Pork is HALAL

Mahdi_Ibrahim

The basic conclusion was IF you ignore the form the word is in and Quranic grammar, then yes, you can interpret it the way you imply.

but that's not the interpretation methodology from the Quran...

We (Way of Allah . Sunnatullah . Natural . Logical . Universal . Common Sense . Consistency) are responsible for its interpretation.(7519)

ELSE, shirk.

(the definition of having iman in the Quran)

But as for those who have clear evidence from their Lord (Sunnatullah . Law of Nature) followed up by a witness from Him (Revelation, Natural Person) — and before it the ordain of Musa came as a model and a mercy (Natural Law . Natural Values) — such people have iman in it (the Quran). Any faction which rejects it is promised the Fire. Be in no doubt about it. It is the Truth from your Lord. But most people have no iman. (1117)

Burden of Proof

Sunnatullah / Law of Nature
Revelation / Natural Person
Natural Law / Natural Life Values 7156-157

= Believe in the Quran

ie. Half Truth = Whole Lies.

On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (5030)

Whose word is truer than Allah's? (487)

bagyane

How could fresh meat is Haram?

What of the meat of animal mentioned 6/146 were they forbidden because they were not fresh?

Mahdi_Ibrahim

What of the meat of animal mentioned 6/146 were they forbidden because they were not fresh?

It says nothing about pork.

Wakas

all i am saying is , logical thinking there are strong arguments about the post of MI ... can he prove it to you ...NO.. neither before him could not prove it ... or did they ???

btw the quranicgrammar you mentioned , who brought this and how riable is this ???

When it comes to proving something, we have to look at the evidence for/against, then decide what to believe.

You ask who brought Quranic grammar? The answer is simple the author of Quran. The Quran itself in the way it uses its words, nouns/verbs/prepositions, word order etc etc.

You ask how reliable is this. Well in this case I asked MI for examples from Quran which support his view. He didn't come up with any despite having thousands to choose from.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

QXPvi (THE QUR&#039AN AS IT EXPLAINS ITSELF, 6th edition) February 2015
By Dr. Shabbir Ahmed, Florida

The First Dilemma The Persian ?Imams? received strong support from the Abbasid monarchs for political reasons. While the text of the Qur&#039an remained untouched, its words and terminology were, gradually, given alien, culturally and politically biased meanings to the extent that they lost the splendor and the magnificence so beautifully conveyed in the original, revealed Arabic ‘Mubeen&#039. Simply put, the Qur&#039anic terms were dressed up with the erroneous philosophies prevalent in the Zoroastrian culture of Persia, and they became widely accepted even among the Arabs! This staggering tragedy explains why, how and where, even the Arabic speaking people lose their touch with the Qur&#039an!

Now The Third Dilemma The later generations of translators and commentators have uncritically followed the men of old and this tendency has been consistently taking its noxious toll. They have been taking the Ajami Arabic as the proper language of the Qur&#039an. By Ajami Arabic I mean applying the Zoro-Persian or any alien concepts to the Arabic words and terms of the Qur&#039an.

http//drshabbir.com/library/qxp_vi_english.pdf

bagyane

It says nothing about pork.

If the issue is not about fresh meat, why you mentioned it?

Mahdi_Ibrahim

If the issue is not about fresh meat, why you mentioned it?

The FOOD (PORK) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (in pork as halal), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)

Rule of interpretation

Whatever Allah does not prohibit in this Quran, is HALAL.

Allah does not have to mention everything on Earth or in this UNIVERSE which is HALAL.

Simple rule.

Refer to verse 5101.

It is shirk to make haram the flesh of swine

Say ´Produce your hadither / jurists / witnesses to testify that Allah made this (pork) haram.´ If they do testify, DO NOT I'TIQAD WITH THEM and DO NOT FOLLOW the whims and desires of people who deny Our SIGNS, and who do not have iman in the Next World and MAKE OTHERS EQUAL TO THEIR LORD (SHIRK). (6150)

bagyane

The FOOD (PORK) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (in pork as halal), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)

The food of the people of the book is 2/168 minus 6/145-146

Mahdi_Ibrahim

according to you, but not according to

Sunnatullah (Law of Nature)
Revelation (Natural Person)
Natural Law (Natural Values, 7156-157)

What does it mean to believe in the Quran?

(the definition of having iman in the Quran)

But as for those who have clear evidence from their Lord (Sunnatullah . Law of Nature) followed up by a witness from Him (Revelation, Natural Person) — and before it the ordain of Musa came as a model and a mercy (Natural Law . Natural Values) — such people have iman in it (the Quran). Any faction which rejects it is promised the Fire. Be in no doubt about it. It is the Truth from your Lord. But most people have no iman. (1117)

Burden of Proof

Sunnatullah / Law of Nature
Revelation / Natural Person
Natural Law / Natural Life Values 7156-157

= Believe in the Quran

Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in another part of it? (285)

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
You are evading the questions, quote from you

My simplest argument is the first man on Earth knows well that he can eat fresh meat / pork, and not maggoty and stinking meat... even animal know this. that is Common Sense, and it is "Ordinary Claims" (the Muhkamat).

Why would it be evil for believing the "Ordinary Value of Life"?

You have used 6146 to claim pork is halal. This is the issue.
No answer for why you left out blood and dead meat since they were not mentioned either?

And you have used "Lahm Al Khinzeer" to claim it is contaminated meat. This is wrong also.
You have not come back on the grammar issue and "Lahm" in Qoran used only in respect to animals and fish
,

If you want to carry on ignoring these important points that nullify your claim ,they will not go away.
Please do not spam the thread with repeated assumptions and irrelevant quotes and pictures.
You are running away from the main point of why you say "pork is halal".

You have not justified it from Qoran point of view.
Take it seriously or I will not take you seriously and waste my time asking you to stick to this main issue..
GOD bless you.
Peace

kaltun

SLM to all,

i wanna just know , are these one word or 2 words ... what is writtin in the oldest Quran.

https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/540981346936291330/unknown.png
you can find/read this self on

https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/3?handschrift=281

Mahdi_Ibrahim

You have used 6146 to claim pork is halal. This is the issue.
No answer for why you left out blood and dead meat since they were not mentioned either?

stop trolling and using prolonged repetition / ad nauseam ...read and answer this issue.

| Dead animal / Bible | | | Dead animal / Quran

| You can give decayed animal flesh to the immigrants who live in your cities, and they can eat it; or you can sell it to foreigners. ~ Deuteronomy 1421 | | | Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or flesh of swine..." (Q.6145)

| Blood / Bible | | | Blood / Quran

| "Therefore say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "You eat meat with the blood in it, lift up your eyes to your idols as you shed blood Should you then possess the land? ~ Ezekiel 3325 | | | Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or flesh of swine..." (Q.6145)

| Pork / Bible | | | Pork / Quran

| And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 117-8 ESV | | | Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or flesh of swine..." (Q.6145)

please continue reading that post and answer the issue... no?

repetition?

And you have used "Lahm Al Khinzeer" to claim it is contaminated meat. This is wrong also.

Are you blind?

(Aidid Safar) Indeed it is only prohibited on you the carrion and the blood and the CONTAMINATED MEAT and what has been legalised by way of - for other than God. Thus whoever is strained without malice and not being deliberate - surely there is no fault on him. Indeed God is forgiving - merciful.

cf http//aididsafar.com/translation.html

You have not come back on the grammar issue and "Lahm" in Qoran used only in respect to animals and fish

another prolonged repetition

all maggoty and stinking meat, fruits etc are covered by 2173, 53, 6145, 16115... it is haram. These verses refer to "flesh" (of meat and fruits etc) and NOT MEAT ALONE. ELSE you will make halal all maggoty and stinking foods other than pork since there are no verses to prohibit maggoty and stinking meat (cow, goat, chicken, rabbit, camel, horse etc) and fruits etc; refer to verse 5101. Business people could use these rotten meats and sell it to customer for profit.

Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)

Noun
(21736) walaḥma and flesh إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةَ وَالدَّمَ وَلَحْمَ الْخِنْزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ بِهِ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ
(225956) laḥman (with) flesh وَانْظُرْ إِلَى الْعِظَامِ كَيْفَ نُنْشِزُهَا ثُمَّ نَكْسُوهَا لَحْمًا
(535) walaḥmu and flesh حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحْمُ الْخِنْزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ
(614520) laḥma (the) flesh إِلَّا أَنْ يَكُونَ مَيْتَةً أَوْ دَمًا مَسْفُوحًا أَوْ لَحْمَ خِنْزِيرٍ فَإِنَّهُ رِجْسٌ
(16147) laḥman meat وَهُوَ الَّذِي سَخَّرَ الْبَحْرَ لِتَأْكُلُوا مِنْهُ لَحْمًا طَرِيًّا
(161156) walaḥma and the flesh إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةَ وَالدَّمَ وَلَحْمَ الْخِنْزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ
(22374) luḥūmuhā their meat لَنْ يَنَالَ اللَّهَ لُحُومُهَا وَلَا دِمَاؤُهَا وَلَٰكِنْ يَنَالُهُ التَّقْوَىٰ مِنْكُمْ
(231413) laḥman (with) flesh فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا
(351215) laḥman meat وَمِنْ كُلٍّ تَأْكُلُونَ لَحْمًا طَرِيًّا وَتَسْتَخْرِجُونَ حِلْيَةً تَلْبَسُونَهَا
(491222) laḥma (the) flesh أَيُحِبُّ أَحَدُكُمْ أَنْ يَأْكُلَ لَحْمَ أَخِيهِ مَيْتًا فَكَرِهْتُمُوهُ
(52223) walaḥmin and meat وَأَمْدَدْنَاهُمْ بِفَاكِهَةٍ وَلَحْمٍ مِمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ
(56211) walaḥmi And (the) flesh وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ

(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ãœnal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh of

LANE LEXICON

http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg

http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg

not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.

Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...

it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to

(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnut

FLESH-meat

(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT / DATE / WALNET / FRUITS (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)

flesh

The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.

https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh

inconsistently...

(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pig

Meat ALONE...

Why do they not produce a clear argument concerning them? (Accordingly) Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents a lie against Allah/Sunnatullah/Law of Nature/EcoLogic? (1815)

https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=2dc7da343d86c41a493a185cc5776aab&oe=5CB5B036

please answer the issue...

Please do not spam the thread with repeated assumptions and irrelevant quotes and pictures.
You are running away from the main point of why you say "pork is halal".

Am I? That's is the argument, no?

What have you answered the issue raised in this thread?

Show me...

You have not justified it from Qoran point of view.
Take it seriously or I will not take you seriously and waste my time asking you to stick to this main issue.

What do you know about having iman in the Quran?

Are you rejecting this verse?

(the definition of having iman in the Quran)

But as for those who have clear evidence from their Lord (Sunnatullah . Law of Nature) followed up by a witness from Him (Revelation, Natural Person) — and before it the ordain of Musa came as a model and a mercy (Natural Law . Natural Values) — such people have iman in it (the Quran). Any faction which rejects it is promised the Fire. Be in no doubt about it. It is the Truth from your Lord. But most people have no iman. (1117)

Burden of Proof

Sunnatullah / Law of Nature
Revelation / Natural Person
Natural Law / Natural Life Values 7156-157

= Believe in the Quran

Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in another part of it? (285)

Conclusion

Of course there is no evidence when you simply ignore everything, don't answer the issue, busying with #strawman #redherring, and asserting blind/false claims... it's not even a counterargument and contradiction to begin with, but merely prolonged repetition of your nonsense / ad nauseam, 24 pages ... just read few pages back and people can see it clearly who you really are.

#no_educational_values_and_more_on_time_wasting
#burden_of_proof_on_the_extraordinary_claims

You are the internet troll.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

https//cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/535398007743709216/540981346936291330/unknown.png
you can find/read this self on

https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/3?handschrift=281

you can even see the distance, it is far from the previous word...

good_logic

Peace Mahdi.
I am a troll?
Because you cannot find an answer and have not got an answer, you are deviating by calling good logic a troll?

It is clear you have no answer for your assumptions and you have run into a dead end
I am sorry brother, I am not taking you seriously now. You are deliberately deviating and spaming your own thread.

You will run out of takers in this thread sooner rather than later brother.
Rather than be honest and say you have no answer ,you decided to call those who are asking you some difficult questions trolls?
Well What can I say brother,except, why create a thread for discussion if you are not willing to converse seriously and honestly?!!!
Your Islam surprises me.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

If you cannot answer the issue and merely ignoring everything / prolonged repetition / insults ... then please stop wasting my time ... come back only when you're ready to argue like a man.

do not feed the troll

https//images.theconversation.com/files/140430/original/image-20161005-15882-13x0gd1.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip

good_logic

Peace Kaltun.
If Khinzeer is two words why are they translating as one word-contaminated-?
Where have you seen it translated as two words?

Peace All.

Please note these questions have not been answered .
1- 6146 has been used as evidence that pork is halal because it was not mentioned there. Other forbidden items like blood, dead animals ,food dedicated to idols have also not been mentioned there.
Why single out pork only?
2- Why is the grammar in "Lahm Al Khinzeer" along with wakas query about examples from Qoran and the usage of "lahm" and its derivatives in Qoran solely with animals or fish not been answered.

Mahdi cannot claim "pork is halal" using verse 6146 or "his translation of "Lahm Al Khinzeer " They are not supported by Qoran in this case.
Thank you all.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

i wanna just know , are these one word or 2 words ... what is writtin in the oldest Quran.

one word, see spacing writing style similar other words.

btw the quranicgrammar you mentioned , who brought this and how riable is this ???

100% reliable, read everything ever written or spoken back then/now.
always the "noun" the "adjective" i.e. definite noun definite adjective.

the path the straight
the bounty the major
the thread the white
the thread the black
the provision the righteous
the life the world
the devil the accursed
the success the major
the depth the lowest
the house the prohibition
the names the beautiful

and the ideology the prohibition
and the connection the middle
and the horses the branded
and the neighbor the far
and the day the afterlife/last
and the country the clean/pure
and the home the afterlife its

you will not find a single instance which breaks the above simple rule.

again, broken language which comes out weird
incorrect missing and flesh (noun) the maggoty/stinky (adjective)

https//softarabic.com/arabic-grammar-adjectives-in-arabic/

jkhan

Now let me ask Mahdi and Kaltun..... Do you take for all your guidance the Quran which is normally in everyone's hand or the oldest so called copies recently discovered from certain places miraculously? You should stick to one source.... Okay.. It's up to you...
Now the question is... If the current Day quran is wrong and some old Day manuscripts are right which was far from reach for 1400 years.... Then has God preserved His book to reach to people..? Isn't that shame on God we respect all these years... So for ages people of books jews and Christian (believers) knew that pork is prohibited in their books so does QURAN... Now suddenly God allowed pork and still in entire Muslim society that was not addressed at all.. Though all other critical topics were addressed and had difference of opinions from the main stream by at least a minor group... Strangly all sects in one decision saying pork haram... This pork issue always everyone was in ONE concerted opinion...
So you, Mr. Mahdi directly claim for the misguidance, the Root cause is Energy = Allah?
I know you won't answer logical questions... Simply paste some fancy pictures...

Still I ask you... If you fail then readers can understand why you fail to answer... If you say this question is foolish as u usually say... Then no grudges...
Okay same question....
WHY GOD USED WORD (RIJSZ) AFTER LAHAM KHINZEER ? AND STILL RECOMMENDED TO EAT UNDER COMPULSION?

Shall j give you one example... How silly you are with your view ...
A village Mom says to his son.. .... "don't eat while you go to school any mangoes fallen down even it looks fresh.. It makes you sick... Now kids asks "Mom! can I eat decayed mangoes fallen down weeks back.????... Then Mom has to check her sons mentality seriously?
Do you get what I am trying to say...
God already prohibited dead animal.... Which one is worse? Dead or decayed? Even God prohibits certain other types the one eaten by animals or strangled, etc.. Etc.. Are those looking worse than rotten meat...?

Simply answer what is rijsz?

jkhan

Sorry I forgot to mention one thing in my last post? If Mahdi is right and pork is lawful and then rest of the believers who say Pork is prohibited EILL definitely go to hell.. 6116 coz they invented, they fabricated lies and God guaranteed that they don't succeed..... So Paradise is only for those who say pork is halal....

seekingtruth1111

Shall j give you one example... How silly you are with your view ...
A village Mom says to his son.. .... "don't eat while you go to school any mangoes fallen down even it looks fresh.. It makes you sick... Now kids asks "Mom! can I eat decayed mangoes fallen down weeks back.????... Then Mom has to check her sons mentality seriously?
Do you get what I am trying to say...
God already prohibited dead animal.... Which one is worse? Dead or decayed? Even God prohibits certain other types the one eaten by animals or strangled, etc.. Etc.. Are those looking worse than rotten meat...?

I think this logic here is flawed. We don't eat animal alive. We always eat dead animal which we kill specifically to eat. God prohibits dead animals which are already dead due to other causes.

2173 He has only made unlawful for you that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was dedicated with to other than God. But whoever is forced to, without seeking disobedience or transgression, then there is no sin upon him. God is Forgiving, Merciful