rituals nor to gods, the closest thing to it and used, at least by Spanish speaking people, figuratively, it is when one is deeply in love and unable even to breath without the loved one.
So to you it is about rituals to me is about mind and heart, the whole being at its sincerest. worship is a state of being,
Salaam
-
I disagree with you strongly . I am willlling to discuss amicably this specific topic, but you need to open a new thread appropriate for it as it will be off topic here.That is if you wish.
Salaam Brother GL
Here is the link to new thread.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610450.0#new
God bless you.
-
My understanding of the word ias completely different from yours and I do not know of a synonyme for worship, so what is the use of further discussing, you about something is not the same as I am discussing. I never, never, never considered that worship is rituals nor to gods, the closest thing to it and used, at least by Spanish speaking people, figuratively, it is when one is deeply in love and unable even to breath without the loved one.
Salaam sister huruf
I want to learn more about your understanding so if you wish we can continue in following new thread
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610450.0#new