Is the Qur'an that we have word by word which prophet Muhammad supervised
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So... Claiming the same is quite obviously wrong... But why should such thing happen if God promised that He preserve quran in 159... What actually God preserved?
peace
l-dhik'ri/the reminder ? i.e. do good, don?t be criminal, etc., same message sent prior
1643 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing
381 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder
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peace
l-dhik'ri/the reminder ? i.e. do good, don?t be criminal, etc., same message sent prior
1643 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing
381 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder
God bless you brother noon. I could never recall 381 in discussion regarding protection of al-zikar. Thank you.
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nice example brother noon really make sense.
i tried to tell it by other way lol.its obvious u can easily understand when somebody try to use QURAN in place of ZIKAR and then interpret it with that concept make them confuse in end.
advise for them ? they should take more time for understanding? and probabaly they dnt know how to cross check etc.
human learn things step by step perhaps by this way , they can able to verify things instead of exposing themslelves about their weak knowledge. lol
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peace
l-dhik'ri/the reminder ? i.e. do good, don?t be criminal, etc., same message sent prior
1643 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing
381 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder
What is your by those 3 verses? I don't get what you pass ...is it that you want to say zikr is only reminder and not Quran.? Pls explain but in detail....
156 And they say "O you (Muhammad SAW ) to whom the Dhikr (the Quran) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man"
What is actually delivered to that so called mad man? Is it zikr or Quran? Or both same... So God preserved zikr and not Quran?... Honestly I don't get you even to my friends to whome I showed your thread not get.. Coz only Arabic and translation but no explanation...
Is that the answer to 159? Again I am asking from you what I asked from kawija... Clear the doubt that's worthy. -
Salam/Peace everyone.
Best to show these verses
8521 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'ânun majîdun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.8522 فى لوح محفوظ
Fî lawHin maHfûZin
In a tablet, preserved.159 انا نحن نزلنا الذكر وانا له لحافظون
Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona
Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.5675 فلا اقسم بمواقع النجوم
Fala oqsimu bimawaqiAAi alnnujoomi
I do swear by the positions of the stars.5676 وانه لقسم لو تعلمون عظيم
Wa-innahu laqasamun law taAAlamoona AAatheemun
This is an oath, if only you knew, that is great.5677 انه لقرءان كريم
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun
It is an honorable Qur'an.5678 فى كتاب مكنون
Fee kitabin maknoonin
In a protected Book.5679 لا يمسه الا المطهرون
La yamassuhu illa almutahharoona
None can grasp it except those purified.5680 تنزيل من رب العالمين
Tanzeelun min rabbi alAAalameena
A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.5681 افبهاذا الحديث انتم مدهنون
Afabihatha alhadeethi antummudhinoona
Are you disregarding this hadith?5682 وتجعلون رزقكم انكم تكذبون
WatajAAaloona rizqakum annakum tukaththiboona
And you have your provisions, yet you are denying? -
sardar whats wrong with your preserved arabic of quran ? it look strange to me probabaly ancient egyptian ? lol
actually people assume by this verse author want to tell, original copy written by prophet will get preserved untill the end of times.
btw we do have quran and gospels and geeta and lot more religious texts in preserved tablets some of them even have a history before quran like VEDA. appears God loves to all nations and he saved all those works done by the legends of times.
now the quran is universal according to muslims so one can interpret in universal way.
indeed we send ALL reminders and surely we will preserve ALL reminders. ALL those reminders what are from God because if God want to preserve whatever he want, then nobody can stop him doing it. and thats what he did.
i wish people try to come out of ?we are best? and ?we are chosen? thats the start of proud and arrogance what lead us to darkness most of te times
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Salam/Peace everyone.
Best to show these verses
8521 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'ânun majîdun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.8522 فى لوح محفوظ
Fî lawHin maHfûZin
In a tablet, preserved.159 انا نحن نزلنا الذكر وانا له لحافظون
Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona
Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.5675 فلا اقسم بمواقع النجوم
Fala oqsimu bimawaqiAAi alnnujoomi
I do swear by the positions of the stars.5676 وانه لقسم لو تعلمون عظيم
Wa-innahu laqasamun law taAAlamoona AAatheemun
This is an oath, if only you knew, that is great.5677 انه لقرءان كريم
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun
It is an honorable Qur'an.5678 فى كتاب مكنون
Fee kitabin maknoonin
In a protected Book.5679 لا يمسه الا المطهرون
La yamassuhu illa almutahharoona
None can grasp it except those purified.5680 تنزيل من رب العالمين
Tanzeelun min rabbi alAAalameena
A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.5681 افبهاذا الحديث انتم مدهنون
Afabihatha alhadeethi antummudhinoona
Are you disregarding this hadith?5682 وتجعلون رزقكم انكم تكذبون
WatajAAaloona rizqakum annakum tukaththiboona
And you have your provisions, yet you are denying?Very Good set of verses brother...
But let's not complicate the question...
** So we have the corrupted quran or pure?
If it is the corrupted version, how God punish anyone on this earth for not being a believer, while He Himself failed to give us the right copy first is guidance. If the book itself corrupted then......
But I don't see any corruption in it..... Coz I am neutral. Any ready to throw away any falsehood.... Corruption cannot enter doesn't mean I can't change a letter and print it... That's nonsense... Entered corruption will be exposed... That's what i believe... There is meaning in the article what Dr khalifa wrote " tampering with quran" -
hmm interesting point to note here.
billions of christians from 70 ad till now will blame God for not giving them correct gospels?
billions of jews from 1000 BC. will blame as well
billions of sunni shia will blame as well.
billions of hindus will blame as well.it appears god is very weak all that time human defeat god by changing some words to others.
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Hmm hmm... Billions Chinese (front runner and most talked people) will blame that they don't even have a book... Yeah... Africans hmm European..... We don't see any reference if books for them... I wonder no one of those destroyed nation would blame God once resurrected that we didn't understand your messengers that's why we disbliever but You destroyed us... Nonsense... Guidance reach to whome it is required... If God willed He would have guided all... That's what God talks..
Any point to think based on topic is.... Corruptions possible... As it is mentioned in Quran that they sell the verses of God for petty price... So God's verses could be altered coz it is in humans hand and Human is given freedom... But did God preserve it.. Yes... He did... It is like password... You play around but you are not given authority to enter.. But to u bout many keys to try....
God guide us... Sometimes unnecessary arguments drag to ignorance... May God save me and believers.. -
sardar whats wrong with your preserved arabic of quran ? it look strange to me probabaly ancient egyptian ? lol
Could you show me a screenshot? I keep getting that question and i'm getting worried that my account must be affected badly.
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What is your by those 3 verses? I don't get what you pass ...is it that you want to say zikr is only reminder and not Quran.? Pls explain but in detail....
156 And they say "O you (Muhammad SAW ) to whom the Dhikr (the Quran) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man"
What is actually delivered to that so called mad man? Is it zikr or Quran? Or both same... So God preserved zikr and not Quran?... Honestly I don't get you even to my friends to whome I showed your thread not get.. Coz only Arabic and translation but no explanation...
Is that the answer to 159? Again I am asking from you what I asked from kawija... Clear the doubt that's worthy.nothing prevents anyone corrupting any "text" distorting meanings (adding nonexistent words).
instead of me spoon feeding you et al perhaps study all occurrences l-dhik'ra/the reminder
i.e. the main message of all prior messengers e.g. to do good, be kind, do not do evil deeds, etc.1643-44 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing with the evidence and the scriptures and descends we of to you l-dhik'ra/the reminder to thou make clear to the humankind what descend to them and perhaps they reflecting
who are these people that received the same message?
381-3 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder rather/nay the ones reject they of in self-glory and schism how many perish we of from before them from generation so call they of and no longer period escape
likewise study the phrase ...
1212 ... wa-inn/and indeed we lahu lafina/surely guarding/watchful being
1263 ... wa-inn/and indeed we lahu lafina/surely guarding/watchful being
159 .... wa-inn/and indeed we lahu lafina/surely guarding/watchful beingpeace!
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SLM Sardar
https//ibb.co/G7pTrJ3
https//i.ibb.co/gy9Vc7F/sardar.png
What the.... Wow. Um, i don't how to deal with that. What is up with these because in my view, the Arabic is there. I copied & pasted the Arabic text from Quranic.org without the vowels.
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Salam/Peace everyone.
Best to show these verses
8521 بل هو قرءان مجيد
Bal huwa qur'ânun majîdun
No,it is a glorious Qur'an.8522 فى لوح محفوظ
Fî lawHin maHfûZin
In a tablet, preserved.159 انا نحن نزلنا الذكر وانا له لحافظون
Inna nahnu nazzalna alththikrawa-inna lahu lahafithoona
Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.5675 فلا اقسم بمواقع النجوم
Fala oqsimu bimawaqiAAi alnnujoomi
I do swear by the positions of the stars.5676 وانه لقسم لو تعلمون عظيم
Wa-innahu laqasamun law taAAlamoona AAatheemun
This is an oath, if only you knew, that is great.5677 انه لقرءان كريم
Innahu laqur-anun kareemun
It is an honorable Qur'an.5678 فى كتاب مكنون
Fee kitabin maknoonin
In a protected Book.5679 لا يمسه الا المطهرون
La yamassuhu illa almutahharoona
None can grasp it except those purified.5680 تنزيل من رب العالمين
Tanzeelun min rabbi alAAalameena
A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.5681 افبهاذا الحديث انتم مدهنون
Afabihatha alhadeethi antummudhinoona
Are you disregarding this hadith?5682 وتجعلون رزقكم انكم تكذبون
WatajAAaloona rizqakum annakum tukaththiboona
And you have your provisions, yet you are denying?Beautiful and moving ayas.
They tell me that God takes care of Qur'an and does it in ways that we do not penetrate. In fact, as I have said at other times, the fact that there is only one Qur'an and not a multitude, like there are gospels, is proof of it being preserved, since people are not all powerful, even if they had wanted to keep it, as I am sure there have been people that have wanted to keep othr revelations untainted, if not God, they would not have succeeded, and we might have, may be a real Qur'an but in a sea of other pretended Qur'ans around.
Salaam
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who want to get educate about what book chinese have as a religious text ?
here is a start how to investigate what book they have?
https//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism
Graceful is universal God who saved all nations and their traditions.
grace to the God who is not racist.
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nothing prevents anyone corrupting any "text" distorting meanings (adding nonexistent words).
instead of me spoon feeding you et al perhaps study all occurrences l-dhik'ra/the reminder
i.e. the main message of all prior messengers e.g. to do good, be kind, do not do evil deeds, etc.1643-44 and not sent we of from before you except menfolk of we inspire to them so ask ye of individuals l-dhik'ri/the reminder if be you not thou knowing with the evidence and the scriptures and descends we of to you l-dhik'ra/the reminder to thou make clear to the humankind what descend to them and perhaps they reflecting
who are these people that received the same message?
381-3 saad wal-qur'ni/and the recitation owner l-dhik'ri/the reminder rather/nay the ones reject they of in self-glory and schism how many perish we of from before them from generation so call they of and no longer period escape
likewise study the phrase ...
1212 ... wa-inn/and indeed we lahu lafina/surely guarding/watchful being
1263 ... wa-inn/and indeed we lahu lafina/surely guarding/watchful being
159 .... wa-inn/and indeed we lahu lafina/surely guarding/watchful beingpeace!
Yeah.. part and parcel of argument is to have variation of opinions ? when it comes to quran and guidance argument should be positive and honest and truth and not mockery as well ? Coz we deal with the book of GOD?. Let that be in mind of everyone?.. Sometimes spoon feeding also worthy if the person who looks for guidance truly coz quran is an alien language for most..?
Okay let me come to the topic?As per Dikhr is reminder and I also agree and anticipate most of the people in this forum do so.. Yes the previous Messages to previous messengers were called dhikr as well coz it is a reminder, while reminding basic and core is same One God and No association with Him .. but in every Reminder additional instructions could have included otherwise no need of different reminders and copy and paste would do it..
But this Dhikr is also called quran, I wonder anyone can deny it if you have read quran.. So in this very book of God He says He sent the Dhikr and will preserve IT, then it cannot be another book, coz this is the last of those series of Dhikrs and the confirmation of all dhikrs came before IT (QURAN) and the prophets also sealed with this dhikr?If we consider that we have the preserved dhikr in the book form of Recital / Quran then then it is automatically can be considered all those previous dhikrs/reminders included here in quran as necessary guidance (54? Anyhow the preservation of previous book/s (dhikr) were entrusted to certain people of that particular society and God never gave a word of preservation of such Reminders/Dhikr in quran? but instead informed us that part of those reminders are being sold out or being corrupted intentionally to divert people from the right path? But we still are asked to believe the previous Reminders/Books as a one of those conditions of belief, but not were asked to go and search and read and accept it? that?s totally unnecessary?Believing what God actually sent and believing what is in the hands of Christians and Jews is totally different story.. But if the Jews and Christians approach what is in their hands as books and guidance with intention of salvation in believing one God, then who is better judge than God?
If the reminders of all books available currently is meant for guidance of entire human being then there will be huge contradiction in the concepts of followers of them compared with quran.. Coz as we are aware non of those books totally agree with quran and there are many a glaring contradictions in each book when compared to quran?that?s incontrovertible.. So if anyone look for all the reminders, the only option is to approach the last of those reminders which is quran?
So quran whatever the available names you can call it, it is preserved with password. Physically do with it anything burn it spoil it change it print it alter it, but it?s original version is guarded otherwise there is no point of believing in GOD?.If one says quran is corrupted then definitely he or she is wasting time in believing the corrupted book, but if one says quran is preserved then he or she has a meaning to continue..
Let's find the guidance...
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This article has been discussed a lot on this forum
http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/WhichQuran.pdfe.g.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610132.0To my knowledge little to no study has been done involving an internal Quran cross-reference to see if variations can be minimised/eliminated.
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So in this very book of God He says He sent the Dhikr and will preserve IT, then it cannot be another book.
And WHY is that?
And how you conclude that it MUST be a book?coz this is the last of those series of Dhikrs and the confirmation of all dhikrs came before IT (QURAN) and the prophets also sealed with this dhikr?
The LAST?
No more reminder? no more guidance?
Really???No more new knowledge? new revelation? new realizations?
No more advancement for human since 1400 years ago?Anyhow the preservation of previous book/s (dhikr) were entrusted to certain people of that particular society and God never gave a word of preservation of such Reminders/Dhikr in quran? but instead informed us that part of those reminders are being sold out or being corrupted intentionally to divert people from the right path? But we still are asked to believe the previous Reminders/Books as a one of those conditions of belief, but not were asked to go and search and read and accept it? that?s totally unnecessary?
How similar is your view to the Christians...
God sent the final book of testament in the new bundle called.... tadaaa... "New Testament".If the reminders of all books available currently is meant for guidance of entire human being then there will be huge contradiction in the concepts of followers of them compared with quran.. Coz as we are aware non of those books totally agree with quran and there are many a glaring contradictions in each book when compared to quran?that?s incontrovertible..
Even statements within each of those mentioned books can contradict each others..
Yup.. that includes within the book titled Quran as well...So if anyone look for all the reminders, the only option is to approach the last of those reminders which is quran?
Again how similar is such view with the Christians...
But anyway.. what other options that you have tried to conclude that it is the only option?
Let's find the guidance...
This one I agree... as God's guidance has NOT ended yet and will never ends..
And it's not only available through "a book".Ask questions (yes any question) and you shall receive the answer..
Although the Dogmatist will shunned you from asking too much questions and command you to just "Follow and Obey". -
who want to get educate about what book chinese have as a religious text ?
here is a start how to investigate what book they have?
https//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism
Graceful is universal God who saved all nations and their traditions.
grace to the God who is not racist.
I think it should be labeled more as "philosophical / thinking" text..
Religion means different thing on different culture..The mission of "Saving the entire world from Jahannam / Hell of an Angry God" does not exist at all within Chinese tradition. Or other far eastern traditions. That's why they rarely (almost never) try to proselytize other people into their religion and be saved from the wrath of angry God.
Nor makes any claim that they're the "Chosen People".Having said that Some Chinese dynasty did tried the above in order to ensure social support for the empire.
Creating a formalized state sponsored religion / ideology. But it always fails...Sinocentrism ideology that China is the cultural, political and/or economic center of the world
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinocentrism -
Peace..
Since you have raised loads of easy questions I have to answer some with QURAN and some with general knowledge since all questions not relevant with Quran...And WHY is that?
And how you conclude that it MUST be a book?
The LAST? quran taught me in verse 4141-42..thats why... If understood any other meaning to it then I can't helpNo more reminder? Yes No more... If the Dikhr means reminder and reminder means quran then no more book/s reminders no more guidance?Guodance always prevail... God guides whom He wills and He misguides whom He wills... Haven't you seen that verse repetitively In the book
Really??? Yes... Absolutely ... any doubt... peaceNo more new knowledge?Yes there is... Funny...thats why I am planning to enhance my professional knowledge as well so it would help me in my job... That's why I beg God please increase my knowledge... That's why God asked to ask at a dua to upgrade our knowledge... new revelation? utterly no chance... If we take meaning of revelation as revelation of books.. God may inspire individuals.. That's different revelation.. new realizations? For sure... That's what I keep cultivating that's why I am here in this forum and many others available centers to get realized..
No more advancement for human since 1400 years ago?Thats common senseHow similar is your view to the Christians...Your view point.. Even if looks similar.. Any issue...? God says those who are jews Christians or sabian if they believe in God perform good things then they are through.. So don't underestimate by saying it making differences with community... God knows who is guided...
God sent the final book of testament in the new bundle called.... tadaaa... "New Testament".Even statements within each of those mentioned books can contradict each others..
Yup.. that includes within the book titled Quran as well...Again how similar is such view with the Christians...hmm...when you say Amen in your posts I can see better similarities to Christians in you...
But anyway.. what other options that you have tried to conclude that it is the only option?whatever the available books of isrelete and Veda...
This one I agree..Thats good... But verify... I may be wrong.. . as God's guidance has NOT ended yet and will never ends..
And it's not only available through "a book".That I know perfectly.. If you read my threads in the topic "Mohamed is not our rasoo" You may find guidance is not only from Goda speech which is book but eith what God created as well etc..Ask questions (yes any question) and you shall receive the answer..
Although the Dogmatist will shunned you from asking too much questions and command you to just "Follow and Obey".whatever...thats my businessGOD GUIDE U...
