How do you understand fasting
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Salaam Brother Mazhar
so who
witnessed
among you
the month
then let him fast itIt is "bi kum" in the verse which means "with you".
It is not "la kum" in the verse which would mean "for you".How one can proclaim and praise the Sublime grandeur of Allah the Mightiest upon your getting aright guided by not eating, drinking or having sex?
And using your logic what is the opposite of "sick" in the verse?
What does means as used in the Quran, for example
2231 .........
Or
7170
witness
/wtns/
verb
past tense witnessed; past participle witnessed
1.
see (an event, typically a crime or accident) happen.
"staff who witnessed the murder"
synonyms see, observe, watch, look on at, be a witness to, view, note, notice, spot; More
2.
have knowledge of (a development) from observation or experience.
"what we are witnessing is the birth of a new political entity"But the second consonant has Kasra, the verb is from inf. n. ,
Lane's Lexicon
He was, or became, present at it, or in it; (S, A, Mgh, L, Msb, * K namely, a place, (Mgh,) or an assembly. (Msb.) Hence the saying, (Msb,) , in the Kur , Therefore whosoever of you shall be present in the month, and stationary, not journeying, he shall fast therein (Mgh, Msb) as long as he shall remain present and stationary -
witness
/wtns/
verb
past tense witnessed; past participle witnessed
1.
see (an event, typically a crime or accident) happen.
"staff who witnessed the murder"
synonyms see, observe, watch, look on at, be a witness to, view, note, notice, spot; More
2.
have knowledge of (a development) from observation or experience.
"what we are witnessing is the birth of a new political entity"But the second consonant has Kasra, the verb is from inf. n. ,
Lane's Lexicon
He was, or became, present at it, or in it; (S, A, Mgh, L, Msb, * K namely, a place, (Mgh,) or an assembly. (Msb.) Hence the saying, (Msb,) , in the Kur , Therefore whosoever of you shall be present in the month, and stationary, not journeying, he shall fast therein (Mgh, Msb) as long as he shall remain present and stationaryYes Mazhar I know what Lane reported from canonized meanings but I stick to the root meanings of a word. I gave you a simple translation for comparison with your loaded translation.
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Yes Mazhar I know what Lane reported from canonized meanings but I stick to the root meanings of a word. I gave you a simple translation for comparison with your loaded translation.
It is naive to call that a translation,. Translation does not mean meanings of individual words.
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Yes Mazhar I know what Lane reported from canonized meanings but I stick to the root meanings of a word. I gave you a simple translation for comparison with your loaded translation.
It is the first and basic meanings
Ibn Faris stated
( ةThat it leads to the perception of presence, witnessing and knowledge and its notifying, telling. And it signifies evidence, eye witness. testimony.
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It is the first and basic meanings
Ibn Faris stated
( ةThat it leads to the perception of presence, witnessing and knowledge and its notifying, telling. And it signifies evidence, eye witness. testimony.
How does this basic meanings contradicts with "shahida"= He witnessed given in my translation?
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I think translation is meaning of words. Are you mixing translation with interpretation.
Considering the meanings and purpose of translation we can say that all reading is in fact translation and interpretation. A native reading the text of his language is in fact transferring the meanings, perception and the message contained therein to his memory where it is written in a form different than the form of language he watched on paper. Mere memorization of the text is not translation but is transcription in the meanings of writing out or lodging an exact copy of something in memory. Storage of longer text in long term or procedural memory and its retrieval is perhaps best achieved through mechanism of rehearsal.
Since the source language Arabic is Semitic while target Language English is Germanic, the Metaphrase involving "word by word" and "line by line" translation would in fact be no translation because intent of the text will not be clearly perceivable.
Another concept that collocates with translation is interpretation. It is defined as transference of meaning of spoken and heard words in the language of second person. The difference between the two is of real time versus delayed. Interpreting occurs in real time. It happens in person. An interpreter transfers the meanings in both directions, on the spot, without any reference material. Interpreter is thus fluent in both the languages.
Translation is a delayed activity because it takes place long after a text is created. It gives the translator time to access resources, like lexicons, glossaries, grammar books, and these days Google to access any subject. Therefore, it is obviously an easier and less taxing task than the job of an interpreter.
The physical and sensory modalities of speech and writing are distinct. They are distinctly different as the physical processes of speaking and writing. Similarly the physical and sensory modalities of interpretation and translation are different. For interpretation, sound - voice is the medium and the organ used is ears while in translation the first medium is the vision through the organ of eyes.
In real world experience the end product of both is communication. Both aim at explanation or establishment of the meaning or significance of something stated orally or in writing. It is also the case when the speaker and listener, and author and the reader, have the same language. The listener and reader interprets the spoken and written words of his own language and saves as perception what he thought or comprehended the speaker or writer intended to convey him.
Except being one directional, the translation is in fact interpretation. For translation the first requirement is the skill for reading. Reading involves translating text into sounds or spoken words. And comprehension involves deriving meanings from those sounds.
http//haqeeqat.pk/TranslationOfQuranIntro.htm
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How does this basic meanings contradicts with "shahida"= He witnessed given in my translation?
witness
/wtns/
verb
past tense witnessed; past participle witnessed
1.
see (an event, typically a crime or accident) happen.
"staff who witnessed the murder"
synonyms see, observe, watch, look on at, be a witness to, view, note, notice, spot; More
2.
have knowledge of (a development) from observation or experience.
"what we are witnessing is the birth of a new political entity" -
Peace,
so Ramadan's starting tomorrow right...
But some people say that the Qur'an doesn't teach to fast a whole month every year but rather, to fast a few day/s every month...
Youtuber Quran Centric talks about this...
What do you think?
The basic principle
Ritual is for men and not men for ritual..Fasting is a good exercise for better control.
Better control of what?
Of your emotion and urge.As for the frequency and timing; there is no such thing as one size fits all.
For those who think that a month a year is more suitable for them then it's fine.
For those who think that a few days every week for the entire year is more suitable for them then it's also fine.It's back to the individual, again the objective is about improving the ability to control the emotion and urge where it varies in accordance to individual and the situation of such individual.
Just like exercise.. you feel that you're overweight then exercise more...
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witness
/wtns/
verb
past tense witnessed; past participle witnessed
1.
see (an event, typically a crime or accident) happen.
"staff who witnessed the murder"
synonyms see, observe, watch, look on at, be a witness to, view, note, notice, spot; More
2.
have knowledge of (a development) from observation or experience.
"what we are witnessing is the birth of a new political entity"Yes "Witness" is a word with TWO mainly meanings. I just add for the second definition you gave the sense of "Confirm the truth, the value of (qqch.).." like in 1226
Quran confirms these 2 meanings for the root of the word "Shahida". So now choose your definition?
- See a "month" ?
- Confirm the true of a month ?
2 further grammatical additions
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Translate "Siyam" in English by "To fast"in 2185 is GRAMMATICALLY INCORRECT because the verb "TO FAST" is an Intransitive verb (No object!). Indeed, in 2185 we have "falyaum'hu" => PRON ? 3rd person masculine singular object pronoun
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(21854) "unzila" => V ? 3rd person masculine singular (form IV) passive perfect verb.
The passive form indicates that the month is not really important but "al-quran" is more important ! Grammatical rules
- In the active voice, the subject does the action.
- On the contrary, to the passive voice, the subject undergoes action.
NB For Mazhar, English words come also from french not only from germany !
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Searching the root we find that 'Saom' is derived from 'SMM'. "SMM' means 'deafness' and 'deaf and dumb', so Saom should mean observance/practice of deafness and silence. Its surprising how a derivative of SMM turned into 'fasting' in the long run!
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Searching the root we find that 'Saom' is derived from 'SMM'. "SMM' means 'deafness' and 'deaf and dumb', so Saom should mean observance/practice of deafness and silence. Its surprising how a derivative of SMM turned into 'fasting' in the long run!
In reality I found that the moment you open your mouth (or use your keyboard) a lot of things happen within, how one's words can serve to fulfill own's ego and give a feeling of false existence. And this you can witness clearly if you're trying to maintain a true state of fast.
Same could be applied to your hearing. Listening to idle talk, getting carried away in entertainment etc....
But in reality it's all about emptying the senses so that you can hear and see better.
"You must fast!" said Confucius. " Do you know what I mean by fasting ? It's not easy, but easy ways do not come from God "
"Oh," said Yen Hui, " I'm used to fasting! At home we were poor. We went for months without wine or meat. That is fasting, is it not ?"
"Well, you can call it 'observing a fast' if you like," said Confucius "but it is not the fasting of the heart"
"Tell me," said Yen Hui, "what is fasting of the heart?"
Confucius replied "The goal of fasting is inner unity. This means hearing, but not with the ear; hearing, but not with the understanding; hearing with the spirit, with your whole being. The hearing that is only in the ears is one thing. The hearing of the understanding is another. But the hearing of the spirit is not limited to any one faculty, to the ear, or to the mind. Hence it demands the emptiness of all the faculties. And when the faculties are empty, then the whole being listens. There is then a direct grasp of what is right there before you that can never be heard with the ear or understood with the mind. Fasting of the heart empties the faculties, frees you from limitation and from preoccupation. Fasting of the heart begets unity and freedom."
Note that in the same manner that this was reported from Confucius, a rather similar message was reported from Muhammad.
?Many people who fast get nothing from their fast except hunger and thirst..."
So yes I think you had some truth in what you managed to conclude from your roots words but that is obviously not all of it. And I quoted Confucius just to emphasize that it's a universal practice.
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It has been a very long time since I have replied or visited this site and I don't remember how to properly reply but Soittosondhani's post today served to buttress the position that I have understood from my reading of the Qur'an! The only two examples of fasting that I have discerned are the fast of Mariam, the mother of Isa and the fast of Zakharia, both which consisted of NOT talking! As has been mentioned in the Qur'an, fasting has been prescribed for us as it was prescribed for those before us, then it only makes sense to observe the fast as described in the Qur'an by those before us! It is my thinking that somewhere along the line, Muslims in imitation of and influence of the Judeo-christian practices, adopted their view about the matter but per the example of Mariam, she observed silence in her vow to fast for Al Rahman!
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peace,
(there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2217, exception -2194,179).
Or think in this way
When there is no compulsion in religion(2256), WHY God commands to kill/fight the polytheists after the sacred full moons/months have passed?95
"So when the sacred full moons/months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point..."peace,
For those (e.g. those in polar regions) who find it difficult to fast(or for doing any other forms of worship), these verses may have the answer,
That those the angels make them die, unjust (to) themselves, they said "In what you were/have been? "They said "We were weakened in the Earth/land." They said "Was not God's Earth/land wide/spacious so you emigrate in it?" So those, their shelter/refuge (is) Hell, and it was a bad/evil end/destination.
Except the weakened from the men, and the women, and the children, they are not able (of a) solution (means) and nor they be guided a way/path.
So those, may be God that He forgives/pardons on them, and God is often forgiving, (a) forgiver.
And who emigrates in God's sake, he finds in the earth an escape, and a wealth/an abundance, and who gets out from his house emigrating to God and His messenger, then the death overtakes him, so his reward had fallen/been placed on God, and God is a forgiver, merciful.
So are you saying that God forgot to mention any exclusions while ordering fasting (if saum = fasting) and left it for us to find out how to fulfill the command in polar regions.
For example, suppose one born in an atheist family, as he attains maturity, realizing the truth and comes to the truth. Will he then continue what he followed before(what his atheist parents taught him)?
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The only two examples of fasting that I have discerned are the fast of Mariam, the mother of Isa and the fast of Zakharia, both which consisted of NOT talking! As has been mentioned in the Qur'an, fasting has been prescribed for us as it was prescribed for those before us, then it only makes sense to observe the fast as described in the Qur'an by those before us!
This is really striking...
So, how it would be if No talking + No drinking + No eating?
Or only Not talking?-God is The Merciful-
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Is the word siyam/sawm used in Quran for Zakariya?
I think Siyam/Sawm is a volunteer act from the quran perspective..that's why God don't use the word Sawm for Zakariya because Zakariya had a correction from God for not having faith. The difference is that in the Bible Zakariya canno't speak during a long time (8 days after the baby came into this world) while it is only 3 days in the quran.
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I think Siyam/Sawm is a volunteer act from the quran perspective..
Upon the mumineen I don't think its voluntary.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=183#(21831)
...prescribed/decreed upon you...
Also discussed here, due to use of fidya
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.html -
Upon the mumineen I don't think its voluntary.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=183#(21831)
...prescribed/decreed upon you...
Also discussed here, due to use of fidya
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.htmlYour translation 3 is correct so it is an alternative so you have the choice..Again in the story of Zacharie no word sawn is evoked.
option 3
"3) "...and upon those who are capable of it* (i.e. sawm) a ransom feeding a poor person..."
*with the implication being they choose not to.
The only problem for me here is that god don't talk about sawm but Siyam. Not the same.Some comments for the word Kataba
The verb kataba here doesn't mean to prescribe in the sense that Islam-religion understands it that is to say, an obligation, but retains its original meaning to recommend, to invite to..
But ok for kitab = prescription but prescription is not really necessarily an obligation. Lexically, the kataba root originally means to write, hence for kitab written, book, missive. It is in this context that the verb kataba means, by extension, to prescribe, that is, to put in writing, and that kitab is therefore valid for prescription what has been written. Moreover, the term to prescribe derives from the Latin praescribere is formed of pre (before) and scribere (to write), from where the sense to write in head, to put in title, to put forward. Also, by definition, any prescription / kitab is not mandatory, it is only a written recommendation. It is the same in English where, for example, the medical prescription is non-binding. It is therefore only under the influence of the legal exegesis proper to the objectives of Islam that the meaning of divine obligation has been superimposed on the term kitab.So we have the Following structure in 2 parts
(1) ayats 2183-184 => General recommendation to make "SIYAM" with a ransom/redemption if u don't want and you have the capability to do it but it is strongly recommended...
(2) ayats 2185-187 => Ok now you have choosen to do "SIYAM" so the word "fidya" doesn't appears in this part and god details the contents of the siyam (quran etc.)Peace
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Took in wrong sense
Yes, both(2187 & 1926) are about sawm, but the problem is that the sawm of Maryam(1926) does not mentions anything which is in 2187 ( i.e. drinking, eating & sexual acts), then how it can be the same? Likewise, sawm in 2187 does not mentions anything which is in Maryam's sawm. Therefore I do not think about a connection between them.
