Issue with Salat/ prayer
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Peace jkhan.
I thought Qoran defines the day and night for us
911912
913
914
The Sun and its brightness, the moon follows it, the day reveals it and the night covers it.
Is this not clear? Sun/part of sun visible= Day Sun covered = Night.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Dear brother GL...
This is the same Surah I discussed quite few years back with Quran-islam.org.. But adamence and arrogance with knowledge makes one blind to truth even when it is manifestRemember GL it is not merely the sun(object) mentioned here but it's radiance,/brightness along with is mentioned with a reason.... Off course brightness will show off in nahar chasing the darkness and in Lail darkness will cover brightness when it moves away..
Note... Bit off topic... Just look at the verses of 911-3. Do they fit for globe Earth... Moon follows. .is that what Heloisentric taught us?
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Peace everyone..
8416 ?So I swear by the twilight glow?
8417 ?and the night and what it envelops?
See the clear separation of words ?. God used lail to describe night and said what the night envelopes? of course night is darkness and it will envelop things? But not day (nahar) or twilight? the Twilight/afterglow (Shafaq)? shafaq does not envelop, but night does?
1067 It is He who made for you the night(lail) to rest therein and the day(nahar), giving SIGHT (mubsiran). Indeed in that are signs for a people who listen.
Just ponder above verse 1067? darkness will never give sight but light will definitely give sight? what is giving sight God says is Nahar? if both twilights are part of night, then those twilights are in fact giving light? Twilights are three types, out of it civil twilight undeniably the brighter of them? How bright it is just before sunrise.. that?s not night.. How bright still when just sun go under horizon..
Allah mentioned 11114 ? ? two ends of the day (nahar) ? ?
if two ends of nahar is sunset and sunrise, then see the flaw in it.. those who call Nahar (Day) = Sunrise to Sunset? then sunrise is in fact inside day.. but sunset is inside day? No.. one of the ends is inside the night.. if they claim no.. no.. just before sun rise? then no point arguing.. is it before sunrise or after sunrise..they will end clueless..
If in fact two ends of Nahar is inside the night as they claim.. God could have simply said ?Two ends of the Night (Lail)?.. i.e. just before sunrise and just after sunset.. One is ending of night and Another is beginning of night?
But God said two ends of Nahar? Dawn is one End and Dusk is another.. These two are twilights and Nahar (Day) ? One is the End of Nahar (Day) and Other is Beginning of Nahar(Day) = TWO ENDS of NAHAR? In it God orders to make salat not in visible twilights(two ends) but (ZULAFAN Minal Lail..) from near parts of Night? That?s Isha and Fajr?Isha salat is inside the Night and Fajr Salat is inside the Night..simply word Fajr is the end time for the fajr salat.. And Isha is the beginning point for isha salat.. But both salat should be not far from those timings? no need to say any one about the nearness.. should self perceive?Suppose if Isha began at 730 pm and if the time is 900 pm now.. we know we are getting late?every minute/moment beyond 730 will only delay the salat and will go far from NEARNESS of NIGHT.. So this Nearness is not a single moment but little extended periods but with self judgment? -
Peace jkhan.
I think the "HA" at the end of each verse is singular"either the sun or its brightness, not two things. You know two things in Arabic is"HUMA".
If it was the sun then the verses make sense.
If it was the brightness, in case one says it could be,then the moon follows the sun .
Anyway,"DUHAHA" gives a clear indication that it is the sun.
So, brightness of "THE SUN", moon follows "THE SUN", day reveals"THE SUN" and night covers"THE SUN".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jkhan.
I think the "HA" at the end of each verse is singular"either the sun or its brightness, not two things. You know two things in Arabic is"HUMA".
If it was the sun then the verses make sense.
If it was the brightness, in case one says it could be,then the moon follows the sun .
Anyway,"DUHAHA" gives a clear indication that it is the sun.
So, brightness of "THE SUN", moon follows "THE SUN", day reveals"THE SUN" and night covers"THE SUN".
GOD bless you.
Peace.Dear GL Peace...
There you came to the exact point... Yes.. to be exact they are not two things which is inseparable(like body and soul.. Only death separates it..) ... No Sun no brightness,,,, and no brightness its not Sun......
Singular 'HA'at the end indicates God didn't take it as two things but mentioned in the beginning as two things to show what God trying to say... It is one whole thing....When moon follows it will not merely follow the object... It follows whole thing.... Otherwise grammar wise it is totally wrong...
If only Sun is mentioned in this verse it absolutely no doubt what moon follows and what nahar reveals and what night covers is only sun...but still will be contradictory with nature. But God didn't mention so. God is precise... Added the brightness to show a great sign... Can anyone claim when the sun is covered only by this verse that's why 'HA' is used... Then totally neglecting the brightness.. (Remember brightness is the second word and not Sun)... Coz HUMA is not used.... So when sun is covered we have to take it as brightness also covered... But in reality it doesn't happen so... So God should have said 'HUMA' to show dual... since God only used 'HA' and as singular then it should be considered that Sun is covered and the brightness slowly getting covered... That's Night....
Same applies to Nahar.... Sun is not yet revealed but brightness revealed.. Slowly sun will be revealed... God didn't use 'HUMA' but only 'HA'
So when the verses speaks as.. " And when the Nahar (Day) reveals (IT).. It's actually Sun and brightness buy word "IT".. Otherwise it should be as "Reveals THEM(dual) " coz nahar simply won't REVEAL only the object sun, but of course also the Brightness.....for example... Even after sunrise... It is not the only sun around but of course brightness...
Same applies to night.. Simply only object sun won't be COVERED but the brightness as well...
So what is revealed is sun + brightness...
What is covered is sun + brightness ..
God considers both as one... Without the usage of brightness the verses won't have any meaning with real nature....At the same time we have to see all other verses which God talk of day and night.... Nothing should contradict one another...
Note if God says Sunset to Sunrise = night and Sunrise to sunset = Day, then all day and night verses of Quran should support it without any contractions.... Coz QURAN is not a book of discrepancies...
Sun is hidden behind mountains doesn't mean, sun is covered so night... Sun is covered behind a tall building at the horizon doesn't mean Sun is covered so sun set and night... Night falls when the light fades off... -
Peace jkhan.
You cannot argue against that point. Unless of course you are insisting on your WRONG way.
Are you saying the grammar is wrong? GOD is not precise?
What is it you are saying, that GOD meant the sun and its brightness are the "HA"? Then the grammar is wrong?Then you say, quote
Note if God says Sunset to Sunrise = night and Sunrise to sunset = Day, then all day and night verses of Quran should support it without any contractions.... Coz QURAN is not a book of discrepancies...
Sun is hidden behind mountains doesn't mean, sun is covered so night... Sun is covered behind a tall building at the horizon doesn't mean Sun is covered so sun set and night... Night falls when the light fades off...Brother,the only precise measure for day and night is---Sunset and sunrise-. Yes precision to the second all over the world. Clear day time and nightime.
When you say twighlights/ dawn how accurate are you going to be ? How dim do you want the dawn before you start the day?
Your sun hiding behind a building is a joke. Surely you are not serious? The sun may be hiding from you but not from your brother/ sister on the other side of the building? Qoran says the earth hides it(it is called night on earth). Night and day are the earth movement brother!!!Common , I do not believe I am reading all these nonsense statement from you. Even children know that the shawdow means that the sun is there still!!! whether the sun is behind a building or a skyscraper.
You want to be taken seruiously, then speak some sense brother. You are better than what you are saying.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jkhan.
You cannot argue against that point. Unless of course you are insisting on your WRONG way.
Are you saying the grammar is wrong? GOD is not precise?
What is it you are saying, that GOD meant the sun and its brightness are the "HA"? Then the grammar is wrong?Then you say, quote
Note if God says Sunset to Sunrise = night and Sunrise to sunset = Day, then all day and night verses of Quran should support it without any contractions.... Coz QURAN is not a book of discrepancies...
Sun is hidden behind mountains doesn't mean, sun is covered so night... Sun is covered behind a tall building at the horizon doesn't mean Sun is covered so sun set and night... Night falls when the light fades off...Brother,the only precise measure for day and night is---Sunset and sunrise-. Yes precision to the second all over the world. Clear day time and nightime.
When you say twighlights/ dawn how accurate are you going to be ? How dim do you want the dawn before you start the day?
Your sun hiding behind a building is a joke. Surely you are not serious? The sun may be hiding from you but not from your brother/ sister on the other side of the building? Qoran says the earth hides it(it is called night on earth). Night and day are the earth movement brother!!!Common , I do not believe I am reading all these nonsense statement from you. Even children know that the shawdow means that the sun is there still!!! whether the sun is behind a building or a skyscraper.
You want to be taken seruiously, then speak some sense brother. You are better than what you are saying.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Dear brother GL....Peace
All over the world acceptance is not what I am following and even you are not following in most of the things if your life is based on QURAN....
Science may define night not start at sunset and at the same time other scientists may say it starts at sunset... If you research you will find...
I can't convince you and it is not my aim and duty.... You are a matured man you have vision and knowledge you research and find out... And there is no barrier for knowledge unless it's a dead age where we lose memory...
You have not read me right... I am not someone who will ever say God is wrong.... There is nothing wrong by God calling HA... Did I say so.. No....?
But if you take only sun and neglecting the brightness it is wrong.. Then it is almost like only the sun goes down the horizon not the brightness... Dude.. Go out and see at least one day with the verses in your hand and see what happens with nature....
Research a comprehensive research with all night and day verses and submit here and let people understand what is the definition of night and day given in QURAN..... Isn't that a very critical topic for us since many of our practices are based on that...
After all understanding the quran is not possible personally unless God clarifies... Isn't that true.... Beg to God for clarification with only purpose of guidance and not for any other reason ... Then in sha Allah you may see..
People are full of knowledge and they can deny my understanding is wrong purely with Quran ..then who will benefit.. Myself and all. Based on all discussion people can use their wits and research and conclude... It's not a subject to be kept hanging.. Coz its a subject which is part and parcel of our routine life
Keep it up...
Meanwhile why i mentioned sun behind mountains.... Once it goes from our vision and then it becomes as setting.. And does not reappear.... Mountains are not horizon... Horizon is horizontal.... Your claim is when sun is covered behind horizon it is night...it can't be...
Try to get it -
Meanwhile why i mentioned sun behind mountains.... Once it goes from our vision and then it becomes as setting.. And does not reappear.... Mountains are not horizon... Horizon is horizontal....
its good to see they are going back to basic mathematics and its our destiny to tell them about the selection of words and lines what we can use for both mountains and for horizon.
here is a defination quick one.
In geometry, a horizontal line is one which runs from left to right across the page. It comes from the word 'horizon', in the sense that horizontal lines are parallel to the horizon. Its cousin is the vertical line which runs up and down the page. A vertical line is perpendicular to a horizontal line.
you guys are just two years behind in YEAR 1. nice progress. bravo
http//static.studyladder.com/cdn/course/19/ce6062a85a2e.jpg
perhaps its helps understanding lines of year 3.
can i ask you one question jkhan if u dnt mind telling whats ur education source/institute was ? when u start schooling and how much marks u achieve in mathematics when u was giving year 10 exams ? you can ask me same thing if u r interested.(dont take it personally just curiousity)
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Peace jkhan.
I cannot believe that you are still arguing about "HA" and saying this is not singular about the "sun".. You know the brightness has been mentioned separate ,hence the "HA" is for the sun.
Simple criteria of grammar says the day REVEALS the sun---We can see the sun or its shadows ,like when it is behind a building. And night HIDES the sun, we cannot see the sun(That bright round thing ), it is gone beyond the horizon(The one brother Imran explained it to you!).
What is it that you are still not clear about?
Sun above the horizon, or some part of it still above---Not its brightness---Means it is day
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Sun below the horizon ---regardless of sun brightness or moon above it brightness---Means it is night. When the night is really dark ,this is another part of the night-Ghassaki Al Leyl- like the day has different parts ,example morning and afternoon. The night also has different parts.
Surely you got it now?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace jkhan.
I cannot believe that you are still arguing about "HA" and saying this is not singular about the "sun".. You know the brightness has been mentioned separate ,hence the "HA" is for the sun.
Simple criteria of grammar says the day REVEALS the sun---We can see the sun or its shadows ,like when it is behind a building. And night HIDES the sun, we cannot see the sun(That bright round thing ), it is gone beyond the horizon(The one brother Imran explained it to you!).
What is it that you are still not clear about?
Sun above the horizon, or some part of it still above---Not its brightness---Means it is day
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Sun below the horizon ---regardless of sun brightness or moon above it brightness---Means it is night. When the night is really dark ,this is another part of the night-Ghassaki Al Leyl- like the day has different parts ,example morning and afternoon. The night also has different parts.
Surely you got it now?
GOD bless you.
Peace.I
Peace all
@GL
I know what I am explaining but if you can't grasp, it's Not my fault... research and explain if you are believing night starts at sunset... Till then take care5039 ?So be patient, over what they say and exalt with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting,?
Needless to say TWO ENDS when God already has mentioned words of sunrise and sunset in the book, if two ends are same as sunrise and sunset?.He would have mentioned the same in 11114 but instead mentioned TWO ENDS with intention. God is very precise in usage of words, For example ? Establish salat before sunrise and after sunset, but nearness of night? Did God mention so.. No? but you are taking it as such which He has not mentioned?making contradiction when God is not ?25 47 ?And it is He who has made the night for you (as) clothing/covering and sleep (as) rest and has made the day(nahar) a resurrection(Nushura).?
Why God Should call the NAHAR (DAY) as Nushura while calling the Night as Libasa?ponder over it pls..
Point to think of verse 1778 Sahih International ?Establish prayer at the decline of the sun until the darkness of the night and the Qur'an of dawn. Indeed, the recitation of dawn is ever witnessed.
I just took the above translation to post the below and not to support all translation of sahih?.
5039 uli l-shamsi= Rising Sun - Agreed
50 39 l-ghurbi ( l-shamsi) = Setting Sun ?Agreed
1778 dulki l-shamsi = why then this becomes again ?Setting Sun???? Not agreed ?.
Just coz the word(Duluk) appears only once in quran so any meaning would suit?. No way?. It is declining of Sun ?in simple language declining from the Culmination point (Sun being Highest at Midday) or as they say Meridian ?.
God guide us... -
Peace jkhan.
I can see that you are not really paying attention to what is being said to you.
You want to change the meaning of the verses that define day and night but you cannot change the grammar.
So you are stuck.
Regardless of you said or are going to say, "HA" is for the sun only.
I am not repeating myself to you. All the other stuff you are talking about is irrelevant to the point I made.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace. -
can i ask you one question jkhan if u dnt mind telling whats ur education source/institute was ? when u start schooling and how much marks u achieve in mathematics when u was giving year 10 exams ? you can ask me same thing if u r interested.(dont take it personally just curiousity)
this will tell us a little bit introduction about ur skills and intellect and your interests.
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Peace jkhan.
I can see that you are not really paying attention to what is being said to you.
You want to change the meaning of the verses that define day and night but you cannot change the grammar.
So you are stuck.
Regardless of you said or are going to say, "HA" is for the sun only.
I am not repeating myself to you. All the other stuff you are talking about is irrelevant to the point I made.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.I never said HA is only for Sun... But for both (Sun and brightness) and god has taken it as one with meaning... If I am stuck bring evidence then I will accept if you are right... Till then research pls. Rather you keep saying youraelf that I am stuck that has no value... So bring a thorough research and present and let people go through and let them personally decide who's stuck and what is truth.... Forget the person I am... Just read the Quran and feel whether you are stuck or not.. Take what you feel.. After all it's your decision of taking and leaving a matter... That could be right and wrong...
Whatever I have written is not only for your question but also for all who take night start at sunset... So anyone can bring if they want...
Don't omit a single verse of Quran bring all night and day and support the claim... You can't and I challenge.... Coz truth is ONE... Approach it... -
Peace jkhan.
I do not need to go further than "HA" is for the sun. You are saying thisI never said HA is only for Sun... But for both (Sun and brightness) and god has taken it as one with meaning... If I am stuck bring evidence then I will accept if you are right...
Then Qoran has a grammar mistake. It should be "HUMA" for sun and brightness. If you say GOD includes both as one then this is your mistake and assumption as Qoran has no mistakes.
Do you really see what you are arguing?
If not, then your Arabic language needs improvement.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace GL, jkhan,
This issue has been mentioned before and unless someone can bring some new evidence based on grammar then it is as follows
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608453.msg389009#msg389009Quote
"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus
By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it. -
Salam to All,
With me i do salat 3 time a day Fajr, noon and Isha. I do it with ruku and sujud and in regards to units I dont have a number sometimes I do it two, sometimes 3 sometimes 5. I recite what I can from the Quran and I glorify my creator, also I do supplication in my salat. I don't do tashahud.
That's it with me
God bless you all
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Slm centi50,
why do you recite the Quran during your pray (Namaz) ? means this you holding the Quran in your hand while you pray.
I do it with ruku and sujud and in regards to units I dont have a number sometimes I do it two, sometimes 3 sometimes 5
indeed there is no written how many time you do , its you decision agains Allah, this makes more sense than the obligatory movements what is written, like some of my friends saying , ooops its time to pray ,i will pray quickly and come to you ... do you see what i mean ....
do you also say the dua of ettehiyyat? if you , i would not do it sinse you say
i glorify my creatormay Allah accept your dua's and Insha Allah we will guide to the strait path
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Peace wakas.
So you agree with what I am saying?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus
By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it.correct!
https//i.postimg.cc/4xFWp2zJ/ch90v4-ch91v14.jpg
peace!
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Technical points and complex grammer is really very hard for Weak minds to understand.
the real challange come when u have to explain it to the ?one? who have not a ability to learn/understand.
we have a perfect example of members from flat earth community who are still interesting in understanding the basic/begginers concepts of math/drawings/grammer/cosmology etc.
and unfortunately in the end they never learn anything. ( even they felt their defeat in multiple occassions)its a situation when teacher gives up on his/her student assuming that he/she have not that ability to learn.
may b he/shez good at something else like ?fakery?.
@ bro wakas
lem me guess the next comments by flatearthers.
they will say you in arabic its masculine what if in srilenkan language its feminine?1 first they reject a model of earth from nasa becoz quran said its flat lol.
2 they they reject mathematics/drawings becoz athiests are producers of math rotfl
3 now they will reject the grammer of quran becoz grammer of bible/gita/veda is different then Quran in selection of genders.hahahahaha.they are careless people dont know ?point 1? firing back at point 3 hmm
BTW in ?urdu? its true sun consider as masculine gender where light consider as feminine gender.
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Peace all believers....
Quran is clear what it says... How much people twist and depend on dictionary to change its built in meaning....
921 " And (By) the Night as it Conceals
922 "And (By) the Day as it appears in glory;Who taught you to say sun is feminine and brightness is masculine... That's all nonsensical assumption... Did you forget... God took sun as masculine and moon is feminine in Yousuf dream to depict father and mother... But here moon also masculine in corpus.. As IK says in our language also moon feminine... I don't trust what people created...
Quran translation and applying feminine and masculine is human assumption .. Assumption is not equal to truth...
For example.. Some consider Allah as masculine and some proper noun... No concerted application...
You can take many a example... In 235
Shaitan is masculine and Adam is masculine while his partner is also masculine and Janna is feminine....
They are mere assumption... Like we call the earth she... We don't mind... But in reality they are not... only two genders by god and it fits only two what it deserve... Not out assumptions...You guys dragging one another waqas's tail... Even he is confused... When people say sun rise... basically no one would say sun and brightness rise... Nonsense... Even before run rise brightness appears... You guys don't even give a thought why God mentioned brightness in the chapter... Total ignorance...
If one can say I take in 911-3 as sun only and another can say I take the brightness only... For God both one whole thing.... What's wrong with you people intellect, specially waqas.... No need to go in the foot board while there are lots of seats in the bus... Catching a very single verse and manipulate according to taste... While neglecting all. Other verses...
Meanwhile very interesting thing my Distant uncle who is in Cairo says word THALA in 913 is not Follow... I thought he is kidding.. Then I checked corpus.. All other 60 plus occasions are meaning recite... Got to research why it only became follow... Or it is up to anyone who is interested may research...
Human has body and soul and we say.. He walkS and not He walk without S just coz he =body + soulMay god guide us
