If NO Iblees and NO Satan
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Peace all people...
What if no Iblis and Satan?
What would be the destiny of Human and Jin if Iblees didn't disobey God?
Would Allah still have sent us here on Earth?
Why among all only iblees fell apart? Was it our destiny... Why Allah gave iblees the respite in order for him to enter to our lives? What if even after he fell, if Allah not permit him respite..
Iblees is well aware of his past and with knowledge he misleads us.. But honestly speaking we've no hint of clue... Why we also are not given same memory of our past so we can all resist iblees and his gang...or why iblees and his gang are not visible so, we avoid their trick... Why iblees and his gang after us... What's wrong we did to iblees... Why iblees's anger on God reflects on us....Why are we trapped just coz of iblees's arrogance and for his challenge to respite till day of ressurection?.... Why do we deserve that?Or are we the culprits even before iblees's rejection? So, iblees was assigned with us for test....if we were offenders prior to iblees's advent... What was that we offended?
For our offence why we got another opportunity to redeem? Then why iblees was not given another chance for his offence? Were our offence minute so we are pardoned and given a golden opportunity...
Why iblees and rest of the malaika were ordered to submit to the already offended human?
Why malaika knew that we shed blood... So, did God created our soul with such nature then are we totally to blame ourselves...Why iblees is not afraid of hell fire while we are only verbally hearing when we read Quran but iblees was in the presence of God and, still neglected... Why he is so bold... Would we reject Allah if we were in such situation.. Or we in fact did... Or iblees took Allah so lightly so did we... Why Allah created well in advance the Earth even before iblees's rejection or Adam's fault... Why Adam's disobedient act hovering others... Why Allah doesn't state what we did wrong to put to test... What is it that every soul did to deserve worldly life...
What is it in fact we all did to deserve hell fire forever if we don't reform in our test... We don't reform ourselves means we are in same state of what we were before coming to this world... So human also adamant and arrogant as iblees so we took the path of iblees.... Why everything went unpleasant while Malika ever obedient... Did Allah plan everything intentionally or everything happened due to our and iblees's disobedience on which the Creator went unpleasant... So He put us in this destiny...
So all these billions and billions of people disobeyed before our life in earth do we are given a chance of reform.. But billions of people won't have full quota of life... For example when trumpet is blown billions of babies and young kids would have to say goodbye before they put to test... Why they were not given full life like us to reform or falter... Or God knew their fate... God knew our fate too.. But we are given full life... Those who are not given full life, were they worse souls than us who offended God in our life before the entry to world...
I don't ask anyone to answer all these questions ????? ...but have you believers have better thoughts if you also pondering such things.... -
Salam
I share a big part of your doubts, others I don't. In any case, I think we all do. Actually, I would add some more
"And he was/became from the kafirina". So, there were more kafirina back then? Iblis was not the first nor the only one at that moment
Why would God order the Angels to prostrate? Is Adam an idol to prostrate to?.
Why do we suppose Iblis and Saytan are the same?
Are we reading the passage about Adam´s presentation absolutely wrong? (why this red carpet premier-like for Adam?)
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Peace jkhan.
It is right to ponder all them questions and more..
You are also right in not expecting others to answer..
Like you, each individual needs to ponder these questions to search their past and plan their future. This is what the present-this life that we are living should be for. i.e to find our purpose!
Those who study Qoran need ponder/search/... a lot of verses about this subject. verses like
This verse I will call the most important, and I will say why at the end of the list77 فَلَنَقُصَّنَّ عَلَيهِم بِعِلمٍ وَما كُنّا غائِبينَ
Now the list of other verses1- 228 كَيفَ تَكفُرونَ بِاللَّهِ وَكُنتُم أَموٰتًا فَأَحيٰكُم ثُمَّ يُميتُكُم ثُمَّ يُحييكُم ثُمَّ إِلَيهِ تُرجَعونَ
وَلَقَد خَلَقنٰكُم ثُمَّ صَوَّرنٰكُم ثُمَّ قُلنا لِلمَلٰئِكَةِ اسجُدوا لِـٔادَمَ فَسَجَدوا إِلّا إِبليسَ لَم يَكُن مِنَ السّٰجِدي711-2
3- 735يٰبَنى ءادَمَ إِمّا يَأتِيَنَّكُم رُسُلٌ مِنكُم يَقُصّونَ عَلَيكُم ءايٰتى فَمَنِ اتَّقىٰ وَأَصلَحَ فَلا خَوفٌ عَلَيهِم وَلا هُم يَحزَنونَ
4- 7172 وَإِذ أَخَذَ رَبُّكَ مِن بَنى ءادَمَ مِن ظُهورِهِم ذُرِّيَّتَهُم وَأَشهَدَهُم عَلىٰ أَنفُسِهِم أَلَستُ بِرَبِّكُم قالوا بَلىٰ شَهِدنا أَن تَقولوا يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ إِنّا كُنّا عَن هٰذا غٰفِلينَ
5-7206 إِنَّ الَّذينَ عِندَ رَبِّكَ لا يَستَكبِرونَ عَن عِبادَتِهِ وَيُسَبِّحونَهُ وَلَهُ يَسجُدونَ6- 4522وَخَلَقَ اللَّهُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ بِالحَقِّ وَلِتُجزىٰ كُلُّ نَفسٍ بِما كَسَبَت وَهُم لا يُظلَمونَ
7- 4523 أَفَرَءَيتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلٰهَهُ هَوىٰهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلىٰ عِلمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلىٰ سَمعِهِ وَقَلبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلىٰ بَصَرِهِ غِشٰوَةً فَمَن يَهديهِ مِن بَعدِ اللَّهِ أَفَلا تَذَكَّرونَ
8- 4011 قالوا رَبَّنا أَمَتَّنَا اثنَتَينِ وَأَحيَيتَنَا اثنَتَينِ فَاعتَرَفنا بِذُنوبِنا فَهَل إِلىٰ خُروجٍ مِن سَبيلٍ
9-4305 أَفَنَضرِبُ عَنكُمُ الذِّكرَ صَفحًا أَن كُنتُم قَومًا مُسرِفينَ
...And so much more...I am certain GOD has told us everything we need to know about our purpose here.Tghis question of yours is key
Or are we the culprits even before iblees's rejection?
We can go backwords from where we are and see how far we can get? Then use Qoran to fill in the voids.
I am not saying I have the answers , I am saying I believe GOD and trust him to tell me later-what I cannot answer now- from what I have not recalled like
When did I exist before this life? How long? Why did I rebel against Him?...Who was Iblees? What was my relationship with him?
Why is this my last chance of redemption/ Why has Iblees completed all his chances?...I cannot give any excuses since I am clear ,now that I find myself human , how I should conduct myself and live this life. GOD s message has reached me.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam
I share a big part of your doubts, others I don't. In any case, I think we all do. Actually, I would add some more
"And he was/became from the kafirina". So, there were more kafirina back then? Iblis was not the first nor the only one at that moment
Why would God order the Angels to prostrate? Is Adam an idol to prostrate to?.
Why do we suppose Iblis and Saytan are the same?
Are we reading the passage about Adam´s presentation absolutely wrong? (why this red carpet premier-like for Adam?)
Salam Bikrum...
I am well aware all believers have questions... I don't know what you meant by DOUBTS... Coz doubt could be basically two types in my perception.. Known but not clear and doubt with misinformation... People to people it may vary...
But for me they are not doubts... I never doubt or consider what God has done ...with very minute knowledge i have been bestowed I cannot clarify what are the aspects of those questions... Simply saying NO CLEAR KNOWLEDGE from God...
For example God says Iblees is our enemy though we didn't take him our enemy in the first place... But God says take him so we will escape from his nasty deceptions.. It's a very good advice for all human and Jin for our betterment ... But why iblees should be given such status to be our enemy... Why all his powers being iblees are not withdrawn when he rejected God's order... Why he is coined with our lives.. God and iblees had the furious argument while Adam was innocent... Yeah we all know iblees didn't like us and never wanted to submit to us...purpose of submission could be to serve human probably... Allah Hs given freedom so iblees was kept as he was so unfortunately we have to tackle.. -
Peace... GL
Yes... Concerns are there when we are not given full picture of anything...
Good point you said..."" I am certain God has told us everthng we need to know.... ""
But probably it could be in QURAN that every individual need to explore in their own perception level... Coz it would be hard to accept another person's understanding while other has various questions... ... Perhaps we never find answers to some of our concerns life time... We are limited... But most of the orders and commands should not be individual perception but concerted one meaning....Okay... Let's continue the concerns... Iblees was asked to submit Adam and he didnt like and intended to deceive all generations of Adam... Why then he deceive other jins...? Jin is part of this world and they also will go to hell and heaven and they also take God reveled books to Human as guidance... Jin are not created by clay... Iblees answered God " you created me by fire while Adam is mean and created by clay.. " yes.. Something like that was iblees telling... Then why deceive Jin and why enemy to Jin as well... Or his enmity is on everyone...
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Is iblees the core of all scenario????
Were Earth and heavens exist when iblees was fallen apart? ..... Whatever stated In1851 why this crucial verse is placed soon after 1850 which talks about iblees and his rejection and his decendants.. God definitly took assistants in the creation process... I mean earth and heavens.. But iblees seems to be around when earth and heavens created but oblivious and not given the task by Allah intentionally .. But iblees was among all the malaika when asked to submit Adam who in future is destined to live on earth ... Would God have created earth and heavens in vain if Adam SUCCEEDED to follow God's order negating Satan's deception ... God promises that He created both Earth and heavens and whatever between them with purpose... So huge intention behind the creation...what is it?? After all we live in it and being put to test and everything will perish and God's purpose will be over and new Earth and heveans and life will continue... .. Just identify then purpose of Earth and heavens creations..
even iblees was well aware that Adam and his generation gonna live on earth in a given time period ... That's why he said I will make all of them to go astray ... he can't make go people astray while still enjoy jannah life...coz it isn't a place to boast while God is the absolute ruler there... so Earth suits.. And iblees spoke a keyword "TILL DAY OF RESSURECTION " yes.. He is well equipped with knowledge and info... That's why still these jins approach to listen to the elites in heaven..
For me somewhat, God and His Kingdom was peaceful till the outbreak of iblees exposing his true quality though living till that time as obedient with lip service ... But innerself was not obedient but not exposed... Iblees only gave one answer to God... But he must have had many more hidden reasons to be disobedient... One could be; coz he was not given a part in creation process while other chosen malaika did... After all he was exposed at the right time when Adam was created.. Beyond that iblees couldnt control his ego...Adam was kind of icon between God and malaika... It shows God was so kind to Adam.... Seems like God was so happy and proud in front of malaika after Adam is placed in between Malaika's presence are questioned and asked to submit... Clear prioritization.... But Allah sent Jins also to this world without any such icon as of Adam and submitting bla bla... Of course Jin were before human... For some specific unknown reasons Adam looked highlighted above all...
Or we Human souls never disobeyed God till physical Adam did? Remember after that Adam was pardoned... No pardoning for iblees... Adam dissapointed for disobeying God and was afraid and accepted God and begged for his mistake.. But entirely contrary to that was the act of iblees.. Never gave up his eccentric determined egocentric opinion..
So, probably coz of Adam's innocent approach, can we presume, we never did anything of offence while we were soul but it is only the plan of God to create earth and to make us live here and reward accordingly as a mammoth blessing..... Coz it is first time... Coz God doesn't have any other kingdom other than Earth and heavens. Isn't it.. Did he create anything other that? Does he Himself call it so. No.. He says the owner of Arsh.....Does He call Creator of Arsh? Not exactly...(don't ask me then who created Arsh?.. Allah exist so the place He lives exist) So humans and Jin who are living on earth is crucial.... Coz He created us.. That's His will and wanted us to obey and will be rewards in the end.... That's His plan as God... We came into being coz of His plan... And not coz of our disobeying apart from Adam's desire and Satan's trick..
So... Isn't the iblees the master of all issues.....?? Coz even iblees deny or not God has decided the creation of human but in between iblees came into the scenario... But can we still falter without iblees and his decendants... Can't we... ??? What about the verse " did you notice the one who took his own ego as god""In the story of Iblees and Adam God talks of Hell fire as well... ""I will fill hell with you (iblees) and those who follow you"" No hell then.. Right..coz not even Iblees is in hell till now from then onwards... . Hell is a future plan.. .. So God's kingdom was peaceful and God never punished anyone in fire.. Suddenly everything creeped up... Isn't the iblees behind all these???
Are we innocent as souls before being put to bodies? But are innerself innocent?? Iblees exposed... But we didn't... So, we are being tested to get exposed by shaking hands with iblees and his decendants.. I. E. Follow iblees...
Isn't Iblees first of the creatures to expose and deny God though others kept silence... -
If no satan then no point of life on earth.
We were conditioned to despise pain and love pleasure. Someone engineered us that way making it easy for us to choose the path of least resistance, of pleasure.Religions taught us among many things, to accept the pain with patience, to limit the pleasure and even to avoid some kinds of pleasures.
Why would religions that claim to be from our creator recommend us a way of life that is opposite to how our creator made us ? And here lies the purpose of life. To be able to say no to a temptation and to say yes to a discomfort breaks the enslavement, you have to be SOMEONE to be able to do that, you have learn to exist, to assert your being in life, to have a WILL that is alive.
Unlike just being mindlessly dragged by your own conditioning, just dragged, moved into actions and choices based on your love of pleasure and distaste of pain. It takes quite someone to say no, i'm not doing this because "I felt like doing it" but I'm doing this because I choose to, and no matter how I feel about it, I'm doing it. this is existence at its finest.So this conditioning is necessary for our development, it's like the heat on which food is cooked. To be faced with a temptation in a situation and to come out of it victorious, or to come out of it defeated. without this temptation factor that pushes you to wrong, we'd all be in the right, or at least the right will be easy for us. BUT this is it, the journey to righteousness is a journey filled with hardship, and this hardship changes us to the better, it is a necessary one. Just like the fruits on a tree that need to endure the seasons before they become ripe and ready for consumption.