Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha

Wakas

peace jkhan,

In your above post you asked 7 questions (i.e. question mark at end of sentence). I kindly ask you to come up with 10 questions and number them, then present them. Each question should contain one point/issue. As I mentioned before, please try and be clear and concise.

I was thinking if it's simply a matter of each of us listing 10 questions, then we respond, then summarising, I guess we could contain it in this thread. The original reason I suggested a separate thread (albeit linked from this one) was not to clutter this thread. I will work on my 10 questions and present them here shortly, GW.

Mohammed_

salaam all,

37105 “…Indeed like thus We reward the righteous/good-doers.”
I think the reward mentioned here is the call of approval/acknowledgement/appreciation from God (such a call from the creator itself is a great reward that lasts the whole lifetime).

This story reminds us, whatever thing that we have here is not ours -our life, happiness, partner, children, wealth etc. everything is only because of God.
Enjoy life without exceeding the limit. We should never forget what we are. And the creator is able, to give us much higher levels/means of satisfaction/happiness.

“The life of this world is not except the deceit's/temptation's enjoyment” -3185, 828, 632, 314, 477 etc.
Abraham knew this. He was a muslim.

Life is simple & interesting, for those who are certain about their creator.

Wakas

peace jkhan, all,

First set of 5 out of 10 questions

With regard to your understanding (which is similar to the common/traditional understanding)

what relevance, if any, is there for Quran to mention his son reached the age of striving/working with him?
when Abraham asks "...look what you see?" his son seems to automatically assume it is a command when he says "...do what you are commanded...". Do you agree? If not, please say why.
The future particle "sa" occurs over 100 times in Quran. Can you provide one example of usage which matches how you claim it is used here, i.e. what comes after particle "sa" refers to an ongoing future activity that occurs prior to what came before particle "sa"?
Let me clarify, here is structure of the Arabic ABC <future particle sa> XYZ
My view is XYZ occurs in the future, i.e. after ABC
Your view is XYZ occurs prior to ABC or XYZ occurs until ABC takes place.
Ref http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(3710221)
can you provide a classical arabic dictionary reference which states the meaning of the verb TLL can mean what you take it to mean and can be done in a gentle/soft/willing manner? i.e. without force.
Reason the primary meaning of this definition is to throw down / make one prostrate / hold down / wrestle them down etc , i.e. not willingly, but Quran states both submitted so the action was willingly, i.e. no force needed).
Ref http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=tll#(371033)
can you provide some examples elsewhere in Quran in which God rewards us/someone for what they were about to do but did not do.
Reason stating "like thus We reward..." implies an exemplar, if so, where are the other examples, or where such a principle is mentioned.

jkhan

Dear Brother Waqas….

Let me correct you about my personal belief and understanding compared with Conventional Belief…

This is my conventional understanding learned from society verbally and that was accepted in our society as of my knowledge…

But My Quranic Understanding is UTTERLY unique to above other than what is in actual fact written in Quran.. I anticipate you are transparent of my comprehension if you have time to read my threads in this very caption……It’s not similar… though I accept what Ibrahim attempted was to slaughter his son which resembles the conventional acceptance not coz they accept but that’s what I possess with my current knowledge (how many quranic meaning to date we resemble with conventional understanding, that’s harmless)..But there is big day light between my understanding and conventional concocted stories which have no apparent evidence in the verses of Quran…
Pls answer to my questions in my previous threads to answer your 05 set of queries out of 10 meaningfully…God Will! I respond to your questions asap.. Dear other members you are most welcome to give your thoughts and responses to Brother Waqas’s questions and it is not confined between me and Waqas…Pls be with Quran and your most up to date understanding merely… Aim is to clarify and to resort to grasp the ultimate very meaning of the verses…

I need clarification..and not confusion….

~~~~why need ambiguity while quran itself claim it is not ambiguous~~~~

Iyyaka

peace jkhan, all,

can you provide a classical arabic dictionary reference which states the meaning of the verb TLL can mean what you take it to mean and can be done in a gentle/soft/willing manner? i.e. without force.
Reason the primary meaning of this definition is to throw down / make one prostrate / hold down / wrestle them down etc , i.e. not willingly, but Quran states both submitted so the action was willingly, i.e. no force needed).
Ref http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=tll#(371033)

Salam Wakas and all,

Just NO (in red above).
you raise some points with which I agree but we will not understand this passage as long as the Muslims will believe that the root TLL, in its first and Semitic sense, means throw down / make one prostrate / wrestle them down etc. It is a lexical entry that aims to allow to stick to the official story.
I have already explained its meaning in other posts.

Peace

Wakas

peace jkhan, all,

In case I was not clear, let me clarify. I will not answer any of your questions unless they are numbered. Please bring your 10 strongest questions/objections, and I will bring mine, so readers can weigh up the evidence and make up their own minds.

Original article http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html

First 5 questions (out of 10) https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610747.msg426798#msg426798

can you provide another example in Quran wherein it states someone did X (e.g. perfect verb) but what is meant is they intended to do X.
Reason you take "...when they both had submitted..." in 37103 as submitted in intention only (i.e. not actually done the slaughter). Similar case with "...Surely you have believed/confirmed..." in 37105, i.e. technically they haven't confirmed it yet, i.e. it is intention only.
preposition "li" occurs over 2000 times in Quran. Please provide clear examples of it meaning "upon" as you take it to mean in 37103 (i.e. upon his forehead).

8.) please explain why Quran describes the sacrifice/dhibhin in 37107 as great/mighty/azeem?

If you consider killing of an innocent child an evil act and you consider God was simply testing Abraham but was always going to stop him before he actually did it, is there any other example similar to this in Quran (i.e. God commanding or condoning an evil act)?
how do you reconcile Moses objecting to the killing of an innocent boy whereas Abraham and his son did not?

jkhan

Peace Waqas… and the rest..

I wish, had you answered my questions though they are not numbered… But I won’t beg..As you prefer.. no compulsion.. Let me answer one by one in convenient time not to complicate anyone.. And this seems debate will go on…pls others participate....for the sake of clarification.. who knows to whom God has given the understanding pure and still keep silent..

QUESTION NO. 10 in fact 1874 is entirely a different scenario to what Abrahim and his son’s story presented in quran with much limited verses…

The boy which was killed by the companion of Mosa, God interpreted to us saying the boy will become a tyrant and will be a huge impact to parents in the future.. though it didn’t happen in reality though judge based on reality (i.e. what we did)… But God knows future and the character of each soul coz He is the Creator of even a soul…He knows to answer to that boy when resurrected..That’s God’s part..
But Ibrahim’s case Killing or sacrifice didn’t in fact take place, for Ibrahim to claim AFTERWARDS such as “why did I do this” etc etc.. Mosa said AFTERWARDS, I mean after killing the boy and not BEFORE…In addition to that, Abraham merely saw a dream and he himself interpreted literally and stepped into business.. But What Mosa saw was real incidents which Mosa needed further interpretation though he was eyewitness to all incidents..
Mosa’s anger and claim as pure human being within the frame of what he was taught by God through His book is absolutely fine… Coz no one is authorized to kill another human being unless to certain condition…But Mosa’s companion on that Journey knew extraordinary concealed aspects of current and future incidents which normally a messenger won’t possess… God claim he was a pure … 1865-66 “And they found a SERVANT from among Our SERVANTS to whom we had given MERCY from us and had taught him from Us a KNOWLEDGE. Moses said to him, "May I follow you on that you TEACH me from WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT of sound judgment?" unfortunately Musa was not given that knowledge..

So, the incredible person is purely taught by God and would act according to what he was taught… I prefer you compare this intelligent person with Prophet Yousuf… He was taught of interpretation… How many, we have no idea.. God explained only a few.. But we can assume he would have interpreted a many that’s why he was taught.. He can’t keep away when his people query about their dreams while he was given the authority and knowledge to do so…

In the same manner Mosa’s Companion or rather Teacher has been blessed and he was one of those Servants of many whom Allah merciful and taught knowledge(significant coz even Musa not given)…. So with his impeccable knowledge he did what he did, even to the extent of killing a boy who was innocent TO THAT POINT.. But being a Messenger whom even God directly spoke to did not know what Teacher knew.. So Mosa was limited… Why can’t we assume Ibrahim was limited with knowledge of future unless he was manifestly informed through an Angel Messenger… Then only He can take that as COMMAND… but this incredible person never waited for any command from God to kill in fact an innocent boy …He didn’t see dreams to act… He acted with what he was taught.. Not even asked the INNOCENT BOY or PARENTS like Abrahim asked his Son.. Do you see the difference…coz Ibrahim was confused…

jkhan

QUESTION NO. 09

0728 “ …." Say, "Indeed, Allah does not order IMMORALITY. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?"
422 “ …….. ……. Indeed, it was an immorality and HATEFUL and was EVIL AS A WAY.”

The reason I presented above random verses out of many to represent what in fact Allah doesn’t like … Allah doesn’t like Immorality, Hatful things, and Evil ways…
So, we can naturally deduce that Allah WOULDN’T COMMAND Evil, Immoral, Hateful act…… Killing a son is manifestly Evil, Immoral, Hateful act on anyone’s sight, unless for just reason …Dreams are from God according to Quran… don’t they… But are the dreams(words used Mana/Ru’ya) literal in any of those occasion? NO..refute with quranic support..(I explained in previous threads)
If in fact Allah doesn’t like evil and killing is obviously unethical, Then why did Allah show the dream which prompted Ibrahim to commit a disaster?..Is God Culprit or Ibrahim? Lets see.. we are human and no difference to Ibrahim as human other than his quality… so we see dreams… don’t we? Can we act upon it LITERALLY… No.. that’s suicidal and simply crazy… according to number of dreams I have seen in my life…if I act based on that with explicit or LITERAL picture of the dream… but who has power to show us dreams? Allah… But all dreams are not to be taken as part and parcel of our life to act upon it (no instruction from God). To act we have book/s God revealed and God gifted perception..But some dream/s may give you a sign, foretelling, and mostly would be untraceable without we take any action on them… Ibrahim would have seen many a dreams before and after this particular dream… would he have taken any action on them… simply like us…He was a human.. that’s what messengers said, “”we are human like you””… I wonder.. Most dreams we don’t even remember what we saw last night…
According to quran, None of those who saw the dream knew what was it till it was interpreted…None was even capable enough to interpret the kings dream except yousuf even though king questioned those who surrounded him..King didn’t ask all the dreams but only ONE…. None has capacity…though people interpret… no verification… it will be just blind acceptation (Coz it needs teaching from God, that makes huge difference).. but not in the case of Yousuf…He was taught…When ? probably when he was matured…He saw a dream when he was a kid… He didn’t know what was it only referring to his father, but he didn’t interpret anything to him… But Yousuf remembered the dream for his life time…. In the end Yousuf explained to his father when his dream came true after ages,… not the literal… So, his father being a prophet knew it from Yousuf (Specialist of Interpreting dreams)… looking at the numbers in dream (11 stars and sun and moon, even yousuf’s brothers would have guessed something had yousuf disclosed) but exact picture is given to Yousuf…

Ibrahim was instant and gullible..Problem with Ibrahim is coz he took it as COMMAND and LITERAL without any command from God while no dream is literal, and he discarded fact that God would never order IMMORAL / HATEFUL / EVIL acts….He took a dream real which needed to be put junk… (note Mosa being a Messenger (so did Ibrahim) said while the boy was killed and it was Evil, but Ibrahim forgot that killing is Evil and blinded and believed the dream in its literal aspect and attempted, contrasting difference)That is an advice to all believers that we can’t take dreams literally and apply to our lives hoping that God speaks to us… but still God indicates to us that God only has the power to show dreams and some dreams are meaningful if it is interpreted correctly(while God’s book/s are still being interpreted in various ways, how to interpret dreams)… No dreams are COMMANDS of God.. that’s the other advice by this story..
Further… God didn’t test Ibrahim with the dream itself… But Ibrahim took the dream and believed literal and attempted to implement and that became TEST on Ibrahim personally coz of his own decision at his own will…(Allah only showed the dream as he shows to anyone) And that is good advices to all believers not to take dreams literal and act upon it even you see any dreams (but act on interpretation is fine.. but whom to trust)… If we take dream literal and act upon it, then we would most probably go against quranic commands….
By the way…Brother Waqas…As you may aware,,, Innocent in our eyes and innocent in God’s vision is different (coz we see hardly only visible part but God sees invisible part as well)… In fact Ibrahim’s son (boy) was innocent to deserve it while outstandingly he was a pure servant of God…. On the other hand What Mosa’s teacher killed is innocent as well since he was a boy who never killed another… but he was not Pure servant of God and will not be in the future like Ibrahim’s son… That God’s invisible knowledge.. That’s why God kill babies and children in natural disaster…. Even prophet Nuh said, if you let them live, they will only beget evil bound 7127.. So being a messenger Prophet Nuh didn’t mind babies being killed and didn’t even wanted them to beget..Coz evil is written in their destiny..
So dear.. what Ibrahim tried to kill and what Teacher killed is completely different.. Ibrahim cannot do it and God won’t allow to do it, That’s why God stopped on the spot… Coz God had different plan with the one Ibrahim tried to kill in the future…. Ibrahim cannot change the future… Future known God won’t allow Ibrahim to kill coz his son was destined by His will to live in the future and become a Messenger.. That was God’s plan.. how come Ibrahim stop God’s plan…
While God’s plan for already slain boy is to be replaced by a pure person in the future.. how then Mosa stop him being killed just claiming how you kill an innocent …

If it is meant isolation of father and son as you claim in your understanding, and was a pure command from God, why God need the command to be sent through medium of Dream? What’s the big deal in it? Will Ibrahim not going to accept, if it was sent through a messenger and do the same set of proceedings before say farewell… in any case he would have done it and that also saying “I have been commanded”… what difference it makes for us as guidance being the message from Dream rather than other ways…. By Message being through dream make Ibrahim so special in accepting and doing it? After all, his son said, “do what you are commanded” So even the message came through a messenger, his son would have said the same… Then no need all of sudden a messenger to come from God while they surrendered and ready for the act and say “O! Ibrahim, you believed the dream”… instead “O! Ibrahim you followed the Command” Come on.. does it make sense.. Messengers receive loads of commands to implement… does God always react this way when they are about to implement and further say thus rewarded…

Wakas

I have now updated the article to include a link at the end with some test questions.

(and in case anyone wonders questions 11-14 are not relevant for jkhan's view, they cover other viewpoints)

jkhan

Peace..
Few additional comments for question No. 9... (for blue highlights).
Moses Mother reluctantly put Mosa in the river... To do that she received a revelation (Wahi). This was separation of Mother and infant son.. As a mother she would have taken the baby to forehead or whatever to the points she could... Needless to say about love of mothers...
Did Allah called out "O! Mother of Musa you followed our command" and thus we reward...
In my human nature what Mosa mother did was greater being suckling mother than Ibrahim did(if Ibrahim separated his son)..
Is Allah partial to admire Ibrahim while nothing is stated for Mosa mother... What Mosa mother did was mammoth risk... Is it coz she was a woman and not a Prophet.... Allah is just... Coz Ibrahim never separated his son by those verses but brutally attempted to slaughter...Allah only favored Ibrahim and delivered of disastrous slaughter

jkhan

Peace...
QUESTION NO. 08
i have responded in my previous thread 55 &57 .. Pls... Refer...
dhāl bā ḥā (ذ ب ح) in QURAN is always SLAUGHTER and it befit to 37107 as well easily ... Unless it doesn't befit we could have resorted to any other possible meaning... It is none other but SLAUGHTER... Not even SACRIFICE befit to any dhāl bā ḥā word in my perception .. So all slaughter... . Sacrifice is kind of conventional word it has only meaning with those who sacrifice animal to Aaliha(gods) etc etc with their INTENT (that convert a slaughter to sacrifice) .. Allah doesn't need sacrifice... If we slaughter that benefit for us... Allah orders to slaughter...We have no sacrifice but slaughter.... Had I used sacrifice only for the sake of argument....

jkhan

QUESTION NO. 07

Sahih translation.... 37102 " ...... .....He said, "O my father, DO (af'al) as you are commanded. You will find me, if Allah wills, of the STEADFAST."
37103 " And when they had both submitted and HE put HIM down upon HIS forehead,"
37104 " We called to HIM, "O Abraham,"

Note here the DOER is Ibrahim... His son requested Ibrahim to DO... Son will be at the receiving end.. otherwise son would have said "I would DO it as you commanded" if in fact son to leave ... Son cannot say father "do what you are commanded" while son is the one who has to execute what his father saw..
When son is not the DOER, son accepted to be patient/ STEADFAST letting the DOER to carry out his task without obstacles... If separation, then son needless to say patience coz without having patience you cant carry out long journey and loads of task (if Ibrahim intended his son to preach god's law- which dream never state)...
Note below.. dream itself is not complete for Ibrahim to carry out either slaughter or separation ...
37102 " ..... O my son, indeed I have seen in a dream that I sacrifice you...." sahih ..

Separate for WHOM / Slaughter for WHOM?
**Separate and send where? For what?
** slaughter and do what? Bury the body? Or eat the flesh?
Dream never said a word that it is "FOR ALLAH" ... clear confusion of Ibrahim..(note, Moses's mother instructed with complete picture, promising to return him and make him messenger) . Was his son a messenger to do that? Who will accept him if he was sent to a place other than his language ? If going to place spoken same language then not far.. Then why all drama? If he was already a grown man and a messenger then no need Ibrahim's dream.... His son clearly underaged...

Now.. We know, the DOER is Ibrahim and he is the older and father... If you take "as took to his forehead to say farewell" then most suited in both of them is Ibrahim... Coz that's reasonable and most of all Doer... Acting person is Ibrahim...
Even to slaughter, Ibrahim is the doer and he would have put his son on slautering position.... (whatever "li" applies)
Now doer is Ibrahim Remember.
Then suddenly in that posture God calls out...How?.. That's key..
""" We called out to HIM..".. Who is this him and why Him and then quote O! Ibrahim ? Coz Doer...
If separation son is the Doer... But God calls out the right person Doer who is Ibrahim before slaughter ...
If separation who in fact carried out the task? In fact son.. Coz Ibrahim just saw the dream.... But burden was on his son....
But if slaughter who carried out completely as he seen in dream? Ibrahim.. Only son was patient and surrendered enabling father to accomplish his dream ..
Then comes the next verse.. It was MANIFEST TRIAL...
If separation for the cause of Allah, how can that be a trial manifest? They both doing a great job... Not a trial manifest (mubeen) ..

Trial coz, Ibrahim took the wrong path....trial always when we are wrong if it was self conduct.. .... And trial only to Ibrahim coz his son was innocent and followed a Messenger's request by obeying him..
Ibrahim was REWARDED not coz he attempted to slaughter, coz of he was used to be a muhsinun (good doer).. Just coz Ibrahim got one thing wrong that also hoping that it was from God, how come God punish.... His reward was delivering his beloved son... Wasn't it a reward for a father? What could have been had he slaughtered ? To date all would be cursing him... Coz son was pure not a tyrant or destined disbeliever...
Mosa teacher we don't curse coz God speak the truth about boy...further God said it was INTENDED 1881.. so the teacher did what God intended....

jkhan

QUESTION NO. 06

Peace…
below blue highlighted waqas's comment and question....
can you provide another example in Quran wherein it states someone did X (e.g. perfect verb) but what is meant is they intended to do X.
Reason you take "...when they both had submitted..." in 37103 as submitted in INTENTION only (i.e. not actually done the slaughter). Similar case with "...Surely you have believed/confirmed..." in 37105, i.e. technically they HAVEN'T CONFIRMED it yet, i.e. it is intention only.

You have utterly messed up what INTENTION is &.. haven’t you?

For example … I saw while driving a matured person keeping his head on the rail track for suicide while train is getting closer… when the train approached so near someone suddenly pulled him out with his legs and saved his life which he never wanted…His intention was to die and if not for that brave young man he would have died on the spot… it doesn’t mean suicide person didn’t carry out his intention …Intention was carried out to its maximum but not the outcome…

So, Ibrahim saw the dream and took it as command… not actually a kind of his own intention but based on dream hoping it is from Allah as a command.. So he was about to carry out the INTENTION of God in his view..
Yes.. 37103 they both surrendered purely … (so it is perfect verb) they in fact did the (Aslama) surrendering part...
Then.. Ibrahim about to slaughter and no one would stop Ibrahim.. He carried out his dream…Didn’t he?
Now, who did in fact stop it from doing it? God… what He said? O! Ibrahim you believed the dream… Dear Waqas.. Believing part didn’t take place AFTER the SURRENDER but before Surrendering.. that’s why they surrendered and about to slaughter…
But, God comes in to picture later… When God said O! Ibrahim… suddenly Ibrahim would have stopped … then God says.. You believed the Dream… Did Ibrahim believe at that time while God said? No… no way..No chance..

Technically they have CONFIRMED everything in advance… Only God stopped it as a mercy and rewarded..

jkhan

Peace ……..

QUESTION NO. 05

Waqa's question and comments below in blue..
can you provide some examples elsewhere in Quran in which God rewards us/someone for what they were about to do but did not do.
Reason stating "like thus We reward..." implies an exemplar, if so, where are the other examples, or where such a principle is mentioned.

Are you sure, is that you who asked this question…I wonder what made you to pose such a weak query….Not expected from your standard as I know of you through your articles…

REWARDS are not for the particular act stated here (whether done or not done)…. Don’t you get that… “LIKE THUS WE REWARD THE GOOD DOERS” is in the same chapter few times… Just explain for what reason they were rewarded based on the story presented in quran? For example Moses, Nuh, etc etc…. No. No.. don’t complicate... REWARD is for sheer performance good things in the life and God knew they were Muhsinun and for that precise reason they were thus rewarded coz they were in total dilemma… Wasn’t Ibrahim a Good doer (Muhsinun) … He was always…. So delivered from nasty act he completely got wrong…

Examples you ask for “like thus We reward the Doer of Good” … okay note below.. 3780 (Nuh) … 37121 (Mosa, Harun) …. 37131 (Ilyaseen)

What they in general did or what they about to do but didn’t do to deserve by a statement by GOD saying soon after “like thus We reward the Doer of Good” ? Nothing …right? But they deserve in God’s vision coz they were pure human…

jkhan

Peace…

QUESTION NO. 04

below are Waqas's question and comments in blue..
can you provide a classical Arabic dictionary reference which states the meaning of the verb TLL can mean what you take it to mean and can be done in a gentle/soft/willing manner? i.e. without force.
Reason the primary meaning of this definition is to throw down / make one prostrate / hold down / wrestle them down etc , i.e. not willingly, but Quran states both submitted so the action was willingly, i.e. no force needed).

I am extremely sorry question No. 04 asking Dictionary reference… I don’t use dictionary, so I am unable to give you..(I beg you pardon).. I know, whoever translated would have used dictionaries in their support to give certain meaning…that’s enough for me plus pure quran..But I am not blind to accept as it is translated without verification with quranic flow and sheer meaning… it has worked out for me and continuing to do so…...
This word ( tā lām lām (ل ل ت) occurs once.. okay..but it has been translated referring dictionaries as put him down…or even take as throw down / make one prostrate / hold down / wrestle down…. Never mind.. just coz it occurs once in quran, I won’t panic….
Just look what is written in quran other than the particular word T L L… what is attached with TLL to give meaning.. what is the act to happen.. that’s important…..
Note they surrendered willingly … fine..… Surrendered for what? For slaughtering not for wandering…Once surrendered to slaughter it has to be done in its own/unique manner…no kindness can creep in while you are about to slaughter anything (coz life like us)… then you won’t be able to do… Honestly I cannot slaughter even a tiny animal… Why God says… when they are to whisk/lash the culprits not to have pity….with such atmosphere job cannot be done…
We know Ibrahim is kind (incredibly) and most of all that was his son… But,… somehow he controlled his mind to do the slaughtering … If he can come up to the slaughtering point, why can’t he throw his son down to further proceed? Is throwing down is mighty or slaughtering? How he would carry on slaughtering if he can’t even first throw him down…. Ibrahim adjusted clearly his mind…
Further… why he threw him down… probably his son’s face was covered (usual way of human slaughter) and he was unable to see where to keep his head on his own…Or though his was patient and surrendered still afraid to face… Slaughtering will take place in slaughtering manner… with kindness cannot execute..it doesn’t mean they don’t have kindness.. I never said gentle / soft willing manner as you claim ….

Wakas

peace jkhan,

Can you clarify if you replied to the correct question in your "Question 7" comment above?

preposition "li" occurs over 2000 times in Quran. Please provide clear examples of it meaning "upon" as you take it to mean in 37103 (i.e. upon his forehead).

It is better to quote the question then reply, as you started to do recently, so it is clearer and easier to follow.

jkhan

peace jkhan,

Can you clarify if you replied to the correct question in your "Question 7" comment above?

It is better to quote the question then reply, as you started to do recently, so it is clearer and easier to follow.

Cope with my answers... I don't have answers beyond that for the question..
Let others decide at their own will what could've been story... I will come up with answers to your other questions within this weekend...

jkhan

QUESTION NO. 02

I added the question on top is to coz people won’t have that much of time to go back to each page to see what actually the questions are… unless they are so curious of those..

below Waqas's question and comments..

when Abraham asks "...look what you see?" his son seems to automatically assume it is a command when he says "...do what you are commanded...". Do you agree? If not, please say why.

Look brother… Keep in mind the truth…the truth is Ibrahim never said it was a COMMAND or rather “I have been COMMANDED by GOD to Slaughter you”…… and DREAM never stated it was a COMMAND… only person who used the word COMMAND was Ibrahim’s son….Why did he use it meticulously? .. He knew as a believer we are to follow commands of God being the slaves of God.. if we deny, then we are to blame ourselves..Ibrahim was a messenger but not his son to that point… So, his son needs to obey what Messenger says as a believer … coz “obeying the Messenger is obeying the God”..
But his son used a very important word(COMMAND) which ibrahim couldn’t grasp by the dream and never verified how he previously got commands (look what you see itself a confused statement like having a suggestion to God’s command) or what is the normal medium of getting commands from God.. By saying DO what you are COMMANDED is clearly an indication only the COMMAND his son was surrendering not the DREAM or IBRAHIM as person on the matters of God..…Who will command a Messenger? God.. so his son didn’t use the word to the phrase Do what you are commanded BY GOD.. Messenger should verify before presenting to the public and messenger cannot lie and should not… Suppose… Prophet receives a message.. He should verify what actually the message is and how to present it and how it came to him..(simply thoroughly understand the message and present).. Needless for son to verify coz he was a messenger ordering him (if his son pose question after question, then he is transgressing same as people of musa on the order of God before slaughter a cow)… like the true people as quran points out.. “We hear we obey”… but we don’t have to do the part of “we hear we obey” coz we don’t hear it from the Messenger, God assigned to take it AS IT IS…We are bound to verify everything, even the quran and it’s verses… Coz we have no clue unless we verify…No living Messenger who take speech of God directly and present..

That’s why his son naturally assumed it was a COMMAND… but Ibrahim didn’t verify and failed … A Messenger failing is whole community failing…That failure had to bear by his innocent son who trusted the Messenger… But, God delivered him… it would have been a very good profound advice and trial for Ibrahim in his life time not to take dreams as literal and command of God since God never authorized.... God talks in three mediums only to any human being 4251 (unless God talk, how a command can be released to human? If not in those three mediums, then how God talk? Do you say about God what you do not know, while God emphasizes that he talks only in three ways.. Whatever the other mediums are not speech / talk of God..but signs…..Signs are not command…)

jkhan

QUESTION NO. 01

Below Waqas's question..
what relevance, if any, is there for Quran to mention his son reached the age of striving/working with him?

Don’t your dictionary reference/s giving the above meaning… I don’t think anything wrong in it any normal sense… with flow of previous verses..further after God telling that he was given a good news of a child when Ibrahim requested of saliheen and then starts this verse..37102..
No issues for me the translation..

jkhan

QUESTION NO. 03

The future particle "sa" occurs over 100 times in Quran. Can you provide one example of usage which matches how you claim it is used here, i.e. what comes after particle "sa" refers to an ongoing future activity that occurs prior to what came before particle "sa"?
Let me clarify, here is structure of the Arabic ABC <future particle sa> XYZ
My view is XYZ occurs in the future, i.e. after ABC
Your view is XYZ occurs prior to ABC or XYZ occurs until ABC takes place.
Ref http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(3710221)

Compare this verse with subject verse..

2827 “He said, "Indeed, I wish to wed you one of these, my two daughters, on that you serve me for eight years; but if you complete ten, it will be from you. And I do not wish to put you in difficulty. YOU WILL FIND ME (sa-tajidu-nī,) if Allah wills, of the righteous (Saliheen)."

37102 " …… He said, "O my father, do as you are commanded. YOU WILL FIND ME (sa-tajidu-nī,), if Allah wills, of the steadfast (Sabirieen)."

I hope my clarification and answers matches to what is written in 37102…