Issue with Salat/ prayer

jkhan

Topic here is Salat though day and night is key for performing it....

So let's Note this tricky phenomena as well......

God says in 11114 to establish Salat at the two Ends of the Nahar (nahar) but/and nearness form the night...
Anyone can simply say three Salat by this verse is far from reality.... Two is perfect... But one can claim four Salat if he take (WA zulafa minal Lail) to be separate.... But if taken separate it should be applied to both ends...both ends have night. Not only after sunset... Three is ridiculous.. Away from absolute truth... Simply hadith based...

Okay.. Other point is...
They have taken two Ends of Nahar as we know as Sunrise and sunset...
Interestingly, they say (specially waqas) that starting point for isha is Sunset based on the verse ENDS OF NAHAR and the end point till the afterglow is around....

God said to establish at TWO ENDS....
so one end starting point taken sunset... Other end starting point should be????? What?... That should be sunrise... you can't change starting point away from sunrise. That's pathetic..... Simply pathetic.... But is that what they do? Starting point for Fajr they take well before sunrise... And making the sun rise as end point... For isha starting point is sunset and end point twilights end...
Simply away from instructions of Quran... God doesn't give any starting point... Just giving indication of two twilights and saying nearness to those two twilights from the side of night.... Just simple as it is....

Now let's turn to GL....
His starting point at one end is sunset... And another starting point after twilight...
Then at Fajr... His starting point is twilight and end point is sunrise...
Simply ignorant of the ignorant judging from no where.. But talking like expert with grammar and closing the chapter like convinced all...

Only intelligent ones will give a thought to what I have written and biased one will never ponder
God guide us....

good_logic

Peace jkhan.
Your understanding and my understanding are different.
You are assuming that is what I understand without discussing it with me!!! How come?
How do you know what I understand until I give you my take on it?
GOD bless you.
Peace

good_logic

Peace khan.
I am afraid your level of understanding Qoran gives the language a restriction and you think you have a point
Here is my understanding.

Aquimi Salat--Notice how this is one singular salat at a time .
Tarafay Al Nahar.- Taraf can mean near and end of- Fajr is near one end which is the beginning of the day and Maghrib is the other Taraf, near the end of the day.
Hence they are not part of what defines the day .i.e sunrise and sunset.

Remember people s day can also be different than the one defined in Qoran. For example my day can start at dawn or even an hour before -When I get up/start work- and ends when I finish it can be 6/7 at night.
Or different people have different times for their day. That does not mean the day defined in Qoran is wrong!!!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

11114 to establish Salat at the two Ends of the Nahar (nahar)

3127 arafan (a part/portion) of the ones reject they of
11114 arafayi (parts/portions two) l-nahri/the daytime

good_logic

Peace Noon.
It does not say "Tarafayi Mina Al Nahar" . The example you gave has "Mina" which gives the meaning of inclusion.

"Tarafayi Al Nahar" are proximities of boundary ,it does not have to include/be part of Nahar,but at proximity to from both ends. The beguinning and end of the day. i.e near both ends of the day.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

imrankhawaja

peace GL and Noon,

this root (ta -ra- fa) is quite interesting and quite technical upon using as per quranic grammer.

i have noted very interesting thing about this root when applied by wrong concept of undertanding i ll try explain it in the end.

(Taraf) its a direction/sides pointing towards something at its borders/edges/ends can be used as DUAL ends like a thing only two ends like a crisp/choclate ends of packing.

it can b used a plural form for having more than 2 ends/edges/borders like borders of some countries, border/edges of page.

and at one verse root use it as indefinate noun what i want to discuss.(3127)

3127 if we interpret it the way of cutting/blocking the borders lines of enemies/opponents instead of cutting them in (parts) make more sense and less barbarianism.

and one more thing attached with this root another meanings like a GRAZE/eyesight

when we use a word (taraf)
automatically eye look towards the direction where somebody pointed us with the help of his hands. the eyes have a direction towards the ends/edges/borders of something.

in case of the hoors (eyesight/looking/glance) will look at the direction towrds your eyes.

btw the word in verse of salat used DUAL form (ends/edges/sides/parts/portions/sections)
example (sides/ways)of road in dual carrige way. day and night working on same pattern.
we can also say two sides of one picture.

my two cents

jkhan

Peace Noon.
It does not say "Tarafayi Mina Al Nahar" . The example you gave has "Mina" which gives the meaning of inclusion.

"Tarafayi Al Nahar" are proximities of boundary ,it does not have to include/be part of Nahar,but at proximity to from both ends. The beguinning and end of the day. i.e near both ends of the day.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Lol you are extremely confused.... That's manifest..

jkhan

3127 arafan (a part/portion) of the ones reject they of
11114 arafayi (parts/portions two) l-nahri/the daytime

Peace..
Just copying and pasting Arabic and translation won't make sense...
You are going offline...
Those who know about the word taraf, knows it's entire occurences... Don't adjust 3127 to 11114...
If you claim both are portions... Then you will end up clueless what are those portions of nahar... We knows for this word lots identical and similar meaning are there... But if you take as part of portion for 11114 then time of that part or portion will end up clueless though zulafan manal Lail is given...
But If Taken as ENDs... Then it is perfect.. Just check definition for ENDs... Nahar has many portions /parts.. But nahar has two Ends... That's teo twilights and not sunset and sunrise or before sunrise or before sunset...
God is perfect in placing words...

good_logic

Peace jkhan.

It is clear again that it does not say "Tarafayi MINA Al Nahar" . You need to look at the roots of taraf when it is not followed by "Mina". It just means near the boundary / at the boundary/ i.e Near both ends of the day.
One part just before the day beguins and the other end just after the day ends. At proximity of both ends.

Or let us see other Qoran verses that confirm your view.
It is you who is contradicting 913-4
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

It does not say "Tarafayi Mina Al Nahar" . The example you gave has "Mina" which gives the meaning of inclusion.

peace -- point was it cannot mean "ends" rather daylight split in two sections/portions.

3127 to severed arafan (?a part/portion?) of the ones reject they of
11114 the connection arafayi/parts/portions two l-nahri/the daytime

dawn -- first appearance of light in the sky before sunrise

2458 connection l-fajri/the dawn
341 and glorify ? wal-ib'kri/and the early part
4055 and glorify with praise lord your ? wal-ib'kri/and the early part
652/1828 the ones calling lord theirs bil-ghadati/in the morning
2238 wal-alati/and the connection l-wusa/the middle (i.e. noon)
3818 yusabbi'na/glorified be ? wal-ishraqi/and the sunshine

sunset -- time in the evening when the sun disappears

1778 establish l-alata/the connection to decline the sun to darkness the night
2458 connection l-ishai/the evening of
11114 and brought of al-layli/the night
341 and glorify bil-ashiyi/in the evening
3818 glorified be bil-ashiyi/in the evening
4055 and glorify with praise lord your bil-ashiyi/in the evening
652/1828 the ones calling lord theirs ? wal-ashiyi/and the evening

jkhan

Peace jkhan.

It is clear again that it does not say "Tarafayi MINA Al Nahar" . You need to look at the roots of taraf when it is not followed by "Mina". It just means near the boundary / at the boundary/ i.e Near both ends of the day.
One part just before the day beguins and the other end just after the day ends. At proximity of both ends.

Or let us see other Qoran verses that confirm your view.
It is you who is contradicting 913-4
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Are you kidding.... Is that you really... That ridiculous..
Why it is needed to be said tarafayi minal nahar... Dude tarafayi itself means Two Ends ...do you copy?... Nahar is day... Remember.. Non other but DAY.... so.. It reads TWO ENDS DAY.... Needless to use the word minal..
Now look zulafan MINAL Lail.... Coz it is not a particular time.. Extended with the convenience but not too late.. Coz it should be close proximity to TARAFAYI... that's why MINAL is used with Lail... Nahar only tarafayi coz nahar has only two tarafayi and no need to say from tarafayi... But Nahar has part/s at various time... But only twin ends.. That's TEILIGHTS at both sides...
Just go back to basic big brother... That would help...

I am curious to know your five prayers timing with the veres of Quran... For that may be waqas would help you... Coz he found two per 24hrs. Day... Lol...

Funny again you are claimimg like my hadith follower friend
... If you pray magrib just seeing sun down.. Then why not pray Fajr just seeing sunrise ...okay let's turn to reality what you do... At least why not pray just..you know just just before sunrise the Fajr... Why taking it well inside darkness while magrib is in good day light portion... Keep a good constant approach to 11"114...
I don't see any difference in you to someone who follows hadith.... I wonder you are stuck in between hadith and QURAN.... rotfl That's just pathetic...

jkhan

20130 "Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours (aana) of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts (atraf) of the day, that you may be well pleased"

Note the above well known verse to all... But still why they mix up coz they are biased...
Here Instead of tarafayi God used the word atraf (means three or more parts of nahar) ..so simply day has various portions same as night...
See.. God used (Aana -hours) of night... God didn't use the word atraf Lail with intent... Coz it is so easy to find out parts of nahar (day) by observing and perceiving it.. Coz its visible and manifest.. But at night things are not visible cannot perceive but only with time spend... So god use (aana) ...here also God didn't use MINAL before even atraf but used before Lail.. All know what are the atraf of nahar.. So many parts we divide the day... Even in all languages... But night is like early night or late night etc. But parts of day has specific names in almost all languages..
See all indications... God had used before rising sun... In fact it just before rising.. God didn't use a word Fajr.. But before rising.. Before setting sun.. Before setting is in fact parts of day.. It already mentioned in the verse.. But specifying giving importance to before setting... Simply God's explanation is incredible...

jkhan

I am really astonished to see that God used taraf or it's related words only with NAHAR(DAY) and other relevant topics... BUT NEVER WITH NIGHT (LAIL)

BUT God used Aana(hours/watches) with NIGHT (LAIL) and not with Nahar..
That's really amazing... I never knew it.. Just now God exposed that to me...
Alhamdullah
This Quran daily teaching me... It's amazing book.. One could have been from God.... Undeniable

good_logic

Peace jkhan.
Let me show you the error of your understanding about daytime and night time
2187
....You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until sunset.
Is Qoran saying fast only daytime?
Is Fajr part of day or night? What about "Ila Al Leyl" does it mean dark or sunset?

"Al Khaitu Al Aswad Min Al Khaiti Al Abyad" are both nightime brother. And" Ila Al Leyl" means to sunset.
So as you can see there is "Al Khaitu Al Abyadu in nightime. i.e light period of night.

GOD would not define day and night for us in Qoran to leaves us guessing when does day/night start and another one ends!!!!
How dark do you want it to be before you start your night?
Sunrise to sunset is consistent and clear to everyone in the world. No guessing brother. As defined in 913-4 .

Tarafayi Al Nahar are not the Nahar itself brother.They are just Fajr and Maghrib. The borderlines of the day.

I can see you going in circles with me here, so I will stop to leave you to reflect on this.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Noon_waalqalami

20130 "Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours (aana) of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts (atraf) of the day, that you may be well pleased"

Note the above well known verse to all... But still why they mix up coz they are biased...

where is l-alata mentioned in 20130?

443 O you the ones believes ye of not thou approach ye of l-alata/the connection and are you intoxicated until know ye of what thou speaking ...

(i.e. don't rant mindlessly)

https//i.postimg.cc/7PtymYG7/ch20v124-ch21v1.jpg

peace!

jkhan

where is l-alata mentioned in 20130?

443 O you the ones believes ye of not thou approach ye of l-alata/the connection and are you intoxicated until know ye of what thou speaking ...

(i.e. don't rant mindlessly)

https//i.postimg.cc/7PtymYG7/ch20v124-ch21v1.jpg

peace!

Peace...
Just read at least what others write if you have any sort of interest I'm replying... Did I bring 20130 to give the timing of Salat.... I brought it to explain what I explained in it... I am not hadith follower to take 20130 to show Salat in it... Lol..

Just sharpen your vision...

jkhan

Peace jkhan.
Let me show you the error of your understanding about daytime and night time
2187
....You may eat and drink until the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn. Then, you shall fast until sunset.
Is Qoran saying fast only daytime?
Is Fajr part of day or night? What about "Ila Al Leyl" does it mean dark or sunset?

"Al Khaitu Al Aswad Min Al Khaiti Al Abyad" are both nightime brother. And" Ila Al Leyl" means to sunset.
So as you can see there is "Al Khaitu Al Abyadu in nightime. i.e light period of night.

GOD would not define day and night for us in Qoran to leaves us guessing when does day/night start and another one ends!!!!
How dark do you want it to be before you start your night?
Sunrise to sunset is consistent and clear to everyone in the world. No guessing brother. As defined in 913-4 .

Tarafayi Al Nahar are not the Nahar itself brother.They are just Fajr and Maghrib. The borderlines of the day.

I can see you going in circles with me here, so I will stop to leave you to reflect on this.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Brother GL

I am not after you but I am after what's against Quran in my understanding... That's all..
I have no knowledge you are one of those closest to God or one despised... That's in God's. In hand...

Did I say I breakfast at sunset... Don't get me at all what I am explaing all the time...
If Iam bothered at Fajr to see when white thread clearly appears and I will definitely bother in the other end when I want to break it.. So do you get when I am breaking a fast... Don't invite me for break fast... Nothing would be balance for me when I want to break fast.. rotfl

Yes it's fine.. If you want to go away from the topic... But whenever I find truth I will bring in sha Allah....
I wonder why most of the people who claim quran is the only source have somehow managed to take Salat as physical and worked out timing for it three.... Waqas case is very rare... He must have a reason for it...
Teo prayers are of course inside night... And one prayer is definitely inside day...
God guide us.... After all.... I think taking one God and keeping the morals and helping poor and keeping our hearts pure and by not rejecting His verses will do in sha Allah....
Salat is just timed remembrance biut we do remember God manana times....
Keep up the Good works...

jkhan

Peace jkhan.

How dark do you want it to be before you start your night?
Sunrise to sunset is consistent and clear to everyone in the world. No guessing brother. As defined in 913-4 .

Peace GL
How bright you want it to be before you stop eating at Fajr?? rotfl
The opposite...

TellMeTheTruth

Salam Brothers and Sisters!

This matter is not going to be resolved until you keep all relevant Ayats in view.
Please have a look at below variations of words for Salah and check what is the difference

Count = 32
The addition of with a word can change the meaning to great extent.

Peace!

centi50

Slm centi50,

why do you recite the Quran during your pray (Namaz) ? means this you holding the Quran in your hand while you pray.

indeed there is no written how many time you do , its you decision agains Allah, this makes more sense than the obligatory movements what is written, like some of my friends saying , ooops its time to pray ,i will pray quickly and come to you ... do you see what i mean ....

do you also say the dua of ettehiyyat? if you , i would not do it sinse you say
may Allah accept your dua's and Insha Allah we will guide to the strait path

Salam Kaltun,

I recite Quran because with the Quran have verses to praise, exalt and remember His greatness, His Mercy and ultimately our dependence on each of these attributes (11-7; 2014; 17111; 245).

And also

They are not all the same; among the people of the Book are an upright nation. They recite God's revelations during the night while they prostrate. 3113

This verse speaks of the righteous and how they recite the Scripture while prostrating. Prostration, being one of the positions of the Salat

The Quran does not specicify any number of units for prayers. It leaves it to our discretion But also it did not forbid you to doing units, as I said before, sometime I do 2 sometime 3 sometimes 4

No I don't to tahyyatu. Prayer is to commemorate God, and God Alone (6162; 2014; 2945)

That's how I do my salat

God bless you