Genetic evidence proves Muhammad and destroys alternative theories
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Lost
I'm specifically talking about Y-DNA, which is transmitted in a linear fashion from father to son (only men have a Y-chromosome, thus you inherited it directly from your father and so on). So having Abraham as your direct paternal ancestor is very different from having him somewhere in the endless branches forming your genealogical tree.
What is the difference between the two things you discribe here. An ancestor hast to be linear and direct, otherwise it is not ancestor at all. So what is that distinction you make?
Salaam
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Lost
What is the difference between the two things you discribe here. An ancestor hast to be linear and direct, otherwise it is not ancestor at all. So what is that distinction you make?Salaam
Salam,
Imagine your genealogical tree as an inverse triangle with you at the bottom, you have your 2 parents and each one of them has their two parents and so on. The sides of the triangle represent what we call the direct lines, one of the sides represent your direct paternal ancestors while the other one represents your direct maternal ancestors. To have Abraham as your direct paternal ancestor, he should be on the male side thus he should be the father of the father of the father of the fatherof your father. Just like surnames, this is how Y-DNA is transmitted, in a linear fashion, as it does not go through recombination like the remaining chromosomal DNA (the 22 autosomes and the X chromosome) due to the fact that only men possess the Y chromosome. The female direct line is represented by mtDNA, the DNA contained in mitochondria, which we inherit from our mother. These uniparental lines are called haplogroups. The markers I described in my last post are examples of Y-DNA haplogroups ie paternal lineages...
To have Abraham somewhere in your genealogical tree is thus very different from having his Y-DNA haplogroup.
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we all have one code logically. all humanity traced back to first human male female and i give that code name XXX . that triple x genes are present in all human beings if anyone dnt have that code its mean hez alien.
all animals plants have same history.
every code started from singularity.even the code of planetary system work same way.
SIDE NOTE
people who claims that they are desendents of ALI are most weird people i encounter in my life. characterstics of THOSE desendents.1 THEY believe they are from ALI ( without any evidence)
2 they believe they are CHOSEN people and have a upper hand on all socities.
3 THEY called themselves SYED never heard about sharif but hashmi and qureshi.
4 THEY never get married with a person who is not a desendent of ALI.(due to whixh most of the times man and women ended marriage-less) i know some of them personally.
5 THEY want you give pledge on their hand called ( acceptence of their highness) and followers must have to kiss the hand of chief man.
6 some of them select a line called ( DOCTOR) of witchhunting and black magic and when someone is controlled by a freak spirit these are the only freaks availaible in TOWN who can repair that PERSON usually girls lmao. sometimes these doctors turned in to rapists specially when girls cant give birth then these doctors said her to have a sex with pure bloodline of ALI so that u can get pregnet. cases are in the NEWS.
7 Weirdest EVER claim once i ask how i believe someone is not fake or he is definately from ali bloodline.
ANSWER given by SYED THE fire of hell and any fire is useless on the SKIN of all SYED. FIRE is haram on syed skin. so if somebody is faking it he must know this thing. lmao rotfl
after that i asked from him are you real SYED ?
he sid YES.i said i wana put fire on you to TEST you lmaoo police
i dun wana tell what happened after that in short they are chosen people same like Jews who claimed to b chosen by God of moses. -
Peace Imran.
If someone tells me they are the blood line of Ali, I say good for you.
Why should it bother me any further.
I mean in reality Whoever is what they are, should be in it for themselves.Also the reality is one is what they practice/do/?" Wa man Tazakka Fa Innama Yatazakka Linafsihi?"
Irrelevant what bloodline one is. One can be either good or bad, that is the real measure.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
we all have one code logically. all humanity traced back to first human male female and i give that code name XXX . that triple x genes are present in all human beings if anyone dnt have that code its mean hez alien.
all animals plants have same history.
every code started from singularity.even the code of planetary system work same way.
SIDE NOTE
people who claims that they are desendents of ALI are most weird people i encounter in my life. characterstics of THOSE desendents.1 THEY believe they are from ALI ( without any evidence)
2 they believe they are CHOSEN people and have a upper hand on all socities.
3 THEY called themselves SYED never heard about sharif but hashmi and qureshi.
4 THEY never get married with a person who is not a desendent of ALI.(due to whixh most of the times man and women ended marriage-less) i know some of them personally.
5 THEY want you give pledge on their hand called ( acceptence of their highness) and followers must have to kiss the hand of chief man.
6 some of them select a line called ( DOCTOR) of witchhunting and black magic and when someone is controlled by a freak spirit these are the only freaks availaible in TOWN who can repair that PERSON usually girls lmao. sometimes these doctors turned in to rapists specially when girls cant give birth then these doctors said her to have a sex with pure bloodline of ALI so that u can get pregnet. cases are in the NEWS.
7 Weirdest EVER claim once i ask how i believe someone is not fake or he is definately from ali bloodline.
ANSWER given by SYED THE fire of hell and any fire is useless on the SKIN of all SYED. FIRE is haram on syed skin. so if somebody is faking it he must know this thing. lmao rotfl
after that i asked from him are you real SYED ?
he sid YES.i said i wana put fire on you to TEST you lmaoo police
i dun wana tell what happened after that in short they are chosen people same like Jews who claimed to b chosen by God of moses.Eventhough you say we all have one code, you should understand that throughout time the accumulative occurence of mutations allows us to distinguish between organisms. Every living organism ultimately comes from a single ancestor but with time and under the right conditions multiple ''random'' mutational routes led to the great diversity we observe today.
So of course being a descendant of Ali does not bestow you with any special ability or value, this is not what we should care about. What is relevant here is the fact that those descendants make it possible for us to identify the Y-DNA line of Muhammad and to then see whether the claim made by the Quran that Muhammad is the direct descendant of Abraham can hold up to scrutiny, thus proving or debunking not only the Quran but also the various alternative theories about Muhammad in the process.
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To answer your 2 questions, no we will never be able to extract DNA directly from any of the two given that we cannot retrieve their remains (well provided that the Medina grave isn't Muhammad's). However, that doesn't mean that we cannot solve the puzzle because luckily Muhammad lived quite recently and his cousin Ali is said to have direct male descendants. Of course, it is normal to doubt any such claim of being a direct descendant of Ali since many clans could use this to rise in power and status. Thus, it is very natural that many people uttering such claims are in fact descendants of any random man.
Why you or anyone will never able to extract DNA directly from Abraham and Muhammad remains?
Given they both have their (alleged) tomb?
That is the only way to be certain...It can potentially prove that that dude in the (alleged) Muhammad's tomb and that dude in the (alleged) Abraham's tomb is paternally related or not.
The Kublai Khan (Yuan Dynasty) genetic research was able to get a DNA extract from Yuan dynasty tomb.
But there was no tomb of Genghis Khan (Kublai's grandpa), thus the research cannot make any claim to Genghis..The research had similar background, where people in middle east often claimed lineage to Muhammad or Abraham to get a POLITICAL EDGE. The people in Central and North Asia often claimed lineage to Genghis Khan to get a political edge as well.
Yet the research shows that being a descendant of Kublai Khan (thus also Genghis Khan) is nothing special at all, as 120 million people living today are descendant of the khan.The social / cultural impact of the result is nowaday people in China doesn't see any specialty of being a descendant of the khan. Thus a claim of being the descendant of the Khan to get a political (or economical) edge is losing it's social / political effectiveness.
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Why you or anyone will never able to extract DNA directly from Abraham and Muhammad remains?
Given they both have their (alleged) tomb?
That is the only way to be certain...It can potentially prove that that dude in the (alleged) Muhammad's tomb and that dude in the (alleged) Abraham's tomb is paternally related or not.
The Kublai Khan (Yuan Dynasty) genetic research was able to get a DNA extract from Yuan dynasty tomb.
But there was no tomb of Genghis Khan (Kublai's grandpa), thus the research cannot make any claim to Genghis..The research had similar background, where people in middle east often claimed lineage to Muhammad or Abraham to get a POLITICAL EDGE. The people in Central and North Asia often claimed lineage to Genghis Khan to get a political edge as well.
Yet the research shows that being a descendant of Kublai Khan (thus also Genghis Khan) is nothing special at all, as 120 million people living today are descendant of the khan.The social / cultural impact of the result is nowaday people in China doesn't see any specialty of being a descendant of the khan. Thus a claim of being the descendant of the Khan to get a political (or economical) edge is losing it's social / political effectiveness.
Well like you said they allegedly have tombs. In the case of Muhammad it is highly plausible to be really his, but for Abraham it is highly unlikely, almost definitely that of a random man. In any case, the evidence I presented makes a strong case for the quranic narrative. Like I told you there is nothing special about having a man who lived some 3500 years ago somewhere in your genealogical tree, but it is another thing to have his Y chromosome, that is to be his direct descendant from father to son, to have his surname let's say. The genetic information and the quranic narrative go hand in hand as far as Abraham and Muhammad are concerned. The Quran says that Abraham had two sons, a fact that corresponds with the bottlenecked character of FGC8712 compared to his brother FGC1695 who expanded massively in Arabia.
As for the Khan, well I won't be surprised that Genghis would figure in the genealogical tree of a significant fraction of central and east asian people (although I don't know from where you got that number), just like I'm myself claiming that Abraham could be present in the genealogical tree of every middle-eastern and not only a fraction given that he lived well before 1200 AD. And just like with Abraham, having the Y chromosome of Genghis Khan is not the same as having him in some random place in your tree. In fact, if 120 million people descend from him, only a few millions are his direct father to son descendants and have his Y-DNA known as haplogroup C2-Y12782 !!! Plus keep in mind that Khan is known to have initiated what we call a founder effect (he had multiple male descendats), unlike Abraham with his 2 sons...
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we all have one code logically. all humanity traced back to first human male female and i give that code name XXX . that triple x genes are present in all human beings if anyone dnt have that code its mean hez alien.
all animals plants have same history.
every code started from singularity.even the code of planetary system work same way.
SIDE NOTE
people who claims that they are desendents of ALI are most weird people i encounter in my life. characterstics of THOSE desendents.1 THEY believe they are from ALI ( without any evidence)
2 they believe they are CHOSEN people and have a upper hand on all socities.
3 THEY called themselves SYED never heard about sharif but hashmi and qureshi.
4 THEY never get married with a person who is not a desendent of ALI.(due to whixh most of the times man and women ended marriage-less) i know some of them personally.
5 THEY want you give pledge on their hand called ( acceptence of their highness) and followers must have to kiss the hand of chief man.
6 some of them select a line called ( DOCTOR) of witchhunting and black magic and when someone is controlled by a freak spirit these are the only freaks availaible in TOWN who can repair that PERSON usually girls lmao. sometimes these doctors turned in to rapists specially when girls cant give birth then these doctors said her to have a sex with pure bloodline of ALI so that u can get pregnet. cases are in the NEWS.
7 Weirdest EVER claim once i ask how i believe someone is not fake or he is definately from ali bloodline.
ANSWER given by SYED THE fire of hell and any fire is useless on the SKIN of all SYED. FIRE is haram on syed skin. so if somebody is faking it he must know this thing. lmao rotfl
after that i asked from him are you real SYED ?
he sid YES.i said i wana put fire on you to TEST you lmaoo police
i dun wana tell what happened after that in short they are chosen people same like Jews who claimed to b chosen by God of moses.Salam brother Imran, you are very right.
The war in in Yemen is a good example the Houthis militia are massacring Yemenis because they belive its their God given right being the prophets descendants to rule others and they are the chosen people.
God bless you all
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Salam brother Imran, you are very right.
The war in in Yemen is a good example the Houthis militia are massacring Yemenis because they belive its their God given right being the prophets descendants to rule others and they are the chosen people.
God bless you all
wsalam brother centi,
CHOSEN people already have right to choose whatever they want.
THESE arabs were lucky at first they gather manpower by using the factor of force/politics/fear/greed/religion.
then they started invasion on their surroundings..
they were rich from the history of capturing other people property and land or impose taxes on them "whichever is higher" .all empires have similar histories.. including british empire..
but slowly slowly invasion,slavery,stealing considered wrong by majority of peacemakers in nations..
hence in 1951 slavery finsihed by internation act..now LOOK their luck they found oil.. need for everyone who need to use things based on energy...
thats why they feel we are CHOSEN people.. we have black GOLD and we already rob lot of yellow GOLD so lets play GOLD vs GOLD ..
lets introduce VISA system for all those who are not the residents of ARAB for pilgrimage..
the average hajj COST is roughly 7000 ? the amount what a average labour person can save in roughly 10 years..(in some cases not in whole life)
another thing is umra thats not seasonal like hajj its just to run the business for 24/7/365.because they are CHOSEN people.. they can choose whatever way of making themselves rich..
they are also very powerful they can kill anyone who go against them.. the recent kashogi murder case is one of the example of their royal highness..
even after knowing everything whoz behind the murder, authorities are unable to take any action. WHY ?
because they are chosen people...
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Well like you said they allegedly have tombs. In the case of Muhammad it is highly plausible to be really his, but for Abraham it is highly unlikely, almost definitely that of a random man. In any case, the evidence I presented makes a strong case for the quranic narrative. Like I told you there is nothing special about having a man who lived some 3500 years ago somewhere in your genealogical tree, but it is another thing to have his Y chromosome, that is to be his direct descendant from father to son, to have his surname let's say. The genetic information and the quranic narrative go hand in hand as far as Abraham and Muhammad are concerned. The Quran says that Abraham had two sons, a fact that corresponds with the bottlenecked character of FGC8712 compared to his brother FGC1695 who expanded massively in Arabia.
I'm sorry without DNA sample you cannot make any strong narratives.
You have no smoking gun evidence to say that FGC8712 also exist in Abraham or Muhammad (or any other subject which you want to claim)And having paternal relationship to Abraham (or Nimrod or Terah or whomever living during such period) is nothing special either...
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The war in in Yemen is a good example the Houthis militia are massacring Yemenis because they belive its their God given right being the prophets descendants to rule others and they are the chosen people.
Houthis massacring Yemenites? Really?
- Aren't Houthis are infact Yemenites themselves?
- You really don't know who are actually massacring the Yemenites ?
https//www.counterpunch.org/2018/11/27/the-war-in-yemen-is-not-a-war-it-is-a-massacre/
"For almost four years, Yemen, the Arab world?s poorest country, has been ravaged by a bloody conflict between Houthi rebels and supporters of Yemen?s internationally recognized government. In 2015, Saudi Arabia formed a coalition of Arab states to fight the Houthis, which included Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, and Senegal. These countries have either sent troops to fight on the ground in Yemen or have carried out air attacks.
The Yemen war, however, goes beyond a Saudi-Iranian geopolitical or Sunni-Shia conflict. The Houthis? demands have been primarily economic and political, trying to take the Yemenis out of a cycle of poverty. The brutal and indiscriminate attacks of the Saudi-led coalition have left a ravaged country, with millions of civilians fighting for survival." -
I'm sorry without DNA sample you cannot make any strong narratives.
You have no smoking gun evidence to say that FGC8712 also exist in Abraham or Muhammad (or any other subject which you want to claim)And having paternal relationship to Abraham (or Nimrod or Terah or whomever living during such period) is nothing special either...
It is more complicated than that and if I tell you those things it's because finding them surprised me a whole lot. I would like to explain it in more details but I fear it is not possible without proper schematisation...
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Houthis massacring Yemenites? Really?
- Aren't Houthis are infact Yemenites themselves?
- You really don't know who are actually massacring the Yemenites ?
https//www.counterpunch.org/2018/11/27/the-war-in-yemen-is-not-a-war-it-is-a-massacre/
"For almost four years, Yemen, the Arab world?s poorest country, has been ravaged by a bloody conflict between Houthi rebels and supporters of Yemen?s internationally recognized government. In 2015, Saudi Arabia formed a coalition of Arab states to fight the Houthis, which included Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Sudan, and Senegal. These countries have either sent troops to fight on the ground in Yemen or have carried out air attacks.
The Yemen war, however, goes beyond a Saudi-Iranian geopolitical or Sunni-Shia conflict. The Houthis? demands have been primarily economic and political, trying to take the Yemenis out of a cycle of poverty. The brutal and indiscriminate attacks of the Saudi-led coalition have left a ravaged country, with millions of civilians fighting for survival."You are the one who really don't know about what is going in yemen. You are taking news from journalist who are are using the Yemen to settle score with saudis. You know nothing of the war in yemen.
LOL. The #houthis demand was economical? Please Jafar stick to what you know best. You know nothing of the war about my country. Houthis are throwing flowers and cakes to Yemenis
https//youtu.be/1VrOORrIb9U
They even blow up mosques
https//www.sabanew.net/viewstory/40205
Yemenis being subjected to torture by houthis
https//www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/yemen-uae-prison-torture-houthi-detention-centres-middle-east-a8672101.html
Houthi militias shell residents in the city of Taiz which they have blockade it for more than 4 yrs
http//www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-07/17/c_137331025.htm
Houthis stole food 'from the mouths' of hungry Yemenis
https//www.nitty-grittynews.com/houthis-stole-food-from-the-mouths-of-hungry-yemenis-un/#
Amnesty decries Houthi prosecution of Bahais in Yemen.
http//www.davidanderson.ca/amnesty-decries-houthi-prosecution-of-bahais-in-yemen/
Houthis instill fear and intimidation on Yemenis
http//www.davidanderson.ca/amnesty-decries-houthi-prosecution-of-bahais-in-yemen/
I don't disagree that Saudi collation also kills Yemenis by carelessness bombings, but mostly is the Houthis attracting these air strikes for using human civilians and infrastructures
Houthis will be remembered as the most violent group Yemen has ever seenGod bless you.
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Wow. I am very intrigued by this discovery. I would love to read your publication as soon as it comes out. Will it be open source? I am a masters student in Bioinformatics (mostly to learn all of the programming aspects before moving on) and I did my undergraduate in genetics. I also worked for a professor who studied population genetics in fig wasps as an undergraduate student. So Everything you've said makes a lot of sense to me. we studied the divergence of the cytochrome oxidase gene in mitochondria to determine relatedness in different fig wasps populations. I'm assuming you probably used similar methods to determine the haplotype variability within the y chromosome. I would enjoy hearing more about it.
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Wow. I am very intrigued by this discovery. I would love to read your publication as soon as it comes out. Will it be open source? I am a masters student in Bioinformatics (mostly to learn all of the programming aspects before moving on) and I did my undergraduate in genetics. I also worked for a professor who studied population genetics in fig wasps as an undergraduate student. So Everything you've said makes a lot of sense to me. we studied the divergence of the cytochrome oxidase gene in mitochondria to determine relatedness in different fig wasps populations. I'm assuming you probably used similar methods to determine the haplotype variability within the y chromosome. I would enjoy hearing more about it.
Peace, I am happy that someone here can have the proper knowledge to understand just how big and meaningful this is.
Although I am no ''scientist'' in the formal sense of the term, I am qualified enough in haploid markers to be able to act as an authoritative source on the matter, actually even more so than the ''scientists'' themselves. Not trying to sound arrogant or anything, it's just that after so many years spent on this particular field on my own and looking through the endeavors of researchers, I can safely say that most of them are clueless when it comes to interpreting their own data, mainly because they are too linear in their thinking and while this may sound counterintuitive given that we're talking about haploid markers (which are transmitted in a linear fashion), you have to keep in mind that genetic markers are only that and thus cannot act independantly and discriminate between themselves, at the end of the day humans are social beings and when they move, these same genetic markers are in fact only a byproduct of this movement. My point is that we should treat even linear markers in groups and not as sentient-like entities. A common behavior observed in the popualtion genetics community is the idea that a particular haplogroup spoke this or that language, looked like this or that, or whatever. For example, it is not uncommon to hear things such as ''R1a brought indo-european languages to Europe''. The truth is that the bringers of indo-european belonged to R1a and other lines as well, and only happened to have been so almost haphazardly because of various founding events caused by population bottlenecking. To understand migrations, one has to look at the broadest possible picture, and this requires a very wide analytical approach, a thing that most researchers seem to lack, hence why it took them forever to figure out things that could have been easily spotted if everything was considered with due attention. The most flagrant example of this is the story of R1b, the main haplogroup in Western Europe bore by some 70% of the men on the atlantic fringe. In less than two decades, a countless number of theories have been proposed to explain it and it took scientists the arrival of ancient DNA (extracting DNA from ancient remains) to finally be able to really grasp this ''big mystery'', which in fact shouldn't have been a mystery if they had considered it with care in the first place, as it was in fact perfectly possible to deduce the truth concerning R1b almost as soon as it was discovered !!!
So what do I do then? I thoroughly analyse the data made readily available for anyone interested in an extensive way to draw logical conclusions about various traceable human migrations. Having a firm understanding of the interrelated dynamics of haploid markers is what enable me to make these discoveries, while most of the others are trapped in a never-ending rambling obscured by severe misunderstanding and delusional thinking often driven by specific agendas and confiramtion bias, much like what we see here in free-minds...
Feel free to PM me if you want me to elaborate on any given point.