Does ALREADY KNOW if we're going to Heaven/ Hell...
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Bro, why so negative?
A very good question.
As Muslims, we are supposed to support one another, not constantly bring about negativity like some battle of the ego.
You've found the answer yourselves. bravo
Amazing.. question and answered within a thread. by yourself bravoBecause your question has disturbed / threatened egos.
Egos are reactive, it scan the environment and when being triggered will act to 'neutralize' the threat. The goal of ego is 'survival', survival of anything that the ego has attached/focus/identify itself to. Thus 'winning', 'superiority' are it's tactical objective to ensure survival.Yet nonetheless, you can also derived lesson for your benefit from your interactions with negatives.
A lesson to recognize your own ego (as it being triggered) and how to unattached yourselves from your own ego.Not an easy feat to achieve, it takes practices, thus be grateful to those who gives you 'negativity' as they're great trainers for your exercise.
It's the ego that actually view itself being separated from others.. thus also drive the need to be 'superior', 'winning' when compared to others.. Who are actually doing the comparing? It's also the ego... -
if God can stop the injustice in the blink of an eye, why is God angry over it if God chose to bring it into existence and has predestined it and has power over all things? God wrote the script, He created it.
Think of a master painter who has full control to paint the most ugly or the most beautiful portraits. He paints an ugly image for the sake of carrying out a purpose, although he despises what he drew. Ultimately, Allah has predestined everything, the good and the bad, which serves the purpose of glorifying Him.
571
Glorifying God is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Noble, the Wise. -
'Even it doesn't befit.. I spoke with my understanding of Quran... But you speak with doubts Coz you have questions more than anyone... Some questions people have answered and you don't reply but you repeat.. That's pathetic... I don't won't pinpoint them what they are ...'
Yes it seems I have questions more than everybody else because I don't mind asking since I do not think of myself as a scholar or like I know more than everybody else. Just because you have less questions, doesn't make you better than me. And I know for a fact that you have unrealised questions too. How?Because there are 1000s of topics and sub-topics when it comes to the Qur'an and Islam and nobody including you will have all the answers. So you have many questions too, you just don't realise it. To pretend that you don't have many questions doesn't make you look smarter than everyone else, it makes you look arrogant.
Of course I don't reply to everyone simply because it would take forever. A person doesn't need to reply to every answer. That being said, I do appreciate the answers I get.
Anyway, I had enough of talking to you so let's just end this argument here because it's not nice and a waste of time.
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Nothing wrong in asking questions in order to make sense of things. If your intention is honest and unbiased toward the things you love or wish for and unbiased against the things you dislike or do not wish for, and you're doing your best and using the tools God gave you to make sense of things and distinguish between right and wrong. How can you fear that you may be misguided ?
And how can anyone fear for others that they may misguide themselves ? Each is responsible of their life.
" God guides whom he wills" it's not arbitrary. God's willingness is not arbitrary. For God to will to guide someone what does that someone need to do ? Doesn't God have the best judgement, since God has the perfect understanding ?
Now back to the topic,
About God getting angry. I already gave my understanding of it. I think those who confidently say God gets angry should try to answer your question instead of running away -
What constitute 'heaven' might be different to each perspective.
For some, a realm where there is NO chance of
- Feel the delight of being superior over others
- Feel the delight of gaining control over others
- Feel the delight of being feared by spreading fear to others.
- Feel the delight of inflicting pain to others
- Feel the delight of taking from others
- Feel the delight of rage and aggressivity and finally got your revenge.
Is not heaven...
Ask a bully why did he (or she) bullies others?
The answer that you got is because it brings a delightful feelings for them, the feelings empower them bringing a sense of security, satisfaction and superiority to the one who bullies.On this world you're exposed to all type of feelings of emotion in order for you to choose which one that suits you best.
Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.
The idea that it's exclusive to only certain 'social identity / religion' was being proposed to provide a sense of superiority to the specific 'social identity / religion'. A sense of superiority will give an emotional incentive (read Faith) for the member of specific 'social identity / religion' to be loyal the group and also obey it's leader and doctrines. Although the doctrines sometimes doesn't make sense at all.
Imagine a life situation where you've spend an effort for something but it ends up that it's somebody else who received the reward / prize / fruits and not you. You can choose to
A. Feeling cheated, treated unfair and be envious to those who received the rewards and seek out revenge.
B. Accept the events as it happened and be happy to others who received the rewards.You will receive guidance on whatever option that you chose.
But if you think about it, option B is a much much easier option, there is no more effort required since you're accepting it. Option A requires a lot of effort, but for some it's a worthwhile effort.
The above is of course a simplified version and there are more complex variance happening in this world which makes it more interesting.
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Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.
The idea that it's exclusive to only certain 'social identity / religion' was being proposed to provide a sense of superiority to the specific 'social identity / religion'. A sense of superiority will give an emotional incentive (read Faith) for the member of specific 'social identity / religion' to be loyal the group and also obey it's leader and doctrines. Although the doctrines sometimes doesn't make sense at all.
Peace Jafer...
Why do you say what you don't know..
If you don't believe in Quran and it's Author.. Then fine but why keep reiterating to its believers which is not in their book literally or indirectly...If you are still arguing / presenting within Quran your opinion then why you claim Janna is not a place... Did Quran claim that Janna is not a place?
What's your purpose? Is it your ego that everyone has chosen a wrong path so you should advice them... Where is your proof for that...No need any answer for me... Just tell me if Janna / paradise is not a physical place then why God need to DESTROY this CURRENT WORLD and RECREATE ANOTHER EARTH and HEAVENS ?
I can list more than 50 points to say that jannah is a physical place within Quran .... But I hope above is more than enough...
If you can't answer within Quran, pls don't.. I am not here to listen to your philosophy...
Coz this is quran only site in which all can give their opinion... But this website front page says this site is for those who is willing to allow God into their life.. And not for those who uses it as weapon to negate God and still not argue within Quran but his own philosophy...If you still claim so, then PROVE WITHIN QURAN that Janna is NOT physical place, before letting others YES it is
**Always remember that I am not against you personally, I am only supporting quran here.. I only want to show quran is not supporting what certain people are claiming.. If they say it supports then debate.. Personal attacks will not win the truth of Quran... Whether you understand it not is irrelevant.. I will continue as long as God teaches me and allow me..
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I reiterate once more
Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.
It's a 'realm' where it suits one state of mind / consciousness and it's not exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion".
It's an ancient debate, there's a record of similar debate happening around 2000 years ago.
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.
And 2500 years ago in China one wrote
The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao.
That is what gives her her radiance.The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn’t cling to ideas.The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see.As for this forum, it (at least claimed) that it's "God Alone".
How one interpret "God Alone" varied..
Those with exclusivity / separation view of thinking interpret it differently than those with unity view of thinking. But nonetheless both are valid view, everyone need an exposure to both. As that is the objective of this (virtual) world. -
I reiterate once more
Heaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.
It's a 'realm' where it suits one state of mind / consciousness and it's not exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion".
It's an ancient debate, there's a record of similar debate happening around 2000 years ago.
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.
And 2500 years ago in China one wrote
The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao.
That is what gives her her radiance.The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn’t cling to ideas.The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see.As for this forum, it (at least claimed) that it's "God Alone".
How one interpret "God Alone" varied..
Those with exclusivity / separation view of thinking interpret it differently than those with unity view of thinking. But nonetheless both are valid view, everyone need an exposure to both. As that is the objective of this (virtual) world.Once again it is merely your belief...so you can proudly talk of... But, Quran never supports your stance.. Quran is our salvation... That's our belief... Not only you, but anyone who is denier of Quran or who accepts quran, but still say Janna is NOT a physical place, is most welcome to bring your considerable support within Quran to substantiate ..
Any support outside of Quran is worthless for those who rely only Quran which is pointing all books' flaws and infusion.. That's our belief.. Coz QURAN says it stands as overseer of all.. It's the final of such books..
I am not here to argue about other belief since i have found a way within Quran... If they find their belief is overwhelming, then let them stick to it.. But useless penetrating to others belief and claim what is not in our book..
As you claim, If our doctrines doesn't makes sense at all keep away... No compulsion in the system of God..
You failed to bring a single verse to support that Janna is Not physical... But bringing other evidence... But our books glaring verses speaks in support of it with manifest verses...
So your belief and our belief contradicts.. So be satisfied with what you found.. But don't claim that as it is the truth while others speak of another truth... Which truth is actually truth will be known as the day of ressurection...
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Any support outside of Quran is worthless for those who rely only Quran which is pointing all books' flaws and infusion.. That's our belief.. Coz QURAN says it stands as overseer of all.. It's the final of such books..
I am not here to argue about other belief since i have found a way within Quran... If they find their belief is overwhelming, then let them stick to it.. But useless penetrating to others belief and claim what is not in our book..
Our book....
Can you elaborate on why it has become your book?As you claim, If our doctrines doesn't makes sense at all keep away... No compulsion in the system of God..
I actually do not recommend to 'keep away' on things which doesn't make sense.
But to study it, and be exposed to it... dig out the 'why' aspect.That's the objective on this world, to be exposed to all and choose which one suits you best.
And I actually know very well about this thing you called "Our Doctrines" because I used to be an ardent supporter of it.. rotfl
After being exposed to other point of views and also understand the driver / the why aspect.
I decided that's not suitable for me.Agree on what you said there is no compulsion at all, choose which suits your soul best.
You failed to bring a single verse to support that Janna is Not physical... But bringing other evidence... But our books glaring verses speaks in support of it with manifest verses...
I'm glad that you find comfort in "Our books glaring verses"..
But again you seem to always skipped my important point there
I reiterate againHeaven and Hell is inside of you, it's a state of mind / consciousness, it's not a 'physical place' where it's exclusive to only certain "social identity / religion" it's a realm where it will suits one state of mind / consciousness.
So your belief and our belief contradicts.. So be satisfied with what you found.. But don't claim that as it is the truth while others speak of another truth... Which truth is actually truth will be known as the day of ressurection...
It can easily be known now actually....
Yet "truth" is subjective just like heaven and hell is subjective.A realm where there's no chance of feeling the delight of being superior, winning, control, domination might not suitable for some yet suitable for others.
Everyone shall receive what they deserves..
God is after all the ultimate provider for all...
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Our book....
Can you elaborate on why it has become your book?The word OUR comes with acceptance of something (be it positive or negative)
Our book coz that's what I take for my salvation... While those who don't take it cannot claim so while they have their significant book in which they rely on..
That's why our prophet was ordered tell... " Say O! Disbelievers... I won't serve what you serve... And further ... To You Your Deen (system) and to Me My Deen.. "
What is our System? Our book Quran... Anyone call our book if he accepts it...
So dear..don't pinpoint things which you can't prove within Quran.... I only claim quran to negate what you say agaisnt Quran.. That's all... Other than that you may be a wonderful person which I have no idea... God knows.. I bring to table which I feel wrong according explanation of Quran of my knowledge... If claimed so.. Then be professional debate and substantiate your claim within Quran.. ..
Anything away from Quran don't expect me to reply..
Be happy with your Deen... No objection.. -
The word OUR comes with acceptance of something (be it positive or negative)
Our book coz that's what I take for my salvation... While those who don't take it cannot claim so while they have their significant book in which they rely on..
So other books cannot be claimed as among 'our books'?
This "Our Book" demanded an exclusivity?That's why our prophet was ordered tell... " Say O! Disbelievers... I won't serve what you serve... And further ... To You Your Deen (system) and to Me My Deen.. "
Now there's something new.. Our Prophet.
Does this "our prophet" demanded an exclusivity as well?
Similar to the above?What is our System? Our book Quran... Anyone call our book if he accepts it...
Our system.. a new term here as well..
It demanded an exclusivity as well?
Is it superior compared to other systems?So dear..don't pinpoint things which you can't prove within Quran.... I only claim quran to negate what you say agaisnt Quran..
And you don't think that it's everyone rights to pinpointing which can be proven by anything?
Or do you think you have the rights or power to decide what others can say or think?
And also on what ground it should be based on?That's all... Other than that you may be a wonderful person which I have no idea... God knows.. I bring to table which I feel wrong according explanation of Quran of my knowledge... If claimed so.. Then be professional debate and substantiate your claim within Quran.. ..
Professional debate... rotfl
What is that??
I never claimed as such.. did you?So those who do not substantiate their claim with Quran are not professional debater?
Yes it is perfectly ok to 'bring to the table' things which you feel wrong according to you and your knowledge.
Anything away from Quran don't expect me to reply..
Actually I was not expecting any reply from you...
Thus I'm perfectly ok if you don't reply as well...Be happy with your Deen... No objection..
The same to you.. )
As mentioned before, everyone will get what suits them.
God is the provider of ALL. -
Professional debate is if one claimed something is wrong then prove within Quran what he claimed... Since subject is within Quran...
I will always put my view dude whenever one is speaking against what is the actual fact of Quran.. So you can't keep me away... Be happy till then....
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I will always put my view dude whenever one is speaking against what is the actual fact of Quran.. So you can't keep me away... Be happy till then....
I knew that you will reply, you just can't stand it did you? rotfl
But it seems you didn't answered my 3 other questions regarding "Our book", "our prophet" and "our system". Nonetheless it is ok if you don't want to address those.
Where and when did I try to 'keep you away' ?
I think you've been a great help of showing the contrast.
I thank you for that, many others here benefited from your presence.Even there were times when 'flat-earthers' somehow being banned from this forum.
I put my plea to the administrators to release the ban. -
Wassalam ade_cool,
Right now I am unsure if God knows the future or knows what we do as we do it (kind of like surveillance in the present). But I do know He decides to guide or misguide with our consent (since we choose the decisions) as I know this from the Qur'an.
Do you think God sees everything- past, present and future? As humans we see things in a linear fashion i.e. one event leads to another because we are constrained by time.
Salam Sarah,
Let me try to explain my current understanding based on Quran for this topic.
General Principles
In general, we will be presented choices from time to time and having shown us the truth God let us choose which one we will take. After we choose at one time, we will then be presented again with next choices depending on choices that we have taken previously.
If everything has been written and we are just following the script, then below verses make no sense at all
And say “The truth is from your Lord, so let whoever desires believe, and whoever desires reject.” We have prepared for the wicked a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them. And if they cry out, they are given a water like boiling oil which burns their faces. What a dreadful drink and what a miserable place!
What is the point of saying we can choose to believe or reject if we are just following script already written?
Did the people think that they will be left to say “We believe” without being put to the test?
Can we call it a test if we are simply following the script written?
Present with him and behind him are retainers, they preserve him from the command of God. God does not change the condition of a people until they change what is with themselves. And if God wanted to harm a people, then there is no turning Him back, nor will they have any protector against Him.
What is the point of telling us that He will change our condition provided that we first change ourselves, if we are just following written script?
There are many other verses which are consistent with the general principles mentioned above that we have choices.
The picture attached depicts in very simplified manner how we are presented with choices and how what we have chosen in the past influence the next choices presented to us.
https//i.ibb.co/dLK8qwB/choices.png
Some explanations regarding the picture
- Choices presented next depend on choice already taken
- Red color depicts bad choice, Green color depicts good choice
- The more to the left, the worse it is while the more to the right, the better it is
Now let's read some verses and let's try to relate them
And God increases the guidance of those who are guided. And the goodness that endures is better with your Lord as a reward and a far better return.
As for those who strive in Our cause, We will guide them to Our paths. For God is with the pious.
Those who follow guidance, God will increase the guidance. Those who strive in the cause of God, they will be led to God's path. This is depicted in the picture in that the more one choose green or strive to go in green direction, the less red choices are presented to them.
Do they not see they are tested every calendar year once or twice? But then they do not repent, nor do they remember.
This is depicted in the picture in that just because one is currently in red zone, does not mean they cannot repent.
And recite to them the news of the person whom Our revelations were given to him, but he removed himself from them, and thus the devil followed him, and he became of those who went astray.
And the other way around, just because one has been given ayats, he can still go astray if he removes himself from the ayats.
So whoever does the weight of an atom of good will see it.
And whoever does the weight of an atom of evil will see it.Indeed, God does not wrong the weight of an atom; and if it is good He will double it. And He grants from Himself a great recompense.
And whoever does good works, whether male or female, and is a believer, then these will be admitted to Paradise, and they will not be wronged even to the extent of naqira .
Did you not note those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged even to the extent of fatila .
Overall, the more we make good choices the more it adds to our weight while the more we make bad choice the more it reduces our weight. And nobody will be wronged even the slightest.
BEHOLD, as for those who are bent on denying the truth - it is all one to them whether thou warnest them or dost not warn them they will not believe.
God has sealed their hearts and their ears, and over their eyes are covers. They will incur a great retribution.And let not those who reject think that We are providing for them out of the goodness of themselves. We are only providing for them so that they may increase in sin, and they will have a humiliating retribution.
“The secrets of the heavens, so that I may take a look at the god of Moses; though I think he is a liar.” Thus the evil works of Pharaoh were adorned for him, and he was blocked from the path. And the planning of Pharaoh brought nothing but regret.
Another important lesson from Quran is that just because one is not dead yet, does not mean the path to salvation is still available. If one keeps choosing bad choices one after another, at one point God might decide to block him from the path by putting seals in his heart, ears and eyes. And in such situation, His provision is merely so that they increase in sin. Going back to the picture, this situation is depicted in choice #11 and choice #12, i.e. next choices presented at that points all inevitably lead to hell.
“So that I may do good in that which I have left behind.” No, it is but a word he is speaking. And there is a barrier to prevent them from going back until the Day they are all resurrected.
And there is no going back in time to make different choices. For every decision one makes, one has to deal with its consequences.
God is All Knowing as He knows every single choice we have taken in the past and He knows what choices being presented to us (meaning He knows every possibilities of our future). See the picture again and now imagine a being that is two dimensional being. Let's say the being is at choice #8. The being can only see choices being presented to it which are choice #14, #15, and #16. On the other hand, higher dimension being (in this case 3 or above) can see much more, for example what choices after choice #14, #15, and #16.
Exceptions
There are exceptions in that some chosen people are presented choices that lead to paradise. An example for this exception would be Jesus.
So she pointed to him. They said “How can we talk to someone who is a child in a cradle?”
He said “I am a servant of God, He has given me the Book and made me a prophet.”
“And He made me blessed wherever I am, and He has charged me with the Connection and purification as long as I am alive.”
“And to be dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a mischievous tyrant.”
“And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the Day I am resurrected alive.”It should be noted that the exceptions are always for positive case, i.e. the outcome is good.
Matter Already Decided
Some matters have already been decided by God. For such matters, it will happen as per His decision according to His will. An example of this can be seen from the following verses
And had your Lord willed, all the people on the earth in their entirety would have believed. Would you force the people to make them believe?
And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
God has decided that not all people will believe and majority are leading away from the path of God. This is a matter already decided so no matter what it will happen as per God will. However God has not decided on who will be left astray and who will be guided. His decision will be based on what we choose when we are presented choices from time to time.
And We decreed to the Children of Israel in the Book, that you will make corruption twice on the earth, and that you will become very high and mighty.
God has decreed that Bani Israil will make corruption on earth twice. This is a matter already decided so no matter what it will happen as per God will.
If you do good, then it will be good for you, and if you do bad, then so be it. But when the promise of the second time comes, they will make your faces filled with sorrow and they will enter the Masjid as they did the first time, and they will strike down all that was raised up.
However God has not decided who among the Bani Israil people will be part of corruption and who will be doing good. His decision will be based on what Bani Israil people choose when presented choices from time to time.
Wassalam,
Ade -
Please provide ayats that say "'God doesn't know what we will do next."
Like this? https//encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSUq7sILn7kMnOg8Q_bWeUV_2ru7mB247ztuiTFDfJXmwVTJd51 or this https//encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTErcejTyqTvFp4w4NKlQSDH07HHSZlH7JyyG9jLWZ5gRoqvfZh
nah, no way
Putting Allah in time and physical boundaries creates a misunderstanding.
peace
I never said I agreed with, 'God doesn't know what we will do next'. I quoted it. Doesn't mean I agree with it. In fact, I questioned it in my own sentence afterwards,' But doesn't God know the FUTURE? Or does He only know what we are doing in the PRESENT?.
I don't know if you're misquoting me on purpose or if you did not understand the question.
As for God existing out of time and space, I don't think the Qur'an explicitly mentions this. However, I do not necessarily think that God exists within time and space.
@Hawk, you also misquoted me here
Quote from Sarah on March 22, 2020, 075918 PMSo God is not an infinite being outside of time and space but actually a physical being.
That was never my own view. I quoted someone else. I literally put it in quotes as is evident from the way I wrote my question. I do not understand why you're misquoting me on purpose? It's hurtful and manipulative.
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Peace Sarah.
We are all brothers and sisters here trying to learn from each other.
From my experience here, I know that the majority of the brothers and sisters are sincerily trying their best to help by answering,clarifying and cheking the questions with you.Please allow me to expand a little bit on "GOD knows everything"- Omniscient-, quote
When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God also knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.
That is completely independent and aside from any creation, That is a fact.
Now GOD ,through this perfect knowledge has decided to create us, part of the reason for creating us is to let us choose (Amana).Just because one can say the following
O LORD, you have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from far away. You search out my path and my lying down, and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, O LORD, you know it completely. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is so high that I cannot attain it (Psalm 1391-6).
Does not mean one cannot choose and make decisions of the path we wish to follow.For the dedicated believer it makes no difference, In fact the added bonus is that GOD tries/searches our hearts deeper and we cannot hide anything from GOD
And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever (1 Chronicles 289).
To summarise sister
GOD is able to righteously judge humanity for He knows the thought as well as the deed. His omniscience also allows GOD to predict the future. He knows everything that will happen before it occurs. There is great security for the believer in the omniscience of GOD.
GOD knows the need of each believer and he promises to meet those needs. All those who have put their trust in GOD are comforted by the thought of God's omniscience.
GOD bless you.
Peace.