The Mark on their Forehead
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Salaams all,
sorry but the Dr got it right - as far as i can see
He said
"The word "forehead" doesn't occur in 4829 so the title of this thread is wrong to begin with and Pickthall's translation is false. The word "wajh" can mean face (56) or direction/direction in life (679, 10105, 2112, 4125, 2144, 2149, 2150, etc.). "Is sjd Physical ,causing marks on the face or forhead, see this Please.
Using lanes and qd.
WUJOOH=Actions/Deeds/Direction (page 603 QD)
SEEMA=Mark/sign/token/badge,by which a thing is known,OR BY WHICH THE
GOOD ARE KNOWN FROM THE BAD (page 1476-lanes)
4829
Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those who are with him are strong/firm/strict against the disbelievers and Merciful among themselves you see them humbling submitting seeking bounty from Allah and good pleasure .The good are known from the bad by their actions/deeds/directions from traditions/teachings/effects of the submission this is their description in the Torah and their description in the Gospel is like a seed which sends forth its shoot then makes it strong it then becomes thick and it stands straight on its stem e.t.cBut The proof is in the eating Are you then more righteous by a physical sjd or by actions of say a good deeds, or the same?
Gods Blessings.
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The word "forehead" doesn't occur in 4829 so the title of this thread is wrong to begin with and Pickthall's translation is false. The word "wajh" can mean face (56) or direction/direction in life (679, 10105, 2112, 4125, 2144, 2149, 2150, etc.).
I hope this helps.
Ayman
isnt the forehead part of the face ?
salam.
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Salaams saladin,
hey Br. if you don't know the nose is part of the face as well , so ?
Gods Blessings.
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Salaams saladin,
so according to to your interpretation "ALL HAVING MARKS ON THEIR FORHEADS-ARE GOOD" AND ALL THOSE WHO HAVEN'T ARE BAD??????? my god is this how the believers are supposed to be able to tell between who are good and who are bad?Come off it Sal!
Salaams
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Salaams saladin,
so according to to your interpretation "ALL HAVING MARKS ON THEIR FORHEADS-ARE GOOD" AND ALL THOSE WHO HAVEN'T ARE BAD??????? my god is this how the believers are supposed to be able to tell between who are good and who are bad?Come off it Sal!
Salaams
salam mz357.
thats what the koran is stating , i believe . because if one doesnt prostrate regularly he wont have a mark on their face . that is he doesnt perform salat regularly . by doing so he is disobeying God . thats my opinion .by the way , i think i read some ayat in the koran saying that those who will enter paradise will have marks on their faces ?
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Salaam Sal,
for information
YUSUFALI The men on the heights will call to certain men whom they will know from their marks, saying "Of what profit to you were your hoards and your arrogant ways?
Sama - afflict/impose a hard task or punishment upon.
Sima ? brand/sign/mark/appearanceSo according to the above ayah they will be known that they used to hoard and where arrogant because they are in possibly that part of hell ? they are branded/marked as according to their crimes. Nothing about a physical SJD .Is there? And it wouldn't be right to say if you hoard or you are arrogant you don't have a mark on your forhead , surely?Look around at how many of us may be doing the physical SJD but hoard as well and are arrogant too.
Here?s the full drama
007.044
YUSUFALI The Companions of the Garden will call out to the Companions of the Fire "We have indeed found the promises of our Lord to us true Have you also found Your Lord's promises true?" They shall say, "Yes"; but a crier shall proclaim between them "The curse of Allah is on the wrong-doers;-
007.045
YUSUFALI "Those who would hinder (men) from the path of Allah and would seek in it something crooked they were those who denied the Hereafter."
007.046
YUSUFALI Between them shall be a veil, and on the heights will be men who would know every one by his marks they will call out to the Companions of the Garden, "peace on you" they will not have entered, but they will have an assurance (thereof).
007.047
YUSUFALI When their eyes shall be turned towards the Companions of the Fire, they will say "Our Lord! send us not to the company of the wrong-doers."
007.048
YUSUFALI The men on the heights will call to certain men whom they will know from their marks, saying "Of what profit to you were your hoards and your arrogant ways?
007.049
YUSUFALI "Behold! are these not the men whom you swore that Allah with His Mercy would never bless? Enter ye the Garden no fear shall be on you, nor shall ye grieve."
007.050
YUSUFALI The Companions of the Fire will call to the Companions of the Garden "Pour down to us water or anything that Allah doth provide for your sustenance." They will say "Both these things hath Allah forbidden to those who rejected Him."
007.051
YUSUFALI "Such as took their religion to be mere amusement and play, and were deceived by the life of the world." That day shall We forget them as they forgot the meeting of this day of theirs, and as they were wont to reject Our signs.
007.052
YUSUFALI For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.MY LAST POST ON THIS TOPIC.
Gods Blessings.
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Salaam Sal,
for information
YUSUFALI The men on the heights will call to certain men whom they will know from their marks, saying "Of what profit to you were your hoards and your arrogant ways?
Sama - afflict/impose a hard task or punishment upon.
Sima ? brand/sign/mark/appearanceSo according to the above ayah they will be known that they used to hoard and where arrogant because they are in possibly that part of hell ? they are branded/marked as according to their crimes. Nothing about a physical SJD .Is there? And it wouldn't be right to say if you hoard or you are arrogant you don't have a mark on your forhead , surely?Look around at how many of us may be doing the physical SJD but hoard as well and are arrogant too.
Here?s the full drama
salam mz357.
i dont get it . what has these ayat got to do with the marks of prostration ? -
Salaams Sal,
i thought i was explaining about the marks to do with heaven , which you mentioned ,
you said
"by the way , i think i read some ayat in the koran saying that those who will enter paradise will have marks on their faces ?"
Salaams.
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http//picserver.org/view_image.php/9S5Q39S61650/p.jpeg
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Shabbir Ahmed in "Quran As It Explains Itself" .... http//www.OurBeacon.Com
4829 Muhammad is Allah?s Messenger. And those who are with him are stern towards the rejecters, but full of compassion towards one another. You see them bowing, adoring, as they seek Allah?s Bounty and Acceptance. Their signs (of belief) are on their faces, the effects of adoration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel. Like a seed that brings forth its shoot, and then strengthens it, so that it grows thick, and then stands firm on its own stem, delighting those who have sown it. Consequently, it fills the rejecters with rage at them. But unto those who may yet attain belief and do works that help others, Allah promises forgiveness and Immense Reward.
Surah 49 ? Al-Hujurat ? The Private Apartments
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Salaams Sal,
i thought i was explaining about the marks to do with heaven , which you mentioned ,
you said
"by the way , i think i read some ayat in the koran saying that those who will enter paradise will have marks on their faces ?"
salam mz357.
that was some other verse . i cant remember exactly . -
There are a number of things that indicate this prophecy is referring to muslims
1.. The Mark on the face wether it be a physical Mark (sign) or a symbolic Mark..
Islam is the only religion where the followers touch the ground with their foreheads many times a day as a ritual act of praying
2.. The reference that a FALSE prophet has lead these people astray and has deceived them..
This is indicating that the beast (The trickster) will use a false prophet to deceive many. Muslims have know way of knowing for sure that the spirit who revealed the revelations to Muhammad was in fact from God. Muhammad only had the sayso of this spirit himself. A trickster could come in any form and say he was from God in an attempt to deceive.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world"
3.. This Prophet wrought miracles before him.
The quran itself is regarded as a Miracle by muslims
4.. The reference that the followers of the false prophet will BEHEAD people ..
At the time this prophecy was revealed the common method for killing people was crucifixion... Beheading became a favourite method for muslims to kill people both in the past and also in recent times
5.. The reference that they SHALL drink of wine at the time of judgement..
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God
Islam is the only religion that says the followers of Islam will DRINK FROM RIVERS OF WINE in heaven. Again a trickster playing tricks
"By their conduct you can tell them. Are grapes picked from thorn-bushes-or figs from thistles? In the same way, as every good tree bears healthy fruit...Evidently then, by their conduct you can tell them."
We can tell the followers of a false prophet by their conduct.
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There are a number of things that indicate this prophecy is referring to muslims
1.. The Mark on the face wether it be a physical Mark (sign) or a symbolic Mark..
Islam is the only religion where the followers touch the ground with their foreheads many times a day as a ritual act of praying
Though far from everybody has a mark on their head, and we are not by a longshot the only ones with marks an our heads
http//www.light-of-consciousness.org/lightofconsciousness/images/LOC%20%20Hindu%20Gir%20lg.jpg
OMG...SATAN!! she has the mark, beware of them little girls.
and this must be the false prophet then
http//photos1.flickr.com/1270702_1af6e8889c.jpg
2.. The reference that a FALSE prophet has lead these people astray and has deceived them..
This is indicating that the beast (The trickster) will use a false prophet to deceive many. Muslims have know way of knowing for sure that the spirit who revealed the revelations to Muhammad was in fact from God. Muhammad only had the sayso of this spirit himself. A trickster could come in any form and say he was from God in an attempt to deceive.
what was it you said that the "holy" spirit, was again?
3.. This Prophet wrought miracles before him.
The quran itself is regarded as a Miracle by muslims
So thats a miraclE. what other miracleS did he come with, do you think?
4.. The reference that the followers of the false prophet will BEHEAD people ..
At the time this prophecy was revealed the common method for killing people was crucifixion... Beheading became a favourite method for muslims to kill people both in the past and also in recent times
Lol@common method. Yeah the romans used that to people who where thiefes or political enemy's. Bheading is far from an idea arrived from the muslims. Perhaps the french freemasons who used the guillotine are satan. omg...the guillotine is satan!!!
besides burning people at the stake is much more Gods people like. lol5.. The reference that they SHALL drink of wine at the time of judgement..
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God
Islam is the only religion that says the followers of Islam will DRINK FROM RIVERS OF WINE in heaven. Again a trickster playing tricks
yeah and milk, and honey but is the verse states in the beginning. its a parralel. and analogy. I know a relegion that driks wine at every single cermon.
"By their conduct you can tell them. Are grapes picked from thorn-bushes-or figs from thistles? In the same way, as every good tree bears healthy fruit...Evidently then, by their conduct you can tell them."
We can tell the followers of a false prophet by their conduct.
So would they insult other peoples relegion, bt judging it with to their own? is that how you know them?
take a good long look at the vatican and its history, how christians have behaved throughout the colonisation of the world. so Isaa is satan?? OMG!!! burn him at the stake!Regards
Noah -
OMG!! I just realised, the french freemasons where muslims.
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Marks on foreheads (not faces) are a big part of that certain religion that albion (vincentia) follows evidently...
http//www.soufanieh.com/stig06.jpg
http//www.kinoweb.de/film2000/Stigmata/pix/stig4.jpg
http//biblia.com/apparitions/myrna-stigmata-15.jpg
http//www.mortenjacobsen.dk/billeder/gallery/injury/stigmata_1.jpg
http//www.johnsoftware.co.uk/nmerrell/stigmata.jpg
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http//www.johnsoftware.co.uk/nmerrell/stigmata.jpg
Yeah she looks really close to God. You can see her happy face from miles away.
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The last one is from the movie "Stigmata" - I haven't seen the film but obviously the movie makers are exploring the satanic nature of such Christian inventions as stigmata. The photo above it is a 'priest' in case it wasn't clear (he has the white collar).
vincentia (aka albion) was trying to force the Pickthall sectarian translation of 'forehead' on us when it is her religion (and the polytheist hindus) amongst the misguided sunnis who favour such forehead based marks.
BTW I think the large majority of so called prostration marks I have seen on men's heads are fabricated like the stigmata. The 'genuine' ones are also deliberate in that the individual involved prostrates their head on hard concrete in a deliberate way and may even hit the head on the ground. These are the misguided rather than the deliberately deceptive ones.
I think they use sandpaper or rough stones to encourage a callous to form through regular rubbing. There is no way in the world a forehead will bear such a mark with under a hundred prostrations a day. It's a fabrication.
These people all however wish to be seen of men. The physical mark is more important to them than righteousness.
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I asked this question earlier in the thread but so far no one has answered the question.
How can muslims be sure that the spirit (Gabriel) who spoke to muhammad, was in fact Gabriel and not a trickster (the beast or satan)
I found this photo on an Islamic website, its a photo that was taken need the Hira cave during Haj.
http//www.islamicpics.8k.com/images/jin.jpg
http//www.islamicpics.8k.com/photo3.html
The photo has this caption
An unbelievable Miracle
A Jin(Ghost) accidently captured by camera mear the Hira cave during Haj. The creature was seen only after the film was processed.Probably it get stunt for the milliseconds by the strong flashthat it materialise itself. Allahu'Alam.Could this be the same spirit who revealed the quran to muhammad and if so, is it a spirit from God or is it the beast as prophecied in the earlier scripture.
Combine this with the prophecy in the earlier scripture about the beast (Satan) and the false prophet who will deceive his followers who will have the make on their forehead (sura 4829) and who will "taste the wine of Gods wrath (vs quran.. Drink from rivers of wine in heaven ).
And the be-headed victoms of the follows of the false prophet will bear witness at the time of judgement.
And judgment was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads (Revelation 204)
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Hang on vincentia ... I know that photo; it's not at Mt Hira. It was published a few weeks ago as a secret Italian paparazzi shot of the interior of the Saudi Royal Palace. Palace insiders have denied it saying the photo could not possibly be of any Saudi palace because they prefer tent style decor and wall carpets as compared to the rockface simulations with special green Photoshop (tm) splotches shown in the photo.
The palace officials in turn say that it's actually a secret Vatican photo of the recent papal conclave - this creature is known as "Spiritu" is the Vatican's beloved pet. All the cardinals are sworn to secrecy regarding it. The story was leaked by one of the third world cardinals who was unable to shake off the hangover from the drunken wild debauchery that took place over the three days the cardinals had their love in.