Muhammad not mentioned in the Koran...
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Peace
Apple Pie
Very few Muslims would be able to relate with a people who can make 3 equal 1, and somehow logically comfort themselves that it makes sense. You also have not responded to the numerous contradictions in the Bible that was already presented, neither have any other Christians that I have met.Let me ask you this question
What is the theme of this thread?..?
If you want to stray from the theme of the thread, then please have the courtesy to start a dedicated thread with your insecurities?
From another thread...
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2278Well?then please explain why Jesus is worshiped as God Almighty in Sura 86?
Where in the Bible is there a chapter 86? We are talking about the Bible right or did I start speaking about some other book in some post of mine in this thread?
roll
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tux,
one's history/pattern of method in interpreting sacred texts is entirely relevant to this thread. i have pointed out the pattern for apple pie and how such tactics damage any credibility he may have had.
Dont try to put the cart before the horse in hopes of hiding the fact that the horse is lame and dying. Before making radical interpretations in the Quran, one must clear the contradictions in their own scripture and own up to hypocritical techniques.
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Greetings shuaib,
Thanks for your reply?
unfortunately for you apple pie, i dont think the Muslims here are oblivious to how you repeatedly ignore the remarks made to you.
Most respect the thread theme?
Though you simply pass it off as being off the topic, the point is that Muslims are not going to listen to a person who makes their OWN scripture sound nonsensical, and who cannot respond to obvious contradictions within their own scripture.
I let each person decide for themselves?
It's obvious that you are playing the same games with the Quran, on the one hand claiming Muhammad doesn't mean prophet because it's not listed in Lane's, and then turning around and claiming at-Tariq means Jesus though Lane makes NO mention of this. Having your cake and eating it too... 3 equaling one. 3 days and 3 nights equaling 1 dayand 2 nights... God equaling the devil... this is a pattern, and this is why your message will be unsuccessful here.
Once again?..you know which threads to go to if you desire dialogue in those areas?
Thanks?
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Apple Pie, again you seem to ignore the fact that your credibility has everything to do with this topic.
If you run away from the other points then at LEAST do not run away from THIS point, which you yourself have made in THIS THREAD.
You claimed that since Lane's does not mention Muhammad being a prophet, therefore those verses that were given to you IN THIS THREAD, you claimed, IN THIS THREAD, did not refer to the Prophet.
YET, we know from your previous arguments (yes in another thread) that when it suits you, you take meanings NOT given in Lane's, like LOCUSTS for jinn and JESUS for tariq.
This is hypocrasy, a kind which obliterates your credibility, and THAT is entirely relevant to this thread.
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Greetings shuaib,
Thanks for your reply?
Apple Pie, again you seem to ignore the fact that your credibility has everything to do with this topic.
This is hypocrasy, a kind which obliterates your credibility, and THAT is entirely relevant to this thread.
Sounds to me like the last bastion of a bankrupt argument?.from an individual who has no other recourse? wink
If you run away from the other points then at LEAST do not run away from THIS point, which you yourself have made in THIS THREAD.
You claimed that since Lane's does not mention Muhammad being a prophet, therefore those verses that were given to you IN THIS THREAD, you claimed, IN THIS THREAD, did not refer to the Prophet.
YET, we know from your previous arguments (yes in another thread) that when it suits you, you take meanings NOT given in Lane's, like LOCUSTS for jinn and JESUS for tariq.
First of all, thanks for acknowledging Lane?s authority in the definition that I posted?.not that you would (or could) challenge it, anyway?
Secondly, if you were confident in your position, then you would have already specifically and directly challenged the Lexical definitions and context of the ayahs under exegesis?
As it is, you would rather stall for time and not accept my offer to dialogue specifically on those areas that you are troubling you so much.
Step up to the plate?
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apple pie, why is it so hard for you to answer a simple allegation.
Why do you adhere to Lane's when it suits you, and then diverge from Lane's when it suits you?
(ps. there is no more proof needed to refute your claims, it's already been presented by others. I am now merely deconstructing/exposing your logic and methods)
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Greetings Ali Omar,
Thanks for your reply?
Forgive me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that you make a distinction between ?Prophets? and ?Messengers??
If that is the case, please elaborate.
?Messengers?, in the Koran, can refer to many things, including the angels.
Thus, if Islam?s ?prophet? were directly mentioned, then you would expect for clear verification and an assignment of ?prophethood? to that individual.
As it is?.nowhere in the entire Koran does it make this claim?..which is rather odd considering that Muslims revere an individual that has a most dubious ?description? within their book of faith.
This all points to yet another fictitious emanation from the Islamic machine that is not supported by their book of faith?
Thanks?
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Greetings Ali Omar,
Thanks for your reply?
If you don?t mind, I would like to know what do you consider to be the qualities of a Messenger and what do you consider to be the qualities of a Prophet.
The qualities of each is determined by the context in which it is used.
Do you have a specific example that you are thinking about??
Thanks?
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is it just me or is it impossible to get a straight answer out of this guy, even for a simple definition?
No, it's not just you. As I have experienced myself, Apple Pie is an unfair debater who likes to sidetrack people into debating other stuff and shifting goalposts.
Everybody here can see that Apple Pie's exegesis has nonexistent credibility. Apple Pie is not going to convince anybody into being a Jesus idolizer here by doing so.
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Dear Apple Pie,
As I understand that you have a very good understanding of the matter at hand, and therefore most probably have worked through examples from various contexts, I would appreciate it very much if you would be so kind as to enlighten me further, by giving me one of your examples.
Regds,
Ali Omar
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Greetings Ali Omar,
I think that a prime example was just covered here?
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45271#45271
Thanks?
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Peace be upon you Apple Pie,
First of all, yes, the Koran is indeed 99% rehashed and retranslated Biblical material.
This is unimpeachable.
Secondly, do you even understand what the Holy Bible is?.? Besides being the main source for the Koran?
The Holy Bible is rehashed fromn the books of ancient Kemet(Egypt), filled with "ressurections" and "virgin births", etc. The story of Moses is the story of Gilgimesh.
This reading(quran) states that it is a CONFIRMATION of what came before it.
Actually , I'll probably start another thread for this.
Regarding "muhammad". its not a person in history, all of these stories are pointing to all of us, to our lives and spiritual processes. Thats what all the "religious books" intend. Yet those who join SECTS want to fight and argue about "my book is the best", "your book is a copy", etc. Why not focus on tyhe messsages they all contain, because to argue about quran being a copy of bible is foolish when the bible can be attacked just as easily.
be SECT free and concentrate on the message of Peace and Unity, that would be best.
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Greeting idolfree1,
Thanks for your reply?
Peace be upon you Apple Pie,
Quote
First of all, yes, the Koran is indeed 99% rehashed and retranslated Biblical material.This is unimpeachable.
Secondly, do you even understand what the Holy Bible is?.? Besides being the main source for the Koran?
The Holy Bible is rehashed fromn the books of ancient Kemet(Egypt), filled with "ressurections" and "virgin births", etc. The story of Moses is the story of Gilgimesh.
Start a thread with your assertions?
This reading(quran) states that it is a CONFIRMATION of what came before it.
Then you will have no problem with it confirming that Jesus is God Almighty?
Actually , I'll probably start another thread for this.
Regarding "muhammad". its not a person in history, all of these stories are pointing to all of us, to our lives and spiritual processes. Thats what all the "religious books" intend. Yet those who join SECTS want to fight and argue about "my book is the best", "your book is a copy", etc. Why not focus on tyhe messsages they all contain, because to argue about quran being a copy of bible is foolish when the bible can be attacked just as easily.
The authors who penned the Koranic text (as we know it today) proclaimed hundreds of times that they merely copied and collected the previous Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Muslims will deny this until they are blue in the face?
be SECT free and concentrate on the message of Peace and Unity, that would be best.
Then let?s both concentrate on the FACT that both of our Holy Books proclaim that Jesus is God Almighty?
Thanks?
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Salaam Apple,
Then let?s both concentrate on the FACT that both of our Holy Books proclaim that Jesus is God Almighty?
The Bible does not. I've been waiting for months for you to respond to my thread in the Christianity section. Will you head over there that we may discuss this? Jesus is the servant. Besides that you are making "God" a personal name when it is not such a thing in the Bible.
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
Joe
P.S. Don't respond to me here. Go to the thread in the Christianity section.
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Been there...done that....Joe... wink
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Dear Apple Pie,
Forgive me for being slow to catch on, but in the link you suggested I do not find any qualities of a prophet.
I am very sorry to trouble you again, but would you please be so kind as to clarify the last part of my question
What do you consider to be the qualities of a Messenger and what do you consider to be the qualities of a Prophet.
As I understand this must be linked to a context, could you also please give me an example?
Regds,
Ali Omar