How do you understand fasting
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It has been a very long time since I have replied or visited this site and I don't remember how to properly reply but Soittosondhani's post today served to buttress the position that I have understood from my reading of the Qur'an! The only two examples of fasting that I have discerned are the fast of Mariam, the mother of Isa and the fast of Zakharia, both which consisted of NOT talking! As has been mentioned in the Qur'an, fasting has been prescribed for us as it was prescribed for those before us, then it only makes sense to observe the fast as described in the Qur'an by those before us! It is my thinking that somewhere along the line, Muslims in imitation of and influence of the Judeo-christian practices, adopted their view about the matter but per the example of Mariam, she observed silence in her vow to fast for Al Rahman!
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peace,
(there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2217, exception -2194,179).
Or think in this way
When there is no compulsion in religion(2256), WHY God commands to kill/fight the polytheists after the sacred full moons/months have passed?95
"So when the sacred full moons/months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point..."peace,
For those (e.g. those in polar regions) who find it difficult to fast(or for doing any other forms of worship), these verses may have the answer,
That those the angels make them die, unjust (to) themselves, they said "In what you were/have been? "They said "We were weakened in the Earth/land." They said "Was not God's Earth/land wide/spacious so you emigrate in it?" So those, their shelter/refuge (is) Hell, and it was a bad/evil end/destination.
Except the weakened from the men, and the women, and the children, they are not able (of a) solution (means) and nor they be guided a way/path.
So those, may be God that He forgives/pardons on them, and God is often forgiving, (a) forgiver.
And who emigrates in God's sake, he finds in the earth an escape, and a wealth/an abundance, and who gets out from his house emigrating to God and His messenger, then the death overtakes him, so his reward had fallen/been placed on God, and God is a forgiver, merciful.
So are you saying that God forgot to mention any exclusions while ordering fasting (if saum = fasting) and left it for us to find out how to fulfill the command in polar regions.
For example, suppose one born in an atheist family, as he attains maturity, realizing the truth and comes to the truth. Will he then continue what he followed before(what his atheist parents taught him)?
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The only two examples of fasting that I have discerned are the fast of Mariam, the mother of Isa and the fast of Zakharia, both which consisted of NOT talking! As has been mentioned in the Qur'an, fasting has been prescribed for us as it was prescribed for those before us, then it only makes sense to observe the fast as described in the Qur'an by those before us!
This is really striking...
So, how it would be if No talking + No drinking + No eating?
Or only Not talking?-God is The Merciful-
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Is the word siyam/sawm used in Quran for Zakariya?
I think Siyam/Sawm is a volunteer act from the quran perspective..that's why God don't use the word Sawm for Zakariya because Zakariya had a correction from God for not having faith. The difference is that in the Bible Zakariya canno't speak during a long time (8 days after the baby came into this world) while it is only 3 days in the quran.
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I think Siyam/Sawm is a volunteer act from the quran perspective..
Upon the mumineen I don't think its voluntary.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=183#(21831)
...prescribed/decreed upon you...
Also discussed here, due to use of fidya
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.html -
Upon the mumineen I don't think its voluntary.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=183#(21831)
...prescribed/decreed upon you...
Also discussed here, due to use of fidya
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-sawm-fasting.htmlYour translation 3 is correct so it is an alternative so you have the choice..Again in the story of Zacharie no word sawn is evoked.
option 3
"3) "...and upon those who are capable of it* (i.e. sawm) a ransom feeding a poor person..."
*with the implication being they choose not to.
The only problem for me here is that god don't talk about sawm but Siyam. Not the same.Some comments for the word Kataba
The verb kataba here doesn't mean to prescribe in the sense that Islam-religion understands it that is to say, an obligation, but retains its original meaning to recommend, to invite to..
But ok for kitab = prescription but prescription is not really necessarily an obligation. Lexically, the kataba root originally means to write, hence for kitab written, book, missive. It is in this context that the verb kataba means, by extension, to prescribe, that is, to put in writing, and that kitab is therefore valid for prescription what has been written. Moreover, the term to prescribe derives from the Latin praescribere is formed of pre (before) and scribere (to write), from where the sense to write in head, to put in title, to put forward. Also, by definition, any prescription / kitab is not mandatory, it is only a written recommendation. It is the same in English where, for example, the medical prescription is non-binding. It is therefore only under the influence of the legal exegesis proper to the objectives of Islam that the meaning of divine obligation has been superimposed on the term kitab.So we have the Following structure in 2 parts
(1) ayats 2183-184 => General recommendation to make "SIYAM" with a ransom/redemption if u don't want and you have the capability to do it but it is strongly recommended...
(2) ayats 2185-187 => Ok now you have choosen to do "SIYAM" so the word "fidya" doesn't appears in this part and god details the contents of the siyam (quran etc.)Peace
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Took in wrong sense
Yes, both(2187 & 1926) are about sawm, but the problem is that the sawm of Maryam(1926) does not mentions anything which is in 2187 ( i.e. drinking, eating & sexual acts), then how it can be the same? Likewise, sawm in 2187 does not mentions anything which is in Maryam's sawm. Therefore I do not think about a connection between them.
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about Zakariah from Was Zakariah the first man doing Sawm?
Dear all, Peace , Salam
To make it clear I used here the term sawm= to abstain, and more specifically abstention of talk as per 1926 and abstain of sexual relation as per 2187.
In the "Great Reading" (Al quran) Mary is mentioned as doing sawm of talk, this in in verse 1926
"So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man say `I have vowed a fast to (Allah) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into no talk with any human being.' "
Looking in the book about similar cases I found Zakarya in 341, 1910
341
He said "O my Lord! Give me a sign!" "Thy Sign" was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three days but with signals. Then celebrate the praises of thy Lord again and again and glorify Him in the evening and in the morning."1910
(Zakariya) said "O my Lord! Give me a Sign." "Thy Sign", was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb."In 1910 Zakarya ask for a sign, and the answer is you shall not speak during 3 nights, and in 341 for 3 days, is this a SAWM?
Well if we take into account, "angels" come down to earth during "laylat al qadr" as per 974, we can assume, the event occurred during the night and more specifically during "laylat al qadr"!
My conclusion is Zakarya event was during laylat al qadr, so during shahru ramadan (full moon), and he was "forced" not to speak, by definition of sawm given in 1926 (with Mary).
Maybe one of the difference between Zakarya and Mary, is Mary could still speak but Zakarya was "forced" to be muted for 3 consecutive days and nights, this is important to understand 2187!
So in "my" logic, the tradition came from Zakarya.- So Zakarya was "praying" (doing salat) in the temple when came the "angels" to him, telling him a good news, you will have a child
- Zakarya answer after being astonished and maybe skeptical hypno was "GIVE ME A SIGN"
- Allah answer is easy "Thy Sign", was the answer "shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb."
THIS BRING US TO 2187
Permitted to you on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments. And ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah hath ordained for you and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah; approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His signs to men that they may learn self-restraint.
1- Introduction (what are we talking about)
Permitted to you on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives
2-Explanation
They are your garments. And ye are their garments
3-Back ground (what was the situation before see 1910)
Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you;
4-Permission given- new resolution from now on, eat and drink is another way to say "enjoy"
so now associate with them, and seek what Allah hath ordained for you and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread;
5-Conclusion and set the interdiction to not approach wives while doing saum
then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah; approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His signs to men that they may learn self-restraint.The abstention during night was initiated during ZAKARYA time and is now "abrogated" with 2187.
So at least now we know why we have to do sawm during shahru ramadan, in commemoration of Zakarya event.Peace
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its TRUE & LOGICAL to solve the FIRST step before we advance to 2nd & 3rd STEP ...
one thing for sure the lunar calendar started by the figure ("omar" / ==>bukhari) is clearly in error due to the seasons switching from hot to cold...
it also contradict the YEAR whats in the sight of QURAN is based on 12 months..
becoz after 3 consecutive years there is a full gap of 29-30 days what produce another month..and then the amount of FASTING days from 3-10 or full month will come in third STEP.
in simple words its an (absolute/definite/confirmed) historical ERROR.AND the FIRST step to see what is FAST and what WAS the FAST before us ?
my current understanding of first STEP is here..
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610670.msg424959#msg424959
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4-Permission given- new resolution from now on, eat and drink is another way to say "enjoy"
TRUE we can enjoy anything in general including (sex,food,drink,properties,money) ===> all these things are directly referenced from QURAN itself..
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peace,
Feeding the poor (fidya) may be another option in such cases?(See reply #33 or #11)
And from 589, 3 sawm is equivalent to feeding 10 poor persons.Regarding yuteeqoona (2184)
Almost similar form of the root comes in 3180,
“And let not those who are stingy/miserly with what God gave them from His grace/blessing think/suppose it is good/better for them, but it is bad/evil for them, they will be encircled/surrounded/burdened (with) what they were stingy/miser with it (on) the Resurrection Day…”
Therefore I consider the meaning for yuteeqoona as ‘to be able to do but find extremely hard and difficult to bear’ i.e. a kind of burden.
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perhaps its not applicable to those who didnt qualify the criteria due to whatever reason..
example people in ISS (international space station).
funny POINT to ponder, its really impossible to do SEX in space station due to gravity lmao.... rotfl
and if you go for fasting from FOOD & DRINK then its only like one hour fast and more than 15 fasts in a day.people in polar regions where they can have (long nights/permanent dark) lasting for months. so they are chilling there..
these type of situations i guess thats why author of QURAN say whoever witness the shahr-e-ramadhan.
The month of Ramadan is the month during which the Qur?n was compositely sent (to the chosen sincere allegiant Muhammad on appointing-assigning him the responsibility of the final Universal Messenger-Spokesperson) ?
It (Qur?n) serves as guidance for the Mankind ?
And distinctly self explanatory verbal passages were gradually communicated from the miscellany of Al-Huda'a the Guide (Qur?n) and Al-Furqau'n the Criterion; the Separator of right from wrong, fact from falsity-conjecture.
Therefore, if he who reaching adulthood among you was present at home in this month, thereat, he should observe it by fasting.
And if anyone has been suffering from sickness, or was embarking on a journey ?
Thereby (he may adjourn fasting) the count be accomplished during the days of another-later month.
Allah the Exalted intends easiness for you people ?
And He the Exalted never intends difficulty-awkwardness for you ?
And its purpose is that you might complete the count of fasting ?
And that you might proclaim and praise the Sublime grandeur of Allah the Mightiest upon your getting aright guided (by adhering to Qur?n) ?
.2185
And so that you people might keep expressing gratitude.
Both the sentences are conditional --- the opposite of a person on journey is the person who is at home.
Interestingly the basic perception of Root
bn Faris stated
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.That it leads to the perception of abstinence, and stasis - stagnancy at home.
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Fasting is the act and state of abstinence of activity relating to food intake and genitalia and speech.
