Is the Qur'an that we have word by word which prophet Muhammad supervised
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its not word by word even an intelligent traditional muslim understand it if he research about the mauscripts.
u have apparent changes specially the vocal marks even change the pronounciation.
u have stages/evolution of quran and its understandings as well.the same thkng is happening with all scriptures
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I saw this clip
https//youtu.be/XvPMDyBlUPA
It implies the Qur'an that we have is not word by word exactly as that of Muhammad or like sanaa Manuscripts
Peace ? true chapter/verses made-man looking at old manuscripts.
It is obvious that palimpsest had scribal errors and missing words.
Radiocarbon dated time-frame from 578-669 CE (~95%) accuracy.
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_manuscripthttps//i.postimg.cc/QxTwHhfN/ch2v191-196.jpg
2196 thou shave ye of ruusakum/heads (prestige) yours
the shave verb obviously needs "a noun" same usage as in verse
4827 shaven ruusakum/heads (prestige) yours
The correction is confirmed looking at other old manuscripts
Berlin, Staatsbibliothek Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
85% of total text, carbon dated between 662-765 CE (95.4%)https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/196?handschrift=163
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/48/vers/27?handschrift=163
https//i.postimg.cc/9XqJB1ZJ/ch2v192-199.jpg
https//i.postimg.cc/8kHsxgR5/ch48v25-ch49v1.jpg
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Peace � true chapter/verses made-man looking at old manuscripts.
It is obvious that palimpsest had scribal errors and missing words.
Radiocarbon dated time-frame from 578-669 CE (~95%) accuracy.
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_manuscripthttps//i.postimg.cc/QxTwHhfN/ch2v191-196.jpg
2196 تحلقوا thou shave ye of روسكم ruusakum/heads (prestige) yours
the shave verb obviously needs "a noun" same usage as in verse
4827 محلقىن shaven روسكم ruusakum/heads (prestige) yours
The correction is confirmed looking at other old manuscripts
Berlin, Staatsbibliothek Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305)
85% of total text, carbon dated between 662-765 CE (95.4%)https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/196?handschrift=163
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/48/vers/27?handschrift=163
https//i.postimg.cc/9XqJB1ZJ/ch2v192-199.jpg
https//i.postimg.cc/8kHsxgR5/ch48v25-ch49v1.jpg
Ah brother Noon, i missed you! )
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@ brother noon can you plz look in to this thread and tell me whats the reason of changing in writing style nobody gave me answer yet.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610469.msg421033#msg421033
is it a human error or what ?
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Dear all...
As we all know we don't have the exact original of what was in the hands of Prophet Mohammed's hand on his last day. We definitely see various alterations at least by a letter in modern prints of Quran... For example when I was a kid, I had a QURAN which has 8 verses numbered in the first chapter by adding Ameen as the 8th One..
So... Claiming the same is quite obviously wrong... But why should such thing happen if God promised that He preserve quran in 159... What actually God preserved? Is it physical quran I mean the same print of original book or the meanings or protected by not allowing any addition or deletion ....
There should be some meaning to 159.. Right?.. In my opinion God preserved it without being able to alter and thus alterations will be exposed ..if so how? -
Dear all...
As we all know we don't have the exact original of what was in the hands of Prophet Mohammed's hand on his last day. We definitely see various alterations at least by a letter in modern prints of Quran... For example when I was a kid, I had a QURAN which has 8 verses numbered in the first chapter by adding Ameen as the 8th One..
So... Claiming the same is quite obviously wrong... But why should such thing happen if God promised that He preserve quran in 159... What actually God preserved? Is it physical quran I mean the same print of original book or the meanings or protected by not allowing any addition or deletion ....
There should be some meaning to 159.. Right?.. In my opinion God preserved it without being able to alter and thus alterations will be exposed ..if so how?jk this question is very easy to understand with lens of non quran beleiver?
its a logical fallacy two different things,quran/bible/veda said That god will preserve it vs God said that he will preserve it are clearly two different things if something written in bible non bible non-bible person will never buy that information same with quran.
on other words we see there is a hidden law going on. that law come and protect the land from different ages/epoch of time. even if some viruses like traditional islam and traditional christain start inavding raping killing people in the name of God they will be scratch out and they have to accept the original law.
look how natural law finish slavery, making racism a bad thing, they start giving respect to human emotions and after evolving the law again and again we are almost at civilised level of society. never any religious or scientific book comes in between LAW if they try to come in between they will have their consequences.
followers of quran are well aware about the bandits of arabs who bring that scripture on the face of earth they have nothing else to do apart from invasion other people properties and forcing on them the law of their own choice tax and bla bla.
nowa days a party from them is still doing it in the name of God the most arrogant and stupid people even at this age they think themselves the mujahid of 7th century.
may b in next 100 years education and verification of that education will b on height and all religions will get vanished from the face of earth only the face of natural/original God will left behind . and his laws but human being is always a faulty creation he will always ready to break the laws at his first chance watch it lol.
if hez all controlling then all this is happening as per his PLAN.
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dear Kawaja,
is the above answer is for this question of mine..?
There should be some meaning to 159.. Right?.. In my opinion God preserved it without being able to alter and thus alterations will be exposed ..if so how?Peace
Please see Qur'an 6/115 and 10/15 - 17. No one can change Allah's words not even his prophets/messengers. Do not confuse that Old Testament = Taurat and New Testament = Al Injil, they are not related at all, If you want to see the previous Kitabs, read the Qur'an. There is no changes in Allah's message and guidance to mankind. Bible is a compilation from numerous sources.
Peace
almarh0m
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Peace
Please see Qur'an 6/115 and 10/15 - 17. No one can change Allah's words not even his prophets/messengers. Do not confuse that Old Testament = Taurat and New Testament = Al Injil, they are not related at all, If you want to see the previous Kitabs, read the Qur'an. There is no changes in Allah's message and guidance to mankind. Bible is a compilation from numerous sources.
Hi
Peacealmarh0m
I agree totally with you, unless I won't believe in this book or spend lot of time in understanding it.... It has given me meaning of life n hope. And so far I have not found anything wrong in its meaning and In it's advices or whatever. It only augmented my belief though I read it naturally with the anticipation of flaws. But I couldn't. But human infusion are always around .... But that exposes
May God guide till our last breath -
In my opinion God preserved it without being able to alter and thus alterations will be exposed ..if so how?
your opinion and 8 more billion opinions exist at same time. thats y dun worry about your opinion.
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Peace
Please see Qur'an 6/115 and 10/15 - 17. No one can change Allah's words not even his prophets/messengers. Do not confuse that Old Testament = Taurat and New Testament = Al Injil, they are not related at all, If you want to see the previous Kitabs, read the Qur'an. There is no changes in Allah's message and guidance to mankind. Bible is a compilation from numerous sources.
Peace
almarh0m
they see it by different way.
atleast four different authors write books about ?jesus?
and all those people have eyewitness the jesus doing things hence the first versions of gospels were with in 60 years after christ death.now see the biography of muhammad.
the first official version of prophet biography released 150 years after his death roughly by the scholar whose original work was lost (ibne ishaq).
what they were waiting for 150 yrs to publish a biography this thing is not easy to digest?
the same quran is also their property they were the one who transmitted it chain by chain.the same people who bring hadith science.i just curious to know why there is not any recent biography by anyone muslim or non muslim sources ? all we have is news after 200 hundred years.
this (200) is lot of time specially for the figure like muhammad and book like quran and nation like muslims who start inavading areas in the name of God.we have histories with horrible pictures appear our heros rape,kill,steal people the way they wanted. they have domestics fights with eachother on thrones. etc
something is not matching up.
according to christains , muslims are stupid, beleiving in things generated by victors for their own benefit.
according to muslims, christians are stupid beliving jesus son of God.
according to athiest both are stupid beliving in fairy tales of old.the only attitude ?mine is best? is the worst attitude of any nation religion that ends with morals and lessons sometimes.
even its not a problem in accepting histories only if they fullfill criteria.
logically if quran was completed in 632.
the biography of ?muhammad? could be created untill 635. even 3 years are enough.but its not the case we are in a confusion about origins of quran tbh. -
Peace jkhan.
You probably know this?http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_4/preservation_of_the_quran_%28P1427%29.html
Discussed to death here.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
they see it by different way.
atleast four different authors write books about ?jesus?
and all those people have eyewitness the jesus doing things hence the first versions of gospels were with in 60 years after christ death.now see the biography of muhammad.
the first official version of prophet biography released 150 years after his death roughly by the scholar whose original work was lost (ibne ishaq).
what they were waiting for 150 yrs to publish a biography this thing is not easy to digest?
the same quran is also their property they were the one who transmitted it chain by chain.the same people who bring hadith science.i just curious to know why there is not any recent biography by anyone muslim or non muslim sources ? all we have is news after 200 hundred years.
this (200) is lot of time specially for the figure like muhammad and book like quran and nation like muslims who start inavading areas in the name of God.we have histories with horrible pictures appear our heros rape,kill,steal people the way they wanted. they have domestics fights with eachother on thrones. etc
something is not matching up.
according to christains , muslims are stupid, beleiving in things generated by victors for their own benefit.
according to muslims, christians are stupid beliving jesus son of God.
according to athiest both are stupid beliving in fairy tales of old.the only attitude ?mine is best? is the worst attitude of any nation religion that ends with morals and lessons sometimes.
even its not a problem in accepting histories only if they fullfill criteria.
logically if quran was completed in 632.
the biography of ?muhammad? could be created untill 635. even 3 years are enough.but its not the case we are in a confusion about origins of quran tbh.Making opinions is good thing and based on opinions truth or false will be unearthed.. Whatever you are doing here in this forum is merely your opinions and that?s what everyone is doing?Same in my case..
Without making opinion there cannot be a forum? But our main aim here If I am not mistaken to share everyone?s understanding and argue with whatever the understanding of each and everyone has when it comes to quran in it?s true meaning apart from other general topics. I opined it based on 159, so if you don?t like it, I can?t help and you can make your opinion as you made already..
Once we have studied the quran we make our own opinion though translations are available or the pure quran is there in Arabic.. but we still argue, discuss, accept and deny various topics of quran.. that?s all opinions not necessarily be accepted by all.. anyhow which messenger got the majority of his people with him?
Even in the court you have the plaintiff and defendant and for both argument is compulsory and we only ask questions and they answer and it?s a kind of opinion but those answers are crucial to come to conclusion ? Making opinions is a freedom of speech..
If anyone is already surrendered to One God belief and His book then it is much worthy hunting the exact meaning and exact truth in everything for that need well worked out opinions of each and every verse in order to deduce ?
For me billions of people?s opinion is irrelevant? otherwise I would have accepted what billions of peoples view of spinning earth? My aim is to end up in truth not in suggestion or mere opinion or baseless emotions but only truth..?
God guide us ? -
Peace jkhan.
You probably know this?http//www.quran-islam.org/articles/part_4/preservation_of_the_quran_%28P1427%29.html
Discussed to death here.
GOD bless you.
Peace.GL.. i have read this website completely long back ... very good site for certain extent and not agreed with everything... most of those based on Rashad... but definitely good site ... but most of my friends don't like the Mohamed he has a well preserved elite group and a forum but he has his own rule and you can't argue with what you feel right but what he feels otherwise you will be disconnected.. that's pretty dangerous..
but people may benefit from most of those what is written in articles ... after all take what is right..
Thank you for sharing it..
God bless with what is right before your life terminate... -
So... Claiming the same is quite obviously wrong... But why should such thing happen if God promised that He preserve quran in 159... What actually God preserved?
peace
l-dhik'ri/the reminder ? i.e. do good, don?t be criminal, etc., same message sent prior
1643 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing
381 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder
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peace
l-dhik'ri/the reminder ? i.e. do good, don?t be criminal, etc., same message sent prior
1643 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing
381 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder
God bless you brother noon. I could never recall 381 in discussion regarding protection of al-zikar. Thank you.
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nice example brother noon really make sense.
i tried to tell it by other way lol.its obvious u can easily understand when somebody try to use QURAN in place of ZIKAR and then interpret it with that concept make them confuse in end.
advise for them ? they should take more time for understanding? and probabaly they dnt know how to cross check etc.
human learn things step by step perhaps by this way , they can able to verify things instead of exposing themslelves about their weak knowledge. lol
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peace
l-dhik'ri/the reminder ? i.e. do good, don?t be criminal, etc., same message sent prior
1643 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing
381 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder
What is your by those 3 verses? I don't get what you pass ...is it that you want to say zikr is only reminder and not Quran.? Pls explain but in detail....
156 And they say "O you (Muhammad SAW ) to whom the Dhikr (the Quran) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man"
What is actually delivered to that so called mad man? Is it zikr or Quran? Or both same... So God preserved zikr and not Quran?... Honestly I don't get you even to my friends to whome I showed your thread not get.. Coz only Arabic and translation but no explanation...
Is that the answer to 159? Again I am asking from you what I asked from kawija... Clear the doubt that's worthy. -
Salam/Peace everyone.
Best to show these verses
8521 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'ânun majîdun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.8522 فى لوح محفوظ
Fî lawHin maHfûZin
In a tablet, preserved.159 انا نحن نزلنا الذكر وانا له لحافظون
Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona
Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.5675 فلا اقسم بمواقع النجوم
Fala oqsimu bimawaqiAAi alnnujoomi
I do swear by the positions of the stars.5676 وانه لقسم لو تعلمون عظيم
Wa-innahu laqasamun law taAAlamoona AAatheemun
This is an oath, if only you knew, that is great.5677 انه لقرءان كريم
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun
It is an honorable Qur'an.5678 فى كتاب مكنون
Fee kitabin maknoonin
In a protected Book.5679 لا يمسه الا المطهرون
La yamassuhu illa almutahharoona
None can grasp it except those purified.5680 تنزيل من رب العالمين
Tanzeelun min rabbi alAAalameena
A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.5681 افبهاذا الحديث انتم مدهنون
Afabihatha alhadeethi antummudhinoona
Are you disregarding this hadith?5682 وتجعلون رزقكم انكم تكذبون
WatajAAaloona rizqakum annakum tukaththiboona
And you have your provisions, yet you are denying? -
sardar whats wrong with your preserved arabic of quran ? it look strange to me probabaly ancient egyptian ? lol
actually people assume by this verse author want to tell, original copy written by prophet will get preserved untill the end of times.
btw we do have quran and gospels and geeta and lot more religious texts in preserved tablets some of them even have a history before quran like VEDA. appears God loves to all nations and he saved all those works done by the legends of times.
now the quran is universal according to muslims so one can interpret in universal way.
indeed we send ALL reminders and surely we will preserve ALL reminders. ALL those reminders what are from God because if God want to preserve whatever he want, then nobody can stop him doing it. and thats what he did.
i wish people try to come out of ?we are best? and ?we are chosen? thats the start of proud and arrogance what lead us to darkness most of te times
