Pork is HALAL
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Do you see it?
So do you understand the word "flesh"?
Allah said "flesh" and looks like you assumed it to be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
Abdel Haleem ... pig's meat
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pignothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
Do you understand the word "flesh"?
...
nothing in verse 16115 says it is "meat"...
it only said "the flesh of the maggoty/stinking"
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swinemaggoty/stinking , and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
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Your reply
It is not conclusive because the rule of the grammar ignores "natural sign", logic, cause and effect, consistency, fallacies etc andA much better response would have been to show several examples in Quran where the grammar follows your take. There are literally thousands of examples of this usage in Quran. It should be easy for you to find several if you speak the truth.
When people go to Court, they can find court's interpreter.
Don't get mistaken, even if he may read the judgment to you.
The court's interpreter is not a Judge.
He cannot deliver justice.
He knows nothing about Truth.
He knows nothing about Jurisprudence.
He knows nothing about Philosophy.
He knows nothing about Scientific Facts.
He knows nothing about so many aspects of Life (Islam).The court's interpreters have no real significance to the trial.
He is a court's interpreter and sitting near to the clerk and
.. wishing that, he, someday can be a Judge.
.. thinking justice is about translation/grammar.
.. believing justice (Islam) is about "interpretation/grammar" alone
.. wasting and busying all his precious life doing nothing but language interpretation/grammar alone.Justice requires more than this.
example..
Now, which is the Quran?
No one disputes Allah´s Signs except those who are kafir. (404)
Our signs in the universe and in their own selves (4153)
So We sent them the flood, and the locust, and the lice, and the frogs, and the blood; all detailed signs; but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people. (7133)
I swear by your LordLaw that they ("Court's Interpreters" / People of the Book/Grammar) will not be considered "Muslims" until they make you (Natural Person/People of Ibrahim) their JUDGE in the disputes and then they will find nothing in their souls to prevent them from accepting your judgment, and they submit with full submission. (465)
We hear Natural Person/People of Ibrahim/Rasul
We obey Natural Person/People of Ibrahim/Rasul -
it makes sense to you to call Flesh of Khinzeer = Rotten Meat� You are absolutely not applied your common sense�.Now don�t tell me that this is not applicable for khinzeer..
you're so confused.. who say it's not?
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
nothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
Do you understand the word "flesh"?
...
nothing in verse 16115 says it is "meat"...
it only said "the flesh of the maggoty/stinking"
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swine"SEEN/CONSIDERED" / maggoty/stinking , and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
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Peace Mahdi.
I am afraid brother, by insisting " Lahm" is flesh including "Shahm" you are not paying attention to the words in Arabic.
You made a misjudgement when you changed your "maggoty stinking meat" to "maggoty stinking flesh" because you were stuck.There is no need to carry on pushing what is clearly now wrong. People still will have respect if one makes a mistake and corrects.
But it is up to you. You are on your own claiming this now.
On your other threads you called others "DOGMATIC" when they insisted on their way without evidence.
People can see that the argument of "rotten flesh" has itself become rotten and gone. completely.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I am afraid brother, by insisting " Lahm" is flesh
so you insist it should mean "MEAT ALONE"?
nothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE
(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...
it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to
(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnutFLESH-meat
(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)
inconsistently...
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
Meat ALONE...
So what is my problem? What is there to correct? !
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31218584_2090517307831516_4558380402319206920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=6f41b12b91c8d227bf4707416b1b42e5&oe=5CBC7556
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not even once it is said as "MEAT ALONE", or EVEN MEAT ...
you made it on your own and change Allah's words so that you can make pork haram ..
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animals, and blood, and flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah. So whoever (is) forced by necessity without (being) disobedient and not transgressor, then no sin on him. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (2173)
Are made unlawful on you the dead animals, and the blood, and flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah, , and that which is strangled (t and that which is hit fatally, and that which has a fatal fal and that which is gored by hor and that which ate (it) the wild animal except what you slaughtered, and what is sacrificed on the stone altars, and that you seek division by divining arrows - that (is) grave disobedience. This day (have) despaired those who disbelieved of your religion, so (do) not fear them, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and I have completed upon you My Favor and I have approved for you Islam (as) a religion. But whoever (is) forced by hunger (and) not inclining to sin, then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (53)
Say, "I (do) not find in what has been revealed to me (anything) forbidden to an eater who eats it except that it be dead or blood poured forth or (the) flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ) - for indeed, it (is) filth - or (it be) disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever (is) compelled not desiring and not transgressing, then indeed, your Lord (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (6145)
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (16115)
there, all the verses claimed to be about eating "PORK" in the Quran
accordingly, pork is not forbidden in the Quran...
not even once Allah make pork haram ...
it is you who make pork haram
Do not say about what your lying tongues describe ´This is halal and this is haram,´ inventing lies against Allah. (16116)
The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (PORK) is halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and pork), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)
It is shirk to make haram the flesh of swine
Say ´Produce your hadither / jurists/ witnesses to testify that Allah made this (pork) haram.´ If they do testify, DO NOT I'TIQAD WITH THEM and DO NOT FOLLOW the whims and desires of people who deny Our SIGNS, and who do not have iman in the Next World and MAKE OTHERS EQUAL TO THEIR LORD (SHIRK). (6150)
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Already covered
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599591.msg234462#msg234462The basic conclusion was IF you ignore the form the word is in and Quranic grammar, then yes, you can interpret it the way you imply.
Quote from tanveermd
According to qur'aanic grammar, in the phrases "lahma khinzeerin" or "lahma alkhinzeeri", "khinzeer" CANNOT be an adjective but can only be a noun. This has been discussed numerous times on this forum in the past. Please use the search feature for the relevant threads.A short explanation is as follows
For "khinzeer" to be an adjective the phrase has to have "AL" before both words or if "AL" is not before both words then both words have to have the same ending of "an" or "un".
For example
"lahmun khinzeerun" or "al-lahma al-khinzeer".
The phrases in al-qur'aan are as follows
"lahma khinzeerin" (6145), and "lahma/lahmu alkhinzeeri" (2173, 53, 16115).
Thus "khinzeer" in those phrases CANNOT be an adjective, and can only mean "pig".
Readers should note that despite thousands of similar usage in Quran, when asked Mahdi failed to bring any examples that follow his made-up grammar rules.
By the way, it's fine to be a maverick when it comes to grammar but it has to have evidence as per Quran.
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@ mahdi why not you telling the ARABIC of PIG ?
there must be arabic word used for that Animal ? -
The phrases in al-qur'aan are as follows
"lahma khinzeerin" (6145), and "lahma/lahmu alkhinzeeri" (2173, 53, 16115).
read above for verse 6145 2173, 53, and 16115
and please also take note...
there is no dot, diacritical mark etc in the original Quran.
and it is not even in Ajami Arabic.
but it has to have evidence as per Quran.
except Allah defined to have iman in the Quran as follows
But as for those who have clear evidence from their Lord followed up by a witness from Him — and before it the Ordain of Musa came as a model and a mercy — such people have iman in it . Any faction which rejects it is promised the Fire. Be in no doubt about it. It is the Truth from your Lord. But most people have no iman. (1117)
evidence as per Quran means
- Sunnatullah (MATH, Law of Nature)
- Revelation (E, Epistemology, Natural Person)
- Enlightenment (ISM, Axiology, Natural Law)
and ..
example..
Now, which is the Quran?
No one disputes Allah´s Signs except those who are kafir. (404)
Our signs in the universe and in their own selves (4153)
So We sent them the flood, and the locust, and the lice, and the frogs, and the blood; all detailed signs; but they turned arrogant, they were a criminal people. (7133)
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@ mahdi why not you telling the ARABIC of PIG ?
there must be arabic word used for that Animal ?So your argument Allah needs to mention all animals' names in the Quran?
That is your merit?
Irrelevant.
your arabic word for pig have 4 + 1 root words, and one is missing.
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there is no dot, diacritical mark etc in the original Quran.
and it is not even in Ajami Arabic.
No dots does not mean there can be no alif lam for "al" ! Your responses are quite poor.
So your argument Allah needs to mention all animals' names in the Quran?
No, he asked what is Arabic for pig, not what word does Quran use for pig. Note the difference.
Please read carefully, otherwise you are just embarrassing yourself.
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Please read carefully, otherwise you are just embarrassing yourself.
Learn about "RELEVANCY OF EVIDENCE" + "ADMISSIBILITY OF EVIDENCE" ...
nothing to be embarrassed.
http//3.bp.blogspot.com/-LvYSJ5nxAKI/UKReGB0uE5I/AAAAAAAAAHA/7TcX20k01J8/s1600/Relevant-Admissible+Equation.png
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SLM to all,
how about human flesh is this also haram or prohibit ???
or dog-meat
or snail ?
or insects like grasshopper ??Kaltan...
Very strange question.... Either you are confused or not getting what the members have explained here or Mahdi has done some black magic to you.
Okay cool down... Question us to whome Allah address this book to human and jinn.... Can the same God ask or order to have the flesh of fellow human....
Yes of course human is not included in the four category... Does it mean we can eat human flesh... No way.. That's why Quran should be explored to get the meaning.... Even directly said laws should be scrutinized to apply...
For example
4912 " O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful"
Here laham is meat... Can you eat even the dead... No way God says... So how you would kill and eat... Or killing us allowed.. No... So pls use god gifted knowledge...
BTW other two categories are allowed in your questions..
God guide you... And us... -
Mahdi has done some black magic to you.
no need to slander and argue like a man (vs. pussy) .. slander is the tool for the LOSER.
https//i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/74/14/b5741405c9a6f59b482a30a1f6d36a6d.jpg
When you brought them the Clear Signs/ARGUMENTS and those of them who were kafir said, "This is nothing but downright magic" (5110)
Here is the ISSUE
Where did Allah said "MEAT ALONE", or EVEN MEAT in 6145 2173, 53, and 16115?
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
The flesh of meat
The flesh of date (fruit)
The flesh of walnut (fruit) -
Kaltan...
Very strange question.... Either you are confused or not getting what the members have explained here or Mahdi has done some black magic to you.
Okay cool down... Question us to whome Allah address this book to human and jinn.... Can the same God ask or order to have the flesh of fellow human....
Yes of course human is not included in the four category... Does it mean we can eat human flesh... No way.. That's why Quran should be explored to get the meaning.... Even directly said laws should be scrutinized to apply...
For example
4912 " O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful"
Here laham is meat... Can you eat even the dead... No way God says... So how you would kill and eat... Or killing us allowed.. No... So pls use god gifted knowledge...
BTW other two categories are allowed in your questions..
God guide you... And us...SLM jkhan,
first weird that my post is adjust by ???....
but indeed i am very confused now with what mahdi presented... i dont know arabic language, but i can recognize words and grammars....
about cannibalism , 4912 gives perfect answer to it ...thx for this ...so human fles is haram/ prohibit .....
but if i check the words what presented ..... what struck me is the words are different ....
and
are not same ... or are they ???
can arabic reader confirm this ???
@jkhan dont get me wrong , but why is this alowed ?? so your saying and is the same ?what i known about the Quran is that Allah did pick / use his words carefully ....
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So your argument Allah needs to mention all animals' names in the Quran?
That is your merit?
Irrelevant.
not any argument/merit at all.
if an animal/thing exist LANGUAGE must have some word sometimes more than one word to describe that animal/thing.
asking again what is the arabic word for animal PIG ?
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الْخَنَا زِ يرَ
and
الْخِنزِيرِThey know it is different in meaning and it can be proven for consistency
Dead animal is haram, make sense.
Blood is haram, make sense.
Maggoty/stinking flesh of meat/fruit is haram, make sense.But fresh pork is haram, doesn't make sense at all.
pork
https//renfroesmarket.com/media/catalog/product/f/o/four-boneless-pork-steak-112-p.jpg
beef
https//images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91UoofRIyEL.SX355.jpg
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31120748_2089978694552044_4593648560994537197_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=385df69ef9873df7da35a241a1fcc569&oe=5CBF71EE
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animals, and blood, and flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah. So whoever (is) forced by necessity without (being) disobedient and not transgressor, then no sin on him. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (2173)
Are made unlawful on you the dead animals, and the blood, and flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah, , and that which is strangled (t and that which is hit fatally, and that which has a fatal fal and that which is gored by hor and that which ate (it) the wild animal except what you slaughtered, and what is sacrificed on the stone altars, and that you seek division by divining arrows - that (is) grave disobedience. This day (have) despaired those who disbelieved of your religion, so (do) not fear them, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and I have completed upon you My Favor and I have approved for you Islam (as) a religion. But whoever (is) forced by hunger (and) not inclining to sin, then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (53)
Say, "I (do) not find in what has been revealed to me (anything) forbidden to an eater who eats it except that it be dead or blood poured forth or (the) flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ) - for indeed, it (is) filth - or (it be) disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever (is) compelled not desiring and not transgressing, then indeed, your Lord (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (6145)
Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (16115)
Here is the ISSUE
Where did Allah said "MEAT ALONE", or EVEN MEAT in 6145 2173, 53, and 16115?
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig
Do you hope, then, that they will believe you, seeing that a party of them would hear the Word of God and then distort it after they had understood it, knowingly? (275)
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Verse 53
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50943345_2278455669037678_5379525952185303040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=3c4dd3813048b4a095ccc4aff2bb2364&oe=5CBEED28
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51100877_2278455699037675_6572753770654990336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=3ef009ea1ed38c342b290eb87bc7f040&oe=5CB7664D
