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  4. Can anybody prove unambiguously that Muhammad is referred to as a person in qura

Can anybody prove unambiguously that Muhammad is referred to as a person in qura

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • M Offline
    M Offline
    Mazhar
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/033.%20B8.gif

    Know it; Muhammad is not the father of a single dead or alive Men (males of strengthen maturity) of you people.

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    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Novice
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/033.%20Al%20Ahzaab/033.%20B8.gif

      Know it; Muhammad is not the father of a single dead or alive Men (males of strengthen maturity) of you people.

      So "rijal" means "a single dead or alive Men".

      I am always surprised with your translations brother Mazhar.

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        So "rijal" means "a single dead or alive Men".

        I am always surprised with your translations brother Mazhar.

        Brother your problem is that you see a single word and ignore what is around it.

        It is a Possessive Phrase Father of any one.

        It is the Predicate of Deficient verb

        This Prepositional Phrase coupled with Possessive Phrase is for specification of .

        You could have corrected a slip.

        Know it; Muhammad is not the father of a single dead or alive Men (males of strengthen maturity) of you people.

        Man

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        • N Offline
          N Offline
          Novice
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          Brother your problem is that you see a single word and ignore what is around it.

          Brother Mazhar my problem is that when I see some additions to the words of God, on the basis of inherited stories I get upset.

          Why your translation has "dead or live" and "males of strengthen maturity"?

          It is a Possessive Phrase Father of any one.

          It is the Predicate of Deficient verb

          This Prepositional Phrase coupled with Possessive Phrase is for specification of .

          You could have corrected a slip.

          Know it; Muhammad is not the father of a single dead or alive Men (males of strengthen maturity) of you people.

          Man

          Correcting a slip was not what i meant. I have issue with extra words conveying certain meaning.

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          • I Offline
            I Offline
            Iyyaka
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            Salam,

            If i can help with literal and historic and linguistic context to better understand ayat 3340

            1. Literal context

            It is not for a man who has faith or a woman who has faith, if God and His messenger issue any command, that they have any choice in their decision.
            And anyone who disobeys God and His messenger, he has gone far astray.
            And you said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you "Keep your wife and be cautious of God," and you hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And you were concerned with the people, while God was more deserving that you be concerned with. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons IF their relationship is ended.
            And the command of God is always done.
            There is no blame on the prophet in doing anything that God has decreed upon him.
            Such was the way of God with the people of old.
            And the command of God is a determined duty.
            Those who communicate the messages of God, and fear Him without fearing anyone but God.
            God is enough as an accountant.
            Muhammad was never the father of one of your RIJAL, but the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets.
            God is, of all things, Knowing.

            => The context is about the right to spouse a wife of his adopted son (he is adult at this moment of speaking)
            So Muhammed has no NATURAL active male heritage. Zayd is not his son by blood.
            And that does not exclude that Muhammed had natural male sons but they never reached adulthood.

            1. Linguistic RIJAL

            The word "Foot" comes also from the root R-J-L. and the foot carries and supports the body.
            He moves the body forward.
            So a RIJAL is an adult and active person who can take care of himself (free) and eventually support and help others people (like a familly for example).
            During the time of the prophet it meant men who are free, adult and active.
            So best characteristics FREE and INDEPENDENT (Financially and/or able to work).
            From this root word you can also derive some translation as someone who is a leader, the first in Something etc..
            From quran to meditate

            • (1764) warajilika - "infantry" in (1764) => On foot..
            • (3665) On that Day We shall set a seal on their mouths32 but their hands will speak unto Us, and their feet ("arjuluhum&quot will bear witness to whatever they have earned
              => the root RJL which designates the foot as well as the work which makes it possible to make a living.

            Peace

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            • LaythL Offline
              LaythL Offline
              Layth
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              Is there any reference about Muhammad the person in quran?

              I am looking for comments from
              .linguistic experts.

              .

              Salam,

              Not sure what you are asking for, but there are multiple references to Mohammed (as a person by name 3144, 3340, 472, 4829) and many more as a "Prophet" (by title) + one reference as "Ahmad" (616) - which I am unsure of as to why the name change.

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              • H Offline
                H Offline
                huruf
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                Salam,

                Not sure what you are asking for, but there are multiple references to Mohammed (as a person by name 3144, 3340, 472, 4829) and many more as a "Prophet" (by title) + one reference as "Ahmad" (616) - which I am unsure of as to why the name change.

                Name... Names means something. Names meant something for people of old everywhere, and in Qur'an they also mean something. It is not a fashion or a thing that sounds cute. They DO MEAN. Therefore the name Muhammad means, Ahmad means. May it mean, for the khatam annabiyin, that he is, and with him all prophets, very much praised and the most praised. Since it is God who calls him that, it is not something that should be tainted with personality cult.

                Salaam

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Brother Mazhar my problem is that when I see some additions to the words of God, on the basis of inherited stories I get upset.

                  Why your translation has "dead or live" and "males of strengthen maturity"?

                  Correcting a slip was not what i meant. I have issue with extra words conveying certain meaning.

                  Your problem is that you do not know Arabic, particularly about how Arabic sentences are structured with elisions.

                  أَبَاۤ أَحَدࣲ This Phrase needs to be clarified. With absolute indefinite noun "anyone" it covers the entire past timeline. Dead or live.

                  Then you seldom apply mind about the choice of words, Why مِّن رِّجَالِكُمۡ. Why not منكم?

                  It restricts that he was never father of a son who reached the age where a person is called Man - a fully grown male.

                  You yourself create a barrier between Qur'an and yourself.

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                  • N Offline
                    N Offline
                    Novice
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    Your problem is that you do not know Arabic, particularly about how Arabic sentences are structured with elisions.

                    Yes Mr. NOORANI I do not know YOUR Arabic but is not the Quranic Arabic enough for us to get guidance from it which Allah SWT confirms to be easy to get advice from it.

                    You have made up your mind that you know everything and only your view is the correct view. This way you yourself have created a barrier between youself and the Quran. I always seek refuge with Allah SWT from Shaitan while studying the Quran.

                    أَبَاۤ أَحَدࣲ This Phrase needs to be clarified. With absolute indefinite noun "anyone" it covers the entire past timeline. Dead or live.

                    Then you seldom apply mind about the choice of words, Why مِّن رِّجَالِكُمۡ. Why not منكم?

                    It restricts that he was never father of a son who reached the age where a person is called Man - a fully grown male.

                    You yourself create a barrier between Qur'an and yourself.

                    I cannot read the Arabic quote in your reply so cannot comment on it. But I could see what your translation was referring to (red part above).

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      Yes Mr. NOORANI I do not know YOUR Arabic but is not the Quranic Arabic enough for us to get guidance from it which Allah SWT confirms to be easy to get advice from it.

                      You have made up your mind that you know everything and only your view is the correct view. This way you yourself have created a barrier between youself and the Quran. I always seek refuge with Allah SWT from Shaitan while studying the Quran.

                      I cannot read the Arabic quote in your reply so cannot comment on it. But I could see what your translation was referring to (red part above).

                      The language of Qur'an is a living language.

                      You ponder not on the choice of words and phrases. Why
                      http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.133/1.%20Abaaeka%20Alif%20Ba%20Waw%20Father/48.gif is used? And what information does it give to today's reader? The other word for Father is http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.083/36.gif

                      You even ponder not as to what was the necessity of using deficient verb http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00050.%20Kanoo%20Kaf%20Waw%20Noon/3.gif

                      With it and without you will translate it in same words. Do you know why?

                      About what you colored red. http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.228/498.%20LirRijjal%20Rs%20Jeem%20Laam/26.gif The basic component, irreducible semantic feature of this word is human males who have crossed over to strengthen maturity and have become fully grown men. It excludes males of adolescence age.

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                      • N Offline
                        N Offline
                        Novice
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        The language of Qur'an is a living language.

                        It is living but polluted language today. The quranic terms have been twisted to confirm to human agendas. Majority follows scholarly interpretations and tafaseer leaving God's words behind.

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                        • N Offline
                          N Offline
                          Novice
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          About what you colored red. http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.228/498.%20LirRijjal%20Rs%20Jeem%20Laam/26.gif The basic component, irreducible semantic feature of this word is human males who have crossed over to strengthen maturity and have become fully grown men. It excludes males of adolescence age.

                          Mature men do not fall from sky. They are born first.

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            Mature men do not fall from sky. They are born first.

                            Nothing can help when man decided to shut all passages to brain.

                            When a child is born he is not called Man.

                            وَنُقِرُّ فِى ٱلۡأَرْحَامِ مَا نَشَآءُ إِلَـىٰٓ أَجَلٛ مُّسَمّٙى

                            And We implant-make those reside in the wombs whom Our Majesty so will, towards a determined length of time with appointed termination moment.

                            ثُـمَّ نُخْرِجُكُـمْ طِفْلٙا

                            Afterwards the lapse of appointed duration Our Majesty discharge you as an infant.

                            ثُـمَّ لِتَبْلُغُوٓا۟ أَشُدَّكُمْۚ

                            Afterwards, Our Majesty keep developing you to cross over to your strengthen maturity.

                            It is useless talking any more to you. Stay blessed.

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                            • N Offline
                              N Offline
                              Novice
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              You even ponder not as to what was the necessity of using deficient verb http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/Tabweeb/00050.%20Kanoo%20Kaf%20Waw%20Noon/3.gif

                              With it and without you will translate it in same words. Do you know why?

                              I have not seen anyone addressing his father as " Ya Walid" but "Ya Abu".

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                              • N Offline
                                N Offline
                                Novice
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #16

                                Nothing can help when man decided to shut all passages to brain.

                                When a child is born he is not called Man.

                                وَنُقِرُّ فِى ٱلۡأَرْحَامِ مَا نَشَآءُ إِلَـىٰٓ أَجَلٛ مُّسَمّٙى

                                And We implant-make those reside in the wombs whom Our Majesty so will, towards a determined length of time with appointed termination moment.

                                ثُـمَّ نُخْرِجُكُـمْ طِفْلٙا

                                Afterwards the lapse of appointed duration Our Majesty discharge you as an infant.

                                ثُـمَّ لِتَبْلُغُوٓا۟ أَشُدَّكُمْۚ

                                Afterwards, Our Majesty keep developing you to cross over to your strengthen maturity.

                                It is useless talking any more to you. Stay blessed.

                                Thank you brother. May Allah SWT bless you as well.

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