It's more difficult to be a Muslim woman
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I agree 100%. But its not just Muslim women. Its women in general. Women menstruate, women birth children, women breastfeed. And yes the Quran talks about women's issues...but we can't think about it in an "ideal" world. We have to think about it realistically. Men are predators. Not all, but a significant amount. In an ideal world, these people would keep their hands to themselves and not be driven by lust and trying to control women and their bodies. But a lot of them are terrible sinners and this is one of the sins they commit. Even people you think would be good, can secretly be terrible. I mean did you hear about the woman who was in a vegetative state who gave birth to a baby. They didn't even know she was pregnant until she gave birth. which means she was raped in that hospital. And the guy who did it was a youth Christian leader.
I was recently hearing a story of a woman who was captured by Isis fighters and how she was basically passed from one man to the next, they would beat her and rape her and chained her up.
and then a friend of mine told me about stories she heard from people who lived on the street when she was in Turkey. She was nurse and women would come in pregnant and not know who the father of their baby was because so many men had raped them.
This one girl her father raped her, then he would pass her around to other members of her family and then they abandoned her on the street when she was really young. and ever since then more and more men would rape her day after day.in terms of our clothes, I don't think our clothes protect us from harassment and abuse. (it happens to women in Saudi Arabia where they are covered from head to toe) but I think Allah commands us to lengthen our sleeves and our clothes and to cover our breast so that we may be respected and not harassed. But ultimately it's their sin for committing these vile acts. I honestly think even if covering up is not going to protect us we should do it because Allah commands us to. and we need to obey and submit. Those who obey are distinguished from those who do not as righteous believers.
The Quran specifically tells believing men and women to lower their gaze, but what about all those who are not believing men? They objectify women and treat us like objects. Even people who are true Muslims still slip up and make mistakes.
Also, the thing about beating their wives is misinterpreted in my opinion.
And in regards to inheritance... I believe it makes sense because men are responsible for the household. Any money a woman receives is her own, but a man must use his money to take care of the kids, the house, etc. People think it's sexist but it only makes sense when you think about his duties to his family. and they have that burden because they don't have the burden of childbirth...(well that's my opinion).The thing about 4 wives. It was put in place because many men would have dozens of wives. So this limited it to 4. But we have to read the verse in its entirety. This is only allowed in regards to the care of orphans. and after that statement, Allah specifically says that men have a hard time being fair and just so its better for them to have just 1 wife.
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Peace All.
I know I cannot speak on behalf of women nor claim to represent them in my views. So, this is my view from a males prospective and it is general.
Humans ,both males and females have not chosen where, what gender and when to be born in this life, they get here through a reproduction cycle that is not determined by any human.
So societies at the time of their existence shape their destiny according to the system they practice.
I agree ,up to now ,women have not had their life easy compared to the men and there is a long way to go before women can feel they are given the rights given to men so far.
Religion in general has followed a male leadership that has interpreted and set the agenda for women . Traditional Islam ,like Judaism before it has given the male a leaders role over women.
Another disadvantage for women is the motherhood and care of children that most men only contribute to by using the women for their own selfish needs.
The change can only happen if the attitudes of both men and women change.
Qoran had to address this by allowing freedom of choice but clearly highlighting women's rights as a duty.
However Qoran has a clear message for both male and female believers that GOD tries each one in this life and promises to protect both . they choose the straight path ,trust in GOD . Believing in GOD is believing that GOD looks after us all in this life and in the hereafter. We cannot control the choices and decisions of others, but we can control our own destiny by following the best path god instructed to us in Qoran..
All we can do is fight injustice and highlight and shame oppression wherever we see/feel it.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
I agree 100%. But its not just Muslim women. Its women in general. Women menstruate, women birth children, women breastfeed. And yes the Quran talks about women's issues...but we can't think about it in an "ideal" world. We have to think about it realistically. Men are predators. Not all, but a significant amount. In an ideal world, these people would keep their hands to themselves and not be driven by lust and trying to control women and their bodies. But a lot of them are terrible sinners and this is one of the sins they commit. Even people you think would be good, can secretly be terrible. I mean did you hear about the woman who was in a vegetative state who gave birth to a baby. They didn't even know she was pregnant until she gave birth. which means she was raped in that hospital. And the guy who did it was a youth Christian leader.
I did read about that! Absolutely disgusting! I didn't know they found who did it?
Nasty men don't even leave elderly women..
https//eu.thespectrum.com/story/news/2019/02/26/elderly-woman-home-invasion-rape-case-forgive-my-attacker/2995143002/I was recently hearing a story of a woman who was captured by Isis fighters and how she was basically passed from one man to the next, they would beat her and rape her and chained her up.
and then a friend of mine told me about stories she heard from people who lived on the street when she was in Turkey. She was nurse and women would come in pregnant and not know who the father of their baby was because so many men had raped them.
This one girl her father raped her, then he would pass her around to other members of her family and then they abandoned her on the street when she was really young. and ever since then more and more men would rape her day after day.This is so horrendous! These are the reasons why it angers me that so many men do not take this all seriously and victim blame women instead. Rape is such a common, criminal and nasty act, I wonder why God did not speak of it in clear terms?
in terms of our clothes, I don't think our clothes protect us from harassment and abuse. (it happens to women in Saudi Arabia where they are covered from head to toe) but I think Allah commands us to lengthen our sleeves and our clothes and to cover our breast so that we may be respected and not harassed. But ultimately it's their sin for committing these vile acts. I honestly think even if covering up is not going to protect us we should do it because Allah commands us to. and we need to obey and submit. Those who obey are distinguished from those who do not as righteous believers.
I agree that modest dressing is important for both men and women and that it is indecent to be walking around half-naked and such. I don't think it's okay to be rude towards someone or judge their faith because of the amount/lack of of clothes they're wearing though (A reminder for myself too). I do like to point out the double standards in society though.
BUT I also agree that clothing does not protect women. And that the blame of the action is on the perpetrator alone.
Check out these videos about Egypt. In the first video below, around the 8.17 mark, just check out the nasty mentality of those harassers.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gja05symHkk&t=311s
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfNQalkT3Uc&t=871s
There are even women near the Kabah who have experienced groping!
https//www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/02/26/588855132/-mosquemetoo-gives-muslim-women-a-voice-about-sexual-misconduct-at-mecca?t=1555011392335
https//www.middleeasteye.net/news/muslim-women-speak-out-about-sexual-assault-mecca
Apparently, a person is more likely to be raped by someone they know so what kind of victim blaming will people use here?
https//www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence
https//rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/myths-vs-realities/
The Quran specifically tells believing men and women to lower their gaze, but what about all those who are not believing men? They objectify women and treat us like objects. Even people who are true Muslims still slip up and make mistakes.
Also, the thing about beating their wives is misinterpreted in my opinion.Mistakes? If a man decides to harass or rape someone, those are deliberate acts. I would say a lot of Muslim men objectify women as well.
The clothing of Muslim women is also often scrutinized more it seems, by both Muslims and non-Muslims! Wearing too less? Not wearing it the traditional way? The haram police! Wearing too much? The Islamophobes!I do not believe in the beating part either. My point is that Muslim women are the ones who have to keep asking these questions and wondering about their rights whereas men generally have it easier.
But then I do think, men have been given more leadership roles but we can see what a failure this world is because of them. God will question them about it.And in regards to inheritance... I believe it makes sense because men are responsible for the household. Any money a woman receives is her own, but a man must use his money to take care of the kids, the house, etc. People think it's sexist but it only makes sense when you think about his duties to his family. and they have that burden because they don't have the burden of childbirth...(well that's my opinion).
Yeah, that's the reasoning I go for in this case too, that they have to look after their families. But then you have some men nowadays who even seem to whine about having to financially take care of their families..
The thing about 4 wives. It was put in place because many men would have dozens of wives. So this limited it to 4. But we have to read the verse in its entirety. This is only allowed in regards to the care of orphans. and after that statement, Allah specifically says that men have a hard time being fair and just so its better for them to have just 1 wife.
Yeah, there are different interpretations for this.
I do not understand any answer for "polygyny" where the men's sexuality is taken into consideration. Here is another problem that seems to be quite common; women's sexuality not being taken into consideration enough. -
Oh gosh!
And don't even get me started on trying to find a husband!
True. I have been kind of put off marriage. At least in this dunya.
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Peace All.
I know I cannot speak on behalf of women nor claim to represent them in my views. So, this is my view from a males prospective and it is general.
Humans ,both males and females have not chosen where, what gender and when to be born in this life, they get here through a reproduction cycle that is not determined by any human.
So societies at the time of their existence shape their destiny according to the system they practice.
I agree ,up to now ,women have not had their life easy compared to the men and there is a long way to go before women can feel they are given the rights given to men so far.
Religion in general has followed a male leadership that has interpreted and set the agenda for women . Traditional Islam ,like Judaism before it has given the male a leaders role over women.
Another disadvantage for women is the motherhood and care of children that most men only contribute to by using the women for their own selfish needs.
The change can only happen if the attitudes of both men and women change.
Qoran had to address this by allowing freedom of choice but clearly highlighting women's rights as a duty.
However Qoran has a clear message for both male and female believers that GOD tries each one in this life and promises to protect both . they choose the straight path ,trust in GOD . Believing in GOD is believing that GOD looks after us all in this life and in the hereafter. We cannot control the choices and decisions of others, but we can control our own destiny by following the best path god instructed to us in Qoran..
All we can do is fight injustice and highlight and shame oppression wherever we see/feel it.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.The thing is that if men are the ones in more leadership roles whether in politics, mosque or even in the house, it means they have more responsibility to protect the ones who are under their care. But we often see how miserably they're failing. We need more men to understand the plight of women, especially in places where they have fewer rights and protection.
I agree that we need an attitude change, especially men. And as Muslims, our countries and communities are our responsibility.Peace.
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This is so horrendous! These are the reasons why it angers me that so many men do not take this all seriously and victim blame women instead. Rape is such a common, criminal and nasty act, I wonder why God did not speak of it in clear terms?
Salam/Peace dear sister. A friend of mine (Quran Centric) mentioned about this in his video called "The 14th Commandments which i recommend you watching it https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A1_yKkbAjY
And keep this in mind as well is that the word "rape" didn't occur until early or late 14th century
https//www.etymonline.com/word/rape#etymonline_v_3356
rape (v.)
late 14c., "seize prey; abduct, take by force," from rape (n.) and from Anglo-French raper (Old French rapir) "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from past participle of Latin rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid).Latin rapere was used for "sexually violate," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprare "to defile, ravish, violate," related to stuprum (n.), literally "disgrace." Meaning "to abduct (a woman), ravish;" also "seduce (a man)" is from early 15c. in English. Related Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low German and Dutch rapen in the same sense.
rape (n.2)
kind of cruciferous plant (Brassica napus), late 14c., from Old French rape, from Latin rapa, rapum "turnip," cognate with Greek hrapys "rape," Old Church Slavonic repa, Lithuanian ropė, Middle Dutch roeve, Old High German ruoba, German Rübe "rape, turnip," perhaps a common borrowing from a non-IE word (de Vaan). Usually grown to feed sheep, an oil made from it is used in cooking (see canola).
rape (n.1)
early 14c., "booty, prey;" mid-14c., "forceful seizure; plundering, robbery, extortion," from Anglo-French rap, rape, and directly from Latin rapere "seize" (see rape (v.)). Meaning "act of abducting a woman or sexually violating her or both" is from early 15c., but perhaps late 13c. in Anglo-Latin.
In 6151 it says
6151 قل تعالوا اتل ما حرم ربكم عليكم الا تشركوا به شيا وبالوالدين احسانا ولا تقتلوا اولادكم من املاق نحن نرزقكم واياهم ولا تقربوا الفواحش ما ظهر منها وما بطن ولا تقتلوا النفس التى حرم الله الا بالحق ذالكم وصىاكم به لعلكم تعقلون
Qul taAAalaw atlu ma harramarabbukum AAalaykum alla tushrikoo bihi shay-an wabialwalidayniihsanan wala taqtuloo awladakum minimlaqin nahnu narzuqukum wa-iyyahum walataqraboo alfawahisha ma thahara minhawama batana wala taqtuloo alnnafsaallatee harrama Allahu illa bialhaqqithalikum wassakum bihi laAAallakum taAAqiloona
Say "Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should not set up anything with Him - and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near immorality, what is public of it and private; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."And don't forget immorality. And they count as in terms of SA'A or FAHISHAH or UDWAANUN or ZALAMA
Za-Lam-Miim =
zalama perf. 3rd. m. sing. he wronged
zalamtu perf. 1st. sing. i wronged
zalamuu perf. 3rd. m. pl. they wronged
zalamtum perf. 2nd. m. pl. you wronged
Zalima - To be dark, obscure. To give shade . A thing that covers, protects, one, overhead.
ظلمات thulumati/in/un - Obscurity, darknessاظلم athlama/u - He becomes dark, enters upon the darkness
الظلمات thulumati/u - Obscurity, darkness
Zalama - To do wrong or evil, treat unjustly, ill-treat, oppress, harm, suppress, tyrannize, misuse, act wrongfully, deprive anyone of a right, misplace, injure, be oppressive, be guilty of injustice, act wickedly, be wanting in or fail.
الظالمين thalimeena - Wrongdoers
ظلمتم thalamtum - You wronged
ظلمناهم thalamna - We wronged
ظالم thalimun - One who treats unjustly
ظلمت thalamtu - I wronged, did wrong
يظلمون yathlimoona/yuthlamoona - They wronged, they shall be wronged
ليظلمهم yathlima - He was to do wrong
لم تظلم lam tathlimu/tuthlamu - Stinted not, failing not; you were wronged
ليظلمهم yathlima - He was to do wrong
الظالمون thalimoon - Wrongdoers
thulimoo 22267, thalamoo 22267مظلوما mathlooman - Oppressed, vexed, wronged
بظلم thulmin - Wrongdoing
ظالمون thalimoona - Wrongdoers
ظلم thalama/thulima/thulma - He wronged/He was wronged
يظلم yathlim/u - He does wrong
ظالمين thalimeena - Wrongdoers
الظالم thalim -
تظلموا tathlimoo - O you! Wrong not
اظلم athlama/u - To do unjustly, evil
LL, V5, pages 205, 206, 207, 208 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=Zlm
Siin-Waw-Alif = to treat badly, do evil to disgrace, be evil/wicked/vicious, ill, anything that makes a person sad and sorrowful, bad action, mischief and corruption, sin, evil doer, wretched or grievous, vex, annoy. su'atun (pl. suat) - corpse, external portion of both sexes, shame.
sa'a vb. (1)
perf. act. 422, 438, 497, 4115, 566, 631, 6136, 7177, 99, 1625, 1659, 1732, 1829, 20101, 2566, 26173, 2758, 294, 37177, 4521, 486, 5815, 632
impf. act. 3120, 5101, 950, 177
perf. pass. 1177, 2933, 6727
n.vb. 998, 1660, 1928, 2174, 2177, 2540, 486, 486, 4812
saw'ah n.f. 531, 531, 720, 722, 726, 727, 20121
sayyi n.m. 485, 9102, 1738, 3543, 3543, 3935, 4127
sayyiah n.f. 281, 2271, 3120, 3193, 3195, 418, 431, 478, 479, 512, 565, 6160, 795, 7131, 7153, 7168, 829, 1027, 1027, 1110, 1178, 11114, 136, 1322, 1634, 1645, 2396, 2570, 2746, 2790, 2854, 2884, 2884, 294, 297, 3036, 3510, 3948, 3951, 3951, 409, 409, 4040, 4045, 4134, 4225, 4240, 4248, 4521, 4533, 4616, 472, 485, 649, 655, 668
su' n.m. 249, 2169, 330, 3174, 417, 4110, 4123, 4148, 4149, 654, 6157, 773, 7141, 7165, 7167, 7188, 937, 1154, 1164, 1224, 1225, 1251, 1253, 1311, 1318, 1321, 1325, 146, 1627, 1628, 1659, 1694, 16119, 2022, 26156, 275, 2711, 2712, 2762, 2832, 3317, 358, 3924, 3947, 3961, 4037, 4045, 4052, 4714, 602
su'a n.f. 3010
asa'a vb. (4)
perf. act. 177, 3010, 4146, 4515, 5331
pcple. act. 4058
LL, V4, p 181, 182, 183 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=swaف ح ش
Fa-Ha-Shin = became excessive/immoderate/enormous/exorbitant/overmuch/beyond measure, foul/bad/evil/unseemly/indecency/abominable, lewd/gross/obscene, committing excess which is forbidden, transgress the bounds/limits, avaricious, adultery/fornication.
fahishah n.f. (pl. fawahish) 3135, 415, 419, 422, 425, 6151, 728, 733, 780, 1732, 2419, 2754, 2928, 3330, 4237, 5332, 651
fahsha n.f. 2169, 2268, 728, 1224, 1690, 2421, 2945
LL, V6, p 128, 129 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=fHshAyn-Dal-Waw = to pass by, overlook, transgress, turn aside.
adwun - wickedly, unjustly, spitefully, wrongfully.
adi'yat - companies of warriors, chargers, horses of the warriors, wayfarers who run fast on their journey, swift horses.
aduwatun - enmity. udwan - hostility, injustice. aduwwan (pl. aduwun) - enemy.
Ya'duuna (impf. 3rd. m. pl.) They transgressed; Programmed.
Laa Ta'du (prt. neg. m. sing.) Do not overlook, not let your eye turn away.
Laa Ta'duu (prt. neg. m. plu.) Do not transgress, violate.
'Aad (act. pic. m. sing.) Transgressor; Who goes beyond the limits.
'Aaduuna (act. pic. m. plu.) Transgressors; People who know no limits.
'Adaytum (prf. 2nd. plu. III.) You are at enmity.
Yat'adda (imp. 3rd. m. sing. V) He trespasses, violates.
I'tadaa (prf. 3rd. m. sing. VIII) Violated.
I'tadan (prf. 3rd. m. plu. VIII.) They transgressed.
I'tadaina (prf. 1st. plu. VIII) We have transgressed.
Ya'taduuna (imp. 3rd. m. plu. VIII) They transgressed.
Ta'taduu (imp. 2nd. m. plu. acc. final Nun dropped) You transgress.
Li Ta'taduu (imp. 2nd. m. plu. el.) That you may transgress.
l'taduu (prt. m. plu.) You punish for violence, punish for transgression.
Laa Ta'taduu (prt. neg. m. plu.) You transgress not.
Mu'tadun (ap-der. m. sing.) Transgressor.
Mu'taduun / Mu'tadiin (acc. ap-der. m. sing.) Transgressor.
'Adwan (v. n. acc.) Transgressing.
'Aduwwun / 'Aduwwan (acc. v. n.) Enemy.
A'da'un (n. pl.) Enemies.
'Udwaanun (v. n.) Violence; Punishment of violence; Harshness; Injustice; Transgression.
'Adaawatun (v. n.) Enmity.
'Udwatun (n.) Side; End.
'Adiyaat (act. pic. f. plu.) Panting; Running; Coursers.ada vb. (1)
impf. act. 4154, 7163, 1828
n.vb. 6108, 1090
pcple. act. 2173, 6145, 16115, 237, 26166, 7031
adawah n.f. 514, 564, 582, 591, 4134, 604
adiyah n.f. (pl. adiyat) 1001
aduw n.m. (pl. a'da) 236, 297, 298, 298, 2168, 2208, 3103, 445, 492, 4101, 6112, 6142, 722, 724, 7129, 7150, 860, 860, 983, 9114, 9120, 125, 1753, 1850, 2039, 2080, 20117, 20123, 2531, 2677, 288, 2815, 2815, 2815, 2819, 356, 356, 3660, 4119, 4128, 4362, 4367, 466, 601, 601, 602, 6114, 634, 6414
udwah n.f. 842, 842
udwan n.m. 285, 2193, 430, 52, 562, 2828, 588, 589
ada vb. (3) perf. act. 607
ta'adda vb. (5) impf. act. 2229, 414, 651
itada vb. (
perf. act. 265, 2178, 2194, 2194, 594, 5107
impf. act. 261, 2190, 2229, 2231, 3112, 52, 578, 587
impv. 2194
pcple. act. 2190, 587, 6119, 755, 910, 1074, 5025, 6812, 8312
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 262, 263, 264, 265, 266 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=edw -
Salam bro!
Ooooh, thanks for the information and video! I'll have to take my time to read and understand.
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In regards to men being given leadership roles. you are right, they have failed miserably. But I don't think financial obligations automatically implies authority and control. My husband supports me financially and yet he doesn't use it as a way to control me or tell me what to do. He is supportive and we make decisions together. He sees financial support as his duty, but not as a right to hold over me. And even some men complain about that responsibility.
Second, yes women's bodies and our clothes are policed. I hate it!!! I hate the hijab for that reason. A woman should be able to walk down the street butt naked and not be harrassed. her sins are her own and everyone else's is theirs too...but that's just not the world we live in.
I just have come to terms with the state of the world and I know those people that take advantage of women and oppress them and abuse them will have their recompense with Allah. We should consider that there is always justice if we believe in Allah and trust him. Justice may not come in our own time, but it always comes. Either in this life or the next. We should focus our efforts in striving for the hereafter. Charity is not just giving money. We can give our time to these organizations that help the downtrodden.
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Peace All.
Since we are discussing this subject in here, Qoran provides the answer to this problem like it does for all our other problems
"This is a message for all the people.
For those who wish to go straight (yastaqeem in Arabic text, a verb derivative from STRAIGHT/MUSTAQEEM).GOD is talking to all of us males and females.
Once we come across the message of Qoran, it becomes apparent to "uoli Al Albab"-both males and females- that the straight path solves this issue and all other issues for them
The path of God, to whom belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Absolutely, all matters are controlled by God.
God placed the instinct of right from wrong in our hearts before coming to earth. Humans and Jinns are gifted with what would place them on the starting point of the STRAIGHT PATH-To be fair, to be respectful to have the right attitude and conduct...etc-. Once they decide to hit that point, they are promised to be blessed with all the guiding means from God to stay on it. The choice is always ours.
We, males and females, should reflect on this conditioned and honourable invitation from the Possessor of all honour and grace
With it( Qoran s message), God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
And there lies the cause of all our problems. The majority are ignoring the message from the one who created us all.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
Second, yes women's bodies and our clothes are policed. I hate it!!! I hate the hijab for that reason. A woman should be able to walk down the street butt naked and not be harrassed. her sins are her own and everyone else's is theirs too...but that's just not the world we live in.
What you don't know is that people are composed of an instinct (like the one of animals) and mind. Mindfulness from which self control is possible is the one that can withhold the instinct. And it's not an obvious thing to do.
Woman are instinctively driven to show their "beauty". they are acting on the instincts of a female when they do that. What are the odds that a man will respond with the instinct of a male ? No woman in her right mind would put herself in this situation.
Rape is usual in nature where things are governed by their instincts.
Woman who show off their privates are moved by their instincts.
Man who chase these woman are moved by their instincts.
Negotiation, respect and understanding are NOT instinctive.
What we have today is that people ignore these realities and because of that, movements like third wave feminism encourage women acting instinctively while also bring the hammer down on men. It doesn't work like that. Such people don't know where to draw a line between what is instinctive and what is mindful and this is opening a lot of issues specially in Men/Women dynamics in the workplace.
See here a take on this from a western psychologist (Jordan Peterson), it's a different but rather interesting angle
https//youtu.be/uU6pHBs5rNY?t=171 (relevant part is from 250 up to 600) -
What you don't know is that people are composed of an instinct (like the one of animals) and mind. Mindfulness from which self control is possible is the one that can withhold the instinct. And it's not an obvious thing to do.
Woman are instinctively driven to show their "beauty". they are acting on the instincts of a female when they do that. What are the odds that a man will respond with the instinct of a male ? No woman in her right mind would put herself in this situation.
Rape is usual in nature where things are governed by their instincts.
Woman who show off their privates are moved by their instincts.
Man who chase these woman are moved by their instincts.
Negotiation, respect and understanding are NOT instinctive.
What we have today is that people ignore these realities and because of that, movements like third wave feminism encourage women acting instinctively while also bring the hammer down on men. It doesn't work like that. Such people don't know where to draw a line between what is instinctive and what is mindful and this is opening a lot of issues specially in Men/Women dynamics in the workplace.
See here a take on this from a western psychologist (Jordan Peterson), it's a different but rather interesting angle
https//youtu.be/uU6pHBs5rNY?t=171 (relevant part is from 250 up to 600)Why bring feminism into this? It seems there always has to be that one guy who likes to make excuses..
And if you want to bring in feminism then look at the majority instead of purposefully focusing on the radicals to discredit them all. We still have issues like rape and violence against women. We still need safety in the workplace, out on the streets and even in taxis!What's with that blue part? Are you for real? Did that guy in the video really say that women wearing make-up is "sexual signaling"? These types of men are the bigger problem than the small group of radical feminists complaining about manspreading (which is ofc annoying) and such..
This sort of mentality seems to be common with a lot of mainstream Muslim men and far-right western extremists too. Go back one page, click on those links and tell me more about men's "instinct" to rape elderly women or a woman in coma! Or women in cloaks, or children, male and female.And humans are not wild animals who bite on impulse. We have been given control, self-constraint and responsibility. There is NO excuse. You think a man will stand before God on judgment day and think he can get away with "but her clothes made me do it!!" ?
It's high time we put the focus on the MEN who are the majority perpetrators of violent crime and rape. Talk about that. Put the focus where it SHOULD be. Yes, "hammer" down on men.
Decent and respectable men would probably be offended by you trying to make all men look like wild animals ready to pounce.
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In regards to men being given leadership roles. you are right, they have failed miserably. But I don't think financial obligations automatically implies authority and control. My husband supports me financially and yet he doesn't use it as a way to control me or tell me what to do. He is supportive and we make decisions together. He sees financial support as his duty, but not as a right to hold over me. And even some men complain about that responsibility.
Second, yes women's bodies and our clothes are policed. I hate it!!! I hate the hijab for that reason. A woman should be able to walk down the street butt naked and not be harrassed. her sins are her own and everyone else's is theirs too...but that's just not the world we live in.
I just have come to terms with the state of the world and I know those people that take advantage of women and oppress them and abuse them will have their recompense with Allah. We should consider that there is always justice if we believe in Allah and trust him. Justice may not come in our own time, but it always comes. Either in this life or the next. We should focus our efforts in striving for the hereafter. Charity is not just giving money. We can give our time to these organizations that help the downtrodden.
Of course, it doesn't. Providing financially for someone doesn't mean you oppress them.
Also, there is a difference between taking precautions and victim blaming. Some people outright start victim blaming women based on their clothing. Where are these people when a man gets raped? Or a child? Are their excuses reserved for women?
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Peace All.
Since we are discussing this subject in here, Qoran provides the answer to this problem like it does for all our other problems
"This is a message for all the people.
For those who wish to go straight (yastaqeem in Arabic text, a verb derivative from STRAIGHT/MUSTAQEEM).GOD is talking to all of us males and females.
Once we come across the message of Qoran, it becomes apparent to "uoli Al Albab"-both males and females- that the straight path solves this issue and all other issues for them
The path of God, to whom belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Absolutely, all matters are controlled by God.
God placed the instinct of right from wrong in our hearts before coming to earth. Humans and Jinns are gifted with what would place them on the starting point of the STRAIGHT PATH-To be fair, to be respectful to have the right attitude and conduct...etc-. Once they decide to hit that point, they are promised to be blessed with all the guiding means from God to stay on it. The choice is always ours.
We, males and females, should reflect on this conditioned and honourable invitation from the Possessor of all honour and grace
With it( Qoran s message), God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
And there lies the cause of all our problems. The majority are ignoring the message from the one who created us all.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.I agree that God has given us a general sense of right and wrong.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean but yes, if we really did take God's message to heart, we would be humble and kind humans.
Peace.
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Peace SleepySoul.
I mean the answer to our issues lies with each and everyone of us individually first and foremost.
The cause of every problem will be traced back to "some human s choice and decision" without a doubt.
"Inna Al Nafs La Ammaratun Bi l Suui?" It is an inside battle. Good V Evil
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Imagine if every individual worked on fighting their "evil side" ? Imagine if every individual followed the "straight path"?.Sister, I know you also know this. All we can do is fight the evil within ourselves first. Then fight the evil everywhere else continuously.
It is not only difficult to be a Muslim woman, it is difficult to be a "straight human". .This is where GOD s message can be a help and a mercy.
With pain there is gain.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
It's difficult to be muslim woman and muslim man, nothing from the Quran says it's going to be easy...
Do people imagine that they will be left to say, "We have iman," and will not be tested? We tested those before them so that Allah would know the truthful and would know the liars. (292-3)
soul's integrity or self-deception? The test..
• The jihad for women, People of Imran, the "camel", "one who guarded her chastity," is feminism and no mental slavery
• The jihad for men, People of Ibrahim, the "war horses", "one who jihad against giants, ALONE or fews," same thing and different approach, but must not be mental slavery
for both...
salat .. is a very hard thing, except for the humble. (245)
"for the humble" means
Allah has not made for any man two hearts. (334)
meaning..
completely surrender... and either you surrender to natural order or you don't.. .
meaning
You will not attain true goodness (iman) until you give of what you love (ego 2543, against nature and natural order, natural person). (392) Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his GOD? (2543 / 4523)
"Ego" will never accept TRUTH (Nature, Sunnatullah, Natural Order), and accordingly...
Those who have iman (facts) and do natural actions, how few they are. (3824)
On that Day, We shall ask Hell, Are you now full? Hell will answer, Are there any more? (5030)
This Paradise truly is the supreme triumph, for which one must strive hard. Is this the better welcome or the tree of Zaqqum (feels like your throat stucks with a big fish bone)!? (3760-62)
ELSE to ignore the facts does not change the facts, thus "so much for wishful thinking (delusional)"
The Quran may hurt you with the TRUTH, but it will never comfort you with a LIE.
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Why bring feminism into this? It seems there always has to be that one guy who likes to make excuses..
And if you want to bring in feminism then look at the majority instead of purposefully focusing on the radicals to discredit them all. We still have issues like rape and violence against women. We still need safety in the workplace, out on the streets and even in taxis!I'm not making excuses for anyone, I tried to provide explanations from my point of view which obviously went over your head. Also, feminism was not even my point.
What's with that blue part? Are you for real? Did that guy in the video really say that women wearing make-up is "sexual signaling"? These types of men are the bigger problem than the small group of radical feminists complaining about manspreading (which is ofc annoying) and such..
What's with that blue part ? And about that video, he did say that, but it wasn't just "him", he said "evolutionary biologists"...It's scientifically backed.
"We have shown that feature contrasts of the eyes and brows diverge in a consistent pattern between sexes, with females having greater luminance contrast of the eyes, but lower luminance contrast of the eyebrows. Women who applied cosmetics did so in a way that exaggerated these sex differences in feature contrasts. Cosmetics also increased feature contrasts that decline with age, as well as contrasts that are associated with increased attractiveness and femininity, demonstrating the action of cosmetics on multiple signal
channels in the face. These findings further our understanding of the biological bases of beauty by refining the notion of facial contrast and offer further explanation of how cosmetics beautify faces." Cosmetics Alter Biologically-Based Factors of Beauty Evidence from Facial ContrastNow the point he was trying to make is that, since those companies implemented silly measures like "no staring for more than 5 seconds" and "no hugging" ...why aren't they talking about makeup ? it's very relevant if your goal is to create a proper environment for professional work while taking ALL parties in consideration. How is allowing women to "beautify their faces" beneficial to the work environment and how does it affect their male colleagues ?
Back to my point, I said that such unreasonable actions like "beautifying your face" are instinctive and they're likely to be met with instinctive responses from males aswell. Unless the man is respectful, understanding and has a minimum of self-control (and all those things are not instinctive...). If you do not tolerate instinctive male behavior, why allow instinctive female behavior that also encourages instinctive male responses ?
My whole point was that a person is a mix of both what is earthly (instinctive) and what is heavenly (mind), what leads to evil and what leads to good. Of course this has a spiritual connotation to it and is unlikely to be comprehended by a person who feels one with their body.
And humans are not wild animals who bite on impulse. We have been given control, self-constraint and responsibility. There is NO excuse. You think a man will stand before God on judgment day and think he can get away with "but her clothes made me do it!!" ?
I think humans can do more harm on impulse than just bite.
No we have not been given self-control, you learn it. We've been given instincts like other animals but we've also been given the ability to reason. So how are those who do not reason better than animals ?This sort of mentality seems to be common with a lot of mainstream Muslim men and far-right western extremists too. Go back one page, click on those links and tell me more about men's "instinct" to rape elderly women or a woman in coma! Or women in cloaks, or children, male and female.
I'm neither one of those but bringing the example of a man raping some woman in coma only proves that the consequences of blindly following the instincts can be pretty shameful.
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Yes its more difficult and its not only muslim women but women all over world has issues. Financial independence, education, backed by social support will help overcome some of the issues. A society that makes women suffer will see negative results.
Get out of the religious shackles, its not so easy, but there should be a way... there are examples in Quran how Mohammed came out of those and do you think such Islam will make people again fall into such mean things like what to eat, how to dress and live as a different sect with all freedoms restricted?. -
Anything is called instinct.
The fact is that the instinct in human and also in many species is overriden by culture asdquired traits by education and upbringing. It is well known in animals. Kill the Alfa female in a wolve pack and you destroy the whole pack because the Alfa female does the upbringing of the younger.
So that is the complete denial of instinct because we might say there is a contrary instinct that brings in culture and upbringing.
Most of sexual aggressions are nto derived form instinct, but from a power quest which in humans is very much culturally induced. Sexual aggression is nto the product of sexual instincts or need of reproduction but an Ibliis urge to overpower others, nothibg instinctual but shaytanic. In fact far from being instinct that power urge is today by the media and education promoted and induced through the moto of "success" linked to being more powerful than others. If you are powerful everything is approved of you. Ther eyou have all the invaded and destroyed countries. Who is punishing the abressors, hypocritical. If they keep up the show of appearnaces even if everybody sees through, they still get the go by.
Nothing, instinct, everything shaytanic inducement which has nothing to do with isntinct.
Many of those who commit sexual aggressions "through instinct" in fact are quite capable of abstinence if aggression is going to turn bad for them. no trouble at all, but none whatsoever in controlling themselves when they see they are getting something bad ins exchange. Most women know that extremely well.
Salaam
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Instincts according to Freud "mental images of bodily needs, expressed in the form of desires."
Where do you think the desire for power comes from ?
An example
"Testosterone (main male sex hormone) primes several instincts, especially sexuality; also dominance, manifest in self-affirmation, the urge to win over rivals, to dominate a hierarchy, and to respond to violent signals in men, with weakening of empathy."It's true that fear overrides most other feelings, probably because it's tied to the preservation of life (survival). But we're still talking instinct here.
If it weren't for fear of repercussions a lot of people would have committed purely evil crimes.
Just look at how people ruthlessly use words to hurt each other, specially under anonymity over the internet. If you can hurt and dehumanize someone out of anger or hate or whatever reason using words, then under specific circumstances you could go as far as murdering them...
But God knows all this and knows what's in people's hearts. So the only thing left for us is self purification (and self knowledge first or foremost)
