New article: What is the meaning of "al masjid al haram"?
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peace Mazhar, all,
I was able to get clarification on the grammar issues discussed previously between Mazhar and myself.
I asked bro uq (who is fairly knowledgeable of Arabic)
He replied
(1) There is no grammatical rule that would restrict 2149-150 to al-masjid al-haram, it is a contextual inference. It can refer to (a) al-masjid al-haram or (b) any place from which one has journeyed/left. Because this is a contextual inference, one cannot claim with absolute conviction that it refers to (a) or (b).
(2) Yes, that's correct. However, can carry a similar meaning to wherever if used indefinitely.
Re 2)
I dont see how changing "... and from wherever..." to "and from where..." changes anything in these verses. I will think it over.Adverb of location, always in construct with a following sentence
And O you the Messenger! from whatever direction you exited the Sacred Mosque, Thereby, for reason of being distant from it, cause your self face to face the dimension of the Sacred Mosque.
And you the believers whatever direction you left the Sacred Mosque, thereafter for reason of being outside-distant from it, cause your self face to face its (Sacred Mosque) dimension ?
In the second sentence the verb of exit is elided, One exits from a place having demarcated boundaries. The suffixed masculine pronoun in refers back to
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peace Wakas,
if AMAH refers time, this verse makes no sense?
"O you who believe, the polytheists are impure, so let them not approach Al Masjid Al Haram after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise."
irrespective of the faith, all people will reach 'the time' as long as they are alive.
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peace Wakas,
if AMAH refers time, this verse makes no sense?
"O you who believe, the polytheists are impure, so let them not approach Al Masjid Al Haram after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise."
irrespective of the faith, all people will reach 'the time' as long as they are alive.
http//haqeeqat.pk/roots/00.Tabweeb%20Part%202/001.%20Roots%20originating%20in%20Surat%20002/2.034/150.%20Isjidoo%20Seen%20Jeem%20Daal/4.gif
Locative Noun-Adverb of Place - ظرف المكان --It is a noun derived from imperfect verb. An adverb of place always talks about the location where the action of the verb is being carried out. Adverb of place tells us where something happens. They are usually placed after the main verb or after the clause that they modify. Adverbs of place do not modify adjectives or other adverbs.
وَلَا تُبَٟشِـرُوهُنَّ وَأَنتُـمْ عَٟكِفُونَ فِـى ٱلْمَسَٟجِدِۗ
Take note; you people should not establish intimate mutually consented matrimonial contact-intercourse on visiting them (respective wives) during the currency of the period you are devotee in reclusion inside the Mosques.
Preposition فِـى Rest in a place or during a time, and motion into a place. This signification is then transferred to the relation subsisting between any two things, the one of which is regarded as the place in which the other is, or happens, or into which it goes or is put.
A place is for entering into it and getting out of it
وَصَدٌّ عَن سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ وَكُفْرُۢ بِهِۦ وَٱلْمَسْجِدِ ٱلْحَرَامِ وَإِخْرَاجُ أَهْلِهِۦ مِنْهُ أَكْبَـرُ عِندَ ٱللَّهِۚ
But take note that the act of hindering people from the Path of Allah the Exalted and persistent denial of it and restraining people from the sacred Mosque, and causing expulsion of its residents is a far greater matter in the sight of Allah the Exalted".
إِخْرَاجُ to cause exit, expel.
مَا كَانَ لِلْمُشْـرِكِيـنَ أَن يَعْمُـرُوا۟ مَسَٟجِدَ ٱللَّهِ شَٟهِدِينَ عَلَـىٰٓ أَنفُسِهِـم بِالْـكُـفْـرِۚ
Their visiting and managing the Mosques of Allah the Exalted has never been desirable for the Idol Worshipers-Polytheists being aware-witness upon their selves of disbelief.
It shows at the time of revelation, there existed at least three mosques in Arabian peninsula.
وَٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ مَسْجِدٙا ضِرَارٙا وَكُفْرٙا وَتَفْرِيقَاۢ بَيْـنَ ٱلْمُؤْمِنِيـنَ
And as for those who had earlier adopted a mosque for causing harm and disbelief and a state of division-disintegration amongst the believers —
وَإِرْصَادٙا لِّمَنْ حَارَبَ ٱللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُۥ مِن قَبْلُۚ
And as a launching pad-station for him who foretimes intrigued-battled against Allah the Exalted and His Messenger
وَلَيَحْلِفُنَّ إِنْ أَرَدْنَآ إِلَّا ٱلْحُسْنَىٰۖ
They will certainly swear and say "We intended nothing except good".
وَٱللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّـهُـمْ لَـكَـٟذِبُونَ .9107١٠٧
Mind it, Allah the Exalted bears witness emphasizing that they are certainly the liars.
لَا تَقُمْ فِيهِ أَبَدٙاۚ
You the Messenger should never ever stand within that mosque.
I hope it suffices to prove this location adverb is certainly spatial.
Masjid is there ever since House of Allah the Exalted was built by Ibrahim and Ismail alahissalam. It predates Qur'an (not Islam).
إِنْ أَحْسَنتُـمْ أَحْسَنتُـمْ لِأَنفُسِكُـمْۖ وَإِنْ أَسَأْتُـمْ فَلَـهَاۚ
"If you acted modestly, gracefully and generously you would have done it for your own selves, and if you people did evil, thereby, you will have to suffer its effect."
فَإِذَا جَآءَ وَعْدُ ٱلۡءَاخِـرَةِ
Eventually, when the time of second of the two promised occasions reached —
لِيَسُـــُٔووا۟ۥٓ وُجُوهَكُـمْ وَلِيَدْخُلُوا۟ ٱلْمَسْجِدَ كَمَا دَخَلُوهُ أَوَّلَ مَـرَّةٛ
Our Majesty appointed those mighty ones so that they may depress and sadden your faces, and so that they may enter the Mosque just as they had entered on the first occasion —
وَلِيُتَبِّـرُوا۟ مَا عَلَوْا۟ تَتْبِيـرٙا .1707٧
And so that they smash what they had conquered, quite destructively.
لِيَدْخُلُوا۟ We enter into a demarcated place.
قَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ غَلَبُوا۟ عَلَـىٰٓ أَمْرِهِـمْ
Those who dominantly prevailed the debate, regarding the matter pertaining to the Young men of Cave, confidently said,
لَنَتَّخِذَنَّ عَلَيْـهِـم مَّسْجِدٙا .1821٢١
"Surely, we pledge that in future we will adopt the newly built memorial over them as a mosque."
One object of verb is elided. They were inside the Cave. The place upon them is obviously the roof of the cave. They were to built the memorial over there and hold it as mosque.
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It looks a place of pilgrimage, where people spend time/days with certain rules and restrictions, disciplinary life, May be the temple the symbol of pilgrimage is ancient and during Mohammed's time different religions started claiming it and Muslims after becoming majority sect completely dominated and prevented others visiting it. Quran claims others should not visit it from that year as they are 'Impure'.
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peace,
peace Wakas,
if AMAH refers time, this verse makes no sense?
"O you who believe, the polytheists are impure, so let them not approach Al Masjid Al Haram after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise."
irrespective of the faith, all people will reach 'the time' as long as they are alive.
I can appreciate this objection. I have discussed this previously, e.g.
Some confusion may be resulting from not appreciating that AMAH is a reference for the time-period/event of the inviolable months wherein al hajj is held and various restrictions/guidelines are in place at a locality.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608271.msg383916#msg383916
In the article, I propose it is referring to the specific mushrikeen in context, i.e. those who violated the treaty.
al hajj /the commemoration, is an event, taking place within the inviolable months, in a designated location. In this location various regulations are in place, run by the community. At this point in time, the believers had triumphed (i.e. the majority) thus going forward they were in charge of this event and the regulation of it. If they make a treaty with whoever, they can determine who attends, trades etc.
To be fair, this understanding requires understanding to some extent the chronology in Quran (especially the latter revealed chapters, e.g. 9), and how at the end the believers seemed to be forming into a confederation.I am of the view the believers used this event to converge upon one location, leading to triumph. This can be understood in the article
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html -
peace Wakas,
This is what my observation of your responses for my posts
It seems the contexts starting from the verse 142 in chapter 2 denotes an issue related to geographical direction because, the answer for the question (of the ignorant/foolish) in the beginning verse (with the terms ‘wallaa' and ‘qibla' itself involves geographical directions, i.e. Mashriq & Maghrib.
Your answer was irrelevant. The verse itself mentions geographical directions.
Why Qur'an calls kaba/ AMAH as 'ancient house'?(2229) may be an indication that it is the same one used in ancient times for hajj by former prophets (and so is in the future).
You don’t have enough evidence to disprove the commonly understood meaning of العتيق
if AMAH refers time, this verse makes no sense?
"O you who believe, the polytheists are impure, so let them not approach Al Masjid Al Haram after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then God will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. God is Knowledgeable, Wise."
irrespective of the faith, all people will reach 'the time' as long as they are alive.
You didn’t give/you don’t have a straight answer.
If your theory is the right one/ the truth, you can easily give straight answers to these kinds of questions.
Also, as per your Hajj article, Hajj can take place at a number of places at the same time i.e. there can be more than one makkah, alka’ba etc. But nowhere the Qur’an hints such a possibility/ nowhere the Qur’an mentions/expresses makkah, alka’ba etc.in such a manner (e.g. in plural forms)
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peace Mohammed,
The issue you point out actually reduces the likelihood of your position, as it requires readers to accept Quran mentions physical directions are irrelevant (east and west) then appoints a physical direction. Doesn't make sense to me but each to their own.
By asking why does Quran not use plural of makkah and/or kaabah shows you have not understood these terms as mentioned in my articles.
My view is "makkah" simply means "crowding", and "al kaabah" simply means the base or the elevation and is specific to the locality wherein al hajj was held at the time. Think of it as a known area/landmark and such a boundary/demarcation is a logical necessity when hosting an event such as al hajj which has various regulations enacted in a specific locality.
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Salamun Alaikum
Al Masjid al Haram simply means The Law, which law you may ask? It could be the law/commandments/guidance of Allah and/or the law of the land where people resides. Why else are we told to turn our faces towards al Masjid al Haram wherever we are, if it is not the law? Since to literally turn your faces towards amah is a physical impossibility.
Peace
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peace almarh0m,
You have mentioned your "the law" theory before, and as I suggested to you then the article provides a checklist to run any understanding through to see if it fits, what issues arise (if any) etc.
It is unfortunate that even those who follow a Quran based islam will claim X but do not even do (what I consider to be) the basics to verify them, yet they keep on claiming X. This type of practice is rife amongst Traditionalists.
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peace Wakas,
You are repeatedly saying physical direction is irrelevant. If you are saying it by referring 2177, then, anyone can understand that 2177 is talking in a manner that turning to a particular direction is not the important thing like what are listed there. Rather, the verse make sense that the practice of turning face to a particular direction was already there among believers (that’s why the Qur’an mentioned it !). And note that the Qur’an does not forbidding it, just saying it is not the important thing.
And as I understand, this having connection with the timed swalat because,
- According to the Qur’an, there are two swalat in a day for the believers and the command to turn face towards AMAH comes two times (2144&150). And there are 3 swalat for the prophet and the command to turn face comes 3 times for the prophet (2144,149&150).
- If a particular direction is not there for the timed swalat, confusion/dispute may arise which direction to face, especially when doing in group. Each individual may pleased /satisfied in different directions.
I think the saying in 2177 is for those who struggle to maintain a direction for their timed swalat even in adverse situations. e.g.,
- In fright/war
- When isolated in an unfamiliar land or in the sea on a cloudy day (cannot see sun/moon/stars) so that no means to know directions.
My view is "makkah" simply means "crowding", and "al kaabah" simply means the base or the elevation and is specific to the locality wherein al hajj was held at the time. Think of it as a known area/landmark and such a boundary/demarcation is a logical necessity when hosting an event such as al hajj which has various regulations enacted in a specific locality.
Whatever is the meaning of makkah, alkaabah, alssafa, almarwa etc., nowhere the Qur’an mentions it in such a way that it can occur at multiple places.
Qur’an calls it albait alharam. I cannot see it just as a landmark/ demarcation thing that can happen anywhere in the world! It’s something beyond that, according to the Qur’anic descriptions.
It’s the place itself makes it sacred (e.g. Revelation of the Qur'an) and so is their boundary. (Sacredness by geography is possible, e.g. 2012)
Also, why people have to come for Hajj from distant/remote areas?(2227) Why they didn’t have their own makkah, alkaabah?Another thing is that, in Hajj there is a practice of giving drink (919), which requires water, also water required for other basic needs, ablution etc. of thousands(if it’s like you said)/millions of people. Which means the place requires a source for this huge quantity of water throughout the year (Hajj /Umrah).
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peace,
Also, why people have to come for Hajj from distant/remote areas?(2227) Why they didn’t have their own makkah, alkaabah?
Again, you are not using makkah and kaabah in the way I understand them but in any case, as I said in the quote you highlighted, al hajj held at the time was at a specific locality. The believers at the messenger's time simply used the blueprint of Abraham and what he did and implemented it wherever they were (i.e. in their locality). Likewise believers now can do this wherever they are, assuming they can implement the various stipulations in place.
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The $100 USD challenge
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
Conclusion of parts 1, 2, 3
The Quranic evidence weighs the evidence in favour of SJD meaning "to submit/honour/pay respect", "masjid" meaning "time of SJD", "al masjid al haram" meaning "the inviolable time of SJD" (i.e. the term referring to the time-period/event of the inviolable months). This understanding provides a logical, coherent and practical answer throughout, and helps answer some of the most difficult questions in Quran exegesis (e.g. 171-8, 1760, 4827, 2142-150).If you can find an article (written in English) that can provide a Quran-based answer that explains the above highlighted verses please share it here. If I think the attempt is reasonable you will be rewarded with $100. Or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case.
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Peace Wakas.
Can I ask the following question about what you say here,quote
" If I think the attempt is reasonable you will..."Question- How are you going to determine that the answers are"reasonable" unless you know for sure the "reasonable" answers?
Because to me, the word "I think" implies that you may have an idea/s but you may not do the answers justice unless your idea/s are "reasonable"/unbiased and true.
But I may be wrong. Please clarify.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace GL,
Good question but the answer is quite simple and it's been available for years. I have referred to my methodology multiple times
http//www.quran434.com/study-method.htmlIf you want it even simpler, the article would have to take into account the following
Quranic grammar, Quranic cross-reference, non-contradictory, logical, practical application, self-contained explanation. -
Thank you for clarifying Wakas.
In my experience ,this sounds straightforward, quote
"Quranic grammar, Quranic cross-reference, non-contradictory, logical, practical application, self-contained explanation."But with Qoran the majority aof the verses are notthat straightforwards.
Let me give an example
1242
وَقالَ لِلَّذى ظَنَّ أَنَّهُ ناجٍ مِنهُمَا اذكُرنى عِندَ رَبِّكَ فَأَنسىٰهُ الشَّيطٰنُ ذِكرَ رَبِّهِ فَلَبِثَ فِى السِّجنِ بِضعَ سِنينَ
He then said to the one to be saved "Remember me at your lord."* Thus, Satan caused him to forget Dhikra his Lord, and, consequently, he remained in prison a few more years.Does the word فَأَنسىٰهُ refers toJoseph or his friend the prisoner,? The Arabic grammar here is not straightforward
i.e wich one of them forgot "Dhikra Rabbihi".?
But I get your general point.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Dear brother, Wakas!
2240 is not present in your article. Please share what you think about مساجد, صوامع etc. in this ayah. How all nouns are related to TIME.Arabic
لَّهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَاتٌ وَمَسَاجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًاThanks & Peace!
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peace,
It is there. It is a 3 part series of articles
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-quran.html (2240 is covered here)
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html -
The $100 USD challenge
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html
If you can find an article (written in English) that can provide a Quran-based answer that explains the above highlighted verses please share it here. If I think the attempt is reasonable you will be rewarded with $100. Or you may opt for it to be donated to a charity of your choosing. Proof of donation will be provided in that case.
Increased to $200. Please search all the Quran based islam writers (in English) and find me an article, thanks.
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//Conclusion of parts 1, 2, 3
The Quranic evidence weighs the evidence in favour of SJD meaning "to submit/honour/pay respect", "masjid" meaning "time of SJD", "al masjid al haram" meaning "the inviolable time of SJD" (i.e. the term referring to the time-period/event of the inviolable months). This understanding provides a logical, coherent and practical answer throughout, and helps answer some of the most difficult questions in Quran exegesis (e.g. 171-8, 1760, 4827, 2142-150).//What does it mean or convey to the reader?
