The Mark on their Forehead

unknownuser

I calculated that for Muslims who perform ritual prayer, over their life time will have hit their forehead on the ground over 400,000 times. (based on 70yr life span)

Idris

peace be upon you albion,

I calculated that for Muslims who perform ritual prayer, over their life time will have hit their forehead on the ground over 400,000 times. (based on 70yr life span)

which brings the good possibility that the ahadith for the sunnah ritual prayer were probably invented before the rest of the ahadith based on the lack of common sense that it took to make such ahadith, a lack of brain cells could be a good reason for the stupidity that fills much of Bukhari

p.s.-jesus physically prostrated according to the gospels and a major problem is that you can conform the revelations prophecies to many religions, nations, creeds, etc. the problem is if you decide they are "the beast" before you even take an objective look at the conformity between their behavior and the prophecies

truth

I calculated that for Muslims who perform ritual prayer, over their life time will have hit their forehead on the ground over 400,000 times. (based on 70yr life span)

That's great vincentia.

It's just that these fabricated marks appear on the foreheads of 20 something males.

And if you want to know how some of those marks are made... here's a few pictorial clues given that you quite enjoy pics these days...

http//www.powerlineblog.com/archives/Shiite.jpg

http//www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/images/iraq-shiite-muslims.jpg

http//www.israeluniverse.com/images/Shiite-Muslims.jpg

Does it remind you of 'passion' of the Christ? Does it remind you of stigmata? The group "Opus Dei" the catholic personal prelature of the pope is big on this sort of blood letting known as corporal mortification.

http//www.acidigital.com/passion/images/passion-foto21.jpg

truth

Funny how the same things appeal to the misguided followers of all man made religions.

Here are some christian flagellations and crucifixions...

http//www.wildcat.co.uk/community/modules/4nAlbum/album/rituals/flag/flag_2.jpg

http//pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_sfp_skinny_guy_back_scoring.jpg

http//pages.zdnet.com/asiabill/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t_sfp_skinny_guy_beaten.jpg

http//www.wildcat.co.uk/community/modules/4nAlbum/album/rituals/cruc/cruc_3.jpg

http//www.wildcat.co.uk/community/modules/4nAlbum/album/rituals/cruc/cruc_4.jpg

Would you believe that these 'celebrations' are from some sort of vegetarian ?hindu/buddhist ?taoist group...

http//www.wildcat.co.uk/community/modules/4nAlbum/album/rituals/vege/vege_14.jpg

and finally to get back on the topic of marks on the forehead. This group seems to like them too...

http//www.wildcat.co.uk/community/modules/4nAlbum/album/rituals/vege/vege_11.jpg

unknownuser

which brings the good possibility that the ahadith for the sunnah ritual prayer were probably invented before the rest of the ahadith based on the lack of common sense that it took to make such ahadith, a lack of brain cells could be a good reason for the stupidity that fills much of Bukhari

Yes but still the fact remains that about 90% of muslims are sunni and do perform ritual prayer and hit their foreheads on the ground hundreds of thousands of times during their lifetime.

?When you pray, do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by their many words they will be heard. Do not be like them, for God knows what you need before you ask him?

The ritual pray of sunni's is the same as the Gentiles prayed in that verse, they repetitiously babbled the same words over and over in a ritual manner.

p.s.-jesus physically prostrated according to the gospels

Jesus humbled himself but he didn't pray in a ritual way, sometimes he prayed standing up with his head lifted towards the heaven, sometimes he prayed with his head bowed, sometimes prostated

God is everywhere, not in any special direction or place, and hitting your forehead on the ground serves no purpose other then to Mark your forehead

and a major problem is that you can conform the revelations prophecies to many religions, nations, creeds,

Not when all the points in that prophecy are combined

1.. the false prophet that wrought miracles ( the quran)

2.. with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast (quarn 4829)

3.. Shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God (The trickster changed this to "Drink from Rivers of Wine in Heaven")

4.. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus
Its common knowledge that Muslims do this not only in terrorist acts but beheading is the capital punishment used in many muslims countries i.e Saudi Arabic etc.

Yes one of these points alone may conform to other cultures and religions but when all are combined it only fits one religion

the problem is if you decide they are "the beast" before you even take an objective look at the conformity between their behavior and the prophecies

The Beast is in not one group of people. The Beasts is the one who deceived the false prophet and the followers of this false prophet. In other words The Beast (Trickster) convinced the false Prophet and his followers that he was a spirit from God.

Idris

1.. the false prophet that wrought miracles ( the quran)

the reading is only one "miracle", as I call "sign", what other "miracle(s)" did the prophet bring that would fulfill the prophecy as a plurality in regards to miracles

2.. with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast (quarn 4829)

the mark of the beast is on the forehead, even if you suscribed to a literal interpretation the ayah, it speaks on the face not the forehead

3.. Shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God (The trickster changed this to "Drink from Rivers of Wine in Heaven")

the thing is the revelations speaks about drinking the wine on judgment day, the reading talks about drinking the wine in the garden (al jannah) which causes no intoxication and as luxury, I take a metaphorical view of this though as I do all of the attributes of the garden (al jannah) in fact it describes some of the concealers (kafir) on the obligation/judgment day as seeming drunk though they are not drunk 222, thus I think this and the revelations verse is a metaphor describing a similar brain numbing effect God's retribution brings

4.. and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus
Its common knowledge that Muslims do this not only in terrorist acts but beheading is the capital punishment used in many muslims countries i.e Saudi Arabic etc.

other countries behead, beheading has been a common capital punishment act in many countries and empires for a long time, plus what does it mean "for the witness of Jesus"

The Beast is in not one group of people. The Beasts is the one who deceived the false prophet and the followers of this false prophet. In other words The Beast (Trickster) convinced the false Prophet and his followers that he was a spirit from God.

"Paul" fits this description very well wink

unknownuser

Here are two more verses

812- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

474- Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives

Those two verses also match the prophecy in revelation about the followers of the false prophet

"And judgment was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus , and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads " (Revelation 204)

unknownuser

blah blah blah blah blah

http//www.cafemo.com/img/yawn.gif

what i find more interresting is your choice of name albion.

Albion
Pronunciation Key

Albion , ancient and literary name of Britain. It is usually restricted to England and is perhaps derived from the Latin albus meaning ?white,? referring to the chalk cliffs of S England.

why is it that you want to be associeted with this guy?

http//members.lycos.co.uk/oldalbion/cerne.jpg

are you indirectly telling us something about your true nature?

unknownuser

And why is it that you do not reveal all there is to it, that they will be given a mark on their hands aswell.

heres the whole verse, not bend to suit "white cave mans" need.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

unknownuser

the mark of the beast is on the forehead, even if you suscribed to a literal interpretation the ayah, it speaks on the face not the forehead

Yes and the forehead is on the face plus the forehead that is marked everytime they hit their head on the ground. (literal or symbolic)

3.. Shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God (The trickster changed this to "Drink from Rivers of Wine in Heaven")

Both verses are talking about judgement day and both are metaphors. The point is one is talking about punishment for the followers of the false prophet, but the twickster who deceived the false prophet has turned this around and made it part of the reward for the followers of those he deceived

other countries behead, beheading has been a common capital punishment act in many countries and empires for a long time

Yes thats true and I said that myself in my post, but the prophecy is in regard the a False Prophet and the followers of this false prophet (i.e a religion) not a country. But when we talk about Muslim countries we are also talking about the religion because Isalm doesn't seperate church from state.

plus what does it mean "for the witness of Jesus"

"and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God"

Its talking about two different groups of souls that were beheaded

1.. for the witness of Jesus
This first group is christians who were beheaded

2.. and for the word of God
The second group are those who believe in God and were beheaded (i.e jews and all others)

474- Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, strike off their heads....

unknownuser

I asked this question earlier in the thread but so far no one has answered the question.

How can muslims be sure that the spirit (Gabriel) who spoke to muhammad, was in fact Gabriel and not a trickster sprit ?

1 John 41 Believe not every spirit,but try the spirits whether they are of God

Mark 1322 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

1 Cor 1437 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Isa 820 To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Combine this with the prophecy in the earlier scripture about the beast (Satan) and the false prophet who will deceive his followers who will have the make on their forehead (sura 4829) and who will "taste the wine of Gods wrath (vs quran.. Drink from rivers of wine in heaven ).

And the be-headed victoms of the follows of the false prophet will bear witness at the time of judgement.

And judgment was given unto them and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads (Revelation 204)

Nural_Amin

Peace Albion,

Very interesting post

1.. The Mark on the face wether it be a physical Mark (sign) or a symbolic Mark..

Islam is the only religion where the followers touch the ground with their foreheads many times a day as a ritual act of praying

Firstly you are talking about the followers of hadith, not ALL Quran alone followers touch the ground with their heads, besides Jewish sects also prostrate and buddhists sects and many others.

2.. The reference that a FALSE prophet has lead these people astray and has deceived them..

This is indicating that the beast (The trickster) will use a false prophet to deceive many. Muslims have know way of knowing for sure that the spirit who revealed the revelations to Muhammad was in fact from God. Muhammad only had the sayso of this spirit himself. A trickster could come in any form and say he was from God in an attempt to deceive.

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world"

The false prophet you speak of is maybe the one fabricated by the HADITH WRITERS and the enemies of the prophet. If the Quran was false the it would have been beaten by truth long ago, where is your logic? Does it take 1400 years to beat falsehood? Hadith was recognised as falsehood immediately by many not just recently just like the corruption in other religions are recognised by the faithful and righteous.

3.. This Prophet wrought miracles before him.

The quran itself is regarded as a Miracle by muslims

Mohammed had no miracles, your point is talking about miracles in plural, and your reference to the Beast is as silly as the hadith claims of such a creature, as far as Quran students are concerned that is of no importance because this is not a prophecy we give significance to. The Quran is claimed to be the Word of GOD and if it is Muhammed's miracle then it is just one and not many.

4.. The reference that the followers of the false prophet will BEHEAD people ..

At the time this prophecy was revealed the common method for killing people was crucifixion... Beheading became a favourite method for muslims to kill people both in the past and also in recent times

Well in the middle ages many were beheaded in the west! It's not only a 'muslim' practice! Besides again you are talking about followers of hadith and not the Quran, your aim is probably to defame the Quran but you have weak points and you are doing a good job of exposing those who only 'claim' to follow the book but follow the false prophet portrayed in hadiths.

5.. The reference that they SHALL drink of wine at the time of judgement..

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God

Islam is the only religion that says the followers of Islam will DRINK FROM RIVERS OF WINE in heaven. Again a trickster playing tricks

This is not at the time of judgement but in heaven.

We can tell the followers of a false prophet by their conduct.

True, falsehood is clear. The corruption in the islamic world today and the deviation from Quran is clear. These are well established points albion, but thanks for your reminder.

Peace

Nural

Fahad1

I asked this question earlier in the thread but so far no one has answered the question.

How can muslims be sure that the spirit (Gabriel) who spoke to muhammad, was in fact Gabriel and not a trickster sprit ?

peace albion.
what in the koran makes u think that it is the work of some "trickster spirit" ? what do u think was the spirit trying to trick muhammad into ?

unknownuser

Well in the middle ages many were beheaded in the west! It's not only a 'muslim' practice!

We are talking about a false prophet and the followers of that false prophet (i.e A Religion). Islam is the ONLY Religion that has in its scripture that God commands the beheading of people. And many christian and jews and other believers in God (muslims who are victoms of Islam) were and still are killed by Islam in this way.

Besides again you are talking about followers of hadith and not the Quran,

No I quoted from the quran not the hadith.

812- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

474- Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives

unknownuser

Salaams ,

something in the bible - i think,(of all places) ,but made sense.

"?When you pray, do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles/ignorants, because they think that by their many words they will be heard. Do not be like them, for God knows what you need before you ask him?

Would like to see if there was something, like this ,to this degree in the quran -if anyone here knows?-Thanks.

God Bless.

TAJ

Salaams MZ,

Salaams ,

something in the bible - i think,(of all places) ,but made sense.

"?When you pray, do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles/ignorants, because they think that by their many words they will be heard. Do not be like them, for God knows what you need before you ask him?

Would like to see if there was something, like this ,to this degree in the quran -if anyone here knows?-Thanks.

God Bless.

You can check the following Ayat

unknownuser

I asked this question earlier in the thread but so far no one has answered the question. If muslims are so convinced that the quran is the word of God, they must have some criteria to come to that conclusion.

Muhammad said Gabriel spoke to him and gave him the revelations. Firstly what proof did Gabriel give Muhammad that he was in fact Gabriel and not a trickster spirit.

The scripture gives many revelations on how to test a spirit if it is, or is not from God. There are also many verses on how to test for a false prophet.

It is very convenient that those verses have been left of the quran