Proof for the existence of an Almighty/Omnipotent being
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It is interesting to play a game of purpose/why...things exist?
For example if we make a list of things we make, we can easily find a purpose for them,like;
Cars- To take us somewhere. etc...Rarely we make something that has no use?
So for sur we can say about these things that they exist for a purpose.Then we move on to things that we did not make like;
Plants, Animals, insects...etc. These also seem to have a purpose for either us ,the environment, life, earth,...
Now we come to our existence
Who created us? For what purpose?
Is this a problem?
Well it depends on many factors, but logically there must be a good reason why we exist.It has to be.
The fact that we struggle to find the purpose is because of our exception form the materials, animals, plants...etc.
We are meant to investigate, take the journey, work hard....etc to find the main purpose along with the source/origin of where all this came from?!!
GOD bless.
Peace. -
We are meant to investigate, take the journey, work hard....etc to find the main purpose along with the source/origin of where all this came from?!!
I honestly pay much respect to Party D.
Those who decided to teach THE WAY / METHOD for one to find the main purpose themselves.And not jumpiing or insisting let alone threatening others to accept "the main purpose".
Among Party D are the movement / teachings of Taoism, Buddhism and Yoga-ism.
Nearly all are rooted in the far eastern philosophical movement.
Again the movement and teaching, NOT the religion with the same name.Yet they do offer a 'cheat' for those who really doesn't have the patience for the journey or doing the method and wanted to know directly what is the main purpose?
With caveat / remarks that you might not "get it" and that's why the way / method and walking the journey is more important.As all those 3 cited movements above agree that the main purpose is "SELF DISSOLUTION".
Taoism calls it "in harmony", Buddhism calls it "enlightenment", Yoga-ism, as the name itself "Yoga" entails calls it "Union".
Glad-fully and happily dissolving ourselves and be united with the infinity.
Jafar (or put the label of your identity here) become nothing and by becoming nothing he has become everything.The above concept is hard to swallow by most, thus the imagery of "Heaven with 72 virgins" as "purpose" are easier to grasp by most and by far more popular.
Thus, back to the main title of this thread
One will definitely find the proof of the existence of the infinity (not a "being" at all, since it is infinite)
Only when he / she has found the proof of his / her own NON-existence.The day creation understand the creator results in turning them to equal of creator.
The day the creation understand that he/she/it is a fractional part of the creator and in reality do not exist will resulted in he/she/it's own dissolution and unification with the creator.
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The day the creation understand that he/she/it is a fractional part of the creator and in reality do not exist will resulted in he/she/it's own dissolution and unification with the creator.
I was not clear on that specific line what i tried to figure out let me explain it what i mean by understanding the creator.
I mean understanding the method of creation makes you creator in theorytical terms.
So the way we look at cosmos make us understand with this time line or adding million more timelines cannot let us solve how/what cosmos come into being at first place in which we are a part of of tiny planet.
In example sub-creation of something from created things make a company claim its manufacturing rights and they fix the price and called themselves OWNER of that product and untill the method stolen/copied/discovered by someone else to create a same thing with different label then you have two manufacturers now.
Life, death, control, shape, face, nothing at all even intelligence levels are not designed by human incase he understand the creation of making humanity then he/she/it is master over all his fears.
In this way i said the day creation understand creator will be the day of equality.
Although words are also sometimes make confusion about that being we call creator.
Creator/ion and evolver/ion also cause confusion with respect to the concepts. So we cant even able to agree on the names what people given to the initiator/s. Means mystery upon mystery unsolveable at this time line atleast.
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It is interesting to play a game of purpose/why...things exist?
Noone was playing the game of purpose but it was just a simple thing to observe that why things exist instead of non-exist to understand more about existence and NON-existence at same time. Absence of one make the presence of other like dark and light.
For example if we make a list of things we make, we can easily find a purpose for them,like;
Cars- To take us somewhere. etc...Rarely we make something that has no use?
So for sur we can say about these things that they exist for a purpose.Thats called sub creation and its silly to think about the purpose of artificial creation as we know we only created/invented that creation for a purpose if there was not a purpose to reach to the destination faster never noone created the cars. Example if u can travel with the speed of light thinking about making car was totally useless and un-purposeful..
Then we move on to things that we did not make like;
Plants, Animals, insects...etc. These also seem to have a purpose for either us ,the environment, life, earth,...TRUE interestingly natural creation and study deep about animals plant even atom tells us how important they are for the environemnt to exist. When we see the fruit we eat involve lot of universal things like water, rain, sunlight, soil, seed etc and how everything serving everything we suddenly label that creation has that purpose for US. Not for them.
Now we come to our existence
Who created us? For what purpose?
Is this a problem?The problem is after successfully find the purpose for other things that are in service for humanity. We continuosly struggle to find our own purpose lol.
Some have purpose of following rituals
Some have purpose of getting 72 virgins by killing 72 people in blast.
Some have purpose of understanding the mystery of creation.
Some have purpose to find a purpose why created humanity what purpose they are actually serving?Using planet living in it and all the creation had a purpose for that humanity to give them fruit, food etc?
Thats the problem we are not still unanimous about one purpose.
Next thing will be why we think like that? Why we have consciousness? What and where consciousness come from? Why other creation appears not to think like that or they are not atleast so curious to launch hubble in space like we do our distant family of animals ape dnt do that?
Thats why scientists try to understand universe becoz its story is our story.
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In this way i said the day creation understand creator will be the day of equality.
And unification.. the 'day' when enlightenment happened, the union of individual consciousness with that of the Universal Consciousness.
Although words are also sometimes make confusion about that being we call creator.
Creator/ion and evolver/ion also cause confusion with respect to the concepts. So we cant even able to agree on the names what people given to the initiator/s. Means mystery upon mystery unsolveable at this time line atleast.Because human are used to think about themselves in separation.
And since they're a being, they think the creator must be another being separated / outside from his own.
And so does human language, all are constructed with such line of thinking.As long as this 'separation' exist, one will never found it, only when the separation totally dissolved then one will find it. But then he will no longer be exist as the separation has been dissolved. Because existence in his mindset is the existence of the separation between I and the rest.
A poetic excerpt from Tao The Ching about the matter it gives a 'hint' of at least on "where" to look, and the seeker can start from there.
The Master keeps her mind
always at one with the Tao;
that is what gives her her radiance.The Tao is ungraspable.
How can her mind be at one with it?
Because she doesn't cling to ideas.The Tao is dark and unfathomable.
How can it make her radiant?
Because she lets it.Since before time and space were,
the Tao is.
It is beyond is and is not.
How do I know this is true?
I look inside myself and see. -
Does it really matter about the purpose?
The character shapes the person. Some try very hard to form their own character, others are either trained by others, affected by others or conform to "society s norm".
To form our own character can also go both ways. Good or bad.
This is where people differ on the way to become" the character " we are.
Of course a good character will be known by the "fruit" they produce
Just.
caring.
loving.
Peaceful.
Hard working.
Polite.
Does to others...
Respectful.
...etc.Otherwise one will be going up in circles looking for a purpose.What use finding a purpose if the character is a lost soul?
As for this, quote"Thats the problem we are not still unanimous about one purpose."
It becomes irrelevant.We should all race towards the "good" character. This will lead to the common purpose.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Disagree with Good Logic whatever! God knows all, we know nothing! )
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And unification.. the 'day' when enlightenment happened, the union of individual consciousness with that of the Universal Consciousness.
Because human are used to think about themselves in separation.
Yeah we can suppose thats the reason even after understanding human is unable to understand.
Human and their ancestors create an IMAGE of themselves = I
And then human create the IMAGE of other = you/them.And then separation upon separation made human think he/she separate from every other thing/being. Basically we can say the IMAGE of egoism.
On the other hand religious teaching metaphorically connects one to another.
ExampleType 1 God created man in his image.
Type 2 God created the rooh of human with his blow.
Type 3 universe created human from the atoms/particles from universe.So everything universally connected but thats really hard to grasp on individual level, pain of one cant be feel by others they can only witness it but the individual suffers it. Thats y its make a big confusion.
It appears that separation is prominent in creation and its a part of what we call life. The law of pain make us believe we are separate individual.
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On the other hand religious teaching metaphorically connects one to another. It appears that separation is prominent in creation and its a part of what we call life. The law of pain make us believe we are separate individual.
If it's "religion" then some religious teaching is actually Party A kind of ideology.
Dogmatic; by asking one to believe a conclusion even without knowing why and it also divide one with another.Believer and unbeliever. Good and evil. Chosen and un-chosen, blessed and cursed, loyal and rebellious.
The us vs them..Of course the contrast exist, it's all part of creation, and actually also a finite part of the infinite creator.
The contrast can be further simplified with view of
A. Path which encourage separation (distortion) vs B. Path which encourage union (natural).Example
Pride is an expression of exclusivity (I and We are better/higher than You or They thus it's my right to dominate you / them)
While humility and love is an expression of inclusivity. (I love you / them because actually you / them is a part of me)If one define their purpose is; among others; having 72 slaves, you can easily know which path it is.
As the ultimate reality is those 72 slaves is actually a part of yourselves.
Naturally those 72 slaves will want to be free, as you also naturally want to be free, it will take a great effort and motivation just to keep those 72 slaves under 1 master. And in reality they will become enslaved to one another, there are actually 73 slaves in one circle of bondage. As the 1 'master' will also be enslaved to keep the other 72 'slaves' in a bondage.As such The path of separation is actually the path which is hard to walk through, because it's unnatural, it requires a great effort and motivation just to stay on the path. While the path of union flow easily as it's natural.
Yet both will merge at specific point.
Because the ultimate destination is actually a union with the creator.
And the nature of the creator is, of course, inclusivity, as everything is a part of the infinite creator.Have you heard of the announcement lately?
The 'iconic' figure of the separation path has grew sick of it and decided to spread some love by singing "I want to break free!".
https//youtu.be/zL5zjX82Ee0 -
Peace jafar.
Some things you say do not make sense to me, like, quote"Of course the contrast exist, it's all part of creation, and actually also a finite part of the infinite creator."
How do you know the infinite creator has finite parts? Describe all the parts?Like which parts of the whole?
If you go in circles and tell me creation are part of the creator, you need to say which part?Or may be you do not see your real contrast?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
How do you know the infinite creator has finite parts?
Look inside yourselves and see.
As Lao Tse has written more than 2500 years ago.Describe all the parts?Like which parts of the whole?
If you go in circles and tell me creation are part of the creator, you need to say which part?All creation are indeed part of the creator.
You are part of the creator..
That iconic figure who fed up with separation and sing I wanted to be free is part of the creator.Dogs, Cats, Pigs, Plants, Cells, Bacteria, Viruses, Rocks, Atom, Galaxy, Black Hole, Stars, Space, Time are part of the creator. Zillions of other universes than this one that we currently living in are part of the creator.
Conjure up anything in your mind, it's all part of the creator.Shed all of your ego (which act as a separator between the "I" and the "Others) and you will be unified the creator and finally experienced it yourselves.
But if you're not "ready yet" and "cannot grasped the concept" yet.. it's also ok, the creator will not punished you or angry at you... because you are part of the creator.
And when there's some body or some thing who forced you to believe in things and threatened you if you refuse you will be punished and tortured, than that 'thing' is definitely not the creator but still a part of the creator. A part of the creator who think that it's possible to be separated from the creator.
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Peace jafar.
Gobbledygook, nonsense to me this,quote"But if you're not "ready yet" and "cannot grasped the concept" yet.. it's also ok, the creator will not punished you or angry at you... because you are part of the creator."
How does one grasp your concept?
So when I say you do not grasp and when you say I should grasp?
Or shall I just grasp my understanding and you grasp yours?
Or am I unfair and you are not?
Or because you say so brother jafar. Or can the infinite creator not have infinite parts?
This rules me out, you can stay part of your infinite creator if you want.
I pass.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Or can the infinite creator not have infinite parts?
Definitely the "parts" are infinite..
This rules me out, you can stay part of your infinite creator if you want.I pass.
Our infinite creator
As advised, you should start from yourselves.
Pondered "Who or What Am I?"In reality, good logic doesn't exist, good logic is merely a manifestation of it's creator on this forum.
There's a consciousness behind good logic who has identified itself to become good logic on this forum.The consciousness feels happy when somebody praised good logic, The consciousness are 'angry' when somebody insulted good logic. It happened because the consciousness has identify or associate itself with a character that doesn't really exist named good logic.
good logic will die, it can be because
- the consciousness behind it has projected it's focus elsewhere.
- this forum has died.
- murdered by the admin of this forum
- the consciousness behind the consciousness behind good logic projected it's focus elsewhere. We call this phenomenon "physical death".
Once the consciousness behind good logic has shed one (among many) of it's identity, what lies beyond it?
The consciousness behind good logic will also die, it's a certainty, such moment is not the end but it will be a moment of revelation for him. As he has experienced the shedding of good logic and also the shedding of identity behind good logic.
Thus this process of 'dis-association' or 'disbandment' of identities, of the ego, of the "I", will progress further and further.. until there will be no more "I" to shed, no more ego to shed.
Feel free to change good logic to jafar or to any other avatar's name on this forum, as the evolutionary process is pretty much the same.
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Our mind and imagination is entirely dependent on existence. Existence determines what things are possible or not. Since we are entirely dependent on existence we cannot think or imagine beyond or outside of existence. So imagination is bound by existence and it is existence that makes things possible or not. To prove this, try and think or imagine something that is meaningful and coherent that has never existed and can never exist.
Think about it, if it's hypothetically impossible (as in it can never exist and has never existed) how can your mind or imagination go beyond or outside of existence when there is nothing outside of existence and your imagination is entirely dependent on existence?
If you could imagine impossibilities (something or a state of affairs that has never existed and can never exist), then you should at least be able to give me one example.
Dear all...
Peace...
Without knowing the existence of our Creator it's worthless all our actions towards the alleged imaginary Creator/s...
Some are mentally confident that there is a creator behind all these otherwise perfection of this existence of nature is impossible... They claim..@ Nimnim...
I don't agree with you..
People can think of impossible things and even make it real and make it valid and make it the accepted truth... Which in the end never do exist..Best example.. this Universe as how they claim... Is it true what they say? Can anyone accept it without any single doubt in them? Have they seen it? Or imagination became reality with deception?
Now what is impossible here? Stationary Earth or the Universe which
no one has seen and would never see.. Which one is lie? So one or the other is impossible imagination.. But made it possible..Let me turn to the point existence of God... It is not mandatory that everyone on Earth say that God does exist.. If so no need to fill hell..
For me simply my birth my body my soul my life and my certain death is more than enough to convince that there is God... Let that be with me..
But for those who is in serious doubt of existence of God... I recommend to explore the Earth and heavens ..do they exist? Yes they do... any doubt? Honestly in my total understanding if this universe is as the NASA and majority claim then I can't even imagine a God behind it... That's incontrovertible... Coz those who claim Universe say that it doesn't need a Creator.. Then why believe in universe which they made you to believe and still claim God created it? Useless creation never could be explored... Never meaningful and never beneficial to us.. No purpose.. We will die without knowing it for sure... This verse 3827 and identical verses are clear meaningless if so.."We have not created the heavens and earth, and what between them is, for vanity; such is the thought of the unbelievers, wherefore woe unto the unbelievers because of the Fire"
But if we are within a closed chamber without being able to escape out of it then there is much meaning that someone is controlling the closed chamber... So we are in fact slaves inside... But with freedom...
So dear brothers and sisters... Explore neutrally whether we are living in a controlled closed chamber or in a universe which has no boundaries... Once you have much knowledge on it then compare the verses of Quran or Torah or Veda some of the oldest known books claimed from God... Find out what exactly those books explain about the whole world... If you research and those books claims go inline then it is up to you to believe in God.. If your research and what those books claims contradictory then it is your choice to believe there is no God..
BTW if your research results are universe which is far-fetching coz you can't research universe and if books also says universe which is also never provable within books..then remain in it thinking God created universe and book also claim so..After all we have these Earth and heavens only OR we have a Universe?
Find answer to it then you will know whether God exists or not..
Coz after all God promises He created non other but Earth and heavens only...Such a meaningless claim by God to say I created the Earth and heavens and whatever between them, if universe is reality...thats so manifest it is meaningless verse if one studied according to science what universe is. If universe is true I am ready to discard God... But it is impossible coz Universe doesn't exist..
God and universe never matching... Coz He claimed He created the Earth and heavens with purpose then what is the purpose of Universe..where do we live in universe? He created a universe to keep us on a tiny mote.. Ridiculous purpose .. Is that the purpose of creation.. Such a shame.
Is it Hidden purpose? Why to tell His hidden purpose to us? Nothing is hidden..
Reality is all is visible all what we see is entire earth and heavens nothing is hidden... What is hidden is where we cannot reach.. 5533-35 is clear.. We can't even go to certain part of this very earth and its heavens.. Such a closed chamber... Can anyone logically think of a place on this spherical Earth where we cannot go and if we go flame of fire and smoke will chase us which we cannot overcome? Ridiculous according to ball Earth.. There is no such place on spherical earth.. Is that impossible imagination..
That's worthy research.. If you don't find in ball earth then quran is Lieing...
Unfortunately massive deception almost making it look absolute truth... Such a shame... -
Peace jafar.
Again let me show you why I do not grasp what you say ,because you contradict yourself.Here is what you said in your last post, quote
"Definitely the "parts" are INFINITE."
And here is what you said before that. quote
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"Of course the contrast exist, it's all part of creation, and actually also a FINITE part of the infinite creator."Now you are probably going to say that the infinite creator has parts that are FINITE and others that are INFINITE.
And then I should just "grasp" it.Well, you are right. If according to you, good logic is both FINITE and INFINITE, then he does not exist, because this is an impossibility!!!
GOD bless you brother.
Peace. -
@ Nimnim...
I don't agree with you..
People can think of impossible things and even make it real and make it valid and make it the accepted truth... Which in the end never do exist..Best example.. this Universe as how they claim... Is it true what they say? Can anyone accept it without any single doubt in them? Have they seen it? Or imagination became reality with deception?
Now what is impossible here? Stationary Earth or the Universe which
no one has seen and would never see.. Which one is lie? So one or the other is impossible imagination.. But made it possible..You have't given an example of something impossible. In some other reality where the laws are different, you may well have a stationary earth.
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Definitely the "parts" are infinite..
Our infinite creatorAs advised, you should start from yourselves.
Pondered "Who or What Am I?"In reality, good logic doesn't exist, good logic is merely a manifestation of it's creator on this forum.
There's a consciousness behind good logic who has identified itself to become good logic on this forum.Peace Jafar
This is one hundred the philosophy of Hinduism and other eastern religions. Everything is "Maya" unreal and the reality exists in you.Like them,you are short distance away from worshipping everything and anything you fancy because the divine is in everything and everyone.Ibn Arabi and Sufis must have picked up similar doctrines from eastern religions.
Can you give me some examples from the quran to support your doctrine.The revealed texts are clear that the creator and the creation can never be the same and both are real.if this leads to a duality,,so be it.
RegardsThe consciousness feels happy when somebody praised good logic, The consciousness are 'angry' when somebody insulted good logic. It happened because the consciousness has identify or associate itself with a character that doesn't really exist named good logic.
good logic will die, it can be because
- the consciousness behind it has projected it's focus elsewhere.
- this forum has died.
- murdered by the admin of this forum
- the consciousness behind the consciousness behind good logic projected it's focus elsewhere. We call this phenomenon "physical death".
Once the consciousness behind good logic has shed one (among many) of it's identity, what lies beyond it?
The consciousness behind good logic will also die, it's a certainty, such moment is not the end but it will be a moment of revelation for him. As he has experienced the shedding of good logic and also the shedding of identity behind good logic.
Thus this process of 'dis-association' or 'disbandment' of identities, of the ego, of the "I", will progress further and further.. until there will be no more "I" to shed, no more ego to shed.
Feel free to change good logic to jafar or to any other avatar's name on this forum, as the evolutionary process is pretty much the same.