Concerns

good_logic

This logic and reason also tells us to investigate how to live this life.
Does the creator play a part? How?
It does not make sense to leave us with our "warped" logic and "flawed" reason to go it alone. Is there a manual/ Or more presice a message with instructions to follow for a "better" path?

It is all good and well if one uses logic and reason. But to succeed one needs knowledge and direction. This is "guidance" from the creator.

Of course if one chooses to rely on only their logic and reason, well they have that choice also.
GOD bless.
Peace.

Fadiva

Salam.

That does sound extreme.

I see shirk as linking things/concepts with God when He has no partners, for example

Having man-made laws, to which we say "God revealed or God blessed" rather than acknowledging them as 100% human and having no authority beyond what we decide;
Stating that a human made something wonderful in nature happen - like a garden growing or a child being born - which is clearly God's domain;

Hello Layth,

Yes, I understand, it's because (too much) fears can make someone generate distressing thoughts. I think I wanted to be reassured as I noticed that those fears could infect me so that I can't think clearly. It is not all the time, but it can happen.

Peace be upon you.

Fadiva

Peace All.
How about a list of things that brothers and sisters may add or replace or...
Like below.
Commiting shirk is doing the following
1- Putting any other authority before GOD Alone

2-Loving and anyone else( Human, material, other...) more than GOD Alone

3- Relying on anyone elsse to help you before GOD Alone.

4- Believing anyone else has power besides GOD Alone.(Fearing any other power)

5- Thanking anyone else besides GOD Alone first and formost.( Thank GOD first then others as GOD made it happen)

6-Giving more time to anything else more than GOD Alone.(Idolising others).

7- Following our opinions/views/other peoples opinions /views while ignoring/not giving importance to GOD Alone.message/instructions.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Hello Good Logic,

You mean you say "all thanks to Allah" and then " thank you" when someone give you a service or just do something kind ( like just open the door for you), or just you think that all good things is thanks to Allah and say "thank you" to that person or are everyday aware of the fact that Allah give the good ?
Or don't you thank people at all ?

In France we say "merci" as a politeness formula maybe there is a slight difference with the english word thank. For example, "thanks to you" will be translated to "grâce à toi" in french ( and not "merci à toi&quot.
Peace

Fadiva

I guess it is a tiny side effect of the mindfulness you are practicing. Try overriding the thought with “God please make this software work”.

If the concern eats you up in a quiet room, relax, close your eyes and contact God. Tell him about it. Don’t leave out description your fear. You will surely get his response in your heart. The more this happens the more you will be at ease. Do let us know if it works for you.

I must say I have a feeling that your concern is synchronicity in disguise. Creation actually resembles computer programs. Maybe your fear is signaling something? You have to personally investigate that.

Hello Reel,

I think you gave really good advice. Thanks

What do you mean by "synchronicity in disguise" ? I don't like and disagree the message that leave my antivirus software " you're protected, you computer is healthy". And I know it's marketing concept to means that the software is up to date and didn't detected any virus or destructed them.
I know how those software works and it seems ok to me, but sometimes I can have distressing thoughts about it.

Yes I think you're right, I should investigated more about it.

Peace.

Fadiva

God created nature with logic and reason, and we can understand nature and how it was created because we were given the ability to. It is this ability that makes us humans, and not animals. If there is anything holy in humans it is this ability to reason.
If you give up on that ability, which is supposed to guide you in your quest of truth and understanding then you can only expect the worst.

Hello Cerberus,

Yes, we have to use our abilities and need the guidance of God (as precised good Logic)
I think that sometimes one can fear somethink so much that they are unable to think correctly or even act.

Peace.

Cerberus

This logic and reason also tells us to investigate how to live this life.
Does the creator play a part? How?
It does not make sense to leave us with our "warped" logic and "flawed" reason to go it alone. Is there a manual/ Or more presice a message with instructions to follow for a "better" path?

It is all good and well if one uses logic and reason. But to succeed one needs knowledge and direction. This is "guidance" from the creator.

Of course if one chooses to rely on only their logic and reason, well they have that choice also.
GOD bless.
Peace.

This is what life is for..becoming more and more reasonable, more understanding, and less and less selfish, driven by your own fulfillement and bias.

The most fundamental knowledge is the knowledge of oneself. We also learn about it through life...

If you give a "manual for success" to anyone who havent put effort and strived for the above mentioned things it won't make a difference. You give it to a blind person they're still blind. A hateful person, a dishonest person, a biased person, a prideful person.

I believe guidance is earned and not granted. And I believe guidance is related to reason aswell. A guided person is more and more reasonable, a guided person is not one who follow a "manual"...they could follow a manual unreasonably, with bias, with hate, with ignorance, by culture.....

What you claim seems to be wishful thinking.

good_logic

Peace Cerberus.
Somehow our wires got crossed and one of us is midsunderstanding the other.
So let me clarify
Logic and reason alone is useless, wishing guidance alone is even worse . You need all three.
Also when you say,quote

"The most fundamental knowledge is the knowledge of oneself. We also learn about it through life."

It seems the human being had thousands of years at least of life to know oneself and to know each other and what have we learnt about ourselves?

It is no use saying one needs to know oneself without a guiding teacher to help. This most important factor in my opinion is our creator. Without being conscious ,acknowleging and seeking help from our creator it will be a losing battle.

That is my opinion,even if it is wishful thinking on my part. Knowing our creator comes first,then we may know ourself.
However seeking knowledge as a general aim in life is recommended.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Cerberus

Our ancestors have reached the same conclusion aswell, self-knowledge comes first. Because without it you don't know what motivates you, and you don't know whether you're doing something out of "good" or out of "bad".
To the one who has no self-knowledge, doing "bad" can appear to be good. They can't tell that they're biased or that they're motivated by hate or jealousy or pride etc.

The saying goes know yourself so that you may know your creator and not other way for a reason...

Our difference is that for me, God's guidance is to earn the ability to think and reason properly...It is not a matter of wishing or guidance falling from the sky or anything like that. Isn't the one who can think properly able to accomplish rightful deeds ? Is not it guidance or is something else ?

What about the one who wishes for guidance to fall from the sky, but doesn't think properly, will he be able to accomplish good deeds ? will guidance come to this man ?

In general, how exactly did we go from cave dwellers to lawful citizens over the course of human history ?

And yes of course seeking knowledge is a good thing. From what our ancestors left us and moving forward;

good_logic

Peace Cerberus.
And what is the source of this self knowledge?
This is what I disagreed with, without GOD s message/knowledge/instruction/teaching... we would have known very little
For me this is the source of that knowledge
" Wa Anzala Allah Alaika Al Kitab Wa Al Hikmata Wa Allmaka Ma Lam Takun Taalam. Wa Kana Fadlu Allh Alaika Kabira."

GOD has sent down to us the book/knowledge and wisdom( including to know oneself/better onself ), GOD taught us what we did not know. GOD s favour to us is great.
GOD is a big factor in the equation.
But I agree one has to work hard and search deep to succed.
Thank you brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Cerberus

It's seems that you think whenever I speak high of reason I'm ignoring God in the equation ? I'm not. To me, Reason IS the link between men and God. Doesn't the one who acts reasonably benefit from his deeds sooner or later ? and the one who acts unreasonably (following his desires instead) suffers from his deeds sooner or later ?

Is there no similarity with the verse "the good is from God and the bad is from yourself" ?

Whereas for typical religious people, the link to God is no more than a sensation and wishes...one could be drowning in non-sense and still have that sensation.

good_logic

Peace Cerberus.
Thanks for explaning your take on your "reason" which can differ from mine and others when I think about my personal reasoning and peopleI in general. Many do not even acknowledge or believe in GOD.
I used to think my reasoning was fine ,I never took GOD into it in the past , but I found out that it was an "arogance" that I was not even aware of. I also thought that my knowledge was sound. Now I see it as confusion and a mixture of mish mash of reality and fables.

Basically I know very little. All I can say for now is I am trying to "RELEARN" everything.

What I know for sure is that without GOD s help I will never succeed.

Thank you brother and best luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

amin

By using an antivirus, are we against God ) nice concern.

Yes if you are giving too much credit to the AV software or the maker, too much credit than its worth of. and start believing antivirus alone makes your life peacefull.

AntiVirus software are good for your computers, but it could also make your life miserable, by making your computers slow down, sometime do more damage to the comp if they have bugs, after all its all human made, and now a days it being doubted that some of those can implant spywares to track your behavior. )

reel

Hello Reel,

I think you gave really good advice. Thanks

What do you mean by "synchronicity in disguise" ? I don't like and disagree the message that leave my antivirus software " you're protected, you computer is healthy". And I know it's marketing concept to means that the software is up to date and didn't detected any virus or destructed them.
I know how those software works and it seems ok to me, but sometimes I can have distressing thoughts about it.

Yes I think you're right, I should investigated more about it.

Peace.

You're welcome.

I noticed synchronicity is very much part of following God alone, but strangely, we don't talk about it.

Here is the definition of the word "Synchronicities are events connected to one another not by strict cause-and-effect, but by what in classical times were known as sympathies, by the belief that an acausal relationship exists between events on the inside and the outside of ourselves, a crosstalk between mind and matter—which is governed by a certain species of attraction.

Jung believed that synchronicities mirror deep psychological processes, carry messages the way dreams do, and take on meaning and provide guidance to the degree they correspond to emotional states and inner experiences."

https//www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/passion/201712/synchronicities-sure-sign-youre-the-right-path

Maybe God is guiding you to something significant?

Jafar

I know that some people can be anxious about certain things.
I am anxious about the idea to set up partners with God, maybe of lack of understanding about what this all encompasses.

Peace Fadiva,

I think the main problem here is your anxiety.
And I bet that beside your 'anxiety about set up partner with God' you also have many other type of anxiety.

Before going back to your anxiety, let's address the illogicality of setting up partner with God.

The idea came due to POLYTHEISM.

Within Polytheistic concept, a god or a deity is a FINITE being, more of 'super human' kind of being.
There are many of them, each having their own kingdom / area of jurisdiction, can get pissed off, crazy of being praised / worshiped, need offerings (lamb, camel, your own children or wives) and they're also competing with each others and often involved with war among themselves. (War between gods).

Basically a god is one f&*d up, crazy, narcissistic kind of human being with super human power.

So let's say you're a worshiper of Marduk, Marduk will be heavily pissed of if you also consider Zeus as another God let alone Zeus as your God. Because Marduk sees Zeus as among his competitor and vice-versa, they don't get along well and each think that they're a greater God than the others. Sometimes they also fought war with each others.

Within MONOTHEISM concept, God is an INFINITY, The Infinite Creator, Sustainer and Maintainer of All.
By ALL here really means ALL, another universe than this physical universe of ours, another galaxy, another stars, planets and any conscious being within; Aliens, the people that you hate, plants, animals, ghost, spirit, what have you.

Because it's an Infinity there is no logical and possible way for two or more infinity to exist, because as such there will be a border between the two (or more) which render itself to be no longer an infinity but a finite something.

People may named this Infinite Creator using different names, Brahman, Tao, YHVH, Hyang Widhi, Infinite Intelligence, Infinite Universe what have you, but as long as it's a reference to the same concept, it doesn't matter.

With such definition you don't need to be anxious of you having another Infinite Creator beside the Infinite Creator right? Because it's impossible and totally illogical.

Now about your anxiety, you should then ask questions towards yourselves;
WHY you feel anxious?
Where does the fear came from?

good_logic

Peace Fadiva.
Thank you for your reply.
Just to clarify we say thank you to people, this is a normal requirement . Like when we return the greetings of people.
However our thanks to GOD should always take precedence and become a habit.

The example that I want to highlight about thanking others when GOD does things is like when people pray to GOD when they have a need ,but when their need is solved,they thank the saints and make offerings/charity on behalf of "human idols" or others ,forgetting GOD altogether.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Fadiva

By using an antivirus, are we against God nice concern.

Yes if you are giving too much credit to the AV software or the maker, too much credit than its worth of. and start believing antivirus alone makes your life peacefull.

AntiVirus software are good for your computers, but it could also make your life miserable, by making your computers slow down, sometime do more damage to the comp if they have bugs, after all its all human made, and now a days it being doubted that some of those can implant spywares to track your behavior.

Hello Amin

No, of course I m not giving to much credit on it. For me it detects the viruses it recognizes (that why updates are necessary, otherwise it won't identify a new virus and I know that it can miss one or several viruses...) and I t can prevent a dangerous web page from being dispayed but can prevent the dispaying of a "normal" page just because of a program which behaves diferently, etc...

Peace

Fadiva

You're welcome.

I noticed synchronicity is very much part of following God alone, but strangely, we don't talk about it.

Here is the definition of the word "Synchronicities are events connected to one another not by strict cause-and-effect, but by what in classical times were known as sympathies, by the belief that an acausal relationship exists between events on the inside and the outside of ourselves, a crosstalk between mind and matter—which is governed by a certain species of attraction.

Jung believed that synchronicities mirror deep psychological processes, carry messages the way dreams do, and take on meaning and provide guidance to the degree they correspond to emotional states and inner experiences."

https//www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/passion/201712/synchronicities-sure-sign-youre-the-right-path

Maybe God is guiding you to something significant?

Hello Reel,

You can open a new thread to talk about the subject. I would be interested to read what you noticed.

Now I understand, yes maybe there are events in our lives which are connected, maybe those mean something important, I don't know if we have to take them into account ( If Allah authorize it).
I read the article you gave me, I don't know if his story is true, but I understood the topic.
I am a person who doubt, and I can lack of insurance.
I have been spiritual, then rational and down to earth, and now reconsider things. I thing I can question what I thought true (even it's not easy) to hope to approach or reach the truth.
I think I am afraid to wrong myself, maybe to much that I can't really move forward (or I don't really notice it).

Maybe it would be interesting to talk about experiences we can identify as "synchronicities" or succesive signs.
I noticed some in my life (several) and one I can't find any rational explaination (and another I can explain in part but can't explain it all).
But if those where signs as warning to conduct me to the right path, I wonder why I deserve this, because I wasn't all my life a believer and sometimes I can doubt and thrive to reject doubts.
Peace

Fadiva